Andrea Lyons ~ Tapes and Lectures And RECENT MEDIA

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  • #121
seeing_eye said:
I've thought quite a bit about what Lyon believes (or at least what she maintains she believes). She's against the DP for at least 2 reasons. One is that she thinks everyone should be given the chance for redemption. I'm the first to forgive people for most anything because I know none of us are without faults. But for some deeds there may not be room for redemption, at least as far as the good of society goes. Lyon states an example of a man who does a really heinous deed and stated he has redeemed himself by sending his prison pay to Africa to feed a couple of kids. Well, I think that's well and good that he's doing that, but in my opinion, that does not make up for what he did. I would think that even Hitler did a couple of good deeds in his life, so I wonder if Lyon would think that even he deserved a chance at redemption?

The second reason is that Lyon states that the DP does not reduce violent crimes, and even offers her belief that states that have the DP have a higher crime rate than the states without it. Her reasoning is faulty since we have no idea what is the cause of the crime rates in each state. How do we know that a state with the DP has it for the reason that they do have so much crime, and it's the state's effort to curtail it? How do we know whether or not a state with the DP would have had a much higher crime rate if they had not had it in place? If there are studies that point out the cause of crime rates, why didn't Lyon cite them? But this much I do know: If a serial killer is convicted and executed, the murders he would have committed had he lived have been prevented. And I imagine Lyon would simply say, "just keep him in prison for the rest of his life and he won't be a danger to society." But won't he be a danger to those who live in prison with him? Aren't prison inmates members of society too even though incarcerated?
Click to expand...

You bring up a point I hadn't thought of ... what would a serial killer like Ted Bundy do while in prison ... the potential is there for him to kill again ... inmates AND prison personnel could become victims ... let's face it, a murder who's sentence to LWOP in a state that doesn't have the DP has nothing to lose ...

Ms Lyon states many things as facts that may not be and she interprets statistics to favor her argument .. The more I learn about her, the less I believe what she says ...
 
  • #122
mitzi said:
Red and Green above mine.

Red: Awwww...call the whambulance! Is this where AL starts letting the tears flow? GAH! It's the "poor me" defense. :rolleyes: Cry me a river.

Green: Well, methinks it's about time to start getting to those depositions, instead of stalling, appearing at book signings, speaking at conferences, and teaching the masses at DePaul how to "win" no matter what you have to do, and who you have to do it to. :furious:
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I tend to think Ms Lyon will never be ready for trial ... her philosophy seems to be if you can't win it then drag it out as long as possible
 
  • #123
denjet said:
I tend to think Ms Lyon will never be ready for trial ... her philosophy seems to be if you can't win it then drag it out as long as possible
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I do believe you're right. Her philosophy seems to be (from her actions as well as words) delay, delay, delay. :twocents:
 
  • #124
  • #125
Lyon tells the stories of clients like the one she names Richard Bauman in the book, "a guy who people would say would be the poster child for the death penalty," she said.

The client was on parole for murder at the time of the murder for which he was charged, Lyon said. He was in a gang, having assumed the title, 'enforcer.'

"These are not good facts. This is a double homicide, there were two eyewitnesses, which is definitely one too many," Lyon said, admittedly injecting a bit of "defense lawyer humor."

But the client, Lyon said, became a gang member because "he couldn't bear to watch what we would call now the domestic violence in his home."

hmmm ... poster child for the death penalty but yet not deserving of it? ... He should have at the very least been the poster child for LWOP !!
Unbelievable !
 
  • #126
sleutherontheside said:
I find this so very curious.......


www.andrealyon.com



Is hosted by an Orlando webhost.......

http://betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=2385&domain=andrealyon.com

Her site was established JULY 3, 2008


What a coincidence. I mean....what are the odds of a Chicago high profile death penalty attorney having a webhost in the very town that is the center of the crime of the year??? WOW....
Click to expand...

I suspect that truly is random. The physical location of a webhost is pretty irrelevant. I looked up www.baezlawfirm.com and his technical contacts, etc. are all in Scottsdale, Arizona. Hornsby's webhost is out of San Luis Obispo, CA.
 
  • #127
sleutherontheside said:
Radio interview with AL on WAMC Northeast Public Radio from January 13, 2010.


Intro discusses her record.......19 wins against the DP. Also states that she may be facing her biggest case yet with KC.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/w...e.Roundtable/Andrea.Lyon.-.Angel.of.Death.Row

I have to assume that I'm going to lose the trial because most often you do even if the the defendent isn't guilty, but that's another conversation.

The State wants to kill your client and you can't plead the case for a sentence of imprisonment because that's the position that they've taken and so the trial is really about saving a persons life.

Florida executes a lot of people.


Because the State, inappropriately in my opinion, asked for the DP, the team needed help. There wasn't anyone qualified to try a DP case. I agreed to help them.


"KC actually didn't kill her daughter. We haven't had a trial yet."


If we are unsuccessful then that's the next thing we would do.


Most of the time what the public doesn't know is that when you are talking about a parent killing a child, you are not talking about a 1st degree murder.....you are talking about some form of manslaughter.......discipline gone bad, or hitting child and child hits head.

Pretty much all of Orlando hates her at this point.

I get screamed at. yelled at tripped people don't want to talk to me if they know who I am.

It's extremely difficult to investigate this case properly. Everyone is frightened they will be seen as being on the wrong side of things.


THe kind of pressure on my partners and myself, my investigator, my social worker is.....

This case has to be moved to Southern FL where the saturation is not what it is in Orlando. Anything out of that Southern area is just saturated.

It has to do with the mob mentality since the case began. We have a lot of motions...boths sides have depositions to do. Lot's of litigation to be done before we are ready to try this case.
Click to expand...

This is one thing that really burns me up about this case. They, the defense, keep whining and crying, Oh poor us, we cannot get a fair trial for our client, blah blah blah blah blah, on and on and on it goes...and yet...

There THEY are on EVERY talk show that will have them, spouting out about this case. They do radio interviews, are quoted in print, are ALWAYS on some news show...and the family does the same...and so who is it again that caused this "saturation" that they are so fond of whining about? THEY caused it...When the state requested a gag order to hush down the media circus, who was it again that VEHEMENTLY fought AGAINST a gag order? It was THEM, the defense...so if their IS saturation, then it is because they did a very good job of saturating!

Also, they say that they need to move to another county so she can get a fair trial? Since when does the Today Show NOT air in EVERY county of EVERY city in our fair nation? They have practically LIVED on the Today Show...So they have only themselves to blame for said "saturation" and no matter what county this is heard in is not going to make a darn bit of difference. They could take this case over to Europe and try it and Casey Anthony will STILL be found GUILTY as charged...I wish they would just stop with the whining...I mean, if she is innocent as they say and they have all this evidence that PROVES that, will it not prove it no matter where they present it? UGH!!!:banghead:
 
  • #128
  • #129
  • #130
  • #131
magic-cat said:
This is one thing that really burns me up about this case. They, the defense, keep whining and crying, Oh poor us, we cannot get a fair trial for our client, blah blah blah blah blah, on and on and on it goes...and yet...

There THEY are on EVERY talk show that will have them, spouting out about this case. They do radio interviews, are quoted in print, are ALWAYS on some news show...and the family does the same...and so who is it again that caused this "saturation" that they are so fond of whining about? THEY caused it...When the state requested a gag order to hush down the media circus, who was it again that VEHEMENTLY fought AGAINST a gag order? It was THEM, the defense...so if their IS saturation, then it is because they did a very good job of saturating!

Also, they say that they need to move to another county so she can get a fair trial? Since when does the Today Show NOT air in EVERY county of EVERY city in our fair nation? They have practically LIVED on the Today Show...So they have only themselves to blame for said "saturation" and no matter what county this is heard in is not going to make a darn bit of difference. They could take this case over to Europe and try it and Casey Anthony will STILL be found GUILTY as charged...I wish they would just stop with the whining...I mean, if she is innocent as they say and they have all this evidence that PROVES that, will it not prove it no matter where they present it? UGH!!!:banghead:
Click to expand...

Exactly!!
Besides the A's who will jump in front of any camera that will have them, you have
"Genius Lawyer Goes On National TV To Complain About Media"
and
"Idiot Lawyer Scheduled To Go On National TV To Complain About Media Cancelled When Unable To Complete Sentences"

:crazy:
 
  • #132
magic-cat said:
This is one thing that really burns me up about this case. They, the defense, keep whining and crying, Oh poor us, we cannot get a fair trial for our client, blah blah blah blah blah, on and on and on it goes...and yet...

There THEY are on EVERY talk show that will have them, spouting out about this case. They do radio interviews, are quoted in print, are ALWAYS on some news show...and the family does the same...and so who is it again that caused this "saturation" that they are so fond of whining about? THEY caused it...When the state requested a gag order to hush down the media circus, who was it again that VEHEMENTLY fought AGAINST a gag order? It was THEM, the defense...so if their IS saturation, then it is because they did a very good job of saturating!

Also, they say that they need to move to another county so she can get a fair trial? Since when does the Today Show NOT air in EVERY county of EVERY city in our fair nation? They have practically LIVED on the Today Show...So they have only themselves to blame for said "saturation" and no matter what county this is heard in is not going to make a darn bit of difference. They could take this case over to Europe and try it and Casey Anthony will STILL be found GUILTY as charged...I wish they would just stop with the whining...I mean, if she is innocent as they say and they have all this evidence that PROVES that, will it not prove it no matter where they present it? UGH!!!:banghead:
Click to expand...

That is a good point. It's one thing to talk to local media outside the courthouse as an 'in the moment' sort of thing. However, they intentionally schedule time with NATIONALLY televised shows. Jane Valez Mitchell (how did she ever get a show anyway) is a little more exposure than they should want if they are being truthful about their concerns for a fair trial.
 
  • #133
Much has been made about AL's comment .....she didn't "kill her kid". While many weighed in on her "flub".....I think it is possible that she was attempting to "dehumanize" Caylee as a victim.

This article.....http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8h8054fp while not written by AL....does include quotes from her. The article discusses how defense attorney's defend the seemingly indefensible. It explores their psychological coping mechanisms and their personal methods of dealing with the possibility that their client is guilty of a crime.

Of note...."a tendency toward dehumanization of certain people or groups of people, such as victims or witnesses"

So while many people opine that AL slipped......perhaps she intended to use a dehumanizing term for Caylee all along??
 
  • #134
sleutherontheside said:
Much has been made about AL's comment .....she didn't "kill her kid". While many weighed in on her "flub".....I think it is possible that she was attempting to "dehumanize" Caylee as a victim.

This article.....http://escholarship.org/uc/item/8h8054fp while not written by AL....does include quotes from her. The article discusses how defense attorney's defend the seemingly indefensible. It explores their psychological coping mechanisms and their personal methods of dealing with the possibility that their client is guilty of a crime.

Of note...."a tendency toward dehumanization of certain people or groups of people, such as victims or witnesses"

So while many people opine that AL slipped......perhaps she intended to use a dehumanizing term for Caylee all along??
Click to expand...

That was my thoughts. Sorta.

While we are focusing on the victim, they are focusing on KC. It's ALL about KC. The victim isn't important or even thought of. You can't help a dead victim. But you can help the alive accused.

These dehumanizing comments, might no longer be planned. But just an actual thought at this point.

Those lectures and comments, those are just showing the how, why such lawyers think in such a way. And how and why they excuse such a way of thinking. It helps them personally deal with their job. And it helps their client. So the up coming lawyers can also do it.

So, the goal is PR. But at this point, it might be so natural for AL to think that way, she might not even have to plan it.
 
  • #135
Interesting article ... it's talks about emotional distancing from the clients' crime and victim(s), yet talks about empathy for these clients ?? I doubt the way Andrea has referred to Caylee was accidental, it seems the only victim (s) she has empathy or sympathy for are her clients which includes the ones guilty of the most heinous crimes ...

I found this interesting and familiar ...

The “cause lawyering” label is not necessarily useful in capturing the motivations of criminal or even capital lawyers. Motives are invariably complex. From an emotional perspective, criminal lawyers draw strength from many sources, not all of them lofty. Many of the lawyers who thrive in criminal defense (and perhaps this is true of any litigation-oriented practice) seem to relish the fight. They may be energized by challenging, and preferably thwarting, authority, by fighting for the underdog, or by their political commitments. Not all of these lawyers have a systemic critique of the criminal justice system and the place of capital punishment within that system. Some work for public interest organizations which fight capital punishment as part of a larger strategy of fighting for civil rights.

Who does this sound like?
 
  • #136
  • #137
marspiter said:
To me the news article below the video (can't see the video) was more a sales ad then a news article. After reading the article I was waiting for the Shamwow guy to appear at the bottom of the article and say something like made in Germany, beware of imitators.
Click to expand...


In Chicago, PBS airs a lot of interviews like this to help support local authors.




However, I see that this was actually filmed by WGN... Sorry. It's the same principle though, really; local programming will try to promote local talent.
 
  • #138
Linz said:
In Chicago, PBS airs a lot of interviews like this to help support local authors.




However, I see that this was actually filmed by WGN... Sorry. It's the same principle though, really; local programming will try to promote local talent.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with any media outlet, be it TV, radio, print et al.... participating in a high profile story. How they conduct their interviews however, can always be evaluated and judged. Many opinions will weigh in, and frankly in terms of media reach, that might be considered ideal. I don't think that any interviews that AL has given are horrible, or anything less than what we would expect.

Do I think that AL boarded the KC train for personal gains?....Sure. Do I think she is committed to impacting the results of KC's trial?.....Yep again.

I am not disgusted by her statements and behavior because I am looking at them from the perspective of........"What makes her tick?". I am genetically wired as impatient, curious, even nosy. I thrive on knowing the "workings, methods, and playbook" of any number of situations. I like to be prepared. In this case......AL was thrown in as a wild card (IMO)....I enjoy knowing what "tells" to anticipate.

AL is a talented woman. While I abhor her client and the actions she is charged with, it doesn't lessen my interest in what "play" may be coming next?

I am sensitive to the passionate feelings associated with this case. I share them too......just wanted to make sure that people understand the "motive" behind my "sleuthing" AL. Don't we all want to be able to watch hearings, and ultimately a trial....and be able to say "I know where she is going with this." ?

As far as the contradiction between the defense "complaints about media" and "participation in media"......I can only assume that the defense is preparing for a denial of COV....thus they are attempting to "level the playing field" as part of their plan "B".

JMO
 
  • #139
sleutherontheside said:
There is nothing wrong with any media outlet, be it TV, radio, print et al.... participating in a high profile story. How they conduct their interviews however, can always be evaluated and judged. Many opinions will weigh in, and frankly in terms of media reach, that might be considered ideal. I don't think that any interviews that AL has given are horrible, or anything less than what we would expect.

Do I think that AL boarded the KC train for personal gains?....Sure. Do I think she is committed to impacting the results of KC's trial?.....Yep again.

I am not disgusted by her statements and behavior because I am looking at them from the perspective of........"What makes her tick?". I am genetically wired as impatient, curious, even nosy. I thrive on knowing the "workings, methods, and playbook" of any number of situations. I like to be prepared. In this case......AL was thrown in as a wild card (IMO)....I enjoy knowing what "tells" to anticipate.

AL is a talented woman. While I abhor her client and the actions she is charged with, it doesn't lessen my interest in what "play" may be coming next?

I am sensitive to the passionate feelings associated with this case. I share them too......just wanted to make sure that people understand the "motive" behind my "sleuthing" AL. Don't we all want to be able to watch hearings, and ultimately a trial....and be able to say "I know where she is going with this." ?

As far as the contradiction between the defense "complaints about media" and "participation in media"......I can only assume that the defense is preparing for a denial of COV....thus they are attempting to "level the playing field" as part of their plan "B".

JMO
Click to expand...

Again, thanks doesn't do it, but thank you! MUCH of this describes me, exactly what interests me about her and why I watch her so closely. I could never have expressed it so clearly and concisely,
 
  • #140
An excerpt from.... http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=andrea_lyon


If it is possible to settle your
case with a plea for life or a term of years, you should work to
do that. Many factors play into the ability to negotiate: strength
of the prosecution’s murder case, strength of the aggravation
case, whether it is an election year (is the judge going to worry
about how he looks to the electorate?), whether you are an
opponent the prosecution respects, and a host of other issues.

I think that if people read this article......it can give a great deal of insight into what we are seeing. I offered the link before, but here it is again.
 
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