Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[aa9511]

Maybe an example will help explain why people are shocked that Knox and Sollecito were happily buying lingerie and publicly talking sex shortly after the murder. Every once in a while, a school aged child dies accidentally. The normal reaction, where I'm from, is for the school to contact grief counsellors and ensure that children have an opportunity to appropriately process the experience and cope with the loss. That service can last a couple weeks, longer if required - where the utmost respect is shown to all that feel a loss. All the children seem to understand that, even if they did not know the deceased child well, it is inappropriate to fool around and disrespect the people that are feeling sad about the loss.

What Knox and Sollecito did, in the eyes of many, was to fool around and disrespect the people that really did care about Meredith. They did this very publicly at a time when they should have known that a more sober attitude was necessary.

yesss.....and I have heard so many replays of Amanda's sister saying yes, she's "quirky" but she is not a murderer. Quirky is their explanation for it. Don't they know that most murderers are "quirky"?? All of the murderers in the cases I've followed have some quirk or two or three.

 

[aa9511]

IMO, "eyebrows lifting" would be done regardless of their actions, inactions, smirks, laughs, tears, thongs, tighty whitys, etc. It's just what people do when they are looking to support their "gut instinct" on which they rely. We all apply our own emotions to others and then compare and contrast to deem what is normal. It's an inherent but primal part of us.

Hmm.....so are you saying they would have been looked into regardless because of the evidence found in the apartment, like you know, that whole thing about the staging of the scene and cover-up and all that? So that kind of takes the wind out of the sail that this is all a big witch-hunt b/c we didn't like the emotions they were displaying.

 

[aa9511]

When you consider the brutality of the murder and just how devastated Meredith's friends were and then contrast this with Knox's reactions it's really beyond cruel. Being unable to cry or talk after a tragedy is one thing. Some people stay in shock when a tragedy occurs. I get that.

On the other hand, laughing, having or at least talking about sex on the day of the memorial etc. is indicative of guilt. Scott Peterson ordered p$rn after Laci went missing. He was talking to Amber during the vigil for Laci. Casey was having sex with Tony and buying lingerie in the weeks following the death of Caylee. Why is it that most of us agreed that those were signs of guilt but when it comes to Knox this bizarre behaviour is excused away? If she had done this to an American girl she'd be as hated as Casey and Jodi.

bbm

Good point!! Thank you!! Yes, how come it is ok in every other case to use that information?? And by the way, "state of mind" can be legally brought into the courtroom, as we have seen from watching these trials. They always go into how the defendant was acting around the time of the murder. Especially when it comes to lying about your whereabouts and activites during the time the murder occurred!!

 

[aa9511]

BBM.

You're over looking an important difference - Drew Peterson was married to the victim, Casey Anthony was the victim's mother, but Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher had only known each other a few weeks. I would expect a difference in the level of grief shown by a husband/parent, and two room mates who were unrelated and had known each other a short time.

Yes, but it also has to do with the whole situation. She wasn't that close, yes, but the stabbing still occured IN THE SAME HOUSE, feet from where her own bedroom was. She also obviously caught on to the gravity of the situation with her remark of "she f***ing bled to death."
And like another poster said, if everyone around you is mourning and somber (such as Meredith's friends), wouldn't it be logical that when you are around them, you would also be somber? Even if you don't really feel it that much. Like going to a stranger's funeral...you might not really feel that much, but you still get sad. It's just natural.

 

[aa9511]

Snipped. Thanks. It is not so easy to clean bloody feet. They dry quickly and it is very difficult to scrub off all the blood. Just look at the bathmat print. Why is it always suggested that blood must leave streaks but 'fruit pulp' doesn't? I never understood that one. I don't agree that you must leave streaks. I think it is possible to clean a footprint completely. There are footprints missing after all. These discussions about the exact order in which they left the bloody footprints, or the grout, or the ruler, or the police boots are simply distractions from what really matters here which is that there were bloody footprints in the first place. You can't explain these with some 'fruit pulp'. They never claimed to have put any such substance on their feet. There is blood all over the place. Nothing else makes any sense. JMO.

bbm

This is a very good point. It would be natural to question a brightly lit, very obvious footprint, if the testing was done in a home where a murder had not just occurred. For example, if they just went to random Joe's house and did a Luminol testing, and whoa there is brightly lit footprint....oh geez, yeah I guess that came from bleach or beet juice or grapefruit juice or pulp joice....yes, it must have come from one of those because nobody was bleeding in our home, sir. No sir, no one was stabbed 43 times to death in our home.
It seems odd to question obvious shapes of footprints which come up positive in a Luminol test, in a home where a murder had just occurred with lots of blood.

 

[Harmony 2]

The quote you have selected was taken from the University specialist's report that was completed during the first appeal. The problem is that the appeal, and all conclusions related to the appeal, have been annulled.

Of significance in that report was the decision to not test the DNA that was found on the knife. That was considered to be a significant error and, as a result, this second appeal has made that a priority.

The appeal may have been annulled but that does not mean that their results are wrong, incorrect or that they created and manufactured alleles. In fact this scientific journal, PNAS, sites their work in this article:

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/06/28/1219739110.full.pdf

The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, usually referred to as PNAS, is the official journal of the United States National Academy of Sciences (NAS). PNAS is an important scientific journal that printed its first issue in 1915 and continues to publish highly cited research reports, commentaries, reviews, perspectives, feature articles, profiles, letters to the editor, and actions of the Academy. Coverage in PNAS broadly spans the biological, physical, and social sciences. Although many of the papers published in the journal are in the biomedical sciences, PNAS recruits papers and publishes special features in the physical and social sciences and in mathematics.

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[otto]

The appeal may have been annulled but that does not mean that their results are wrong, incorrect or that they created and manufactured alleles. In fact this scientific journal, PNAS, sites their work in this article:

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/06/28/1219739110.full.pdf



Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks. I had never seen that article before. I skimmed it, but I'm not sure that I understood it correctly as I have never studied anything related to DNA. Is the conclusion that an additional test on the evidence is not only unnecessary, but that a second test may reduce the accuracy of the result?

Also, what do you make of the portion I highlighted?



http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/06/28/1219739110.full.pdf

 

[rose222]

Yes, but it also has to do with the whole situation. She wasn't that close, yes, but the stabbing still occured IN THE SAME HOUSE, feet from where her own bedroom was. She also obviously caught on to the gravity of the situation with her remark of "she f***ing bled to death."
And like another poster said, if everyone around you is mourning and somber (such as Meredith's friends), wouldn't it be logical that when you are around them, you would also be somber? Even if you don't really feel it that much. Like going to a stranger's funeral...you might not really feel that much, but you still get sad. It's just natural.

Thank you. This is what I meant. Same house and horrific murder of your roommate should = some appropriate level of grief. At least some respect.

And Amanda herself was quick to point out that Meredith was her friend. In fact, she continues with that line even today. Of course she's just saying it to deny her involvement in the murder. With friends like her who needs enemies?!

 

[seattlechiquita]

Yes, but it also has to do with the whole situation. She wasn't that close, yes, but the stabbing still occured IN THE SAME HOUSE, feet from where her own bedroom was. She also obviously caught on to the gravity of the situation with her remark of "she f***ing bled to death."
And like another poster said, if everyone around you is mourning and somber (such as Meredith's friends), wouldn't it be logical that when you are around them, you would also be somber? Even if you don't really feel it that much. Like going to a stranger's funeral...you might not really feel that much, but you still get sad. It's just natural.

Or if not sad, at least keep some sense of freaking decorum. Someone was murdered, and this girl showed no respect for her or for her loved ones.

 

[otto]

Or if not sad, at least keep some sense of freaking decorum. Someone was murdered, and this girl showed no respect for her or for her loved ones.

Imagine if the pretty American girl was out renting scary videos with her boyfriend while her daughter lay dead of poisoning in her car. Imagine if the pretty American girl was out buying sexy lingerie, canoodling and talking sex with her boyfriend while her room mate lay dead in the morgue. Imagine if the pretty American girl pointed at the black man ... Susan Smith anyone?

Imagine if Knox and Sollecito, by their own admission, were drunk and stoned out of their heads on the Day of the Dead. Imagine if Knox, when she admitted that she was there but was in the kitchen plugging her ears with her fingers, would actually explain why she lied to police more than once during a murder investigation, why she didn't flush the toilet when she saw the turd, and why she phoned her mother before anything had happened - as the cottage was in the same condition as when she showered. ... two hours earlier. Nothing had changed in that time ...window was still broken, blood was still on the bath mat, turd was still in the toilet, Knox had still gone out for Breakfast before being concerned ... so why did she phone her mom before anything had happened?

 

[rose222]

Imagine if the pretty American girl was out renting scary videos with her boyfriend while her daughter lay dead of poisoning in her car. Imagine if the pretty American girl was out buying sexy lingerie, canoodling and talking sex with her boyfriend while her room mate lay dead in the morgue. Imagine if the pretty American girl pointed at the black man ... Susan Smith anyone?

Imagine if Knox and Sollecito, by their own admission, were drunk and stoned out of their heads on the Day of the Dead. Imagine if Knox, when she admitted that she was there but was in the kitchen plugging her ears with her fingers, would actually explain why she lied to police more than once during a murder investigation, why she didn't flush the toilet when she saw the turd, and why she phoned her mother before anything had happened - as the cottage was in the same condition as when she showered. ... two hours earlier. Nothing had changed in that time ...window was still broken, blood was still on the bath mat, turd was still in the toilet, Knox had still gone out for Breakfast before being concerned ... so why did she phone her mom before anything had happened?

There is more evidence linking Amanda to the murder of Meredith than there was linking Casey to the killing of Caylee Anthony.

 

[otto]

If I recall correctly, Knox referenced CSI expectations. After she implicated Patrick, was she ever released again ... prior the annulled decision?

I think that she expected to be released from questioning after mentioning Patrick and a mere few hours before her mother arrived in Perugia. Her mother was too late. When she arrived to whisk her daughter out of the country (Germany), Knox had been detained.

Then there's the police recorded conversation between Knox and her mother in prison, where Knox told her mother that she knew perfectly well that it was wrong to accuse Patrick because she knew that he was innocent. one would expect that this information would be rushed, urgent, to the prosecutor. That didn't happen. When it didn't happen, the prosecutor asked mom why she didn't immediately reveal the situation. Her answer was that she did not tell the world that her daughter had implicated an innocent man and knew better but still wouldn't say anything because ... well ...mom didn't speak Italian, so she didn't know who to tell, so she told no one ... and she also didn't remember anything special that Knox had to say during her late night phone call.

Does anyone have a link to what Knox's mother (Mellas) had to say about that forgotten phone call? Did Knox mention the broken window or just the turd?

Two weeks later, the prosecution discovered, on its own, that Patrick had a rock solid alibi. Patrick was released from prison under those circumstances: the prosecution overheard the conversation between mom and Knox, they didn't want to blow their cover, but they had to investigate the possibility that the witness (Knox) had ulterior motives. Patrick was released.

Knox has had ample time to repay the 22,000 debt to Patrick from her 3.8 million dollar book deal. What's her excuse again ... she repaid the debt to her parents. Sollecito said that his father paid a million. Let's suppose that Knox paid a million to each of her parents. Let's give another million to the lawyers. That means that Sollecito's lawyers cost one million and Knox's defense cost three million ... for the PR firm, the free media paid trips, and the silent auctions? She still had 0.8 million dollars left. That's eight hundred thousand dollars that she still has, and still she couldn't reimburse 22,000 euros ... out of 800,000?

And Patrick?
Apparently he is a distant memory for Knox.

It was a significant error for Knox to not pay her debt to Patrick. Because she had not paid her debt, he was allowed to appear at her appeal and ask to be heard. It was decided that his request for damages and motive for lying would be heard/revisited. Legally speaking, that was a really stupid thing for Knox to do. It would have been better for her to pay Patrick and eliminate his evidence from the appeal.

Funny how Knox left Patrick to rot in jail for two weeks, and then she left him out to dry when she destroyed his life.

Now that the world is aware, it is waiting for Knox to at least repay the 22,000 euros out of the 3.8 million that she had?

 

[otto]

The conclusion was that the American woman falsely implicated the black man (like Susan Smith) during a murder investigation. Then, she and her mother remained silent about this known fact. When it was discovered by the prosecutor through wiretaps that Knox had falsely implicated an innocent man, she protested too much that she was forced to implicate him. Was it 5 hours of questioning, dragging the prosecutor out of bed, most of which was in Italian and without a translator(not entered into evidence during the trial, or was it 28 hours of continuous interrogation without food, water, or toilet breaks?

There was already an admitted history of lies between Knox, Sollecito and the prosecutor's office. Sollectio admitted that he was lying about Knox being home on the night of the murder and then Knox claimed/admitted that she was on drugs and didn't really remember anything.

In any case, Patrick was eventually release from prison. Then he lost his business and livelihood in Italy, so he moved away with his wife and family.

 

[claudicici]

Does anyone have a link to what Knox's mother (Mellas) had to say about that forgotten phone call? Did Knox mention the broken window or just the turd?.

All I can find is the recorded jailhouse conversation:

Edda (surprised): But you called me three times.
Amanda: Oh, I don’t remember that.
Edda: Okay, you called me first to tell me about some things that had shocked you. But this happened before anything really happened in the house.
Amanda: I know I was making calls. I remember calling Filomena, but I really don’t remember calling anyone else. I just don’t remember having called you.
Edda: Why would that be? Stress, you think?
Amanda: Maybe because so many things were happening at once.
Edda: Okay, right.

I feel as if Amanda would have mentioned the broken window the mother would not have said "before anything really happened".A broken window is proof of that something happened and it would have been a reason to call her mom in the middle of the night.The open door,some specs of blood and an unflushed toilet.I believe those were the "shocking"things Amanda called her mother about.
Too bad,she can't tell us since she forgot the entire phone call.

 

[rose222]

If I recall correctly, Knox referenced CSI expectations. After she implicated Patrick, was she ever released again ... prior the annulled decision?

I think that she expected to be released from questioning after mentioning Patrick and a mere few hours before her mother arrived in Perugia. Her mother was too late. When she arrived to whisk her daughter out of the country (Germany), Knox had been detained.

Then there's the police recorded conversation between Knox and her mother in prison, where Knox told her mother that she knew perfectly well that it was wrong to accuse Patrick because she knew that he was innocent. one would expect that this information would be rushed, urgent, to the prosecutor. That didn't happen. When it didn't happen, the prosecutor asked mom why she didn't immediately reveal the situation. Her answer was that she did not tell the world that her daughter had implicated an innocent man and knew better but still wouldn't say anything because ... well ...mom didn't speak Italian, so she didn't know who to tell, so she told no one ... and she also didn't remember anything special that Knox had to say during her late night phone call.

Does anyone have a link to what Knox's mother (Mellas) had to say about that forgotten phone call? Did Knox mention the broken window or just the turd?

Two weeks later, the prosecution discovered, on its own, that Patrick had a rock solid alibi. Patrick was released from prison under those circumstances: the prosecution overheard the conversation between mom and Knox, they didn't want to blow their cover, but they had to investigate the possibility that the witness (Knox) had ulterior motives. Patrick was released.

Knox has had ample time to repay the 22,000 debt to Patrick from her 3.8 million dollar book deal. What's her excuse again ... she repaid the debt to her parents. Sollecito said that his father paid a million. Let's suppose that Knox paid a million to each of her parents. Let's give another million to the lawyers. That means that Sollecito's lawyers cost one million and Knox's defense cost three million ... for the PR firm, the free media paid trips, and the silent auctions? She still had 0.8 million dollars left. That's eight hundred thousand dollars that she still has, and still she couldn't reimburse 22,000 euros ... out of 800,000?

And Patrick?
Apparently he is a distant memory for Knox.

It was a significant error for Knox to not pay her debt to Patrick. Because she had not paid her debt, he was allowed to appear at her appeal and ask to be heard. It was decided that his request for damages and motive for lying would be heard/revisited. Legally speaking, that was a really stupid thing for Knox to do. It would have been better for her to pay Patrick and eliminate his evidence from the appeal.

The woman is morally bankrupt.

 

[sherlockh]

I can imagine you call your mother in the middle of the night when you find a broken window in your house and you realize the blood you saw earlier might be part of something bigger. It gets a bit strange that after you shared your worries with your mother, you then tell the police that the locked door of Meredith is nothing to worry about. It gets even stranger that a few weeks later that phonecall to your mother has been erased from your memory, and you mother reacts very surprised that you called before 'anything' had happened.

However, the weirdest part is that the postal police arrived at around 12:30 and the phonecall to mom was made at 12:47. She never mentioned that the police was already there. Then her bf starts calling the Italian emergency number at 12:51 and 12:54 with the postal police in their house. Weird!

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index..._testify_those_devils_that_lurk_in_the_detai/ (including summary of Edda Mellas testimony)
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c..._Made_after_the_Police_Had_Already_Arrived.3F
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_112_Calls

As far as the original Edda Mellas testimony goes. This has not been fully translated yet apparently.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Edda_Mellas's_Testimony

 

[sherlockh]

All I can find is the recorded jailhouse conversation:

Edda (surprised): But you called me three times.
Amanda: Oh, I don’t remember that.
Edda: Okay, you called me first to tell me about some things that had shocked you. But this happened before anything really happened in the house.
Amanda: I know I was making calls. I remember calling Filomena, but I really don’t remember calling anyone else. I just don’t remember having called you.
Edda: Why would that be? Stress, you think?
Amanda: Maybe because so many things were happening at once.
Edda: Okay, right.

I feel as if Amanda would have mentioned the broken window the mother would not have said "before anything really happened".A broken window is proof of that something happened and it would have been a reason to call her mom in the middle of the night.The open door,some specs of blood and an unflushed toilet.I believe those were the "shocking"things Amanda called her mother about.
Too bad,she can't tell us since she forgot the entire phone call.

And Edda had forgotten this conversation with Amanda!

When asked for clarification about the "yes, but this happened before" part she answers: "I do not remember this part of the conversation, as well as phone calls, because it was not what I was worried at that time , I was worried especially about how she felt like she was my daughter."
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Edda_Mellas's_Testimony (used google translate)

 

[rose222]

Blood, open doors etc. They are red flags.

Makes a lot of sense to call the mother (who can do nothing from the US) before making sure that all the members of that house are okay? Only in a guilty person's world! In other words, only in Knox's world!

 

[rose222]

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...t_at_making_amanda_knoxs_timeline_alibi_work/

<modsnip>

 

[aa9511]

Thank you. This is what I meant. Same house and horrific murder of your roommate should = some appropriate level of grief. At least some respect.

And Amanda herself was quick to point out that Meredith was her friend. In fact, she continues with that line even today. Of course she's just saying it to deny her involvement in the murder. With friends like her who needs enemies?!

bbm

Ain't that the truth, Rose!

I've seen her recent interviews....she states in every one that she considered Meredith her "friend." Now, as you say, why does she feel the need to emphasize that point? It's just like with Jodi Arias, in that first jailhouse interview she did, she said so many times that Travis was her friend and Travis was such a good guy, etc.. And she even admitted later that she said that b/c his family and friends were painting her one way and she needed to "get her side" out. Of course come to find out it's indeed all a pack of lies.