Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[Chris_Halkides]

Int J Legal Med. 2012 Nov;126(6):851-61. doi: 10.1007/s00414-012-0743-1. Epub 2012 Jul 15.
An evaluation of the transfer of saliva-derived DNA.
Warshauer DH, Marshall P, Kelley S, King J, Budowle B.
Before one rules out tertiary transfer, one might wish to peruse this paper. And as I keep having to say, secondary transfer and contamination are alternate possibilities, and contamination in the low template region is a more serious concern that in the standard region, particularly with a lab as demonstrably incompetent as the Rome lab. As for the unliklyhood of contamination, consider the statement from this link: “[Q]uite often my (colleague) would walk down the aisle and say, ‘I’ve just committed another rape on the Gold Coast.’”[62]

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The CCTV clock was checked by a tech guy and was 10 minutes fast. He checked it with the real time on the internet. This is not complicated. Further more, we have the testimony of 2 postal police officers that said they arrived around 12:30. Two more guys that arrived shortly after that, and 2 more that claimed to have arrived just before 13:00 and actually saw Sollecito and Knox coming out of Knox's bedroom right after they finished making these calls.

Even Massei does not claim that the postals arrived before the call to the carabinieri, so absurd is this claim. Bringing up the supposed granular nature of the CCTV footage is a canard.<modsnip>

 

[Harmony 2]

Please be respectful of your fellow posters and their opinions. It is required by our TOS. Please do not cross the line from debating the case into personalizing posts.

To reiterate, please address the content of the posts and refrain from getting personal. Thanks...

 

[sherlockh]

Even Massei does not claim that the postals arrived before the call to the carabinieri, so absurd is this claim. Bringing up the supposed granular nature of the CCTV footage is a canard.<modsnip>

The CCTV images never showed them going to the cottage. It only shows the road in front of the entrance gate. There is proof that they were searching for the address as they had to call for directions. The images show just that. They were searching for the address. If they had just been given directions then they wouldn't be hovering in front of the driveway for a minute. It takes 3 seconds to enter the driveway.

Massei never mentions the CCTV footage. He didn't consider the evidence because he said the postal police would have seen them making the phone calls. Massei forgets there is a witness who saw them coming out of the bedroom. I don't know which part you think is absurd. A tech guy looking at an atomic clock on the internet and states that the CCTV is 10 minutes fast? There is nothing complicated about that. Six witnesses all claimed to have arrived before 1pm?

Maybe Sollecito preferred the Caribinieri because his sister worked there, but it sure is peculiar to call the police when the police is already there!

 

[otto]

I was reading a blog, which I understand I can link but cannot quote. I'm going to summarize the point that interests me, in my own words, and add the link. It's well worth reading to the end.

Apparently Vecchiotti testified in court that the DNA on the blade of the knife showed a complete profile of Meredith (see DNA charts posted upthread). She also stated that laboratory precautions ruled out contamination. What is interesting, is that Conti and Vecchiotti did not rule out contamination in their report, but they were also unable to explain any scenario where contamination could have occurred, essentially ruling out the realistic possibility that there was contamination. All the references are listed at the bottom of the article.

Also of interest is the reminder that the court has ruled that Guede did not commit the murder alone. If he didn't do it alone, where is the evidence of the others ... if it is not Knox and Sollecito?

http://www.tekjournalismuk.com/45/p...x-trial-understanding-knife-dna-evidence.html

 

[dog.gone.cute]

No, the postal police arrived around 12:30 and Sollecito called the emergency number just before 13:00. This has been discussed many times. There are about 6 witnesses who all indicated that they arrived before 13:00, and one of them saw Knox and Sollecito coming out Knox's bedroom just before 13:00, right after they finished making these calls.

BBM: Exactly !

And that is why Knox and Raf had that "deer in the headlights" look :scared: on their faces when the Postal Police arrived because they had NOT called the Emergency # ...

Surprise Surprise ... they did NOT expect Meredith's 2 cell phones to be found so quickly, or to be found at all ...

:doh: I bet they regret NOT turning off the ringer on those 2 cell phones ...

:twocents:

 

[SMK]

Yes I know.... remember way back when I was a big supporter of AK...

but it bugs me how a person could feel safe with someone they only recent met, cannot fluently converse with and who's fantasies as so akin to the bloody gory horror that just took place in a bedroom just so many feet from yours.

So Steve, are you now leaning towards her being guilty? Just wondering, as I do recall when you were a huge supporter of her and Raffaele. If so, what changed your mind? I have more questions now, also, than I used to. ETA: Not that I think she is guilty, just that I am more open to seeing both sides now.

 

[Nova]

Plastic (polypropylene) tubes were used in at least one experiment, an experiment that showed that the person who last touched an object did not necessarily leave the most DNA. My experience of working with plastic tubes such as these are smooth. I don't have a citation handy, but I would be happy to look it up if someone were interested. DNA actually transfers pretty easily.

Thanks, Chris. I can take your word for it.

 

[Nova]

Just saying that something can happen isn't the same as that it is the most probable thing to happen. It is the same with the coerced confessions thing. It has happened in the past but it is a very rare event. Contamination is very rare, and as you showed tertiary DNA transfer never really happens. Not a single published study on it. And now we are supposed to believe that a whole series of these unlikely events happened just because for some reason people really want Knox to be innocent? Combining one rare event with another makes it only more improbable my math teacher once taught me.

Coerced and false testimony is not at all rare.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/False-Confessions.php

 

[Nova]

"As I've told you time and again", we can all claim to have years of experience teaching students of whatever age, but I disagree 100% that writing a short story about the drugging and raping of a young woman/girl is common and benign, particularly when the author is accused of a similar crime shortly thereafter. In fact, if I were to generalize about the pre-occupations of people in the 18-22 age group, I would suggest that saving the world and getting filthy rich are two of the more common themes that I've observed. A pre-occupation with drugs and rape in that age group is not common and not healthy.

We should also make some effort to keep the facts straight. Some of Meredith's friends returned to England after providing truthful, factual statements to police; statements that did not fall apart under scrutiny. There in no reason to imply that they went to England without answering questions from investigators, as that did not happen. Knox, on the other hand, was unable to provide a truthful statement to police at any time between the murder and her arrest.

"Anyone can claim to teach playwriting"? Yeah, because it's such a lucrative and prestigious profession in our culture.

If I were going to lie about my area of expertise, wouldn't I claim to to be a forensic specialist or at least an expert in Italian law? Come on.

***

The point remains that AK stayed behind and continued to answer questions. The false implication of Lumumba didn't come for 5 days. The British roommates couldn't be bothered and instead hightailed it back to England. I guess they don't have souls either.

 

[Nova]

Yes I know.... remember way back when I was a big supporter of AK...

but it bugs me how a person could feel safe with someone they only recent met, cannot fluently converse with and who's fantasies as so akin to the bloody gory horror that just took place in a bedroom just so many feet from yours.

AK knew RS wasn't the murderer. The two were together when MK was killed.

Do we know when and if she learned of RS' alleged proclivities (which personally I chalk up to youthful curiosity)?

 

[sherlockh]

Coerced and false testimony is not at all rare.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/False-Confessions.php

That site only shows a percentage of DNA exoneration cases. That is not what we are looking for.

What Do We Know About Interrogation in the United States? reports that “using national estimates of interrogations, arrests, convictions, and error rates, researchers have arrived at estimates of wrongful convictions resulting from false confessions that range from a low of 10 (.001% of all convictions) to a high of 840 (.04% of all convictions) per year.”

“Some research suggests that false confessions are extremely rare.…In other words, while some critics of police interrogation practices suggest that convictions based on false confessions are common phenomena, research would suggest that 99.6% of convictions involving confessions are true and correct.”

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...=display_arch&article_id=1925&issue_id=102009

Ranging from 0.001% to 0.04% I consider rare. Then include factors such as Knox's age, intelligence, the length of the questioning and this number will only be lower. You can't state that a false confession is the most probable with such low numbers. Same for contamination cases. Then start combining these rare events. It is simply not realistic to explain away all the evidence with these rare phenomena.

 

[otto]

"Anyone can claim to teach playwriting"? Yeah, because it's such a lucrative and prestigious profession in our culture.

If I were going to lie about my area of expertise, wouldn't I claim to to be a forensic specialist or at least an expert in Italian law? Come on.

***

The point remains that AK stayed behind and continued to answer questions. The false implication of Lumumba didn't come for 5 days. The British roommates couldn't be bothered and instead hightailed it back to England. I guess they don't have souls either.

BBM

Could you please provide a link to support this claim. As far as I know, it is not true.

Some of Meredith's friends answered police questions, organized and attended a memorial, concluded their business at the University and then returned to England. Meredith's friends also testified during the trial, so we know that they had sufficient contact with police to provide all the information required.

Regarding the phrase in quotations, I believe my comment was: "we can all claim to have years of experience teaching students of whatever age"

 

[song22]

AK knew RS wasn't the murderer. The two were together when MK was killed.

Do we know when and if she learned of RS' alleged proclivities (which personally I chalk up to youthful curiosity)?

Uh oh! Im relatively new but didnt RS later say he had lied and he was not with AK? Am I mixed up? Help! Is there a link to RS's proclivities somewhere? TIA!

 

[Harmony 2]

Due to all the negative media about Amanda I was interested to hear and read what some friends, who have known her for a long time, had to say about her... These are some of the interviews:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3999320&page=1

http://www.today.com/video/today/34311007#34311007

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5013544-504083.html

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/02/05/amanda-knox-her-american-ex-boyfriend-speaks-out/

 

[otto]

Uh oh! Im relatively new but didnt RS later say he had lied and he was not with AK? Am I mixed up? Help! Is there a link to RS's proclivities somewhere? TIA!

07 Nov 2007

"[Raffaele Sollecito] said: "I have known Amanda for two weeks. From the night that I met her she started sleeping at my house.

... "[On November 1] At 9 pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner."

He goes on to say that Amanda returned to his house at around 1am and the couple went to bed, although he couldn't remember if they had sex.

He said she got up the next morning and went home for a shower at around 10.30am.

... "In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568640/Suspect-statements-in-Kercher-murder-case.html

 

[sherlockh]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568640/Suspect-statements-in-Kercher-murder-case.html

Thanks for the link. He also admits that he called 121 after the arrival of the postal police.

She told me to call 121 (the Italian emergency number) but in the meantime the postal police arrived.

 

[otto]

Thanks for the link. He also admits that he called 121 after the arrival of the postal police.

"She told me to call 121 (the Italian emergency number) but in the meantime the postal police arrived."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568640/Suspect-statements-in-Kercher-murder-case.html

I guess that clears that up. It's hard for anyone to argue that Knox and Sollecito called police before the arrival of the postal police when the person that made the call claimed otherwise on November 6, 2007.

 

[otto]

This statement from Sollecito is also interesting:

"She opened the door with her keys and I went in. I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open and there was broken glass on the floor and the room was in a mess. Amanda's door was open but it was tidy. Then I went towards Meredith's door and saw that it was locked. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568640/Suspect-statements-in-Kercher-murder-case.html

He says that Filomina's bedroom door was wide open, meaning that Knox would have seen the broken window when she went to Filomina/Laura's bathroom, and then she went for lunch. He also claims that he "saw" that Meredith's door was locked. That would be impossible to see.

 

[OldSteve]

So Steve, are you now leaning towards her being guilty? Just wondering, as I do recall when you were a huge supporter of her and Raffaele. If so, what changed your mind? I have more questions now, also, than I used to. ETA: Not that I think she is guilty, just that I am more open to seeing both sides now.

BBM - yes, I am as well.
Do I think AK/RS guilty? - I am not sure.
Do I think AK/RS innocent - I am less sure.

After the Sandy Hook School killings - I'm not so dismissive of those who fantasize about evil things and killings...

As for how soon did AK learn of RS's interest in knives - well, considering he had a rather menacing one hanging over his bed, I cannot imagine the topic not coming up as she was looking up at the ceiling sometime while they were in bed together.

I wonder about the "love" between AK/RS ... did a personality change take place on her part? To that end, while it's nice to read the glowing reports of past friends, my interest is in hearing what friends (did she have any) whom she was actively involved with at the time of the murder had to say.