Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[MichaelSmith]

Old news but just for the record. Meredith's boyfriends opinion on the relationship instead of relying on books or blogs.

Page 93

QUESTION - Is the relationship between Meredith and Amanda were like?

ANSWER

A normal relationship, that I could also go out with them, a relationship of friendship normal.

QUESTION - This always, place over time these episodes, when they went out together, before or after she and Meredith have you put together?

ANSWER - What do you remember at that time, that happened to see them go out together to go to class, who in lesson or who maybe go shopping, anyway ...

 

[sherlockh]

Excellent post. Thank you. For the sake of scientific accuracy and at the risk of adding to some folks confusion let me point out that erythrocytes do not contain DNA.

Exactly, and this is what Luminol reacts to. So no DNA does not mean no blood.

 

[whoanellie]

Exactly, and this is what Luminol reacts to. So no DNA does not mean no blood.

I knew I would be adding to the confusion.

 

[sherlockh]

I knew I would be adding to the confusion.

What confusion? No DNA does not mean no blood. Negative blood testing on footprints or knife does not mean no blood. This is all well explained in the judges reporting. We can all have fun making up something about walking in feces, but in the end what only matters is that the judges are not confused.

 

[SMK]

The thing that is so disconcerting and confusing about this case, making you feel like you're going in circles in a dense fog:

Usually, when a police investigation says: There was simulation, there was false alibi, there had been conflict, there were multiple attackers, there is forensic evidence, etc., it is taken as truth. I can't recall any other case where virtually ALL of these facts were refuted by people outside the investigation and deemed to be a load of rubbish, unworthy of consideration. Nor can I recall a case in which the investigators and prosecution were ALL deemed scape-goaters, or liars, or delusional.

Unless I simply don't know that many cases; maybe the Ferguson or Ramsey or McCann cases are similar, but I wasn't that interested in those ....It's just head-spinning to be told no, no, no - whatever side you're on.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Exactly, and this is what Luminol reacts to. So no DNA does not mean no blood.

Whole blood has both red blood cells (erythrocytes) and white blood cells, of various types, and they are in the ratio of roughly 1000 to 1. If whole blood is present, one should be able to detect both biomolecules specific to blood and also to detect DNA. The lack of Meredith's DNA in so many of these samples is odd, to say the least. BTW, none of the three luminol-positive footprints in the hallway were positive for DNA, but there are errors in Massei and Hellman with respect to this. There is an unattributed shoe print that yielded a mixed DNA profile.

The way one rules out false positives from presumptive blood tests is to do a confirmatory test for blood. These tests use antibodies against hemoglobin or glycophorin A, and they general have lower limits of detection that are quite impressive.

 

[SMK]

This is a link to female murderers ... scroll to the bottom to pick the state. I suspect that plenty of the murders are violent.

http://murderpedia.org/index-by-country-female.htm

Thanks for this, Otto.

It just so happened that the very first link I clicked on, randomly, was the case of a young woman who worked as a secretery in the USA (state of Indiana) which involved drug use, an argument, and the killing of her two roommates with her boyfriend:

http://murderpedia.org/female.P/p/pender-sarah.htm

 

[SMK]

Whole blood has both red blood cells (erythrocytes) and white blood cells, of various types, and they are in the ratio of roughly 1000 to 1. If whole blood is present, one should be able to detect both biomolecules specific to blood and also to detect DNA. The lack of Meredith's DNA in so many of these samples is odd, to say the least. BTW, none of the three luminol-positive footprints in the hallway were positive for DNA, but there are errors in Massei and Hellman with respect to this. There is an unattributed shoe print that yielded a mixed DNA profile.

The way one rules out false positives from presumptive blood tests is to do a confirmatory test for blood. These tests use antibodies against hemoglobin or glycophorin A, and they general have lower limits of detection that are quite impressive.

Thank you for this info.

 

[SMK]

Whole blood has both red blood cells (erythrocytes) and white blood cells, of various types, and they are in the ratio of roughly 1000 to 1. If whole blood is present, one should be able to detect both biomolecules specific to blood and also to detect DNA. The lack of Meredith's DNA in so many of these samples is odd, to say the least. BTW, none of the three luminol-positive footprints in the hallway were positive for DNA, but there are errors in Massei and Hellman with respect to this. There is an unattributed shoe print that yielded a mixed DNA profile.

The way one rules out false positives from presumptive blood tests is to do a confirmatory test for blood. These tests use antibodies against hemoglobin or glycophorin A, and they general have lower limits of detection that are quite impressive.

So the judges/jurors will be given this sort of info by the defense, regarding the ambiguity of this evidence?

 

[Yellow]

This is why it was stupid for RG to continue to burglar after he committed the murder. In this case, a guy was stabbed, no suspects, but they also took his laptap and sold it to a third party. The victim had an app on it that would alert apple of a theft and when the unrelated third party tried to use it, police stormed his house, they were then able to trace the theft to the murderers

People know this is common w computers now. One would have to be pretty idiotic to kill someone than continue to rob, especially electronics

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/274636/2/Stolen-laptop-leads-cops-to-murder-suspects

 

[Yellow]

Of four samples found in Meredith's bedroom, three belonged to Guede and one to Sollecito. One of Guede's samples was on Meredith's bag.

What do you mean with "how can they be finding her blood but not her DNA?" Do you mean Meredith or Knox? Knox's DNA was found mixed with Meredith's blood. Meredith's DNA was not found mixed with Knox's blood. Meredith's DNA was not found mixed with anyone's blood, and only Knox's DNA fell into Meredith's blood. One of the locations where Knox's DNA fell into Meredith's blood is in Filomina's bedroom.

There is Meredith's blood and DNA evidence of Knox mixed with that blood in several locations at the cootage.

Apparently Mk "blood" (yet somehow not her DNA) mixed w AK DNA several areas. AK DNA could have been deposited there pre or post murder as she lives there. Given that the tests did not test positive for blood and they do not contain MK DNA I doubt those footprints are anything nefarious. And even if MK blood, the blood could have been either tracked by RG where it fell on top of preexisting AK DNA or blood was on the floor and AK stepped in it

All this -reasonable doubt.

 

[Yellow]

It can't be bleach.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15966054

Only very few substances have the same strong reaction to Luminol like blood does. The list is very short and it never makes any sense.
http://www.iapsonline.com/sites/def...mon Interferences with Luminol With Blood.pdf

Because of the specific reaction of blood (stronger and longer glow than any other iron source), a trained expert can see the difference. This was testified during trial.

There is blood all around and the footprints are in front of the murder room. Luminol did not detect footprints in other areas of the cottage. Only in front of the murder room and in Knox's room. Knox never claimed to have put feces all over her feet. Sollecito never claimed to have even walked barefoot in the cottage. The floor was regularly cleaned so there is no reason to assume these footprints were years old. Besides they just so happen to be compatible with Knox and Sollecito's feet, and one just so happened to be compatible with the visible bloody footprint on the bathmat. What are the chances?

Assuming the DNA came from skin cells is just speculation. If one would slog off DNA that easily, the floor would be covered in DNA from many people. That is not the case. It has been proven that they were both bleeding that night. It can't be proven that the DNA came from Knox's blood but it wouldn't surprise me either.

If you can exclude everything but blood then it is blood. The argument 'it could be something else' was not accepted by the first judge, and I doubt it will be accepted this time. The defense has to come up with something better than that. JMO.

We have no idea whether that floor is covered w DNA of MK and the other roommates. They did no testing on control areas or random samplings of flooring so it may very well be that skin cells from various feet is all over

 

[SMK]

This is why it was stupid for RG to continue to burglar after he committed the murder. In this case, a guy was stabbed, no suspects, but they also took his laptap and sold it to a third party. The victim had an app on it that would alert apple of a theft and when the unrelated third party tried to use it, police stormed his house, they were then able to trace the theft to the murderers

People know this is common w computers now. One would have to be pretty idiotic to kill someone than continue to rob, especially electronics

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/274636/2/Stolen-laptop-leads-cops-to-murder-suspects

So if Guede was a lone wolf, it would make sense not to take Filomen's laptop. I understand this.

 

[Amber29]

So if Guede was a lone wolf, it would make sense not to take Filomen's laptop. I understand this.

Except I don't know that this same technology existed in 2007, was the first iPhone even out? It wasn't even until a year or so ago that apple created the "find my iPhone" app. Which won't work if the device is off and it is easy to wipe a device clean and start fresh. I've had an iPhone and iPad stolen with that app installed.

Filomenas laptop wasn't a Mac that I know of. RG left a toilet unflushed I doubt he cared about stolen property being traced. All that had to be done with those cellphones was remove the SIM card and it was good as new.

 

[whoanellie]

Whole blood has both red blood cells (erythrocytes) and white blood cells, of various types, and they are in the ratio of roughly 1000 to 1. If whole blood is present, one should be able to detect both biomolecules specific to blood and also to detect DNA. The lack of Meredith's DNA in so many of these samples is odd, to say the least. BTW, none of the three luminol-positive footprints in the hallway were positive for DNA, but there are errors in Massei and Hellman with respect to this. There is an unattributed shoe print that yielded a mixed DNA profile.

The way one rules out false positives from presumptive blood tests is to do a confirmatory test for blood. These tests use antibodies against hemoglobin or glycophorin A, and they general have lower limits of detection that are quite impressive.

Chris, were antibody based tests done on the footprints and if so what were the results?

 

[Harmony 2]

The thing that is so disconcerting and confusing about this case, making you feel like you're going in circles in a dense fog:

Usually, when a police investigation says: There was simulation, there was false alibi, there had been conflict, there were multiple attackers, there is forensic evidence, etc., it is taken as truth. I can't recall any other case where virtually ALL of these facts were refuted by people outside the investigation and deemed to be a load of rubbish, unworthy of consideration. Nor can I recall a case in which the investigators and prosecution were ALL deemed scape-goaters, or liars, or delusional.

Unless I simply don't know that many cases; maybe the Ferguson or Ramsey or McCann cases are similar, but I wasn't that interested in those ....It's just head-spinning to be told no, no, no - whatever side you're on.

West Memphis Three?

 

[Yellow]

Except I don't know that this same technology existed in 2007, was the first iPhone even out? It wasn't even until a year or so ago that apple created the "find my iPhone" app. Which won't work if the device is off and it is easy to wipe a device clean and start fresh. I've had an iPhone and iPad stolen with that app installed.

Filomenas laptop wasn't a Mac that I know of. RG left a toilet unflushed I doubt he cared about stolen property being traced. All that had to be done with those cellphones was remove the SIM card and it was good as new.

I doubt RG would worry about stealing more property once he murdered someone, which is the far more serious crime. It would not necessarily matter whether the find my iPhone stuff was available at the time, but the point is, he could not have sold it anywhere; even if he sold it to a pawn shop, police potentially could have found the computer or jewels and linked it back to him. And he would have to do it quick. RG had no way of knowing the Ak angle and police would have been all over who were local criminal is who threw rocks into burglar. RG name would have been top on this list.

Only RG's perception matters; if he thought those things would link him to the crime, why steal them when they would be of no use and the downside - tying him to the crime - would be a key reason not to worry about stealing a few hundred dollars worth of more stuff.

 

[SMK]

West Memphis Three?

Didn't follow it, but know of it - yes, I see your point.

 

[Yellow]

People may be interested to watch 48 hours tomorrow which will report the case of David Camm who was acquitted after 3 trials of his wife and children murder. The case reminded me of this one. He was out playing basketball when he returned home to find them dead and he got blood on himself when he tried to help them. He was found guilty at first trial as they had competing experts on the blood spatter. After the first trial, they found DNA from a third party which linked a local criminal to the crime. After the first conviction was thrown out, they now alleged this new conspiracy motive with this third party (and I don't think they allege how he would have know this unrelated third man whose DNA and palmprint was on the vehicle, the man claims he was there to buy a gun but there was no evidence TMK of any meeting between the two men or how they knew each other). Both were found guilty but husbands was overturned again over the prosecutor alleging sexual abuse of one of the children

So a special prosecutors is appointed as some of the evidence experts alleged the prosecutor was pressuring them to find DNA connecting the two men. Third trial happened this month and husband was acquitted

I do not know all the details of this case - Wikipedia gives a good summary of David Camm - but it seems similar to this one in a way. It seems like this was just a run of the mill burglary by a local and prosecutor's over zealous attempts to railroad the husband and tie him in with an unrelated third party proved unsuccessful after 3 trials. This burglar apparently has some sort of foot fetish and liked to steal women shoes.

And that case has tons more motive than this one. The first trial was overturned bc they improperly used the husbands many many indiscretions to point to a murder, the second trial was overturned bc the prosecutor said in closing argument that husband abused the child, which was a reason for the murder to cover up the child ratting him up. There was also a life insurance motive.

It is going to be on 48 hours 10pm est tomorrow. There also seems to be much more evidence in this Camm case than Knox. I am not sure what to think about his guilt bc why would the third party kill innocent children in their car seats? It seems like a hit.

 

[SMK]

Apparently Mk "blood" (yet somehow not her DNA) mixed w AK DNA several areas. AK DNA could have been deposited there pre or post murder as she lives there. Given that the tests did not test positive for blood and they do not contain MK DNA I doubt those footprints are anything nefarious. And even if MK blood, the blood could have been either tracked by RG where it fell on top of preexisting AK DNA or blood was on the floor and AK stepped in it

All this -reasonable doubt.

Is Dr. Galati wrong in his assertion here, and is the Cassazione also wrong?

Galati section (from pdf)

Analysis of prints and other traces

About the luminol foot prints, it is implausible to assume that those prints were left on some other occasion, since – in the Court’s view - luminol basically indicates blood (and in no other circumstance could someone produce such a set of prints in blood). The Cassazione notes that the Massei scenario to explain the footprints was far more plausible, and Hellmann-Zanetti bring no reason to refute it.