KC's "Brain Development"

[Peepers McPeep]

This sketti noodle is going to fall off the wall.

Makes me very snarly..
The accused is still fabricating, and it bleeds over into our lives..
through her, others are getting feelings hurt in debate..

I'll just be in the corner cussin' like Yosimite Sam..

 

[Horace Finklestein]

TRUE...Horace
However, what I do not know is what really happened -
SEE IF Casey is MI and they are known for making bad decisions. WHAT IF she just put Caylee in the trunk to sleep while she did party? (Bad decision) and returned to a catastrophe, because the baby suffocated? Just using it as an example I refuse to hang her as if I know all the facts.
MI does predispose them to lie.

Well I'm not trying to be contrary but mental illness would not cause a person to do that. That is pure Casey imo.

 

[Just Jayla]

I'm just not sure how mental illness is relevant to her actions. Mental illness does not cause people to murder. It seems like there is a correlation being made where none exists...Yes, people with mental illness do commit crimes, but having mental illness does not predispose someone to committing crimes.

I keep running into the same stop sign you do-So I am trying very hard to believe that we are solely talking mitigational purposes here, as an insanity plea is off the table.
I can conceptualize some purpose in mitigation, it's just that if I were on the jury I would not go for it because:

1. I have studied KC and this case everyday for nearly three years, I am not buying into the premise based on what I know of her
2. KC's family is not so darn different than many, many other families out there.
3. This slice of mitigation comes nowhere close to overcoming the aggravators in this case

Now, that written, I guess others and the jurors may see it differently. They may see value in the story that JB & crew have to tell. I am cynical. I am an eye for an eye kinda girl when it comes to the murder of a two year old by the one she felt safest with. I don't give a crap about her age. I don't offer a tissue for her issues. I believe KC when she writes that the ends justify the means for her-it's the one truthful thing I think she wrote.

I can acknowledge that there are very compassionate, emotion-based thinkers out there that weigh these proposals. But me & you, Horace, we just ain't one of them.

 

[Curious Me]

This thread is beginning to prove the Defense may have a chance dividing the jurors and creating some mercy and reasonable doubt. So far, whatever is wrong with ICA has not been defined other than vaguely. I doubt there's any past records or brain scans to prove anything. Her childhood and the symptoms being suggested fit about half of America.

Everybody wants to diagnose what's wrong with ICA. She already explained it - she's a spiteful b*tch.
I believe her.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

It doesn't sound to me like this is about traditional mental illness as we understand it....that is, something that would be diagnosable in DSM-IV, although surely Casey probably does have some underlying personality disorder. I'm thinking more along the line with other posters who cited the issue of brain development more meaning that they will try to prove her brain developed abnormally in some way.

Believe it or not, I think there was an episode of Law & Order where they had a defendant try this....now I want to go back and find that episode and see how the lawyers (writers) argued both sides....

Interesting side note: I heard someone say on here that Caylee had craniosynostosis. I know a bit about this because my daughter has plagiocephaly, a very similar condition. They actually thought she might have cranio at first. This is a condition that actually can affect brain development. Thankfully, my daughter seems fine so far and very smart for her age. I have read about cranio/plagio parents whose children are developmentally delayed to various degrees. Anyway, I posted in the thread about the possibility of Caylee being abused a little more info on these conditions for those interested in reading. I'm not aware if this is ever a genetic condition, is it possible Casey had it as a baby? Didn't we see baby pics of her at some point? I'd love to look at them again through this lens. I think if it was serious enough to be treated for we would have known about it by now, right? I also posted a pic of my daughter on the thread to show that sometimes it's such a mild condition it's not very noticeable to the naked eye.

 

[Curious Me]

"The jury convicted Arnold, accused of killing her baby in a microwave oven, of aggravated murder on Friday. Because Arnold’s indictment includes a death penalty specification, her trial will have a second phase: to decide whether she should be sentenced to death."


http://www.daytondailynews.com/blog...d_trial_sentencing.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

"During that second phase, the jury will be asked to weigh aggravating circumstance of the crime - that Arnold was convicted of killing a child under the age of 13 - against mitigating factors presented by the defense."

 

[OneLostGrl]

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bipolar-disorder/DS00356/DSECTION=symptoms

If you read the "manic" part of bi polar symptoms you will recognise KC
had some...
I think if you are going to sentence someone to lethal injection/ LWPOP then they should at least be diagnosed as to whether they have these problems first.
I truly feel so sorry for what happened to Caylee, please dont get me wrong.
but...I think you have to have someone in your family or a friend with bipolar to understand how out of control they get and the things they do that dont make sense.
NORMAL young women do not go on about life when their 2 yr old is missing and not tell anyone about it and then make up elabarote stories when pinned for an explanation. ie: her taking the Detective to Universal Studios and saying she worked there. (she didn't)
Dont forget, in the beginning alot of her friends always said what a good Mother she was, something went terribly WRONG. That is why there will be a jury to listen to it all and then decide what happened. Not just jump to conclusuin that she is just a horrible person trying to get back at her Mother.

Casey is very clearly personality disordered. Bipolar is a cyclic disorder with recurrent episodes of mood disturbance. It is not a behavioral disorder or a personality disorder it is a mood disorder- behavioral control problems occur during manic/hypomanic episodes, and as the mania fades so do the behavioral control problems. Just as depression causes one to withdrawl, to lose interest in the things that normally give them pleasure, when the depression lifts they go back to living and feeling the way they did before. The thing we need to remember about mental illness is that is causes a change in functioning that isn't characteristic of the person when not symptomatic. Crazy isn't our "normal"- it isn't constant.. we experience episodes and have periods of "normal". People with Bipolar feel horrible about themselves after manic episodes, we realize and care that we hurt the people we love, unlike those with personality disorders.

Whereas, Casey's issues are constant- the behavior issues, affective instability, the selfishness, lack of regard for others, lying, stealing etc. ARE her "normal". Because her personality, her character is what is disordered. People with personality disorders don't always show their true self to others, they are pro's are faking normal- they can trick even the best of doctors, lawyers and judges so it's no big surprise that she tricked her "friends".

PS- I have bipolar disorder so I understand it quite well.

 

[OneLostGrl]

"The jury convicted Arnold, accused of killing her baby in a microwave oven, of aggravated murder on Friday. Because Arnold’s indictment includes a death penalty specification, her trial will have a second phase: to decide whether she should be sentenced to death."


http://www.daytondailynews.com/blog...d_trial_sentencing.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

"During that second phase, the jury will be asked to weigh aggravating circumstance of the crime - that Arnold was convicted of killing a child under the age of 13 - against mitigating factors presented by the defense."

Yeah, I'm with ya, no way it this gonna work. Even IF she had bipolar it wouldn't matter. I have committed many crimes and Bipolar didn't save me from my punishment.. and rightfully so!

 

[OneLostGrl]

MANY Bipolar victims also have Personality Disorder.

I ♥ you big time songline.. but girl, I gotta tell you, when you call people suffering from bipolar disorder victims it makes me cringe.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I used to suffer from terrible anxiety attacks. When I went to a dr., he flat out told me that I was repressing memories of sexual abuse... sounds cliched I know, but honestly, I believed him. To this day, years later, I haven't remembered, but there have been glimmers of memory. What forced me to go to the dr. was this...I was 17 years old and at a party with a friend. I admit that I smoked weed, but that was all...and it was the same weed everybody else smoked. Relaxed, I leaned back against the couch and realized I felt 'weird'. I stood up & the next thing I remember is 'coming to', and hearing a blood curdling scream. I was doing the screaming...and had picked up and was holding a very large fully stocked refrigerator. I slammed it down on the floor, looked around me, and could tell that every single person there, was scared of lil ol me. Well, I started having anxiety attacks and eventually made it to a psychiatrist. He explained that I had relaxed enough to let my mental gaurd down, & had remembered, but then I physically forced those memories back down. I know in my gut that's exactly what happened. It's not like I've forgotten, but more like something I just haven't thought about in a long time. Anyway, whatever it was, made me temporarily insane. I didn't hurt anybody, but I could have. If somebody had interfered during those seconds of fugue state, I think I might have killed him with my bare hands...and not even known it! I'm not making excuses for KC, I don't know what her mentality was, but something could be wrong with her and maybe there's more going on than just evil. If I had done something horrible, I would have immediately confessed and not driven around with a dead body, that's for sure, so IMO she knows enough to cover her backside. But my point is this...abuse can and does make some people mentally ill. MOO.

That must have been horrible for you to have to go through! :hug:

 

[Whisperer]

All these people saying she was a good mom did not know the real casey. They saw the image she chose to display at the time. These people were all very young adults with NO children. What do they know about being a good parent?

Dollars to donuts, ICA put on a very good show to impress them of her nurturing abilities but it was all for show. I shudder to think how she may have treated Caylee when alone.

 

[Curious Me]

Casey is very clearly personality disordered. Bipolar is a cyclic disorder with recurrent episodes of mood disturbance. It is not a behavioral disorder or a personality disorder it is a mood disorder- behavioral control problems occur during manic/hypomanic episodes, and as the mania fades so do the behavioral control problems. Just as depression causes one to withdrawl, to lose interest in the things that normally give them pleasure, when the depression lifts they go back to living and feeling the way they did before. The thing we need to remember about mental illness is that is causes a change in functioning that isn't characteristic of the person when not symptomatic. Crazy isn't our "normal"- it isn't constant.. we experience episodes and have periods of "normal". People with Bipolar feel horrible about themselves after manic episodes, we realize and care that we hurt the people we love, unlike those with personality disorders.

Whereas, Casey's issues are constant- the behavior issues, affective instability, the selfishness, lack of regard for others, lying, stealing etc. ARE her "normal". Because her personality, her character is what is disordered. People with personality disorders don't always show their true self to others, they are pro's are faking normal- they can trick even the best of doctors, lawyers and judges so it's no big surprise that she tricked her "friends".

PS- I have bipolar disorder so I understand it quite well.

BBM :applause: Well said, and a :goodpost:

 

[dodie20]

I respectfully disagree. Having retired from a prison that catered to MI, it is mo opinion that .prison is exactly where she belongs. A mental hospital does not need anyone like Casey in it. She would disrupt the process there and she cannot be treated in a mental hospital. It would be too much trouble and they are not equiped to handle her. The bipolar CAN be treated, if she has it, but her personaltiy problem far exceed that AXIS I. Bipolars are notorious for not staying on medication. They prefer the high of mania and on meds they think they are depressed...hence, many refuse it. I have witnessed this working in admissions in a mental facility.

95% of the criminals in this prison hospital were strictly sociopaths. There historys are all similar. Many suffered abuse, physical and emotional, the stories are very upsetting. But this does not meant they all need to be in mental hospitals. Let them be with each other and not out there mixed in with people who are truly MI. She is high functioning and would be a detriment inside of a hospital. Actually Casey likes rules and regulations placed on her. She never had it before and was yearning for it. She falls apart when given choices and no limits. Prison is perfect for her.

If we were to hear all their stories, you would think they all need to be in a mental health clinic. Well, Calif. has made a prison to house them. It has 4000 beds and 27 of them are for those who are not diagnosed with any illness. They usually contain high profile inmates. It costs about $200,000 a yr per inmate to keep them in a hospital dedicated to the MI. Frankly they were no different after they returned to us despite a year to many years of treatment. Recently we have had two staff here killed by 2 patients that were placed in the hospital instead of prison.

I don't think she was a good mom and I doubt she cared about her daughter, but honestly I think something is wrong with her. What she has been accused of doing, goes beyond selfish and throwing a tantrum. I've never seen anybody like her and don't see how she functioned in society. But like you, IDT she needs to be in a mental hospital. There was a guy from a town near mine who moved off and became a serial killer. The stories that later came out about his childhood, were horrible. He was a monster who brutally murdered college girls, but picturing him as that abused, unloved child, broke my heart. He got the death penalty and deserved it, but I wish his parents had gotten it too. The things that parents get away with doing to their kids...and that kind of abuse does do permanent damage. I'm not sure if I believe KC was abused, or born with a brain abnormality, who knows...for the most part, her family seems normal, IMO, and I don't see a big abuse cover-up. But at the end of the day, if somebody is sneaky enough to cover up a crime, and lie and try to get out of it, then he/she knows right from wrong and could have stopped himself. I can understand the sick part, but not the sneaky part. MOO.

 

[Beatrice]

Something happened to Casey post Jesse Grund. (The nice guy.)
Of course, her early pregnancy didn't help her emotional developement.
And, with whom the bio father is....I dare to think!

She felt all love & attention went to Caylee...not to her.

(And, why did Cindy name her children sexually generic names such as Lee & Casey?)

Casey was a child with a child. Did no one one see this?

When her mother pulled the rug from under Casey; financially & emotionally....Casey reacted in the most horrific way. To take HER Caylee away from the true mother...Cindy.

Was it alcohol, drugs, sex? That changed Casey? Attention?
Was she using the Xanax, the chloroform for herself?
Was she so addicted to texting she neglected Caylee in the pool that Monday morning? And couldn't admit it to anyone?

To admit it, meant she had no place to live.

Why lay Caylee to rest probably where Caylee was conceived?
What's with the Father's Day balloon?
Who is the male she sending these messages to? Not Cindy!

I believe Caylee died by accident.....Either in the pool,
the trunk/chloform /gasoline fumes or by Xanax overdose.

She should have come clean in the beginning and ended this circus!

(Hmmmm.....Supposedly, Cindy does not like Hispanic persons....Casey claims the the deceased bio father is an Hispanic person, George was having an affair with a Hispanic woman & Casey's good friend/lover was Ricardo.)

How can Lee believe everything his pathological liar sister says?
Who is C.M.A.?
"He loves them...respects them and hopes they respect him"....more family secrets?

JMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I just did a 5-mile walk for Mental Health Awareness to erase Stigma and get more awareness, more funding, more help, and more Laws to help these people. FACT: There are far more MI people in prisons today then they want to publish, we are trying to change a few laws to help them, they belong in other facilities not a prison.

SO I DO AGREE that is adds to stigma.
I am refusing to Hang KC just because I feel she is MI.
Do I want her out walking *ell NO!
But MI is real it is a hardship not a scapegoat.
The only misinformation we have on this case is from the entire ANTHONEY FAMILY.
As for MI people yes they are smart – the fact that most people are surprised at that should show us all how little we all know.

HANGING HER and playing Judge and Jury is her dilemma.
But If I am going to walk 5 miles for awarness and raise funds
I SURE WILL TYPE IT TOO.

Here's what I think....YES without a doubt Casey sufers from some form of mental illness. HOWEVER, she is not criminally insane and there lies the difference. I am quite certain and willing to bet my last dollar that 99.9% of the folks on death row have some form of mental illness.

 

[songline]

I ♥ you big time songline.. but girl, I gotta tell you, when you call people suffering from bipolar disorder victims it makes me cringe.

:beats: My Sweetheart you are an inspiration, you are a success story; you are a blessing to others with bipolar.
A live example of so many possibilities Bless your heart, I hold you on a pedestal.

Why do I call them suffering or victims, (and maybe I need to change that language)?
That is what I see before my eyes. Not only my daughter, but I do find myself at NAMI and other organizations and I see a lot.
Not all take meds, not all agree that meds and therapy will change the quality of their lives and they DO suffer.

So now, you gave me food for thought and I have to rethink how to express myself, because I do NOT want
to make people like you feel bad. I love you.

 

[songline]

Here's what I think....YES without a doubt Casey sufers from some form of mental illness. HOWEVER, she is not criminally insane and there lies the difference. I am quite certain and willing to bet my last dollar that 99.9% of the folks on death row have some form of mental illness.

I T A

but that is why NAMI (National association for Mental Ilness) is working with the goverment to change some of the laws.

None of my posts tell you I think she should be free.
No I think she should be punished.
I also think we do have to consider her conditin when we finally do punish her.
DO I know her condition??? NOP.. I am however clear that there is some mental condition.

 

[lowens1975]

How can the defense claim she has some sort of brain or development issue when she is clearly assisting in her own defense even helping to select jurors? Would not her own defense team not pay any attention to what she says if this were the case? Do that make sense?

 

[Meemom]

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/criminal_justice_section_newsletter/crimjust_juvjus_Adolescence.authcheckdam.pdf

Not sure I linked this right, but I think this type of mitigation is what AF is gonna push......granted ICA is not adolescent, but article mentions developmental issues into early 20s- impulse control, etc. I think AF will go for actual physical factors, not a mental health factor. There have also been other brain studies regarding over or under developed areas of the brain and its possible connection to criminal behavior, impulse control, etc. At this point, AF has to plan for that guilty verdict, and attempt to lay ICA's vile actions anywhere other than ICA's own shoulders. She will follow the game plan of using confusing scientific info to befuddle the jury, anything to make all this NOT really ICA's fault, the usual A family motto.

Depending on the jury, this may or may not play well. Although I think some of the info regarding this development issue is valid in juveniles, I don't believe it's valid in ICA's case. I think she's just a lazy, entitled, sociopathic, sorry excuse for a human being who thinks she should be able to get away with the murder of her daughter.....JMO

Justice for Caylee, Please!

 

[goldleaf]

JMO and I'm going to be blunt here. Not being a psychiatrist, I don't know what this would be defined as. Here's how I see ICA's brain. ICA has spent her life being coddled and spoiled. I see a young woman who likely enjoys throwing fits to get what she wants from whomever she wants. She's a liar, manipulator and spoiled princess all rolled into one.

BBM. Her world was fine and dandy so long as CA/GA was agreeable to watching Caylee every moment ICA wanted freedom. There a came a point where CA insisted ICA grow up and be a responsible mother. Between the pressures of having to be totally responsible for Caylee, being on the line for the money she stole from her grandparents and missing her PR trip, something snapped. Poor little Caylee was done away with, and not because I necessarily believe ICA was planning it. I think ICA sincerely became overcome with seething anger and took it out on her daughter.
It's hard for me to write that out but, it's how I've been feeling about this case for a long time. Please note I am not excusing what she's done by any means. I just don't think it's as complicated as I originally thought.

I agree with you. I think the missed PR trip was a very big deal to ICA. I also think she found her attempts to be a part of Tony's world (middle class, upwardly mobile, college graduate - or at least in college) harder and harder to maintain. Up until that time, she was able to "keep up" with her social circle.

At this point she is beginning to see she is unable to keep up with the group she wants to be with, an intolerable thought for someone who wants to be the center of attention.

Rather than go back to school and do the work required to go on trips with friends and attract a well educated man, she lied.

Rather than see that she is the problem, she looked around to see who she could blame for holding her back and her eyes fell on Caylee.