Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[Footwarrior]

Can you all tell me what are your beliefs as to the truth of what happened that night?

What I am kind of thinking is that Amanda and RS were buying drugs from Rudy, that's why he came to their house, to make the deal for the drugs. While he there, perhaps waiting for his money or perhaps they invited him to stay and smoke/drink with them. Meredith comes home, she has to study and is annoyed that they are partying there with a strange man in their house. Maybe she said something about this to Amanda, expressing her annoyance at what was going on. Maybe she came out and told them to be quiet. Conversation b/w the three (Amanda, RS, and Rudy) as to what a b**** Meredith is, or something along those lines. They decide to go in and bother her. One thing leads to another, Rudy rapes her and maybe in a rage b/c she is fighting and struggling, he stabs her. I'm having a little trouble believing Amanda and RS were the ones to actually stab her b/c of the small DNA evidence of them and large amounts of Rudy's DNA associated with Meredith. But I believe they were "cheering" him on, sick. And then they covered up.

What do you think about what went on that night?

We know the Meredith came home within a few minutes of 9:05 pm. At 9:10 pm, Amanda and Raffaele finished watching the movie Amalie. At 9:26 pm, they started watching an anime short called Naruto.

Computer evidence tells us that Amanda and Reffaele were a half kilometer away from the cottage when Meredith came home. Rudy has however stated that he was there before Meredith arrived.

Autopsy evidence provides a real clue when Meredith died. She had pizza with friends at about 6:30 pm, but none of that meal had passed from her stomach to the duodenum. This rarely takes more than 3 hours, Meredith was almost certainly killed before 9:30. There are other clues that back this up. Meredith tried to call her mother while walking home, but the call never connected to a cell tower. That she didn't try again when she got home indicates she never got a chance.

The scenario that best fits the evidence is that Rudy broke into the cottage, rummaged around a bit and made himself at home. He was sitting on the toilet in the large bathroom when he heard Meredith came home. Rudy tried to sneak out, but ran into Meredith and it all went downhill from there.

Two uncompleted calls at 10 pm are good indications that someone else has Meredith's phones. At 10:13, one of the phones received a message via a different cell tower, indicating that phone was no longer near the cottage. A bit after 10:30 pm, a car breaks down at the entrance to the parking garage directly across the street from the cottage. The two occupants, their two friends in another car and the tow truck driver that hauled away the disabled car all report that the cottage was quiet and dark.

 

[aa9511]

:seeya: Interesting theory ... agree with some and disagree with some ...

But that's okay because NOT 1 of the 3 have told the TRUTH and none of the 3 will ever tell the truth, IMO ... and we may never know the truth !


BBM:

JMO ... IF -- IF it was Rudy who stabbed Meredith, then WHY didn't Knox and Raf tell the investigators that is what happened ?

JMO ... because it was NOT Rudy who initiated "whatever really happened" that night !Yes, Rudy was there ... but Rudy did NOT stage a break-in and he did NOT clean-up the cottage ...

There was not one piece of evidence/DNA that placed Rudy in the "ransacked room -- Filomena's room -- and NOTHING was taken, not even her computer !

Rudy's footprints clearly showed that he left the cottage out of the front door, so obviously he did not "back-track" and clean-up the cottage ...

Raf collected knives and carried knives with him all the time ... he even had a knife on him when he went to the police station to talk to LE ... :waitasec: seriously, who does that ?

:twocents: I have no doubt that the "very clean" knife that was found in Raf's apartment with Meredith's DNA on the blade and Amanda's DNA on the handle, was ONE of the murder weapons ... I think they got rid of the other one ...

:moo:

bbm

Yes, I have been thinking about that, too. I originally thought they didn't say anything b/c then they would have to explain as to why they were there and didn't stop it or report it. But it would have been easy for them to call police after it happened and say, yeah we were smoking weed with this guy name Rudy and he just went crazy and all of this stuff happened. Or even if they waited a couple of hours, they could have said we were scared and didn't know what to do.

But they knew they couldn't do that b/c you're right, there is more involvement from the two of them and they knew if they ratted out Rudy, he would immediately rat them out to get a lesser sentence, of course.

Basically the conclusion I get is that neither side is telling the truth about the details of what went on that night, b/c they are all 3 involved, if one says something, the others can turn around and give their version which would include the suspect's involvement.

Thanks for helping me sort this jumbled mess out in my brain.

 

[aa9511]

We know the Meredith came home within a few minutes of 9:05 pm. At 9:10 pm, Amanda and Raffaele finished watching the movie Amalie. At 9:26 pm, they started watching an anime short called Naruto.

Computer evidence tells us that Amanda and Reffaele were a half kilometer away from the cottage when Meredith came home. Rudy has however stated that he was there before Meredith arrived.

Autopsy evidence provides a real clue when Meredith died. She had pizza with friends at about 6:30 pm, but none of that meal had passed from her stomach to the duodenum. This rarely takes more than 3 hours, Meredith was almost certainly killed before 9:30. There are other clues that back this up. Meredith tried to call her mother while walking home, but the call never connected to a cell tower. That she didn't try again when she got home indicates she never got a chance.

The scenario that best fits the evidence is that Rudy broke into the cottage, rummaged around a bit and made himself at home. He was sitting on the toilet in the large bathroom when he heard Meredith came home. Rudy tried to sneak out, but ran into Meredith and it all went downhill from there.

Two uncompleted calls at 10 pm are good indications that someone else has Meredith's phones. At 10:13, one of the phones received a message via a different cell tower, indicating that phone was no longer near the cottage. A bit after 10:30 pm, a car breaks down at the entrance to the parking garage directly across the street from the cottage. The two occupants, their two friends in another car and the tow truck driver that hauled away the disabled car all report that the cottage was quiet and dark.

But how does that account for the glass from the window being on top of all the mess? As well as the forged robbery in the other room?

 

[otto]

We know the Meredith came home within a few minutes of 9:05 pm. At 9:10 pm, Amanda and Raffaele finished watching the movie Amalie. At 9:26 pm, they started watching an anime short called Naruto.

Computer evidence tells us that Amanda and Reffaele were a half kilometer away from the cottage when Meredith came home. Rudy has however stated that he was there before Meredith arrived.

Autopsy evidence provides a real clue when Meredith died. She had pizza with friends at about 6:30 pm, but none of that meal had passed from her stomach to the duodenum. This rarely takes more than 3 hours, Meredith was almost certainly killed before 9:30. There are other clues that back this up. Meredith tried to call her mother while walking home, but the call never connected to a cell tower. That she didn't try again when she got home indicates she never got a chance.

The scenario that best fits the evidence is that Rudy broke into the cottage, rummaged around a bit and made himself at home. He was sitting on the toilet in the large bathroom when he heard Meredith came home. Rudy tried to sneak out, but ran into Meredith and it all went downhill from there.

Two uncompleted calls at 10 pm are good indications that someone else has Meredith's phones. At 10:13, one of the phones received a message via a different cell tower, indicating that phone was no longer near the cottage. A bit after 10:30 pm, a car breaks down at the entrance to the parking garage directly across the street from the cottage. The two occupants, their two friends in another car and the tow truck driver that hauled away the disabled car all report that the cottage was quiet and dark.

Knox described that she heard Meredith screaming from her bedroom on the night of the murder. She stated that she covered her ears. A neighbor confirmed that she too heard a scream. That would most likely indicate the time of the attack. I don't recall the time, but was it around 10:30?

The call that Meredith's phone received - wasn't that a call from her father, just after midnight? Wasn't that the call that placed the phone at a location away from the cottage, confirming that by midnight, the phones had been thrown away?

Regarding the computer, wasn't there no human activity after 8:30 PM or so? I understood that although the movie ended, no one touched any keys to make it do anything until the following morning. Also, the first activity on the computer was the following morning - music around 6 AM? At that time, Sollecito also turned on his phone. Knox and Sollecito claimed that they slept until 10. They also had plans to take a day trip to a nearby town (Gubbio) that day, but it is obvious that by 6 AM those plans had been discarded.

I'll say it again ...stomach contents are an extremely unreliable method for determining time of death because there are too many influencing factors. More scientific methods could not identify the time of death, other than to provide a window of time. If stomach contents could accurately identify the time of death, we would hear that evidence in every murder trial in the world, but we don't ... for the obvious reason that stomach contents are not a reliable indicator of time of death.

 

[aa9511]

The things that "proves" her guilt for me is the completely different stories she told! If she had maintained that she was in RS house with him, watching movies and having sex, I would have believed that!! How could she be "confused" as to whether she was in her house or not? If she had gone with her original story, I would have believed that Rudy came in to that house, whether his intention was to rape Meredith or just rob the house.

But then after Rafael changes his story to include her in her house, then all of a sudden she becomes "confused" and has these different "dreams" with a Black man and Meredith screaming, and being in the kitchen, and other details which why would she say that if really had nothing to do with anything and was just at RS house and had no knowledge of the murder?

So for example Footwarrior (sorry if I got your "name" wrong, I can't close this window to check it or I will lose this), when you are talking about that they were watching movies at the "time of death" and I guess you believe Rudy was alone in this, then why would Amanda change her story? That makes no sense.

 

[rose222]

This great link was posted a few days ago. I'm posting it again because it is worth reading.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C441/

 

[rose222]

Knox described that she heard Meredith screaming from her bedroom on the night of the murder. She stated that she covered her ears. A neighbor confirmed that she too heard a scream. That would most likely indicate the time of the attack. I don't recall the time, but was it around 10:30?

The call that Meredith's phone received - wasn't that a call from her father, just after midnight? Wasn't that the call that placed the phone at a location away from the cottage, confirming that by midnight, the phones had been thrown away?

Regarding the computer, wasn't there no human activity after 8:30 PM or so? I understood that although the movie ended, no one touched any keys to make it do anything until the following morning. Also, the first activity on the computer was the following morning - music around 6 AM? At that time, Sollecito also turned on his phone. Knox and Sollecito claimed that they slept until 10. They also had plans to take a day trip to a nearby town (Gubbio) that day, but it is obvious that by 6 AM those plans had been discarded.

I'll say it again ...stomach contents are an extremely unreliable method for determining time of death because there are too many influencing factors. More scientific methods could not identify the time of death, other than to provide a window of time. If stomach contents could accurately identify the time of death, we would hear that evidence in every murder trial in the world, but we don't ... for the obvious reason that stomach contents are not a reliable indicator of time of death.

Agreed! Personally I think the TOD is closer to when two separate witnesses believe they heard a terrible scream.

I would think that stress halts the process of digestion. Who knows how long poor Meredith was mentally and physically tortured before she actually passed on? So sad...

 

[rose222]

This article deals with the injuries and time of death. Two important things: One is that there is NO way that a single person murdered Meredith. Also she died much later than 9:30 pm.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...rt_for_knox_and_sollecito_part_2_of_a_summar/

 

[RR0004]

:seeya: TY ... Yes, the "FOA" and "talking heads" have NO clue what they are taking about ... surprise surprise ... lol !

It's real easy to follow the system in Italy -- at least for me it is because Italy has a 3 tier court system similar to the 3 tier court system we have here in Louisiana ...

But Knox, her "fans" and her "handlers" have distorted HOW the Italian Judicial System works -- as well as have distorted HOW the US Judicial Systems works -- all for Knox's benefit ... and their interpretation is totally wrong ...

:twocents:

JMHO...it may be easy to follow the system, but I know too many Italians who believe that it is corrupt. I am not a fan of AK, but do believe she's innocent, regardless of how broken I feel the system is.

 

[aa9511]

This article deals with the injuries and time of death. Two important things: One is that there is NO way that a single person murdered Meredith. Also she died much later than 9:30 pm.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...rt_for_knox_and_sollecito_part_2_of_a_summar/

Wow, there is so much information and analysis and reports available on this case....it is very complicated! It would be great if they had someone like Juan who could tie it all together in an easy-to-understand way like he is so good at!

I was amazed that Amanda and Raffaelo seem to have actually pre-meditated the murder, according to the prosecution! I guess it is so true how the US media has twisted this story around to favor Amanda. If they were waiting for Rudy, it would make complete sense for them to be watching the cottage from the balcony to see when he would get there. And one thing struck me was that there was no communication by phone or text b/w Rudy and Amanda, leaving no trace of their connection. So they couldn't be inside the house or Meredith would see them, they coudn't be hanging around the outside of the house or witnesses might see them, they couldn't call or text Rudy, so obviously they would need some way to see when he got there.

What I have questions about is, if it was indeed pre-meditated on Amanda and Raf's part and they needed Rudy's help, what was Rudy's motivation in all of this? Were Amanda and Raf going to pay him for this? Obviously he would have to have some benefit for him to take such a risk. I'm not sure why he would take such a risk? I know Raf's family has/had money, so perhaps Raf had worked out a plan with him about future payment?

 

[otto]

Wow, there is so much information and analysis and reports available on this case....it is very complicated! It would be great if they had someone like Juan who could tie it all together in an easy-to-understand way like he is so good at!

I was amazed that Amanda and Raffaelo seem to have actually pre-meditated the murder, according to the prosecution! I guess it is so true how the US media has twisted this story around to favor Amanda. If they were waiting for Rudy, it would make complete sense for them to be watching the cottage from the balcony to see when he would get there. And one thing struck me was that there was no communication by phone or text b/w Rudy and Amanda, leaving no trace of their connection. So they couldn't be inside the house or Meredith would see them, they coudn't be hanging around the outside of the house or witnesses might see them, they couldn't call or text Rudy, so obviously they would need some way to see when he got there.

What I have questions about is, if it was indeed pre-meditated on Amanda and Raf's part and they needed Rudy's help, what was Rudy's motivation in all of this? Were Amanda and Raf going to pay him for this? Obviously he would have to have some benefit for him to take such a risk. I'm not sure why he would take such a risk? I know Raf's family has/had money, so perhaps Raf had worked out a plan with him about future payment?

Meredith had withdrawn the rent money for the month of November, but Filomina has asked her to keep it until Filomina was meeting with the land lady. Meredith had the money in her bedroom and it was missing after the murder.

Knox and Sollecito turned off their phones on the night of the murder, something that neither of them had ever done before.

 

[SweetT]

If Amanda and Rafael did do staging and cover up, it is possible they did take a shower at the cottage after the murder and walked around barefooted also. Then they take all the towels out of the place and leave Rudys foot prints so as to cover their tracks but not his. HMM? Yea I really have trouble seeing Rudy covering for them but I can see him being afraid they would gang up on him and his story. But I read else where and correct me if I'm wrong but did he not state he was alone until the media stated that Knox and Steletto might be involved and then he added others to his story? I could swear I had read that some where.

 

[SweetT]

Meredith had withdrawn the rent money for the month of November, but Filomina has asked her to keep it until Filomina was meeting with the land lady. Meredith had the money in her bedroom and it was missing after the murder.

Knox and Sollecito turned off their phones on the night of the murder, something that neither of them had ever done before.

Do we know why Meredith was withdrawing the rent money? Was it because she was not getting along with Amanda and wanted to move out?

 

[Footwarrior]

A detailed examination of Raffaele's computer revealed more activity than the prosecution admitted to. The file for Amalie was manually closed at 9:10 pm, the file for Naruto was started at 9:26 pm. The screen saver log showed the screensaver was active for only short periods during the night, the longest being 6 minutes until 6:22 am the next morning.

 

[Footwarrior]

The evidence for death before 9:30 pm is based on the time takes for food to start to pass from the stomach to the duodenum after a meal. This isn't the same thing as the state of stomach contents after a meal.

 

[SweetT]

A detailed examination of Raffaele's computer revealed more activity than the prosecution admitted to. The file for Amalie was manually closed at 9:10 pm, the file for Naruto was started at 9:26 pm. The screen saver log showed the screensaver was active for only short periods during the night, the longest being 6 minutes until 6:22 am the next morning.

So you believe they were on and off the computer throughout the night until 6 ish when they turned on their cell phones and then went to sleep till 10 am?

 

[Footwarrior]

The clothes on Filomena's floor didn't come from her wardrobe or dresser. Filomena stacked them on the floor because the room didn't have enough closet space. In the crime scene photos, you can see that her wardrobe is still full.

 

[aa9511]

A detailed examination of Raffaele's computer revealed more activity than the prosecution admitted to. The file for Amalie was manually closed at 9:10 pm, the file for Naruto was started at 9:26 pm. The screen saver log showed the screensaver was active for only short periods during the night, the longest being 6 minutes until 6:22 am the next morning.

So are you saying Raffaelo was using the computer but not actually accessing anything? That does not make sense to me. And that would also mean he was using the computer almost continuously all night long, which would mean he did not sleep at all.

If the last actual program was accessed at 9:26 pm, it would still leave plenty of time to be at the scene of the crime at 11 or 11:30.

The thing with their phones being turned off is really strange to me, seeing as they were both obviously constantly using their cell phones as all young people do.

 

[aa9511]

Meredith had withdrawn the rent money for the month of November, but Filomina has asked her to keep it until Filomina was meeting with the land lady. Meredith had the money in her bedroom and it was missing after the murder.

Knox and Sollecito turned off their phones on the night of the murder, something that neither of them had ever done before.

But do you think that would have been enough money for Rudy to do something so terrible for someone else? I would think he would have asked for a few thousand dollars, at least. And if it was me, I would have demanded to get paid before I fled the country, if there was some money deal they made. I don't know, some things make sense but some don't. :scared:

 

[otto]

Do we know why Meredith was withdrawing the rent money? Was it because she was not getting along with Amanda and wanted to move out?

She had the money to pay her November rent. Filomina collected the rent money but wasn't meeting with the land lady until after the weekend ... so she asked Meredith to hang onto the money until then.