Andrew Kinsman, 49, Toronto, 26 June 2017

[G.Smiley]

Sorry, just to clarify, distinguishing between furries (as in the festish community & subculture) and bears (as in the gay "type"). Seeing the early announcements that he had been reported missing shared on a few gay dating / social forums sites, including subculture ones. Doesn't mean it's definitive, but I do know for certain he was involved in some aspects of fetish subculture.

Not raising this as a possible lead (I.e. a bad date from one of these sites), but rather to highlight how much more it feels like we should know about how or why these men might have gone missing. If only for the very real and important possibility that such communities / social ties & extracurricular commitments may hold information that helps to find them.

 

[G.Smiley]

The outdoors can definitely be part of "play" - as it is for many gay men, hence the activity in the parks. Many times it is easier to have an anonymous encounter at a bathhouse or in a park, rather than bringing someone into your private space. Some of the men who cruise are married with wives and kids....and some are out gay dudes looking for some quick fun out in nature. This sort of hookup is also generational as the millennial set tend towards dating apps and hosting hook-ups. All of the TO missing men are middle-aged and (of course this is speculation) I would think generationally predisposed to the offline anonymous hook-up. Both Andrew and Selim were on the apps - but that doesn't mean they were lured online. These apps provide a GPS location of each user....you can easily track a handsome new friend all over the GTA just by looking at their profile. The apps are also notorious for app fatigue meaning that you can cruise on them all day long and end up hooking up with your hand. The parks are open all year round and many of the men on the apps are also in the parks because satisfaction is easier to obtain offline. This is why I am not sure the apps are the full story for how and why these men went missing....

The apps are the full story because TPS has shared info with that as a key detail repeatedly for the public to consider. BY vaguely highlighting the activities (or indeed mere presence) of both of these men on social media / dating apps without sharing even basic details, media conversation can shift away from a focus on these men being missing, and missing for a length of time now, to *why* they have gone missing in a way that highlights individual responsibility (salaciously so).

Not to opine too hard, and putting aside the obvious point that social media is now a part of daily life for almost all urbanites, this detail reframes things. There hasn't been enough shared with the public for anyone to offer up info they might be sitting on re: these guys and social. But we are left to contemplate the significance of their having been on social media to the investigation.

FWIW, it seems like a given that all of these guys were somewhat active on social media dating apps and websites. It also seems clear that they all had in common somewhat favourable feelings toward in-person meetings, be they at bars like Zipperz, private cruising spots like Steamworks, or public cruising spots like city parks.

 

[street maggid]

The TPS has shared that Andrew and Selim were on dating apps to encourage men on these apps to come forward if they know anything or have had strange and off putting experiences. The police now have access to Andrew's apps (they've had this for a few weeks) and they continue to investigate. I have not read anything that would suggest that the other men from 2010-2012 were using apps and I don't see it as a compelling link at this point because of its ubiquity. I appreciate that TPS has released as much info as they have because it might raise caution amongst men using the apps - or cruising parks.

In terms of gay subculture the bear community is a subculture of sorts and anything beyond that - at this point - involving the missing men is pure speculation.
Pardon my ignorance of these matters but I thought that the furry scene was something to do with furry fandom. I don't see any evidence of that on Andrew's social media - or Selim's for that matter.

 

[Wondergirl]

Please post all usernames, social media accounts and emails associated with Andrew.

This could help us find something to determine what happened to Andrew.

Thank-you.

 

[matou]

'We just want closure,' says missing man's family who fears he won't be found alive

Family and friends of Andrew Kinsman say they have lost hope they will find the missing man alive and are instead pleading with whoever may have taken him to anonymously tell police where his body might be.


Greg Downer, who is the founder of the Facebook group TO Missing Rainbow Community Members, posted a grim message Tuesday night.


"To the person who took Andrew Kinsman, I implore you to please anonymously report where he can be found so that his family and friends can hopefully find closure," Downer wrote.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...y-who-fears-he-won-t-be-found-alive-1.4277348

 

[matou]

Strangely, in Andrew's facebook photos, there is a screenshot that has 'some murderer' as the owner of the phone and a strange fake interchange about killing someone. I always hate these ironic things.

https://www.facebook.com/andrew.kinsman.31

 

[street maggid]

When you go through his FB postings you'll see he had a wonderfully dark sense of humour. You can see why people love him so much. I also thought that post was ironic given the nature of his disappearance.

 

[dotr]

Have wondered about this one item " conspicuously missing ", Andrew's satchel.
What exactly is meant by satchel, is it a man purse, a murse, what would be kept in there, keys, cash, id ect. or is it more of a business bag?
Are there any photos of it?
Maybe it might have been dropped or was cast aside and perhaps, hopefully - found by someone who may not even be aware that its' owner is missing.
Also, did Andrew say he was meeting up with friends , plural, for coffee then apparently go missing?
https://news.vice.com/story/two-missing-men-revive-old-fears-in-torontos-gay-community
By Justin Ling Jul 28, 2017
rbbm

Robin LeBlanc, a neighbour of Kinsman and one of the de facto organizers of a loose coalition of friends and concerned community members who have banded together to try and find the 49 year-old, was one of the last to see Kinsman.

“He just said he was going to see friends for coffee,” LeBlanc says.

The only thing conspicuously missing was a satchel that Kinsman frequently took with him.

 

[matou]

Did Andrew have his phone with him? I know it was reported that it was shut off but was it in his apartment? What about his wallet? Keys? etc. Satchel is likely an across the chest bag with a flap closure.

 

[matou]

I know this may be sensitive but was Andrew into bondage, strangulation and/or S&M fetishes?

 

[dotr]

I know this may be sensitive but was Andrew into bondage, strangulation and/or S&M fetishes?

The pic of the bar Eagle within this link, might suggest that , imo, speculation.rbbm.
http://lovethiscitytv.com/pride-toronto-best-gay-places-in-toronto/

How about a little something or a little something leather? This is one bar for gay men and women who have a fetish for leather and having an awesome time. In this club, you would find people in tight black leather jeans, or leather simply just leather garments and probably with a whip and a beer in hand.

 

[Wondergirl]

When you go through his FB postings you'll see he had a wonderfully dark sense of humour. You can see why people love him so much. I also thought that post was ironic given the nature of his disappearance.

What do you make of the photo of a large amount of blood?

 

[dotr]

What do you make of the photo of a large amount of blood?

Another shows a man inside a large green garbage bag, legs protruding- another, ironic considering the look of the other missing men, is a cartoon response to France's, Charlie H. terror.

 

[G.Smiley]

Andrew does have an interest in the fetish community. According to folks I've spoken to who know him, he's been known to party in that regard - bondage / other specific sex stuff, but nothing involving drugs. He doesn't touch drugs, not even weed. Just not his thing.

The coffee shop piece is something I've heard while doing walk-and-talks around the neighbourhood. Talked to about 12 staff and patrons at Black Eagle last week, several of them told me that while Andrew was a known quantity around the bar as a customer, he hadn't actually worked there for nearly a decade.

One of the doormen told me that he apparently had some kind of dispute with his neighbours — the folks living in the building kiddy corner to the one he was living in / superintendent of. The doorman didn't have specifics, but he did say it "got nasty." But no moe details than that, so something to consider.

Another thing, re: the coffee shop. A patron at the bar told me a regular at the Second Cup coffee shop on Church street (gay village) had mentioned being in contact with Andrew the day he went missing. Evidently this Black Eagle patron overheard several of the regulars discussing having texted Andrew the day he went missing, asking him to hang out. He had reportedly told them he "had plans" that evening.

I need to ask around for more details, but this is interesting for a couple reasons, first and foremost because the last established contact I have down is from a close friend with him, one of the people who reported him missing on the Monday morning around 1100AM EST. That friend had last had contact with him the day before, Sunday, around 4-430PM EST via text message. This would be the first piece of information outside of media speculation that he had made plans to meet someone.

I have a list of social handles and accounts, going to dig them up and post tomorrow. Standby for that.

 

[G.Smiley]

Handles I have identified that he uses, so far (not comprehensive — entirely possible he has others):

- Beirdo
- BBeirdo (alternate spelling)
- Bluntbear

Identified references to the first two handles above on Instagram and in some Reddit chatter among users discussing his disappearance.

He was active on several of the mobile gay dating apps, including Grindr, Scruff, Growlr and Squirt. Publically available data appears to be limited for these however, as they are smartphone based (some have web logins) and require a profile in order to access them. Presumably LE will have made requests to these companies to access relevant data. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll be coorperstive, but fingers crosssd.

 

[Samir112]

I am also interested in Andrew's last known confirmed location, does anyone know the vicinity Andrew was in just before his cellphone was turned off based on the cellular tower his phone would of been last connected to?

 

[matou]

I was at the Cabbagetown festival this past weekend and saw Andrew's missing poster everywhere.

Another question: does Andrew wear glasses that turn dark in the sun, prescription sunglasses or just regular glasses when he goes out? Did he wear leather gear (collar and/or shorts) out without a shirt during Pride at some point? Still trying to determine if I saw him at the end of June.

 

[Wondergirl]

Handles I have identified that he uses, so far (not comprehensive — entirely possible he has others):

- Beirdo
- BBeirdo (alternate spelling)
- Bluntbear

Identified references to the first two handles above on Instagram and in some Reddit chatter among users discussing his disappearance.

He was active on several of the mobile gay dating apps, including Grindr, Scruff, Growlr and Squirt. Publically available data appears to be limited for these however, as they are smartphone based (some have web logins) and require a profile in order to access them. Presumably LE will have made requests to these companies to access relevant data. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll be coorperstive, but fingers crosssd.

Thank-you, Smiley, this is something I can work with.

 

[G.Smiley]

That makes me happy thanks for your commitment to this. I really just want to find him. I'm worried, about him and about our community. I've worked a few of these things now and it's starting to take on the worst kind of character — I began skeptical of there being some sort of broader issue. To be honest, now, after a couple months of searching and a fair bit of research, my gut says it's bigger than just him. We need to look out for each other, and these kinds of efforts might be the difference in making an effort.

 

[G.Smiley]

There's one other thing that I've been apprehensive about. The Australian couple that Andrew reportedly saw before he disappeared. I've spoken to a close friend of his, they told me that while the pair did briefly speak with TPS detectives before leaving town (presumably back to Australia, not sure where), they also deleted Andrew off of Facebook immediately after he was reported missing.

That could be nothing other than wanting to avoid a media shitstorm. Or it could be something. Either way, I'm convinced they have more that they know. Even if it's just his last known location, the things he said in the hours before he disappeared; whatever. It seems to me somewhat vital that we identify them and someone learn what that know.

I don't have any details on them other than that they evidently travelled in the same circles as Andrew. Not a lot to go on, but I feel like we should try to find them, in as respectful a way as possible of course.