Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[SMK]

This would be the first crime in the history of time when someone is killed over not flushing the toilet. Seriously, has this ever been alleged as a motive ever in any Crime?

Young adult women kill over boyfriends or they kill over jealousy usually having something to do with either another girl being popular with the guys or another girl doing better in school. And usually there is evidence of this long simmering jealously. They do not kill over who flushes the toilet, a jealously motive here would be better or at least more believeable (supposing they had evidence of jealousy which they do not)

I understand that the unflushed toilet scenario is a bit ridiculous (I find it absurd myself) but Crini said other things as well:

MK being angry that her peace and time to study were being invaded, after some weeks of smouldering resentment on both sides; the LeChic job rivalry coming on the heels of Meredith having ignored AK on Halloween, etc.

I am not positive Knox was involved, but if she was, I could see how something might have happened, especially if drugs or drinking were involved, and if there were any elements of transference at play (which happens in all sorts of relationships: friendships, love affairs, co-worker relationships, roommate, etc.) In my opinion, Knox would have to be disturbed beneath the surface for something like this to escalate (not entirely normal, in other words, but many people are not for many reasons). Whether this can be proven in court or if the evidence is strong enough remains to be seen. I might have reasonable doubt if on the jury, not sure.

To my thinking, the unflushed toilet MAY have played a part RE Guede, if he felt humiliated at a moment in which he could not bear humiliation.(having harbored amorous feelings toward Ms Kercher, and now feeling like a buffoon as a fight escalated between Knox and Kercher. ) all speculation of course.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

All of that is just spin and op/ed from an anonymous blogger. They twist peoples words and make things up but don't show you the actual words of each witness so you can judge for yourself. I noticed the footnote links don't even work.

When I looked into the claim that a photo showed the knife that Sollecito had above his bed, I found that themurderofmeredithkercher used an anonymous blogger as the source of this claim. Thanks to Websleuth's RoseMontague, I found a Daily Telegraph article with the same photo that said it had been brought to court for a demonstration (citation in a previous thread). That is not the only error I found. Let the buyer beware.

 

[otto]

This would be the first crime in the history of time when someone is killed over not flushing the toilet. Seriously, has this ever been alleged as a motive ever in any Crime?

Young adult women kill over boyfriends or they kill over jealousy usually having something to do with either another girl being popular with the guys or another girl doing better in school. And usually there is evidence of this long simmering jealously. They do not kill over who flushes the toilet, a jealously motive here would be better or at least more believeable (supposing they had evidence of jealousy which they do not)

Why the focus on the toilet? The prosecutor said that the conflict started due to the "invasion" by drugged up Knox and two strange men. Knox did not appear to respect the calm environment that Laura, Filomina and Meredith had established. She moved in mid-September and, by all accounts, viewed the cottage as a party spot. At the time of the murder, she wasn't even spending the night there. If she wanted a quiet evening, she stayed with Sollecito. If she wanted to party, she went to the cottage. Is it difficult to understand that a serious university student would be upset that, Knox, who attended "learn to speak Italian" class, was disrespectful of their home environment?

 

[Amber29]

I understand that the unflushed toilet scenario is a bit ridiculous (I find it absurd myself) but Crini said other things as well:

MK being angry that her peace and time to study were being invaded, after some weeks of smouldering resentment on both sides; the LeChic job rivalry coming on the heels of Meredith having ignored AK on Halloween, etc.

I am not positive Knox was involved, but if she was, I could see how something might have happened, especially if drugs or drinking were involved, and if there were any elements of transference at play (which happens in all sorts of relationships: friendships, love affairs, co-worker relationships, roommate, etc.) In my opinion, Knox would have to be disturbed beneath the surface for something like this to escalate (not entirely normal, in other words, but many people are not for many reasons). Whether this can be proven in court or if the evidence is strong enough remains to be seen. I might have reasonable doubt if on the jury, not sure.

To my thinking, the unflushed toilet MAY have played a part RE Guede, if he felt humiliated at a moment in which he could not bear humiliation.

The idea is to spin Crini's words so that it was ALL based on the poo.

That is the headline that makes the prosecutor look the most ridiculous. That is the way the media works. Take words completely out of context and sell it to everybody to form the story they want to tell. The worst part is people who don't go beyond these articles themselves will believe it. When you and I know there was ALOT more to what he said.

 

[otto]

RG went in there to rob, at some point it escalated to murder. He may be did not want to complete the burglary bc what use would it be? It would just tie him to the murder. Any evidence he had it or tried to sell it would tie the murder to him

They got lucky if he left the palmprint, either way they would have gotten to him eventually but it may have taken longer had he not left that. Indeed maybe without DNA, they would have focused so much on AK so as to ignore evidence of local thugs involvement

BBM
If that was why he was there, why didn't he steal anything in Filomina's bedroom? Why were all the laptops, cameras, jewelry still in the cottage?

 

[otto]

The idea is to spin Crini's words so that it was ALL based on the poo.

That is the headline that makes the prosecutor look the most ridiculous. That is the way the media works. Take words completely out of context and sell it to everybody to form the story they want to tell. The worst part is people who don't go beyond these articles themselves will believe it. When you and I know there was ALOT more to what he said.

The headline could be better if it included context: Knox's Filthy Toilet Habits Contribute to Conflict that Ended in Murder

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Candace Dempsey wrote, "The ancient shutters in her room also needed fixing. One was warped, preventing her from locking the set. Worse, the wind blew the shutters open." I don't doubt that Filomena insisted during the trial that she had closed the shutters. However, my understanding is that she was less certain when she was questions prior to this. That a witness's testimony changes over time is not unprecedented, and it does not mean that the witness is lying. The Cameron Todd Willingham case is a good example of this phenomenon.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

@MichaelSmith: Thanks for linking to the transcripts, but I couldn't find Filomena's testimony (it would take forever, there was too much to wade through and was not labeled with the names of witnesses)---just tell me: What did she actually say. Thanks.

Dempsey, p. 274, "There had been no melodrama between them [Meredith and Amanda] in the cottage. Sure, Filomean would have appreciated a little more help around the house and Amanda's yoga was annoying, but she always paid her rent."

 

[Amber29]

Candace Dempsey wrote, "The ancient shutters in her room also needed fixing. One was warped, preventing her from locking the set. Worse, the wind blew the shutters open." I don't doubt that Filomena insisted during the trial that she had closed the shutters. However, my understanding is that she was less certain when she was questions prior to this. That a witness's testimony changes over time is not unprecedented, and it does not mean that the witness is lying. The Cameron Todd Willingham case is a good example of this phenomenon.

So again Candace Dempsey is credible? Earlier I quoted Barbie Nadeau and it was implied that she's not a reliable source.

Is this more of the only one side is credible? Much like the comparison of the websites IIP and PMF?

 

[otto]

Candace Dempsey wrote, "The ancient shutters in her room also needed fixing. One was warped, preventing her from locking the set. Worse, the wind blew the shutters open." I don't doubt that Filomena insisted during the trial that she had closed the shutters. However, my understanding is that she was less certain when she was questions prior to this. That a witness's testimony changes over time is not unprecedented, and it does not mean that the witness is lying. The Cameron Todd Willingham case is a good example of this phenomenon.

Dempsey attempts to interpret evidence against Knox such that it appears silly. In this case, Dempsey suggests that wind blows exterior shutters open. How does that happen? If that were true, the wind would blow the exterior door in the same direction, meaning it would blow it closed, not open. Is she suggesting that the wind blew in one direction to blow the door open and simultaneously in the opposite direction to blow the exterior shutters open? She is a cooking blogger that lacks logic, catering to an audience that blindly believes rather than questions or thinks.

Dempsey also claimed that Meredith's bedroom was the size of an ironing board (something like that) suggestiing that it was impossible for four people to be in the same room at the same time? How many people are still running with that absurd claim?

 

[Yellow]

Why the focus on the toilet? The prosecutor said that the conflict started due to the "invasion" by drugged up Knox and two strange men. Knox did not appear to respect the calm environment that Laura, Filomina and Meredith had established. She moved in mid-September and, by all accounts, viewed the cottage as a party spot. At the time of the murder, she wasn't even spending the night there. If she wanted a quiet evening, she stayed with Sollecito. If she wanted to party, she went to the cottage. Is it difficult to understand that a serious university student would be upset that, Knox, who attended "learn to speak Italian" class, was disrespectful of their home environment?

Where is there any evidence that AK ever hosted ant sort of party at the cottage? College parties have kids sitting around drinking and dancing. When did that ever take place?

Indeed, AK had not even slept at the cottage that week I believe. Other than RS and maybe one or two other guys, it was maybe a total of 1 or 2 nights in total where she even had a male friend there.

She had slept at RS 7 days in a row and she did not return to the cottage at any time during the time she knew RS to party. Why was that night different?

Who did she party with? Indeed, I do not think AK had any friends in itay to host any sort of party.

Moreover, was there ever any sort of party at the cottage at all? They smoked pot (including MK and other roommates) w boys downstairs, one of whom MK has an interest. I do not know of any evidence of any parties of the cottage at all except ones joined in by MK and other roommates.

The prosecutor said there some sort of dispute about who flushed the toilet and that escalated to murder. Someone above posted the links. If people want to rely on the prosecutor's word as gospel, then they should not try to excuse the ridiculous things he says too.

 

[otto]

Dempsey, p. 274, "There had been no melodrama between them [Meredith and Amanda] in the cottage. Sure, Filomean would have appreciated a little more help around the house and Amanda's yoga was annoying, but she always paid her rent."

So, according to Dempsey, if someone in a shared accommodation pays the rent, that's good enough? I guess that tells us more about Dempsey than anything else. An adult in a shared accommodation has a lot more responsibility beyond simply paying the rent. I suppose Dempsey and Knox expect that the other roommates provide maid service.

 

[otto]

Where is there any evidence that AK ever hosted ant sort of party at the cottage? College parties have kids sitting around drinking and dancing. When did that ever take place?

Indeed, AK had not even slept at the cottage that week I believe. Other than RS and maybe one or two other guys, it was maybe a total of 1 or 2 nights in total where she even had a male friend there.

She had slept at RS 7 days in a row and she did not return to the cottage at any time during the time she knew RS to party. Why was that night different?

Who did she party with? Indeed, I do not think AK had any friends in itay to host any sort of party.

Moreover, was there ever any sort of party at the cottage at all? They smoked pot (including MK and other roommates) w boys downstairs, one of whom MK has an interest. I do not know of any evidence of any parties of the cottage at all except ones joined in by MK and other roommates.

The prosecutor said there some sort of dispute about who flushed the toilet and that escalated to murder. Someone above posted the links. If people want to rely on the prosecutor's word as gospel, then they should not try to excuse the ridiculous things he says too.

BBM
Not true. The prosecutor said that the "invasion" by Knox and two strange men after 9 on a Sunday night led to conflict. That conflict escalated because of yet another filthy toilet.

 

[Yellow]

BBM
If that was why he was there, why didn't he steal anything in Filomina's bedroom? Why were all the laptops, cameras, jewelry still in the cottage?

As I said in that post, his original intention was to rob but once he did the murder (which was not his original intention) he wanted to distance himself from the cottage as much as possible. He knew he could not sell the computers, jewelry, bc then the murder would be traced back to him.

What he did was what one would expect, no one would commit an unplanned murder, steal the computers and jewelry which tied him to the scene and then leave. That would be pretty stupid to do

He also could have been in panic, just want to high tail out of there as soon as possible.

 

[otto]

As I said in that post, his original intention was to rob but once he did the murder (which was not his original intention) he wanted to distance himself from the cottage as much as possible. He knew he could not sell the computers, jewelry, bc then the murder would be traced back to him.

What he did was what one would expect, no one would commit an unplanned murder, steal the computers and jewelry which tied him to the scene and then leave. That would be pretty stupid to do

He also could have been in panic, just want to high tail out of there as soon as possible.

If he wanted to "high tail" out of there, where does the "he stopped to wash his pants" imagining fit?

If he wanted to rob the cottage, he would have done that. Instead, Meredith's phones and rent money were missing. Knox knew that Meredith had the 300 euros rent money with her. That was taken. The phones were taken to prevent Meredith from calling for help. Her bedroom door was locked to delay discovery of the body. This was not a robbery. There was a questionable bank deposit made by Knox ... more money that she could account for.

 

[Amber29]

As I said in that post, his original intention was to rob but once he did the murder (which was not his original intention) he wanted to distance himself from the cottage as much as possible. He knew he could not sell the computers, jewelry, bc then the murder would be traced back to him.

What he did was what one would expect, no one would commit an unplanned murder, steal the computers and jewelry which tied him to the scene and then leave. That would be pretty stupid to do

He also could have been in panic, just want to high tail out of there as soon as possible.

I think stolen objects linking him to the murder would be the least of his worries.

So did he high tail it out in a panic or stop to wash his pants in the bathroom?

 

[Yellow]

BBM
Not true. The prosecutor said that the "invasion" by Knox and two strange men after 9 on a Sunday night led to conflict. That conflict escalated because of yet another filthy toilet.

Well, I do not read Italian so I do not know exactly what the prosecutor said word for word. But he did say there was some conflict that arose about the toilet, maybe that was part of a bigger conflict about cleaning or quietness or whatever, and then it escalated into murder.

Any conflict about cleaning, about the toilet or otherwise, is just a ridiculous story. Even a conflict about not being quiet, that too is a ridiculous story to explain a murder: "college girl kills roommate bc she complained she was too loud." That sounds almost a ridiculous as the toilet story

And where is there any evidence of all this partying at the cottage and w who?

 

[Yellow]

If he wanted to "high tail" out of there, where does the "he stopped to wash his pants" imagining fit?

If he wanted to rob the cottage, he would have done that. Instead, Meredith's phones and rent money were missing. Knox knew that Meredith had the 300 euros rent money with her. That was taken. The phones were taken to prevent Meredith from calling for help. Her bedroom door was locked to delay discovery of the body. This was not a robbery.

Maybe he took stuff easy to get or maybe he did some burglary before the murder. Not all burglars take every single thing of value especially when they may be interrupted

He may have went to clean, that does not mean he wanted to hang around and steal more stuff, stuff that he could not resell.

He got rid of the phones he had bc he knew he could not resell them and ping evidence could have tracked him

And money cannot be traced. I am sure MK did not have a list of the serial numbers of her money. He could have easily used that whereas jewelry, etc would be useless

 

[Yellow]

The headline could be better if it included context: Knox's Filthy Toilet Habits Contribute to Conflict that Ended in Murder

No matter how phrased, the headline is laughable, if AK remains convicted, the tabloids will have fun with this one.

Parents will have to warn their children when dropping them off at college: "don't complain if your roommate parties too much or does not flush the toilet or clean the room right bc you might get killed for it"

 

[Amber29]

No matter how phrased, the headline is laughable, if AK remains convicted, the tabloids will have fun with this one.

IMO senseless murders are committed everyday, just so happens this one made international news.