Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#9

[Katody]

What do you mean? Should the lawyer have introduced this concern in the media rather than a courtroom?

The revolting and mendacious suggestion that Amanda collects money in Meredith's name had no place in the courtroom nor outside.

 

[Katody]

BBM: Granted, how could anyone not find these words compelling; evocative as they are of Ryan Ferguson's own plea, and resonating with spirit and intuition.

HOWEVER: I don't want to be duped by a PR campaign, if such exists in this case to the extent I've been told it has.

If these assertions are true, the Supreme Court ought to have thrown the case out in 2007. I know Halkides says the SC seems to favor the prosecution experts. But why? Is it prejudice, politics, or the truth? :waitasec:

I find them compelling because they are logical, reasonable and correctly represent the state of forensic evidence.

 

[redheadedgal]

Yes, steel wool even, which can leave streaks of rust even on stainless.

yes, the streaking seen on RS's knife is not unusual for stainless steel knives: (clicking on the photo will enlarge it)

http://www.jbrucevoyles.com/A56/56303.JPG

 

[otto]

do you have a cite for this? or maybe a link to her alleged remarks so they can be read/seen in context of the entire conversation... as posters wanted to see the "i was there" remarks in context, i think we should examine this allegation the same way...

Context is important. Knox pretends that she was a friend to Meredith.

Have we so quickly forgotten that when Meredith's friend said that she hoped Meredith didn't suffrer, Knox only said "she f-ing bled to death" (Robyn Butterworth). She wrote in her diary, while at the police station on Nov 2, that it didn't seem quite right to say that she could kill for a pizza.

“My daughter was a student with Meredith in Perugia. They went out together on Halloween. When Amanda Knox was asked how she felt on November 2, she said: “S*** happens”, which contrasts rather sharply with the rather contrived way she addressed the Italian court about “my friend Meredith”.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amanda-knox-crying-crocodile-tears-436880

If someone has hours of extra time, they could fill pages with the unfriendly remarks made by Knox, remarks that echo the cruel disregard for others seen recently - such as the refusal to respect the Kercher family wishes unless them met her demands.

 

[Katody]

Amanda posted first excerpt of the translation of Crini's arguments.
Crini talks about Curatolo:

EXCERPTS FROM THE CLOSING ARGUMENTS OF THE PROSECUTOR GENERAL AT THE FLORENCE TRIAL

 

[redheadedgal]

What do you mean? Should the lawyer have introduced this concern in the media rather than a courtroom?

why wait for court? if it was seen as disingenuous and inappropriate, ask amanda to remove it when discovered.

waiting FOR court just makes it all the more hyped/used as character assassination imo.

 

[otto]

The revolting and mendacious suggestion that Amanda collects money in Meredith's name had no place in the courtroom nor outside.

Knox was asked to remove all reference to Meredith from her blog. She refused. She made it clear that she has a personal dislike of the lawyer for Meredith Kercher and that she would not comply with the Kercher family request until the family spoke with her directly.

That speaks to character and that is very relevant in a murder trial. Check with NC and you will see that trials often include days of character assassination of the suspect before evidence is even mentioned.

 

[otto]

why wait for court? if it was seen as disingenuous and inappropriate, ask amanda to remove it when discovered.

waiting FOR court just makes it all the more hyped/used as character assassination imo.

She was asked to remove it. She refused. That refusal is what was mentioned in court. It is relevant because it has revealed, for all to see, how selfishly cruel Knox has been towards "her friend's" family.

 

[aa9511]

The thing that bothers me far more than anything Amanda does on her blog, is being confused about the evidence.

I was just reading John Kercher's book, ( Meredith: Our daughter's murder and the heartbreaking quest for the truth; 2012, Hodder and Stoughton)

and there is a point where he is talking about the police telling him that if luminol shows blood, but no blood was evident to the naked eye, it is a near certainty that a clean up occurred or was attempted. I can see why he became convinced that Knox and Sollecito were involved in his daughter's killing. With the things he was being told by police and legal authorities - such as that his daughter's blood, mixed with Knox's dna, appeared in Filomena's room, and that no traces of Guede were in that room - how could he come to any other conclusion???

Then I hear things from people with far more expertise than I - I have none - who say the luminol traces are not evidence, because they may have been reacting to cleaning agents or fruit juice and the prints and traces may be from prior times. That the crime scene was not staged. That blood droplets in the small bath were probably menstrual, and from prior times.

Halkides is a man respected in his field, so how can I just discount what he says? And C & V - how can they come to such different conclusions from Stefanoni?

It is impossible to overestimate the importance of the mixed blood or DNA or the crime scene simulation: To me, nothing in this case matters as much as whether or not the forensic evidence holds up.

If it does, then I can imagine many scenarios involving Guede, Sollecito, and Knox, which might have unfolded. We all know truth can be stranger than fiction. BUT: If it does not, then none of these scenarios has any real relevance or meaning.

If I were on the jury, I would need to know, beyond a reasonable doubt that:

• a clean-up occurred
• a burglary was simulated/staged
• that dna/blood mixed traces revealed with luminol (in the small bath, Filomena's room ) were legitimate by protocol standards of forensic science
• that Sollecito's footprint is on the bathmat, positively

These things matter FAR more than any behavior on Amanda's part. They are the solid reality of the crime scene. They should not be mere speculation.

Is it too much to ask, in the 21st century, that these things be definitive? If they are, then they are guilty - no matter how sweet they seem. If not, this is simply a waste of time. As I have said time and again, I am just SO frustrated that I cannot determine this. If the convictions are upheld, I want to know whether or not I should be glad of this. Conversely, if they are acquitted, I need to know if this is justice or farce. Just really frustrated :tantrum:

But one also has to just use common sense. For example, fruit juice from WHAT??! I mean, did Amanda and RS stand in some juice somewhere and then go walking around the house? I kind of fear even saying that, because it might give some idea to the supporters of her innocence, who will then legimately claim that it's a possibility that some orange juice or beet juice spilled in the kitchen and their feet got wet in it, that's all. That is the point all of this has come to - that I'm afraid to even get into this discussion because there will be so many possibilites thrown around and pretended like they are actually probable and you know what, probably that one in a million chance just happened to occur on that day. No big deal, right?

 

[redheadedgal]

“My daughter was a student with Meredith in Perugia. They went out together on Halloween. When Amanda Knox was asked how she felt on November 2, she said: “S*** happens”, which contrasts rather sharply with the rather contrived way she addressed the Italian court about “my friend Meredith”.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amanda-knox-crying-crocodile-tears-436880

citing an anonymous source as de facto truth? :floorlaugh:

 

[aa9511]

is the knife super scrubbed or does it have brown residue on it? How can both things be true?

I see the attempt to turn it into a conspiracy theory. But it's not. I honestly see that tint. And I don't know if the knife is super-scrubbed, or maybe the better word for it is "worn." You can see one part that's clearly worn out, and the other part is newer-looking.

The pic is upthread.

 

[SMK]

But one also has to just use common sense. For example, fruit juice from WHAT??! I mean, did Amanda and RS stand in some juice somewhere and then go walking around the house? I kind of fear even saying that, because it might give some idea to the supporters of her innocence, who will then legimately claim that it's a possibility that some orange juice or beet juice spilled in the kitchen and their feet got wet in it, that's all. That is the point all of this has come to - that I'm afraid to even get into this discussion because there will be so many possibilites thrown around and pretended like they are actually probable and you know what, probably that one in a million chance just happened to occur on that day. No big deal, right?

Yes, I see what you mean. It seems a kind of rationalization when you apply common sense.

 

[otto]

Former FBI profiler Robert Ressler: "a psychopathic personality."

"They're manipulators. They tend to con people very well and they wear false faces," he said. "They tend to be able to fool everyone from their families to their friends to society, schools, their community."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/the-question-lingers-in-peterson-case-why/nKfyq/

We had a glimpse of Knox's soul in her refusal to respect the wishes of the Kercher family. Yet, as soon has public pressure has forced her to comply, the public is eager to forget what they know. Has the image of Knox as a 12 year old soccer player been restored, and everyone can continue to pretend that Knox is a good person?

 

[otto]

citing an anonymous source as de facto truth? :floorlaugh:

The statement is not anonymous

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2009/dec/13/big-issue-kercher-knox-murder

 

[quesarita]

I see the attempt to turn it into a conspiracy theory. But it's not. I honestly see that tint. And I don't know if the knife is super-scrubbed, or maybe the better word for it is "worn." You can see one part that's clearly worn out, and the other part is newer-looking.

The pic is upthread.

I agree it looks worn, and like it has been sharpened at some point (along the edge). I could be persuaded that an abrasive or steel wool had been pulled lengthwise along the blade. I do not see how it looks cleaner than other kitchen knives, or as if it had been carefully cleaned.

 

[Katody]

Former FBI profiler Robert Ressler: "a psychopathic personality."

"They're manipulators. They tend to con people very well and they wear false faces," he said. "They tend to be able to fool everyone from their families to their friends to society, schools, their community."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/the-question-lingers-in-peterson-case-why/nKfyq/

We had a glimpse of Knox's soul in her refusal to respect the wishes of the Kercher family. Yet, as soon has public pressure has forced her to comply, the public is eager to forget what they know. Has the image of Knox as a 12 year old soccer player been restored, and everyone can continue to pretend that Knox is a good person?

I don't see a connection between your quote and the refusal to be bullied by Maresca.

I'd say the evaluative comments of the like "everyone can continue to pretend that Knox is a good person" add nothing to the discussion.

Amanda is a good person. She agreed to remove the link despite the fact that the Kerchers who publicly attack her personally and through their lawyer have no right to demand anything from her.

 

[Cappuccino]

Former FBI profiler Robert Ressler: "a psychopathic personality."

"They're manipulators. They tend to con people very well and they wear false faces," he said. "They tend to be able to fool everyone from their families to their friends to society, schools, their community."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/the-question-lingers-in-peterson-case-why/nKfyq/

We had a glimpse of Knox's soul in her refusal to respect the wishes of the Kercher family. Yet, as soon has public pressure has forced her to comply, the public is eager to forget what they know. Has the image of Knox as a 12 year old soccer player been restored, and everyone can continue to pretend that Knox is a good person?

Are you trying to give the false impression that "former FBI profiler Robert Ressler" has described Amanda Knox as a psychopathic personality? Because you must know full well that the article you linked to was about Scott Peterson and made absolutely no mention of Amanda at all.

I think the post you made there was extremely misleading in its wording and I would like to think that was merely a mistake on your part. If it was, I'm sure you'll clarify.

 

[Katody]

Do you have a link for that quote?

I've edited my post. I'm waiting for you answer patiently.

 

[aa9511]

To me, it looks like abrasive scuff marks made from scrubbing.

Yes, you're right that it is abrasive, or worn-out....but what about the tint? That would not have come from scrubbing.

I'm thinking wouldn't blood leave a tint like that, to where the tint would not have come out even with bleach?

I don't know.

Also, would the worn-out part necessarily be from scrubbing/cleaning, or could it have been from when they were using it?

 

[Katody]

I agree it looks worn, and like it has been sharpened at some point (along the edge). I could be persuaded that an abrasive or steel wool had been pulled lengthwise along the blade. I do not see how it looks cleaner than other kitchen knives, or as if it had been carefully cleaned.

Look for the picture of the knife after it has been swabbed (by C&V) to see how much cleaner the swabbed part looks.