Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#8

[Allusonz]

Why would two legal professionals live like "typical college students"?

... or should we pretend that Filomina and Laura were college students in order to make the excuses for murder fit.

I know adults whose room is messier than this. I think one forgets sometimes that neither of them were married, they as well used drugs, I would also think they would be like many young adults in their 20's spending more time with their friends and boyfriends than cleaning house.

 

[Allusonz]

Was he presenting evidence? Were the media too delicate, or unprofessional, to be present for trial evidence?

Who really cares if the journalists saw the evidence ... that's their job. If they are journalists, presumably they did not interfere with the trial by publishing gossip about gruesome naked dead body photos, but instead reported the legal argument.

Seriously?

MK's parents were upset seeing the re-enactment, let alone having their daughters autopsy photos shown to the world's press. What LE shoves everything a deceased person owns into piles, then sends back a small box of items to the family?

 

[otto]

The shutter wasn't completly opened. The stone was deflected by the shutter in case of the conservation of momentum.

Since when do nine pound rocks bounce 8 feet to the left after penetrating a shutter, a window and a shutter ... or even a window and then a shutter? Gravity plays a part with nine pound rocks.

Maybe this is something the accident reconstructionist can answer: what trajectory did the nine pound rock take as it passed through the glass, crashed into the shutter and landed under the desk? If that was the natural trajectory, why didn't all the glass also land under the desk?

If the rock was thrown from outside the cottage, hitting the glass just before knocking the shutter open, the glass should have fallen in a line on the floor in the interior of the room. Did that happen?

Is there any reason why Knox and Sollecito would not have thrown the rock from outside the cottage?

 

[Allusonz]

They don't. They ignore it because it does not fit with their idea of events. The entire investigation was riddled with that type of thinking, which is why it is such a mess today.

Bingo!

Then add in the fact that they were incarcerated for a year prior to charges being brought, politics, and the huge sums of money they are on the hook for if they don't find them guilty.

Just to add to something that was brought up previously regarding the judges on the ISC. It is actually illegal to do what they did. They will probably not be sitting on the ISC for long as I suspect some "retirements" will be requested.

 

[Allusonz]

Once we get past the spiderman theory and the bouncing, anti-gravity nine pound rock, what happens with the eye witness testimony about the broken glass on top of the ransacked items ... simply assume that eye witnesses are all liars?

Can anyone provide a re-inactment from a credible expert which can explain the prosecutions theory? Did anyone ask if this network tested the prosecution theory? I am going to bet no one asked the network.....

 

[Allusonz]

I'm an athletic fit person, I assure you.
The MLB players make hitting a ball thrown 100mph look easy, although I guarantee any "athlete" can't do it.

I didn't suggest that. What I suggested is that it's questionable why they chose to film it showing only waist up. I have no idea what was going on with his feet and that's not my fault.

RG was MLB material if one would look up additional information regarding him. It seems that maybe drugs and other activities took him down a far more sinister path.

 

[otto]

Let me see if I understand this right. To date we have the following:

1. PLE leaking information to the press.
2. As one poster has already pointed out MK's families own lawyer did not wait for the courtroom to be cleared.
3. We have a cleanup of DNA which is not visible to the naked eye being cleaned up according to some without one bit of evidence to support this claim.
4. We now have people floating in the air in order to reach up a few feet, yet anyone that has done any kind of rock climbing whether that be indoors or outdoors, is more than capable of climbing much higher than this with less to grab onto.
5. It is being suggested that a press organization edited their tape without anything to back up this hypothesis in any way shape or form.
6. Even with the weather reports regarding "rain", they are ALL wrong only because a prosecutor stated so. The same prosecution that has deceived the courts previously.
7. There is not one puddle of water showing in any of the initial photographs. In fact there is no moisture present at all.
8. Testimony in court contradicts this information.

Yet the JUDGE is correct whether he ignored evidence presented or not.
We have gone from a satanic sex orgy fueled by drugs to feces in a toilet. I feel like this case is out of the twilight zone.
ETA Why has no one mentioned the WIND that evening? How does anyone explain to me that MK's phone was enroute or at the garden by 10:13?

Bare with while I try to understand ...

1. is PLE the Patrick Lumumba Excuse?
   
2. Journalists have a professional responsibility to report case progress, not gruesome details. Gruesome detail reporters are not journalists.
   
3. I don't understand the comment about DNA being cleaned up without the naked eye ... DNA is not normally visible.
   
4. I understand. Climbing enthusiasts routinely do four finger push ups while examining an hinge 13 feet off the ground.
   
5. someone put out a propaganda film just prior to the beginning of the appeal. Several points were presented as perhaps being relevant. One of the points related to the window. The climbing enthusiast was unable to climb to the window given 2007 conditions.
   
6. rain on the night of the murder is part of the evidentiary records, as we know from the prosecution statement on Nov 25, 2913. Regional records are apparently inaccurate.
   
7. absence of puddle at 1 PM the following day does not mean that it did not rain the night before
   
8. Testimony from Knox undoubtedly contradicted information. That's why she was convicted.

 

[Allusonz]

So when the rock hit the inner shade did it open it?

Wonders how it can hit the outside of the shutter if it was thrown from the inside of the room as per the prosecution theory? Has anyone tested this theory as to how this would of been done?

I am quite certain no one can explain the marks on the outside of the shutter if the rock was thrown from the inside. Of couse some would want me to believe that drugged out people, somehow made their way through the streets of Perugia, with a knife in a purse, without being seen or making any marks inside AK's purse, then were able to weave drunkenly and with drugs back through the streets to RS's apartment.

I am not good with conspiracy theories, as one should be able to discern.

 

[otto]

I know adults whose room is messier than this. I think one forgets sometimes that neither of them were married, they as well used drugs, I would also think they would be like many young adults in their 20's spending more time with their friends and boyfriends than cleaning house.

If Laura and Filomina are not sloppy college students, they are messier adults and drug abusers that sleep around with boyfriends (plural)?

 

[Allusonz]

Bare with while I try to understand ...

1. is PLE the Patrick Lumumba Excuse?
   
2. Journalists have a professional responsibility to report case progress, not gruesome details. Gruesome detail reporters are not journalists.
   
3. I don't understand the comment about DNA being cleaned up without the naked eye ... DNA is not normally visible.
   
4. I understand. Climbing enthusiasts routinely do four finger push ups while examining an hinge 13 feet off the ground.
   
5. someone put out a propaganda film just prior to the beginning of the appeal. Several points were presented as perhaps being relevant. One of the points related to the window. The climbing enthusiast was unable to climb to the window given 2007 conditions.
   
6. rain on the night of the murder is part of the evidentiary records, as we know from the prosecution statement on Nov 25, 2913. Regional records are apparently inaccurate.
   
7. absence of puddles does at 1 PM the following day does not mean that it did not rain the night before
   
8. Testimony from Knox undoubtedly contradicted information. That's why she was convicted.

I believe that after this many years of discussing this case, that is the first time I have ever seen PLE referred to as the PL EXCUSE.

A lawyer representing a deceased person has much higher ethical standards than the press.

Exactly. Thank you for making my point that DNA cannot be seen with the naked eye.

Do you have a cite that this is a propaganda film? What about the previous re-inactments? Most importantly, where is the re-inactment of the rock being thrown from the inside, leaving damage on the OUTSIDE of the shutter?

The weather is on record in the court transcripts for anyone that cares to read them. Can anyone point out the puddles in the photos? How about the video? Even a small puddle? Can anyone show me a couple considering it rained so hard?

Then the final fall back point of AK lying. What about the serious lies of the prosecution? Which by the way they are NOT allowed to do in court, contrary to what has been stated here.

 

[Allusonz]

If Laura and Filomina are not sloppy college students, they are messier adults and drug abusers that sleep around with boyfriends (plural)?

That is how some have chosen to judge AK yet it is not applicable to anyone else? Thank you for admitting that the standards being held to AK are different than those of others. I personally like to actually meet the individual and make my own opinions. I don't like to make judgments based on false media reporting.

 

[Allusonz]

Why are we using hypotheticals that weren't the case for the murder night?

NO I DO NOT believe the climber has even demonstrated the climb can be done freely. Why would I speculate whether he can get in through an open window?

This entire case is based on far too many hypotheticals!!

 

[Katody]

Since when do nine pound rocks bounce 8 feet to the left after penetrating a shutter, a window and a shutter ... or even a window and then a shutter? Gravity plays a part with nine pound rocks.

Where does the 8 feet come from? Could you share your sources? I'm just looking at a crime scene photo and the rock is directly under the window. It bounced maybe a foot or two, just like in Pasquali's experiment.

Maybe this is something the accident reconstructionist can answer: what trajectory did the nine pound rock take as it passed through the glass, crashed into the shutter and landed under the desk? If that was the natural trajectory, why didn't all the glass also land under the desk?

If the rock was thrown from outside the cottage, hitting the glass just before knocking the shutter open, the glass should have fallen in a line on the floor in the interior of the room. Did that happen?

I can understand it's counterintuitive, there are lot's of Newtonian effects involved. Fortunately we have the reenactment performed by the defence expert Pasuali, that gave the same glass distribution that the actual break-in.

 

[otto]

I believe that after this many years of discussing this case, that is the first time I have ever seen PLE referred to as the PL EXCUSE.

A lawyer representing a deceased person has much higher ethical standards than the press.

Exactly. Thank you for making my point that DNA cannot be seen with the naked eye.

Do you have a cite that this is a propaganda film? What about the previous re-inactments? Most importantly, where is the re-inactment of the rock being thrown from the inside, leaving damage on the OUTSIDE of the shutter?

The weather is on record in the court transcripts for anyone that cares to read them. Can anyone point out the puddles in the photos? How about the video? Even a small puddle? Can anyone show me a couple considering it rained so hard?

Then the final fall back point of AK lying. What about the serious lies of the prosecution? Which by the way they are NOT allowed to do in court....

1. I don't speak acronym because I know that I'm not a mind reader. What is PLE in context?
   
2. A party to the criminal act is afforded the same respect as all other officers of the court. The media is expected to report trial progress, not gruesome details.
   
3. Obviously DNA cannot be seen with the naked eye. It's specks of dust. DNA gets caught on something, it's detected, analysed and, depending on the country (UK, IT, US), it's either an almost absolute fact or an extremely strong possibility. The DNA on the knife is the latter, the DNA on the clasp is the former.
   
4. I have the opinion that it is a propaganda film because the dialogue is that it's possible to scale the wall without the newly installed bars, but the activity uses the newly installed bars. The statement is not supported by the activity. That's a problem in terms of making a point because, in this case, the activity contradicts the statement.
   
5. The weather at the time the murder was discovered is not in question. The evidence suggests, per the prosecution Nov 2013, is that it rained.
   
6. Who lied in court during the trial?

 

[otto]

That is how some have chosen to judge AK yet it is not applicable to anyone else? Thank you for admitting that the standards being held to AK are different than those of others. I personally like to actually meet the individual and make my own opinions. I don't like to make judgments based on false media reporting.

That is not how anyone has chosen to Judge Knox. That is how Laura and Filomina were described upthread. I was pointing out that Laura and Filomina were not as described in the upthread remark.

Don't thank me, it appears to be a misunderstanding.

False media reporting began as soon as Edda Mellas landed in Italy. A PR Firm was lined up for years to come, and is still active on behalf of Knox today.

 

[MichaelSmith]

1. I don't speak acronym because I know that I'm not a mind reader. What is PLE in context?
   
2. A party to the criminal act is afforded the same respect as all other officers of the court. The media is expected to report trial progress, not gruesome details.
   
3. Obviously DNA cannot be seen with the naked eye. It's specks of dust. DNA gets caught on something, it's detected, analysed and, depending on the country (UK, IT, US), it's either an almost absolute fact or an extremely strong possibility. The DNA on the knife is the latter, the DNA on the clasp is the former.
   
4. I have the opinion that it is a propaganda film because the dialogue is that it's possible to scale the wall without the newly installed bars, but the activity uses the newly installed bars. The statement is not supported by the activity. That's a problem in terms of making a point because, in this case, the activity contradicts the statement.
   
5. The weather at the time the murder was discovered is not in question. The evidence suggests, per the prosecution Nov 2013, is that it rained.
   
6. Who lied in court during the trial?

DNA is specks of dust? Really?

It gets caught on something? Seriously?

 

[otto]

This entire case is based on far too many hypotheticals!!

Exactly! What if we shrink Guede's footprint, will it fit the bloody print on the bath mat? What if we pretend that Meredith had dinner at Sollecito's apartment? What if we get so stoned that we don't remember anything in the morning? What if we pretend that legal professionals are college students and view their home as a one strum rock band, drug pad? I don't think that's what Laura, Meredith, or Filomina had in mind for their home in Perugia.

Filomina's bedroom wasn't tossed for theft - another hypothetical. The jewellery in the drawer was not stolen. Instead, her clothes were pulled off the shelves onto the floor. Nothing was stolen. Fact of the case: broken glass from the window was found on top of that clothing that was pulled off the shelves, and computer that was tossed onto the floor (not stolen).

Was Guede, the women's clothing tosser, in Filomina's bedroom, but he, the experienced thief, forgot to open the drawer, or did he open the drawer and decide that jewellery was too difficult to sell?

 

[Sigh Sister]

1. I don't speak acronym because I know that I'm not a mind reader. What is PLE in context?
   
2. A party to the criminal act is afforded the same respect as all other officers of the court. The media is expected to report trial progress, not gruesome details.
   
3. Obviously DNA cannot be seen with the naked eye. It's specks of dust. DNA gets caught on something, it's detected, analysed and, depending on the country (UK, IT, US), it's either an almost absolute fact or an extremely strong possibility. The DNA on the knife is the latter, the DNA on the clasp is the former.
   
4. I have the opinion that it is a propaganda film because the dialogue is that it's possible to scale the wall without the newly installed bars, but the activity uses the newly installed bars. The statement is not supported by the activity. That's a problem in terms of making a point because, in this case, the activity contradicts the statement.
   
5. The weather at the time the murder was discovered is not in question. The evidence suggests, per the prosecution Nov 2013, is that it rained.
   
6. Who lied in court during the trial?

In the last thread,I provided links from an independent source regarding the weather as you had requested. It did not rain.

 

[otto]

DNA is specks of dust? Really?

It gets caught on something? Seriously?

How do you suppose that Knox's DNA got caught in Meredith's blood in Filomina's bedroom?

How do you suppose that Sollecito's DNA got caught on Meredith's bra clasp?

How do you suppose that Meredith's exact DNA was caught in a grove on the knife?

 

[DerKritiker2011]

If the rock was thrown from outside the cottage, hitting the glass just before knocking the shutter open, the glass should have fallen in a line on the floor in the interior of the room. Did that happen?

The shutters were not completly closed. In this case enough glass was spred in the room.

Is there any reason why Knox and Sollecito would not have thrown the rock from outside the cottage?

You don't understand the fundamentals of a constitutional state. The throw must be proven by the prosecution. Also a simulation must be applied by the prosecution.