Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#8

[Sigh Sister]

Exactly! What if we shrink Guede's footprint, will it fit the bloody print on the bath mat? What if we pretend that Meredith had dinner at Sollecito's apartment? What if we get so stoned that we don't remember anything in the morning? What if we pretend that legal professionals are college students and view their home as a one strum rock band, drug pad? I don't think that's what Laura, Meredith, or Filomina had in mind for their home in Perugia.

Filomina's bedroom wasn't tossed for theft - another hypothetical. The jewellery in the drawer was not stolen. Instead, her clothes were pulled off the shelves onto the floor. Nothing was stolen. Fact of the case: broken glass from the window was found on top of that clothing that was pulled off the shelves, and computer that was tossed onto the floor (not stolen).

Was Guede, the women's clothing tosser, in Filomina's bedroom, but he, the experienced thief, forgot to open the drawer, or did he open the drawer and decide that jewellery was too difficult to sell?

A fact: there is a piece of imbedded glass on the outside surface of the inner shutter as well as a mark where the rock hit. Explanation?

Also, crime scene photos show a few tiny pieces of what could be glass on a few pieces of clothes. He easily could have stepped on the clothes transferring these few tiny pieces. To me, it sounds like you are trying to suggest that there were larger shards of glass all over the clothes. The photos do not show this. The pictures do show larger shards extending all the way to the blue throw rug. Did Amanda and Raffaele pick up all those shards of glass and place them there?

 

[MichaelSmith]

How do you suppose that Knox's DNA got caught in Meredith's blood in Filomina's bedroom?

How do you suppose that Sollecito's DNA got caught on Meredith's bra clasp?

How do you suppose that Meredith's exact DNA was caught in a grove on the knife?

Do you believe DNA is specks of dust that gets caught on something?

This is what you wrote

It's specks of dust. DNA gets caught on something

 

[Myvice]

He was not looking for a window easier or harder to break in, the house was not chosen at random. He went specifically there for a reason, and it wasn't to steal, so he addressed the challenges presented by those specific windows. He is a young athletic guy, an avid basketball player and a known burgler. Why is hard to believe that could do this?

Other windows in the town being harder or easier is irrelevant.

So you think he went there for the purpose of killing Merideth?

What in his MO leads you to that thinking? Because of a past burglary?

Some of the assumptions being made without substantiation leave me in awe.

 

[Myvice]

I've checked out weatherunderground and another weather station and I found that the weather stations are located at a distance from Perugia. I think it is possible that due to the different altitudes and size within the city it's possible it rained in some parts of the city and not others.

I believe it is in testimony that it had rained that day so I will go with that since I don't think it was challenged.

 

[Katody]

I believe it is in testimony that it had rained that day so I will go with that since I don't think it was challenged.

Is your belief supported by the actual testimony? Could you give the quote or at least date of the court hearing and the name of the witness?

The only witness suggesting there was rain on the 1st of November was Hekuran Kokomani, he wasn't sure about the date however (to put it mildly).

Massei and Micheli mention meteorological report deposited by the defence that placed further doubt on Kokomani's bizarre account.
Massei in fact had to write that it rained on the 30th of October, because he had no testimony confirming rain on the 1st.

To sum up:
1. Meteo report that is in the case file says no rain on November 1.
2. There are no witnesses testifying about rain on that day.
3. It's moot anyway, because the argument that rain would somehow disprove the very easy climb is void without any kind of experiment exemplifying it from the prosecution side. It's just empty words.

 

[otto]

In the last thread,I provided links from an independent source regarding the weather as you had requested. It did not rain.

From media source reporting on the trial:

November 25, 2013
"Curatolo è sicuro del suo ricordo e non basta dire che è un tossico per svalutarne la testimonianza - prosegue Crini - e il fatto che confonda una data con un'altra non è fondato, perché ha fatto confusione con la sera di Halloween, ma il ricordo è preciso per il fatto che ricorda come in quella sera (tra il 1 e il 2 novembre 2007) pioveva e in effetti pioveva la sera del delitto".

"Curatolo is sure of his memory and not enough to say that it is a toxic to devalue the testimony - Crini continues - and the fact that confuse a date with another is not well founded, because he mixed up the night of Halloween, but the memory is correct for the fact that remembers how in the evening (between 1 and 2 November 2007) it was raining and in fact it was raining the night of the murder. "

http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cro...eredith-processo-accusa-sollecito-crini.shtml

Duplicate post from November 25 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10004392&highlight=rain#post10004392

 

[Katody]

From media source reporting on the trial:

November 25, 2013
"Curatolo è sicuro del suo ricordo e non basta dire che è un tossico per svalutarne la testimonianza - prosegue Crini - e il fatto che confonda una data con un'altra non è fondato, perché ha fatto confusione con la sera di Halloween, ma il ricordo è preciso per il fatto che ricorda come in quella sera (tra il 1 e il 2 novembre 2007) pioveva e in effetti pioveva la sera del delitto".

"Curatolo is sure of his memory and not enough to say that it is a toxic to devalue the testimony - Crini continues - and the fact that confuse a date with another is not well founded, because he mixed up the night of Halloween, but the memory is correct for the fact that remembers how in the evening (between 1 and 2 November 2007) it was raining and in fact it was raining the night of the murder. "

http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cro...eredith-processo-accusa-sollecito-crini.shtml

Duplicate post from November 25 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10004392&highlight=rain#post10004392

Here's full transcript of Curatolo's testimony:
http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Trascrizioni-2009-Mar-28-Curatolo-Giofreddi-Aiello-Kokomani.pdf

He doesn't mention rain at all. He doesn't say it was raining in the evening or night of November 1.
(He does say he was relaxing on a park bench reading a newspaper which would indicate no rain).

I'd say the court transcripts trumps over your second hand media account. <modsnip>

 

[otto]

Here's full transcript of Curatolo's testimony:
http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Trascrizioni-2009-Mar-28-Curatolo-Giofreddi-Aiello-Kokomani.pdf

He doesn't mention rain at all. He doesn't say it was raining in the evening or night of November 1.
(He does say he was relaxing on a park bench reading a newspaper which would indicate no rain).

I'd say the court transcripts trumps over your second hand media account. Can we move on now?

The appeal prosecutor state would not state that it was raining on the night of the murder if it wasn't true.

 

[Katody]

Many points may have been disproven in the minds of some people. Others still have questions.

I've always been told that when someone tries to use ridicule and intimidation in their argument it's a sign of weakness in their position. JMO

Myvice, Here's a post I took time to compose specially because you expressed interest:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10029966&postcount=110

I believe you may have missed it.

 

[Katody]

Now this prosecutor is a liar because he said that it rained on the night of the murder? Forums, regional weather history websites, and one Italian transcript from one interview with one witness do not negate the facts of the case.

I only said humans make mistakes. You're not reading my posts carefully, even when I try to keep them very succinct.

According to the facts of the case presented by the prosecution, it was raining on the night of the murder.

What facts? You just gave a newspaper snippet, that clearly is in conflict with actual witness statements and court's motivation reports.

:facepalm:

ETA:

In the newspaper quote Crini is talking about Curatolo, that's why I linked to his testimony. It's not just some interview with some witness. It's the interview that Crini's supposedly basing his claim on. I believe Crini might have mixed Curatolo with Kokomani, who was the only witness mentioning rain. Kokomani was dismissed as unreliable by every court.

 

[otto]

I only said humans make mistakes. You're not reading my posts carefully, even when I try to keep them very succinct.



What facts? You just gave a newspaper snippet, that clearly is in conflict with actual witness statements and court's motivation reports.

:facepalm:

This prosecutor is mistaken, and the other one was a liar?

Could you please point out where, in the linked transcript, the weather is discussed?

 

[Katody]

Could you please point out where, in the linked transcript, the weather is discussed?

LOL, I'm afraid you got it backwards. You claim the witness said it was raining, you provide a quote. I already directed you to Curatolo's testimony.

 

[Myvice]

Myvice, Here's a post I took time to compose specially because you expressed interest:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10029966&postcount=110

I believe you may have missed it.

Yes, thanks for the photo. I hadn't seen that particular one. Would you mind sharing the link where you found it? There may be more information or photos there that I'm unaware of.

 

[otto]

LOL, I'm afraid you got it backwards. You claim the witness said it was raining, you provide a quote. I already directed you to Curatolo's testimony.

Perhaps there has been some confusion. I provided a media link quoting the prosecutor where he states that it rained on the night of the murder. In response, a transcript was linked and the implication is that the transcript contradicts the prosecutor's statement.

Could you please identify the weather discussion in the transcript that contradicts the prosecutor's statement.

 

[Katody]

Yes, thanks for the photo. I hadn't seen that particular one. Would you mind sharing the link where you found it? There may be more information or photos there that I'm unaware of.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.com/PDF-Files.html

Under Crime Scene Photos are two large archive files to download.

They contain few hundred full resolution original crime scene photos, with times and dates.

There are also videos from the inspections under Crime Scene Videos.

 

[Katody]

Perhaps there has been some confusion. I provided a media link quoting the prosecutor where he states that it rained on the night of the murder. In response, a transcript was linked and the implication is that the transcript contradicts the prosecutor's statement.

There is confusion.
The media piece you provided has Crini claiming Curatolo said it was raining.

That's why I linked Curatolo's testimony. He doesn't say anything like this.

I also reviewed the motivation reports and appeals.
Galati doesn't mention it. SC doesn't mention it. Massei needs evidence of rain and best he has is the weather report submitted by defence saying it rained on the 30th. Not only Curatolo but no witness ever testified it rained on the night of the murder.

 

[otto]

There is confusion.
The media piece you provided has Crini claiming Curatolo said it was raining.

That's why I linked Curatolo's testimony. He doesn't say anything like this.

I also reviewed the motivation reports and appeals.
Galati doesn't mention it. SC doesn't mention it. Massei needs evidence of rain and best he has is the weather report submitted by defence saying it rained on the 30th. Not only Curatolo but no witness ever testified it rained on the night of the murder.

The prosecutor does not say, that based on witness testimony, it rained. The prosecutor doesn't need anyone to testify about the weather. The weather is not debatable. He states that the witness remembers the facts of the evening correctly. He also states that it rained on the night of the murder.

What the prosecutor says is: "but the memory is correct for the fact that he remembered how in the evening (between 1 and 2 November 2007) it was raining and in fact it was raining the night of the murder"

http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cro...eredith-processo-accusa-sollecito-crini.shtml

 

[Katody]

The prosecutor does not say, that based on witness testimony, it rained. The prosecutor doesn't need anyone to testify about the weather. The weather is not debatable. He states that the witness remembers the facts of the evening correctly. He also states that it rained on the night of the murder.

What the prosecutor says is: "but the memory is correct for the fact that he remembered how in the evening (between 1 and 2 November 2007) it was raining and in fact it was raining the night of the murder"

http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cro...eredith-processo-accusa-sollecito-crini.shtml

Sigh. I have no idea what you are trying to convey now.

But let's do it properly. Don't bother with the confused media reports. Here's the actual courtroom transcript of Crini's rambling:

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Give me a quote of what you want to discuss, then we'll discuss.

Cursory glance at Crini's closing arguments tells me he's saying the exact opposite of what you're arguing but maybe I missed something. So give me a quote from the transcript and we'll discuss it.

 

[otto]

Sigh. I have no idea what you are trying to convey now.

But let's do it properly. Don't bother with the confused media reports. Here's the actual courtroom transcript of Crini's rambling:

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Give me a quote of what you want to discuss, then we'll discuss.

Cursory glance at Crini's closing arguments tells me he's saying the exact opposite of what you're arguing but maybe I missed something. So give me a quote from the transcript and we'll discuss it.

I'm not interested in using Knox's blog as a resource, preferring instead to rely on objective journalist reports about the trial progress.

 

[whoanellie]

Sigh. I have no idea what you are trying to convey now.

But let's do it properly. Don't bother with the confused media reports. Here's the actual courtroom transcript of Crini's rambling:

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Give me a quote of what you want to discuss, then we'll discuss.

Cursory glance at Crini's closing arguments tells me he's saying the exact opposite of what you're arguing but maybe I missed something. So give me a quote from the transcript and we'll discuss it.

I don't know any Italian, but it looks to me like the documents you link to on Amanda's blog are, in fact, official court documents. How remarkable is it that a defendant would want to publicize the closing argument of the prosecutor in their case.

<modsnip>