Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#9

[aa9511]

As usual, what he wrote has been taken out of context and everything else he said completely ignored. That's cheery picking and confirmation bias.

He was being sarcastic and couldn't believe it.....a state of disbelief.

Ok, out of all the things in his house, he picks "rags" to use in his sarcastic example?

 

[otto]

Yeah, see, in those examples and also in Amanda's writings, it seems they use the joints as an excuse for their "I don't remember" lines. Like the whole night was, conveniently, some kind of haze for them. Even though, in the guilty scenario, they had enough sense to clean up the cottage and then go and clean up the rags and possibly the knife with bleach, clean themselves off, etc..

Also, I thought joints were supposed to relax people, I have not heard of people going on violent rages after smoking weed. That is more like I've heard cases with crack cocaine, etc.. Like I guess, whatever the class of drugs is called that hype you up.

SMK linked a recent study completed in Germany (plus Amsterdam) where age 14 -24 year olds were studied in relation to drug use and psychotic episodes. It was just in the last couple of days, but it leaves little doubt that studies show that prolonged habitual pot use can result in a form mild of intermittent psychosis.

 

[MichaelSmith]

The amateur armchair psychoanalysing reminds me of Giobbi who didn't need evidence to determine guilt. He said...

"This has been an investigation of a truly psychological nature"

Amanda Knox - Behavior = Guilt/Giobbi:"Case Closed" - YouTube

 

[MichaelSmith]

Ok, out of all the things in his house, he picks "rags" to use in his sarcastic example?

What does it matter? No rags were found in his apartment with Meredith's blood or anywhere else.

 

[otto]

What does it matter? No rags were found in his apartment with Meredith's blood or anywhere else.

Why would he say anything about rags having evidence of something? Doesn't that sound a bit "out of the blue"? ... especially given that there is some evidence of a clean-up. Per the lawyer today, Sollecito doesn't fly either, but there is only half a foot print belonging to him.

 

[otto]

Ok, I don't know how to re-post the paragraphs you had in your quote. But I wanted to say a couple of things I noticed:

- why does he mention Meredith's jeans? that seems strange comment, like he says it for some reason.

- why does he say Meredith left "quickly"? Most of the time, people just say so-and-so left at around whatever time. Not, they left quickly or they left slowly.

- why does he mention that he was in "tranquility" and so didn't want to go out that night, and he had no plans of going out, as it was cold? That seems like extra information. Like, he's over-compensating because he knows that in reality, they actually did go out.

Those were just a few things I noticed.

The way he writes is very odd. Her too.

The jeans! That is such an odd thing to mention, given that we know he was with the new love of his life: Knox. He was already admiring Meredith ... amused at the thought of her wearing her former boyfriend's jeans. He's so unaffected by her murder that he's musing about the jeans she wore the night she was murdered.

Apparently Meredith had little to say to either of them and left quickly after showering. This stand offish relationship between Meredith and Amanda is also described by friends and family. Keep in mind that Knox had tried to contact Meredith several times on Halloween, presumably looking for the party. They had dressed up. Knox painted her face like a cat (Sollecito's diary) - remember the cat burglar Halloween costume in Seattle, he painted his face as abstract art (Sollecito's diary). They went out in search of a party, but by 10 PM they returned to his apartment. Meredith went to several parties and arrived home at about 6 AM, but she did not invite Knox. She did not respond to Knox, and from the sounds of it, when she saw Knox the following afternoon, after she showered, she had nothing to say to her.

Tranquillity seems to be a common word in Italy. I think it means peaceful, feeling quiet, relaxed. He's saying that he smoked pot all day and relaxed at home. He also made a fish dinner, had a water spill under the sink while he was washing dinner dishes, before his father called at 8:42. The movie Amelie ran out at 9:11 without any human interaction. The next human interaction on the computer was at 5:32 AM, about 30 minutes before Sollecito's phone was turned on.

This is speculation ... trying to fit the puzzle pieces together ... neither fact nor opinion ... puzzle

 

[otto]

Let's have a look at what he actually wrote.

Quote:
She [translator’s note: Amanda] played the guitar while Meredith was getting ready to go out. An amusing thing I remember is that Meredith was wearing a pair of men’s jeans which belonged to her ex‐boyfriend in England. She left quickly around 4 pm, not saying where she was going.


I don't see anything out of the ordinary in that.

Sollecito arrived around 2 PM. He made a pasta lunch. Meredith got up either before or after he arrived and had a shower. She also went to the laundry. She dressed and left quickly at about 4 without telling Knox or Sollecito where she was going. The pair sat there, in the living room/kitchen, knowing that they had texted Meredith several times the previous evening (Halloween Party Night) and she ignored them. When she was in the kitchen, per Sollecito, she says nothing by way of apology for ignoring the text/calls and apparently there is no follow up about what they did the previous evening ... as one might expect from roommates and friends.

Within a week of Meredith's murder, Sollecito muses over the pants she was wearing on the night of her murder. Apparently, although Meredith said nothing about her plans and left quickly, he knew her jeans originally belonged to her ex-boyfriend in England. That's quite a story that he knows about the jeans ... given that he had only met her a couple of times!

In her book, does Knox tell us what her interactions with Meredith were on the last day they were together? Did Meredith get up before Sollecito arrived? Did Knox and Meredith talk about the night before and, if so, what was the tone of the conversation? Did Meredith explain why she ignored the texts/calls? Does Knox say anything about it? Perhaps that would give context to Sollecito's unusual remark about Meredith's clothing.

Do either of them tell us why Sollecito knew all about Meredith's jeans? Did Meredith blurt this out as she was quickly leaving without telling them where she was going? Did she blurt this out either time he met her? Did Knox tell Sollecito about Meredith's ex-boyfriend's jeans? Why would that come up between two star struck lovers with their entire 20 years old lives to compare and learn of?

That almost as weird as the part in her book (discussed and referenced a few weeks ago) about how she liked to have staring contests with random European hook-ups.

 

[Harmony 2]

Posts with no url links were removed... There have been plenty of reminders to add links to facts, documents, attachments, etc.

FYI articles pertinent to today's court proceedings have been added to the media thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10050853&posted=1#post10050853

 

[DerKritiker2011]

The EHRC cannot tell Italy to abolish a law.

That's not correct. Doesn't fit a law with the ECHR Italy have to change it because they have promissed it with the signing of the ECHR. The promise is a part of the ECHR.

We will see.

 

[otto]

I'm trying to visualize what went on in the cottage after Sollecito arrived at 2 PM and Meredith left at 4 PM. Maybe there's a good reason that he noticed Meredith's jeans and knew that they were from her ex-boyfriend.

 

[otto]

That's not correct. Doesn't fit a law with the ECHR Italy have to change it because they have promissed it with the signing of the ECHR. The promise is a part of the ECHR.

We will see.

So Knox is trying to have a law abolished? Does that mean that there was no human right violation when her November 6 and 7 voluntary statements were used to convict and imprison her for falsely accusing an innocent man of murder, and then confirming that statement three time?

Knox is guilty of that criminal act. I don't think it's a European Human Right to falsely accuse innocent people of murder, so why would that law be removed from the books?

 

[DerKritiker2011]

Knox is guilty of that criminal act. I don't think it's a European Human Right to falsely accuse innocent people of murder, so why would that law be removed from the books?

I think she was manipulated and this doesn't fit with article 6 of ECHR (my opinion). Whe have to wait for the outcome of the ECHR.

 

[Tugela]

While you find it strange, apparently "strangers" did go, at the Uni of Leeds, and in Perugia. So now does that make sense, that strangers would go, but not people who knew her? The strangers found it in their hearts somewhere to take the time and go there, but her roomates couldn't?

Strangers or near strangers go to those sorts of events because they are a sort of emotional vampire. They feed off grief and derive a perverse sort of gratification from it. Unless you have real personal connection with the person being memorialized, I would consider it inappropriate and extremely disrespectful to attend those sorts of events and pretend that you are sad. It is the same as going to a stranger's (or someone you barely know) wedding uninvited, most people would never dream of doing that, but many are perfectly happy to intrude on someone's grief, they feel entitled to do it.

I really don't understand that. It is just a lack of basic humanity IMO.

 

[otto]

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 29s
Processo Meredith, si discute se ammettere la lettura della mail di Amanda Knox #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Processo Meredith, viene letta una mail di Amanda Knox

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 6m
Processo Meredith, Amanda: "Sono stata sottoposta a interrogatorio illegale, mi hanno estorto una confessione falsa" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 5m
Processo Meredith, Amanda: "Non ho ucciso, stuprato, rubato, non ero sulla scena del delitto" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 8m
Processo Meredith, la mail di Amanda: "Sono innocente, ma non sono al processo perché ho paura" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 48s
Processo Meredith, Amanda alla corte: "Sono innocente, mettete fine a questa enorme ingiustizia" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Processo Meredith, Amanda: "Non sono il mostro che è stato dipinto in questi anni" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 39s
Processo Meredith: Amanda: "Non conoscevo Rudy Guede" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 1m
Processo Meredith, Amanda: "Non sono un'assassina, accusa e parte civile sbagliano, vogliono una condanna senza prove" #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 6m
Processo Meredith, Amanda: "Io e Meredith siamo sempre state amiche, non abbiamo mai litigato" #meredithnazione

Starting now with lawyer Ghirga for Knox

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
Processo Meredith, comincia l'arringa di Luciano Ghirga, difensore di Amanda Knox #meredithnazione

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 2m
ProcessoMeredith, Amanda:"Sono innocente, ma non sono al processo perché ho paura che la veemenza dell'accusa vi convinca"

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 21m
Meredith process, an email is read by Amanda Knox

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 28m
Meredith process, discussion on whether to admit reading the mail of Amanda Knox

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 25m
Amanda's email: “I'm innocent, but I am not [takng part] in the trial because I'm afraid”

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 23m
Amanda{:"I have not killed, raped, robbed, I was not at the scene of the crime"

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 23m
Amanda:"I was subjected to an illegal interrogation, they extorted a false confession from me"

La Nazione ‏@qn_lanazione 23m
Amanda:"Meredith and I have always been friends, we never had a fight"

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione

 

[otto]

That's an interesting start to the day!

 

[otto]

La Nazione @qn_lanazione 21m
Process Meredith, Amanda: "I'm not a killer, the prosecution and civil parties are wrong, they want a conviction without evidence"

Latest tweet from La Nazione:

The Nation @ qn_lanazione 3m
Process Meredith, lawyer Ghirga (Knox): "The knife found at Sollecito's house is not the murder weapon"

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione

 

[otto]

I guess the court is processing a verbal statement or email from Knox, presumably accepted as a spontaneous statement - similar to what Sollecito recently did during his vacation in Italy from the Dominican Republic, and what Knox has done in the past, albeit in court.

 

[Tugela]

Sollecito arrived around 2 PM. He made a pasta lunch. Meredith got up either before or after he arrived and had a shower. She also went to the laundry. She dressed and left quickly at about 4 without telling Knox or Sollecito where she was going. The pair sat there, in the living room/kitchen, knowing that they had texted Meredith several times the previous evening (Halloween Party Night) and she ignored them. When she was in the kitchen, per Sollecito, she says nothing by way of apology for ignoring the text/calls and apparently there is no follow up about what they did the previous evening ... as one might expect from roommates and friends.

Within a week of Meredith's murder, Sollecito muses over the pants she was wearing on the night of her murder. Apparently, although Meredith said nothing about her plans and left quickly, he knew her jeans originally belonged to her ex-boyfriend in England. That's quite a story that he knows about the jeans ... given that he had only met her a couple of times!

In her book, does Knox tell us what her interactions with Meredith were on the last day they were together? Did Meredith get up before Sollecito arrived? Did Knox and Meredith talk about the night before and, if so, what was the tone of the conversation? Did Meredith explain why she ignored the texts/calls? Does Knox say anything about it? Perhaps that would give context to Sollecito's unusual remark about Meredith's clothing.

Do either of them tell us why Sollecito knew all about Meredith's jeans? Did Meredith blurt this out as she was quickly leaving without telling them where she was going? Did she blurt this out either time he met her? Did Knox tell Sollecito about Meredith's ex-boyfriend's jeans? Why would that come up between two star struck lovers with their entire 20 years old lives to compare and learn of?

That almost as weird as the part in her book (discussed and referenced a few weeks ago) about how she liked to have staring contests with random European hook-ups.

I am guessing you don't have too many friends or room mates. Usually if you send someone a text/s and they don't respond, it isn't a big deal and doesn't require extensive explanation. Usually it doesn't require any explanation at all. You assume they are busy, and move on. And if you did ask at some later point, it would be unremarkable, a word or two, and that is the sort of remark you would not recall clearly or at all. People only remember things that are unusual or extraordinary. The mundane is fleeting.

The big issue you are having in understanding why they would not have a clear recollection of these sorts of conversations is that they would not have known that she was going to be murdered and that years later they would have to provide detailed and accurate accounts of all conversations to an avatar called Otto to prove they had nothing to do with it. Put yourself in their position - can you honestly say that you accurately remember all conversations you had yesterday, let alone years ago? I don't know if you have ever been to a meeting at work, but usually at those things people have trouble remembering accurately what was said less than an hour before let alone anything longer than that.

Wearing someone else's clothes is unusual. If she had mentioned it in passing on one of the occasions they had met, it is the sort of thing that might stick in someone's mind. So, he might notice that, but not other things. There is nothing sinister in that.

 

[otto]

I am guessing you don't have too many friends or room mates. Usually if you send someone a text/s and they don't respond, it isn't a big deal and doesn't require extensive explanation. Usually it doesn't require any explanation at all. You assume they are busy, and move on. And if you did ask at some later point, it would be unremarkable, a word or two, and that is the sort of remark you would not recall clearly or at all. People only remember things that are unusual or extraordinary. The mundane is fleeting.

The big issue you are having in understanding why they would not have a clear recollection of these sorts of conversations is that they would not have known that she was going to be murdered and that years later they would have to provide detailed and accurate accounts of all conversations to an avatar called Otto to prove they had nothing to do with it. Put yourself in their position - can you honestly say that you accurately remember all conversations you had yesterday, let alone years ago? I don't know if you have ever been to a meeting at work, but usually at those things people have trouble remembering accurately what was said less than an hour before let alone anything longer than that.

Wearing someone else's clothes is unusual. If she had mentioned it in passing on one of the occasions they had met, it is the sort of thing that might stick in someone's mind. So, he might notice that, but not other things. There is nothing sinister in that.

Knox didn't make just one phone call to Meredith on Halloween evening. I believe it was three phone calls. Meredith did not respond to any of the phone calls from Knox. Knox's Halloween, where she and Sollecito were dolled up in face paint, ended for the night at Sollecito's apartment by 10 PM. Meredith attended four parties until 6 AM.

Biggest Issue? I suppose that would be level of dishonesty between the pair.

Do you think that Meredith just blurted out to Sollecito that she was wearing jeans that used to belong to her ex-boyfriend in England? She wasn't wearing someone else's clothes. Her ex-boyfriend gave them to her. He would only do that if they looked really good on her ... and they probably did. (note: this is an assumption, as I don't believe men simply lose their jeans to their girlfriend, they let them go)

It's not sinister, it's weird that Sollecito knew this intimate detail about Meredith even though they had only met twice. Knox definitely seems the type to be far too intimate far too fast, but not Meredith.

Why would she tell Sollecito that she was wearing pants that were a gift from her boyfriend, yet when Sollecito last saw her, she left quickly and didn't tell say where she was going.

I think he said that "she didn't say where she was going" to imply that she may have encountered her fate any time after she left at 4 ... widen the time frame of the murder. Did he know that she was meeting friends for dinner?

 

[otto]

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Raffaele_Sollecito's_Prison_Diary_(Translated)

Original
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/download/file.php?id=2333&sid=1272768dcd0a50cd7f520398d9754dee