Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[SMK]

As to your first question, Massai report concluded that phone calls to postal police happened before arrival so that addresses that concern. People on the murder wiki can split hairs about that but the evidence shows the calls we replaced before

I would suspect some things about your second concern we just are not going to ever really know. I also think this is a situation where translation issues come into play and since there was no stenographer there we don't really know what exactly was said and how it is being translated now

AK could very well have said, " Maybe it is that big of a concern bc MK sometimes Locked her door." The key word "maybe" or "sometimes" could have been said and that would change the entire tone. I think AK did not fully appreciate the gravity of the situation, bc at that point they had no clue they would find a dead body. Quite frankly, in the excitement of that situation, I don't think anyone knows word for word what anyone really says. Also, at this point, she was not fluent in Italian, it could have been something in the way she phrased it that put a different spin on it than intended.

In any events it seems completely illogical why AK would want to delay when she knew the police were there and were going to find that body within minutes. Would 5 minutes somehow make a difference to her plan? I don't see what the logic would be

I also never heard of any case anywhere where similar evidence was somehow used to impute guilt. I think even she said exactly what the wiki claims, it would be odd but given there was no logical reason for her to say it, I don't think it is nefarious. Why tell the postal police they tried to knock the door down then? That is at odds w her apparent attitude about the door there. Either she is just a naive kid saying things about of excitement, or she is a cold blooded murderer. If murderer I don't see why you would tell the police she tried to break the door down at all.

Is this even something the prosecutor has made a big deal about? If just on the murder wiki, I would suspect there may be some translation issues going on. I am not sure, maybe the prosecutor is using it.

I don't know if they are using it: The idea was that Knox suddenly got "cold feet" - like telling the dentist to just wait a few more minutes before drilling the tooth.

But I sure hope this wiki is good at its word, and has not exaggerated or embroidered or made any leaps in logic. Because if so, it's made a fool of me. :blushing:

Yes, it might have been all a misunderstanding. As I said, if this wiki is good as gold, then the ruling ought to be upheld convictions. If it is just a zealot site, then accquital should be their slap in the face for having had the gall to mislead people. At some point, the truth must come out about this case. (let's hope)

 

[SMK]

Sollecito did not break down the door. He was in the living room/kitchen area when the door was broken. Sollecito cracked the door when he and Knox were alone at the cottage. When they were alone, they were panicked and tried to break down the door. After the arrival of Postal Police and Filomina, Knox stated that Meredith routinely locked her door.

Filomina accepted full responsibility for the cost of repairing the door prior to it being broken.

Otto, in your opinion, why did they panic, and why did they make an attempt of sorts on the door? (was it an old, heavy medeival door, or a flimsy door?)

 

[otto]

There is at least a dispute between the two sides in whose footprint is on the bathmat, defense says RG

There's no dispute regarding the footprint. All legal arguments were debated during trial, and the conclusion of the jury was that the bloody foot print on the bath mat is consistent with Sollecito's foot. There is no uncertainty, although people unrelated to the investigation continue to modify the shape of the print by making it longer and narrower, and then suggesting that it is consistent with Guede.

 

[geevee]

The question I have about this is there are obvious footprints of his in the bedroom. His shoes were bloody. Why would he take his shoes off to wash his pants rather than sticking his shoed feet and pants into the bidet to wash them? He wasn't caring much about the evidence in the house, apparently, so why take the time to take his shoes and socks off and put them back on?

It seems much more reasonable for him to remove shoes and socks to wash his spattered pants than to soak his shoed/socked feet and leave the cottage to walk around in sopping wet socks and shoes.

 

[otto]

IIUC they fade out as they go toward the door. I am not aware that any were found outside.

That's right. Guede's prints go from Meredith's bedroom to the exit. They become more faint as they approach the exit. Do we need a bloody footprint on the driveway to know where Guede went after arriving at the exit?

This is Guede's footprint path

 

[DerKritiker2011]

There is no evidence that Guede washed his clothes in the bathroom. There is no evidence that he was in the bathroom. If Guede was washing his clothes and feet in the bathroom, shouldn't there be at least some evidence that this happened?

What's about the evidence of Mr. Sollecito in the bathroom?

 

[Yellow]

The fact that she expressed concern about the locked door to Filomena, and in her email home she expresses how frenzied she and RS had been over it: But when the Postal Police arrive, she says the locked door is typical of MK and not of any concern. That is a complete turn-about. So they ignored it until F came in, said it was a huge deal, and to break it down forthwith. It's indicative of Knox trying to stall, or something. To a nature like mine, these are the riveting things, the details which make alarms go off. I find it far more intriguing than luminol and dna. But then, I am more a literary/psychological analytical type. If the murderwiki authors have fabricated any of this, a plague be on their houses, grrrrrr
ETA: In other words, when the wiki authors lay claim to being objective, to working from transcripts, and summarizing for us, we ought to be able to take them at their word. I am supposed to be saved the time of wading through hundreds of pages by their synopsis, which is to be fact-based only. If not, then the truth should come out with an acquittal.

None of the pro guilt or pro innocent websites are completely objective IMO and as far as I know there really is no one place that has objective info in English. Even translations could have their own agenda, depending on the site you are on

I think the info on Wikipedia is pretty fact based without an agenda. But even they have had to modify the site numerous times when people posted incorrect info on what was found. So wikipedia is pretty bare bones

I don't know any site or source for translations that is completely objective. I think other cases have it but this case is so polarizing and people who start these sites have such strong feelings, for whatever reason there is just not really a site for objective facts

 

[otto]

Otto, in your opinion, why did they panic, and why did they make an attempt of sorts on the door? (was it an old, heavy medeival door, or a flimsy door?)

I think that it was a regular door. For some reason, they wanted to break down the door when they were alone, but after the arrival for police and Filomina, they seemed to want everyone to believe that Meredith's locked door was normal.

Crini mentions Knox's lamp in Meredith's bedroom. I suppose it's possible that Knox and Sollecito used the lamp in Meredith's bedroom, then locked the door and disposed of the keys. Afterward, they realized that the lamp was still in the room and they wanted to retrieve it.

Alternatively, perhaps they wanted to break down the door before Filomina and friends arrived so that everyone could trample the scene and evidence prior to police being contacted. Unfortunately for them, the police arrived by surprise.

 

[otto]

It seems much more reasonable for him to remove shoes and socks to wash his spattered pants than to soak his shoed/socked feet and leave the cottage to walk around in sopping wet socks and shoes.

There is clear evidence that Guede was in the large bathroom, corridor, living room and Meredith's bedroom. It is completely inconsistent with the evidence to suggest that he meticulously eliminated evidence from the small bathroom other than a half footprint on the edge of a bathmat - that the court concluded is consistent with Sollecito.

 

[Yellow]

There's no dispute regarding the footprint. All legal arguments were debated during trial, and the conclusion of the jury was that the bloody foot print on the bath mat is consistent with Sollecito's foot. There is no uncertainty, although people unrelated to the investigation continue to modify the shape of the print by making it longer and narrower, and then suggesting that it is consistent with Guede.

The conclusion of the jury was alot of things, that does not mean there is no dispute. Some of those conclusions were rejected by higher courts, on other aspects, higher courts did not rule. If there was no dispute RS minds well go home and just say send me to jail then. I am sure RS is challenging that being his foot

Right now we only have the first trial ruling on it, since the SC had no choice but to affirm them. We will see what the new appeals court says.

 

[Yellow]

I think that it was a regular door. For some reason, they wanted to break down the door when they were alone, but after the arrival for police and Filomina, they seemed to want everyone to believe that Meredith's locked door was normal.

Crini mentions Knox's lamp in Meredith's bedroom. I suppose it's possible that Knox and Sollecito used the lamp in Meredith's bedroom, then locked the door and disposed of the keys. Afterward, they realized that the lamp was still in the room and they wanted to retrieve it.

Alternatively, perhaps they wanted to break down the door before Filomina and friends arrived so that everyone could trample the scene and evidence prior to police being contacted. Unfortunately for them, the police arrived by surprise.

What is this wiki you are referring to? If it is the Murder in Perigua one (which looks like a Wikipedia)that has a very clear agenda, it was discussed in other posts

 

[otto]

What's about the evidence of Mr. Sollecito in the bathroom?

There's a partial bloody footprint that the courts have attributed to Sollecito in the small bathroom.

 

[otto]

None of the pro guilt or pro innocent websites are completely objective IMO and as far as I know there really is no one place that has objective info in English. Even translations could have their own agenda, depending on the site you are on

I think the info on Wikipedia is pretty fact based without an agenda. But even they have had to modify the site numerous times when people posted incorrect info on what was found. So wikipedia is pretty bare bones

I don't know any site or source for translations that is completely objective. I think other cases have it but this case is so polarizing and people who start these sites have such strong feelings, for whatever reason there is just not really a site for objective facts

The Wikipedia content was compromised when it was discovered that some people, like perhaps Dempsey, had several handles that they used to manipulate the facts.

 

[SMK]

None of the pro guilt or pro innocent websites are completely objective IMO and as far as I know there really is no one place that has objective info in English. Even translations could have their own agenda, depending on the site you are on

I think the info on Wikipedia is pretty fact based without an agenda. But even they have had to modify the site numerous times when people posted incorrect info on what was found. So wikipedia is pretty bare bones

I don't know any site or source for translations that is completely objective. I think other cases have it but this case is so polarizing and people who start these sites have such strong feelings, for whatever reason there is just not really a site for objective facts

Yes, that is always a problem. And even in court, the prosecution and the defense, and all their experts, have each their own respective agendas. So even a jury may be overly-swayed by some false argument. As Halkides has noted, the Lindy Chamberlain case in Australia was one where many saw her to be a witch-like creature. But the view was in the eye of the beholder, and in their minds, as a besetting vice. I think perhaps if Knox did not have SO many supporting her innocence, I would be more inclined to view her as innocent (in other words, she lost her "under-dog" status with all the main stream media blitz here, and I lost interest. And then I got a little suspicious, too. )

 

[SMK]

The Wikipedia content was compromised when it was discovered that some people, like perhaps Dempsey, had several handles that they used to manipulate the facts.

Well, it wouldn't surprise me about her, and other people on both sides. I guess that's why Wikipedia has to be so alert.

 

[otto]

What is this wiki you are referring to? If it is the Murder in Perigua one (which looks like a Wikipedia)that has a very clear agenda, it was discussed in other posts

I don't use Wikipedia. I have referenced the Massei Report.

 

[Yellow]

The Wikipedia content was compromised when it was discovered that some people, like perhaps Dempsey, had several handles that they used to manipulate the facts.

I suspect it went both ways, so now they just basically have nothing. I read an article where pro guilt posters were adding things about finding stuff, etc and Wikipedia had to remove those posts. Whoever supervises the Wikipedia page Probably has a busy job.

 

[SMK]

What is this wiki you are referring to? If it is the Murder in Perigua one (which looks like a Wikipedia)that has a very clear agenda, it was discussed in other posts

The murderformeredithkercher wiki which I (not Otto) reference does indeed look like Wikipedia, as it uses the same template. They fooled me in the beginning; I thought it really was some members of the Associated Press who had contracted with Wikipedia. :facepalm:

It's a good site, but of course it is an opinion site, i now see, so you have to make sure of all the references by checking transcripts and documents---which kind of defeats the purpose of the wiki

 

[Yellow]

I don't use Wikipedia. I have referenced the Massei Report.

I was referring to SMK. She or he said she was using the murder wiki and I was not sure who she or he was referring to, what is murder wiki?

 

[SMK]

I was referring to SMK. She or he said she was using the murder wiki and I was not sure who she or he was referring to, what is murder wiki?

just replied above