Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[Allusonz]

All the times are in the Massei report and I recall discussing the times when you were posting months ago. Regarding the changing times for dinner, one of the explanation that was suggested was that they ate dinner three times on the night of the murder. Knox and Sollecito have never made that claim to explain the shifting dinner hour.

There is no misinformation regarding the various times provided for dinner and the false times given for when they woke up.

As we all know, the times in his motivation report, don't jive with other times. So let us start with the telephone times.

If one recalls, there are a number of masts in the vacinity and PLE only supplied the cell records for one of them, when in fact one call in particular pinged off of a mast it never had previously.

Here are the cell phone records. For the correct ones, please refer to the Appeal of RS.

Calls from November 1 after 18:00

Time Length Type From To Location (Content Summary)

20:18:12 1sec SMS Patrick Amanda via Ulisse Rocchi (You don't have to come to work tonight)
20:35:48 1sec SMS Amanda Patrick corso Garibaldi ("Ci vediamo piu tardi. Buona serata.")
20:42:58 221sec Call Dr Soll Raffaele corso Garibaldi (Raffaele mentions washing dishes, leak under sink, trip to Gubbio)
20:56:?? 1sec Call MeredithUK Arline via della Pergola (Call didn't go through)
21:58:?? 1sec Call MeredithUK ans. serv. via della Pergola (Call didn't go through)
22:00:00 1sec Call MeredithUK Abbey via della Pergola ("Abbey" dialed without international prefix, didn't go through)
22:13:19 9sec GPRS Internet WAP MeredithUK via della Pergola (Aborted connection of undetermined type)


Calls from November 2

Time Length Type From To Location (Content summary)

00:10:31 1sec Call ? Meredith UK via Sperandio

06:02:69 1sec SMS Dr Soll Raffaele corso Garibaldi (Buona notte, SMS sent by Dr Soll at 23:14 on Nov 1)
09:24 248sec Call Dr Soll Raffaele (Absent from mobile records, no cell tower mentioned)
09:29 38sec Call Dr Soll Raffaele (Absent from mobile records, no cell tower mentioned)
09:30:42 41sec Call Dr Soll Raffaele corso Garibaldi (Haven't you left for Gubbio yet?)
12:07:12 16sec Call Amanda MeredithUK corso Garibaldi (Ringing no answer)
12:08:44 58sec Call Amanda Filomena corso Garibaldi (Saw worrisome things in the house, door open, traces of blood)
12:11:02 3sec Call Amanda MeredithIT corso Garibaldi (Voice mail)
12:11:54 4sec Call Amanda MeredithUK corso Garibaldi ( Automatic voice saying "out of service")
12:12:35 36sec Call Filomena Amanda corso Garibaldi (Unsuccessful?)
12:20:44 65sec Call Filomena Amanda corso Garibaldi (Unsuccessful?)
12:34:56 48sec Call Filomena Amanda via della Pergola (Broken window, room ransacked...)
12:35:08 135sec Call Raffaele Vodafone via della Pergola (credit recharge)
12:38:17 1sec SMS Vodafone Raffaele via della Pergola (confirm recharge)
12:40:03 67sec Call Dr Soll Raffaele via della Pergola
12:47:23 88sec Call Amanda Edda via della Pergola (There are some strange things here)
12:50:34 39sec Call Raffaele Vanessa via della Pergola (Call to Vanessa for advice)
12:51:40 169sec Call Raffaele 112 via della Pergola (first 112 call)
12:54:39 57sec Call Raffaele 112 via della Pergola (second 112 call)
13:24:18 162sec Call Amanda Edda via della Pergola ("A foot")
13:27:32 26sec Call Amanda Chris? via della Pergola (Another Seattle number)
13:29:00 296sec Call Carabinieri Amanda via della Pergola (Asking for directions to cottage)

 

[otto]

Neither of them said they had consumed alcohol.

Why Your Memories Can't Be Trusted

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tedtalks/mystery-of-memory_b_4159290.html

You can trust your own memory -- right? Wrong. Psychologist Elizabeth Loftus shares decades of research showing that when it comes to remembering things, what we swear is fact is often fiction... and sometimes, the consequences of trusting our own memories are life and death.

"However, just days later, this damning account also was retracted. Now that he had had time to mull things over, Raffaele said, he couldn’t remember much at all about the night Meredith was killed—not whether Amanda was with him at home the entire evening or whether she actually went out.

“Because there was so much grass, so much alcohol, he just couldn’t remember,” Raffaele’s lawyer offers helpfully. Only hashish and marijuana, he adds."

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/06/perugia200806

 

[Allusonz]

I as well believe that many have refused to acknowledge the testimony of the gentleman whose vehicle broke down, right outside of the cottage, in which him, his wife, and young baby were there for some time.

They did not hear any screams nor did they see anyone, while awaiting the tow truck to arrive which was over 30 minutes later.

There is also the testimony of the young couple that had been out to dinner. I will have to look back to find the names as they are slipping my memory at the moment.

What I do know is that there were no screams during the entire time they were broken down in front of the cottage.

ETA This can be found in the transcripts of the trial of the first instance.

 

[otto]

As we all know, the times in his motivation report, don't jive with other times. So let us start with the telephone times.

If one recalls, there are a number of masts in the vacinity and PLE only supplied the cell records for one of them, when in fact one call in particular pinged off of a mast it never had previously.

Here are the cell phone records. For the correct ones, please refer to the Appeal of RS.

<phone records snipped>

The phone records are in the Massei report. I'm not sure what point is being made by posting the phone records?

 

[otto]

I as well believe that many have refused to acknowledge the testimony of the gentleman whose vehicle broke down, right outside of the cottage, in which him, his wife, and young baby were there for some time.

They did not hear any screams nor did they see anyone, while awaiting the tow truck to arrive which was over 30 minutes later.

There is also the testimony of the young couple that had been out to dinner. I will have to look back to find the names as they are slipping my memory at the moment.

What I do know is that there were no screams during the entire time they were broken down in front of the cottage.

ETA This can be found in the transcripts of the trial of the first instance.

At what time were they down the road with a stalled vehicle?

 

[Yellow]

It doesn't really matter what could be detected on November 6. It would not reveal what drugs were used on November 1.

It would be better than nothing and the prosecutor would have at least some evidence to imply the possibility that they used harder drugs the time of the murder. Also, if they did not use drugs in between, they very well could have detected levels and made some kind of argument about what possible levels were in the urine at the time of the murder. Why start now being a stickler for having the science right.

Of course, it could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt but this is the same prosecutor who is using as evidence a supposed murder weapon that does not have blood in it as well as footprints that do not even have MK DNA it (and a good faith dispute as to whether they even have her blood on those footsteps).

Quite simply there is no evidence that AK or RS were on some drug fueled rage. not one iota of evidence and I don't think even the prosecutor is making these arguments. The only reason people are resorting to these unsubstantiated arguments now IMO is bc they realize this ridiculous toilet theory sounds utterly ridiculous and are trying to rationalize it with other scenarios.

 

[Allusonz]

<phone records snipped>

The phone records are in the Massei report. I'm not sure what point is being made by posting the phone records?

We have been through this many times.

The 10:13 p.m. call was not from the cottage which affirms RG's own story that the incident took place much earlier than the trial of the first instance.

Please refer to the transcript of Micheli for his testimony.

 

[Yellow]

They were interviewed on November2. That is when the lies began. They had to be re-interviewed each time the lies were revealed.

The computer was used for 30 minutes from 5:32 AM. Sollecito's phone was turned on at 6 AM. They did not sleep until 10.

I find nothing strange about the Internet usage. I often do that in the morning, check my email, check the news, then go back to sleep. I don't see how the phone records prove anything. Sometimes I might not remember the time. I probably did that this morning, I could not say know what time my first time on the computer this morning was.

Police could very well have taken urine tests from them the day after the murder. I mean, it was a day or two after the murder when this was all over the world w/ that silly sex story. They were essentially suspects early in, they should have been drug tested

 

[Yellow]

Luminol reacts to over 300 diferent substances. Bleach is but one.

Luminol, LCN DNA, Stephanoni and perjury, Stephanoni and her so called methodologies are for a different day when I have to time to do a summation.

This lab at the time was not even certified for DNA, let alone the stringent requirements for LCN DNA.

This is why it is important to do that textra-whatever test. Bleach is over inclusive, as it is not exclusive to blood, that is why they routinely do the blood-only textra test to test for blood. Blood was not detected in any of the footprint samples I believe except maybe 1.

And it is not an issue of sensitives. As I understand and the Chris poster explains this better in the cite he provided yesterday, but it would not make for scientists to do the textra test only to then disregard it. Sensitivity as I understand from him would not be an issue here. The textra test should have been positive for blood on those footprints.

 

[Yellow]

<phone records snipped>

The phone records are in the Massei report. I'm not sure what point is being made by posting the phone records?

Indeed, I don't see what is so odd about the phone records. I see AK calling MK in panic the next day. What is so odd about the records?

Re MK calls, why did not they go through? Were the people not home? She had to have been the one making those Calls right?

 

[otto]

I find nothing strange about the Internet usage. I often do that in the morning, check my email, check the news, then go back to sleep. I don't see how the phone records prove anything. Sometimes I might not remember the time. I probably did that this morning, I could not say know what time my first time on the computer this morning was.

Police could very well have taken urine tests from them the day after the murder. I mean, it was a day or two after the murder when this was all over the world w/ that silly sex story. They were essentially suspects early in, they should have been drug tested

It doesn't matter when they used the computer. The point is that they claimed that they ate a late dinner around 11, were home throughout the evening, using the computer and then they slept until 10 ish in the morning. The computer did not support the claim, Dr Sollecito revealed that they ate dinner at 8:30 and computer/cell records reveal that they were awake at 5:32 AM.

Police had no reason to take urine tests on November 2. Urine tests were not routinely taken from witnesses. Knox/Sollecito were not suspects until November 6. They were asked to answer questions between November 2-5 not because they were suspects, but because the answers they provided were lies and police were investigating a murder where they needed facts.

 

[otto]

We have been through this many times.

The 10:13 p.m. call was not from the cottage which affirms RG's own story that the incident took place much earlier than the trial of the first instance.

Please refer to the transcript of Micheli for his testimony.

I still don't understand what is being demonstrated with the phone records.

At what time was the car stalled down the road from the cottage?

 

[MichaelSmith]

"However, just days later, this damning account also was retracted. Now that he had had time to mull things over, Raffaele said, he couldn’t remember much at all about the night Meredith was killed—not whether Amanda was with him at home the entire evening or whether she actually went out.

“Because there was so much grass, so much alcohol, he just couldn’t remember,” Raffaele’s lawyer offers helpfully. Only hashish and marijuana, he adds."

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/06/perugia200806

Tabloid reporting. There's no mention of alcohol in any of his statements or diary. No alcohol was found in either the cottage or his apartment. No court document mentions any claims or evidence he said he'd been drinking. That's why I don't use media articles to determine who said this or that to form my opinions.

 

[Yellow]

It doesn't matter when they used the computer. The point is that they claimed that they ate a late dinner around 11, were home throughout the evening, using the computer and then they slept until 10 ish in the morning. The computer did not support the claim, Dr Sollecito revealed that they ate dinner at 8:30 and computer/cell records reveal that they were awake at 5:32 AM.

Police had no reason to take urine tests on November 2. Urine tests were not routinely taken from witnesses. Knox/Sollecito were not suspects until November 6. They were asked to answer questions between November 2-5 not because they were suspects, but because the answers they provided were lies and police were investigating a murder where they needed facts.

I don't see how any of this is relevant. The prosecutor in this recent case now is not sticking to the earlier time of the murder and widened the time. No matter how you widen it, AK and RS don't have an alibi, as most people would not when they are home. So who cares what time they ate? I could see if people want to imply that just bc you lie about eating time you lie about murder (ridiculous IMO) but if whatever time they gave police still would not be an alibi then I don't see why even lie about that in the first place. I think they were just confused bc they had done the same routine for the 7 days prior.

 

[otto]

Tabloid reporting. There's no mention of alcohol in any of his statements or diary. No alcohol was found in either the cottage or his apartment. No court document mentions any claims or evidence he said he'd been drinking. That's why I don't use media articles to determine who said this or that to form my opinions.

I would prefer to rely on court documents, but we simply don't have access to all the files. It seems to me that media articles are perfectly acceptable sources for reporting on all cases that are discussed on this forum, as it is exceptionally rare that we have access to complete court transcripts. According to the quote in the referenced article, Sollecito's lawyer said that he claimed memory problems due to alcohol and drug consumption.

 

[otto]

I don't see how any of this is relevant. The prosecutor in this recent case now is not sticking to the earlier time of the murder and widened the time. No matter how you widen it, AK and RS don't have an alibi, as most people would not when they are home. So who cares what time they ate? I could see if people want to imply that just bc you lie about eating time you lie about murder (ridiculous IMO) but if whatever time they gave police still would not be an alibi then I don't see why even lie about that in the first place. I think they were just confused bc they had done the same routine for the 7 days prior.

No one cares when they ate. Police simply required a straight answer and that was not forthcoming from either Knox or Sollecito. Like it or not, lying during a murder investigation investigation. Claiming that the lies were a result of drug abuse does not help, especially if after several days a clear story emerges that conflicts with the alibis.

 

[MichaelSmith]

I would prefer to rely on court documents, but we simply don't have access to all the files. It seems to me that media articles are perfectly acceptable sources for reporting on all cases that are discussed on this forum, as it is exceptionally rare that we have access to complete court transcripts. According to the quote in the referenced article, Sollecito's lawyer said that he claimed memory problems due to alcohol and drug consumption.

Articles about this case are filled with quotes that were never actually said. A good example of that is the articles about what the British girls said but didn't really say. It's like using John Follains old article as proof Amanda wrote a story about raping another girl....except we know she never wrote that and he twisted her school essay completely.

 

[otto]

Articles about this case are filled with quotes that were never actually said. A good example of that is the articles about what the British girls said but didn't really say. It's like using John Follains old article as proof Amanda wrote a story about raping another girl....except we know she never wrote that and he twisted her school essay completely.

I kind of doubt that we are in a position to know what exactly is in all the transcripts and documents.

Knox wrote two stories where a woman was attacked.

 

[redheadedgal]

Sure, let's leave it at this with this case as well. There was an argument that resulted in murder.

an argument in this case is speculation.

the cases i posted? it was fact.

 

[otto]

an argument in this case is speculation.

the cases i posted? it was fact.

In the case of Jason Young murdering his wife, there is only speculation about motive, murder weapon, clothing, and how he pulled it off, but he's still guilty.