Anthony's Finally Doubt Casey's Innocence?

[TruthSeeker]

Yes we are positive. CA lied under oath. She also lied to the media many many times that were later proven to be false. She also lied in her taped interviews with investigators.

What evidence do you have to back your statements up?

 

[Angelonline]

What evidence do you have to back your statements up?

For one the police confront her about her lies in one of the taped interviews. Have you watched/read them? If not they are all links in the media section of this site.

One specific example Cindy stated that it took LE days to come pick up the car. However in one of the interviews Det. Yuri confronts her about that statement and reminds her that took them hours not days to tow the car. There are many other instances but that is just one that comes to mind readily.

 

[LisaNY]

Don't know if this is o/t, but could someone post a link to the rick/cindy emails? There was something I wanted to reference here in that thread & I want to re-read it before I do. I have tried the search engive but could not come up with it. TIA.

 

[lin]

A very big difference between Andrea Yates, Susan Smith, and Casey is that Casey and Caylee lived with the family. It is often harder to see changes in people that live under the same roof. I would think that it would also be harder to accept that someone who shared your home would be capable of murder.
Another difference with Yates is that it was known to her family that she wanted to get help but her husband didn't think that she needed it.

I agree these are not cases on point. Cases on point, however, generally aren't so high profile that many would recognize their names. Another difference is that in the named cases, there wasn't a history of lying, stealing, etc., to the best of my knowledge. With the Yates case, yes, the family was aware of her mental health issues, but in this case, Cindy herself described Casey as a psychopath. Cindy herself threatened to take custody from this, "mother of the year." Cindy herself sought psychological help in dealing with Casey.

You suggest there were changes in Casey that occurred subtly over a period of time that were hard to perceive by those closest to her. My understanding of the situation is the exact opposite. Per Lee, Cindy's first words upon seeing Casey crying were, 'What have you done!?!' This is not someone in the dark about who and what her daughter is. Almost all closest to her described Casey as a liar and a thief. JG went so far as to say she was a 'diabolical liar.' Even if this wasn't the case, what to do when confronted by LE with all the lies? There is no nanny; there is no job; there was no trip to Jacksonville; and on and on and on. What then? Blithely continue on as if one never heard it?

Also about living under the same roof, that's something that cuts the other way pretty hard too --- Caylee wasn't under that roof for a month. Wouldn't that constitute something pretty dramatic that even the most nonattentive would notice? Cindy seemed to notice it pretty well in her myspace post.

Back to my point, which was that in most instances, these cases rarely make national news. How many times have we all heard on our local news about a parent or stepparent being accused in the death of child but never saw the actions from those families that we've seen in this case? Didn't the Smith case start out as a "missing" case? Haven't there been lots of others over the years? IMO, the grandparents' media mystery tour fanned the flames on this one, while at the same time, other families chose to accept the obvious, deal with their pain privately and let the system take its course. I'll venture a guess that in most of those cases, especially when the child lived under the same roof, 31 days didn't go by without reporting the disappearance.

I've been harping on it all night but I'll mention it again: The persistent lying of the grandparents that was so pernicious on the part of Cindy that LE asked her to stop because it was hurting the investigation; that was so transparent that George apologized to LE and said something to the effect of he'd tried to put his hand over her mouth. Riddle me that one, Batman. It makes no sense. But for the actions of the grandparents, I think this case would have remained a local case, a blip on local news and forgotten. There would not likely be a dream team or private attorney. Instead, as in other cases, there would more likely have been a public defender and a plea within a few weeks, imo. But no, we now have what I believe is an orchestrated media extravaganza, with the grands playing their part at a great cost to the taxpayers and it appears, potentially an even greater cost to George. And to what end? I have to agree with Turbothink's sig line about Cindy spitting on Caylee's grave.

Something else for which I'll never forgive them, while they were out there trying to act as ringmasters for this circus, numerous other children were legitimately lost/kidnapped and have not yet been found. IMO, they personally are responsible for not only the backlash they received, but consequences that will paid by others because of their behavior. The families of other victims will many times be treated with more skepticism and less willingness to help because of these two people, at least by me and several others with whom I'm acquainted.

 

[MaraSleuth]

Don't know if this is o/t, but could someone post a link to the rick/cindy emails? There was something I wanted to reference here in that thread & I want to re-read it before I do. I have tried the search engive but could not come up with it. TIA.

You can read them here:

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...ee,+record,+07/14/08&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

 

[lin]

Don't know if this is o/t, but could someone post a link to the rick/cindy emails? There was something I wanted to reference here in that thread & I want to re-read it before I do. I have tried the search engive but could not come up with it. TIA.

Oh, great thought! Thanks for helping to prove my point. I certainly hope someone gets those to you asap -- they were in a recent doc dump, iirc. Anyone that hasn't read those emails really should and see how Cindy shuts down anyone that won't play along. Even her own brother.

 

[whiteangora]

I agree these are not cases on point. Cases on point, however, generally aren't so high profile that many would recognize their names. Another difference is that in the named cases, there wasn't a history of lying, stealing, etc., to the best of my knowledge. With the Yates case, yes, the family was aware of her mental health issues, but in this case, Cindy herself described Casey as a psychopath. Cindy herself threatened to take custody from this, "mother of the year." Cindy herself sought psychological help in dealing with Casey.

You suggest there were changes in Casey that occurred subtly over a period of time that were hard to perceive by those closest to her. My understanding of the situation is the exact opposite. Per Lee, Cindy's first words upon seeing Casey crying were, 'What have you done!?!' This is not someone in the dark about who and what her daughter is. Almost all closest to her described Casey as a liar and a thief. JG went so far as to say she was a 'diabolical liar.' Even if this wasn't the case, what to do when confronted by LE with all the lies? There is no nanny; there is no job; there was no trip to Jacksonville; and on and on and on. What then? Blithely continue on as if one never heard it?

Also about living under the same roof, that's something that cuts the other way pretty hard too --- Caylee wasn't under that roof for a month. Wouldn't that constitute something pretty dramatic that even the most nonattentive would notice? Cindy seemed to notice it pretty well in her myspace post.

Back to my point, which was that in most instances, these cases rarely make national news. How many times have we all heard on our local news about a parent or stepparent being accused in the death of child but never saw the actions from those families that we've seen in this case? Didn't the Smith case start out as a "missing" case? Haven't there been lots of others over the years? IMO, the grandparents' media mystery tour fanned the flames on this one, while at the same time, other families chose to accept the obvious, deal with their pain privately and let the system take its course. I'll venture a guess that in most of those cases, especially when the child lived under the same roof, 31 days didn't go by without reporting the disappearance.

I've been harping on it all night but I'll mention it again: The persistent lying of the grandparents that was so pernicious on the part of Cindy that LE asked her to stop because it was hurting the investigation; that was so transparent that George apologized to LE and said something to the effect of he'd tried to put his hand over her mouth. Riddle me that one, Batman. It makes no sense. But for the actions of the grandparents, I think this case would have remained a local case, a blip on local news and forgotten. There would not likely be a dream team or private attorney. Instead, as in other cases, there would more likely have been a public defender and a plea within a few weeks, imo. But no, we now have what I believe is an orchestrated media extravaganza, with the grands playing their part at a great cost to the taxpayers and it appears, potentially an even greater cost to George. And to what end? I have to agree with Turbothink's sig line about Cindy spitting on Caylee's grave.

Something else for which I'll never forgive them, while they were out there trying to act as ringmasters for this circus, numerous other children were legitimately lost/kidnapped and have not yet been found. IMO, they personally are responsible for not only the backlash they received, but consequences that will paid by others because of their behavior. The families of other victims will many times be treated with more skepticism and less willingness to help because of these two people, at least by me and several others with whom I'm acquainted.

lin, that was a fantastic post, I agree 100%.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I have held out hope many times that the Grandparents would eventually see the reality of the situation and deal with it and others honestly. It has been very frustrating to watch. I think, if this was said, it came more from their attorney than from them. I am tired of having my hopes dashed with this family and they have been dashed many times. From now on, I will operate under a wait and see policy. President Reagan's quote comes to mind, "Trust but Verify".

 

[jennyb]

I agree these are not cases on point. Cases on point, however, generally aren't so high profile that many would recognize their names. Another difference is that in the named cases, there wasn't a history of lying, stealing, etc., to the best of my knowledge. With the Yates case, yes, the family was aware of her mental health issues, but in this case, Cindy herself described Casey as a psychopath. Cindy herself threatened to take custody from this, "mother of the year." Cindy herself sought psychological help in dealing with Casey.

You suggest there were changes in Casey that occurred subtly over a period of time that were hard to perceive by those closest to her. My understanding of the situation is the exact opposite. Per Lee, Cindy's first words upon seeing Casey crying were, 'What have you done!?!' This is not someone in the dark about who and what her daughter is. Almost all closest to her described Casey as a liar and a thief. JG went so far as to say she was a 'diabolical liar.' Even if this wasn't the case, what to do when confronted by LE with all the lies? There is no nanny; there is no job; there was no trip to Jacksonville; and on and on and on. What then? Blithely continue on as if one never heard it?

Also about living under the same roof, that's something that cuts the other way pretty hard too --- Caylee wasn't under that roof for a month. Wouldn't that constitute something pretty dramatic that even the most nonattentive would notice? Cindy seemed to notice it pretty well in her myspace post.

Back to my point, which was that in most instances, these cases rarely make national news. How many times have we all heard on our local news about a parent or stepparent being accused in the death of child but never saw the actions from those families that we've seen in this case? Didn't the Smith case start out as a "missing" case? Haven't there been lots of others over the years? IMO, the grandparents' media mystery tour fanned the flames on this one, while at the same time, other families chose to accept the obvious, deal with their pain privately and let the system take its course. I'll venture a guess that in most of those cases, especially when the child lived under the same roof, 31 days didn't go by without reporting the disappearance.

I've been harping on it all night but I'll mention it again: The persistent lying of the grandparents that was so pernicious on the part of Cindy that LE asked her to stop because it was hurting the investigation; that was so transparent that George apologized to LE and said something to the effect of he'd tried to put his hand over her mouth. Riddle me that one, Batman. It makes no sense. But for the actions of the grandparents, I think this case would have remained a local case, a blip on local news and forgotten. There would not likely be a dream team or private attorney. Instead, as in other cases, there would more likely have been a public defender and a plea within a few weeks, imo. But no, we now have what I believe is an orchestrated media extravaganza, with the grands playing their part at a great cost to the taxpayers and it appears, potentially an even greater cost to George. And to what end? I have to agree with Turbothink's sig line about Cindy spitting on Caylee's grave.

Something else for which I'll never forgive them, while they were out there trying to act as ringmasters for this circus, numerous other children were legitimately lost/kidnapped and have not yet been found. IMO, they personally are responsible for not only the backlash they received, but consequences that will paid by others because of their behavior. The families of other victims will many times be treated with more skepticism and less willingness to help because of these two people, at least by me and several others with whom I'm acquainted.

Well that was just brilliant. Thank you.

 

[jeepgirlva]

I agree these are not cases on point. Cases on point, however, generally aren't so high profile that many would recognize their names. Another difference is that in the named cases, there wasn't a history of lying, stealing, etc., to the best of my knowledge. With the Yates case, yes, the family was aware of her mental health issues, but in this case, Cindy herself described Casey as a psychopath. Cindy herself threatened to take custody from this, "mother of the year." Cindy herself sought psychological help in dealing with Casey.

You suggest there were changes in Casey that occurred subtly over a period of time that were hard to perceive by those closest to her. My understanding of the situation is the exact opposite. Per Lee, Cindy's first words upon seeing Casey crying were, 'What have you done!?!' This is not someone in the dark about who and what her daughter is. Almost all closest to her described Casey as a liar and a thief. JG went so far as to say she was a 'diabolical liar.' Even if this wasn't the case, what to do when confronted by LE with all the lies? There is no nanny; there is no job; there was no trip to Jacksonville; and on and on and on. What then? Blithely continue on as if one never heard it?

Also about living under the same roof, that's something that cuts the other way pretty hard too --- Caylee wasn't under that roof for a month. Wouldn't that constitute something pretty dramatic that even the most nonattentive would notice? Cindy seemed to notice it pretty well in her myspace post.

Back to my point, which was that in most instances, these cases rarely make national news. How many times have we all heard on our local news about a parent or stepparent being accused in the death of child but never saw the actions from those families that we've seen in this case? Didn't the Smith case start out as a "missing" case? Haven't there been lots of others over the years? IMO, the grandparents' media mystery tour fanned the flames on this one, while at the same time, other families chose to accept the obvious, deal with their pain privately and let the system take its course. I'll venture a guess that in most of those cases, especially when the child lived under the same roof, 31 days didn't go by without reporting the disappearance.

I've been harping on it all night but I'll mention it again: The persistent lying of the grandparents that was so pernicious on the part of Cindy that LE asked her to stop because it was hurting the investigation; that was so transparent that George apologized to LE and said something to the effect of he'd tried to put his hand over her mouth. Riddle me that one, Batman. It makes no sense. But for the actions of the grandparents, I think this case would have remained a local case, a blip on local news and forgotten. There would not likely be a dream team or private attorney. Instead, as in other cases, there would more likely have been a public defender and a plea within a few weeks, imo. But no, we now have what I believe is an orchestrated media extravaganza, with the grands playing their part at a great cost to the taxpayers and it appears, potentially an even greater cost to George. And to what end? I have to agree with Turbothink's sig line about Cindy spitting on Caylee's grave.

Something else for which I'll never forgive them, while they were out there trying to act as ringmasters for this circus, numerous other children were legitimately lost/kidnapped and have not yet been found. IMO, they personally are responsible for not only the backlash they received, but consequences that will paid by others because of their behavior. The families of other victims will many times be treated with more skepticism and less willingness to help because of these two people, at least by me and several others with whom I'm acquainted.[/quote

Now I'm no Cindy fan but she did say she would use the media to find Caylee and I for one cannot blame her ...and I don't think CA cares about any backlash now or then because she was looking for her grandaughter and used the tools available to her....and she has stayed out of the media since Caylee has been found..

 

[azwriter]

agreed, but what could cause such a mammoth change in these people?

The fact they don't want to be charged with OJ or withholding evidence. I think that threat would change their minds.
jmo

 

[BuzzieCat]

I think BC is saying this in prep for GA's release from the hospital. I have no proof of this, just my gut feeling, that GA has jumped ship from the SS Anthony. I think we're going to see GA come out and say he knows his daughter did it and the antics of the family for the last six months have been a smoke screen. I think he's tired of living a lie, he has seen first hand now the horrible carnage caused by his daughters lies and I don't think he wants to follow the script anymore.

So I think BC's plan is to get ahead of the curve and start putting out some feelers that the A's are starting to doubt KC's innocence. It's the only way they can seg way into what George is going to say when he is ready to talk.

My opinion as always.

Maybe, but I have my doubts. If it is true that he made "dark veiled references" to Casey's friends in his suicide note, to me that sounds like he was still trying to cling to the idea of Casey's innocence. Even if he's been getting therapy, I'm not sure he would make this complete about-face in just a few days and be ready to announce to the world that he thinks Casey is guilty. He and the rest of the family just need to be quiet now and work through things in private as best they can.

IMO when CA finally caught up to Casey, she still held out hope that Casey had left Caylee with someone and was just being stubborn about not giving up her whereabouts. She hoped that calling 911 would press Casey into revealing where Caylee was. Then when she started the whole spiel with Zenaida and working at Universal, IMO she probably realized that Caylee wasn't coming back.

 

[Angelonline]

Now I'm no Cindy fan but she did say she would use the media to find Caylee and I for one cannot blame her ...and I don't think CA cares about any backlash now or then because she was looking for her grandaughter and used the tools available to her....and she has stayed out of the media since Caylee has been found..

Well Cindy, certainly did not use the media effectively. She never once pled for Caylees return, she never once made a heartfelt emotional plea. IMO. But she did call the media leeches and maggots. hmmm I don't think she used the tools available at all. She was too busy using the media to try and spin Kc's innocence, instead of showing worry and concern for Caylee.. IMO

 

[PoppyH]

Well Cindy, certainly did not use the media effectively. She never once pled for Caylees return, she never once made a heartfelt emotional plea. IMO. But she did call the media leeches and maggots.

And Parasites!!! O My!:crazy:

 

[DISPATCHER3062]

Go to docstock.com and u can read all of the tapes and videos

 

[Leila]

I think BC is saying this in prep for GA's release from the hospital. I have no proof of this, just my gut feeling, that GA has jumped ship from the SS Anthony. I think we're going to see GA come out and say he knows his daughter did it and the antics of the family for the last six months have been a smoke screen. I think he's tired of living a lie, he has seen first hand now the horrible carnage caused by his daughters lies and I don't think he wants to follow the script anymore.

So I think BC's plan is to get ahead of the curve and start putting out some feelers that the A's are starting to doubt KC's innocence. It's the only way they can segway into what George is going to say when he is ready to talk.

My opinion as always.

I can see this as a possibility, and I hope you're right.

 

[jeepgirlva]

Well Cindy, certainly did not use the media effectively. She never once pled for Caylees return, she never once made a heartfelt emotional plea. IMO. But she did call the media leeches and maggots. hmmm I don't think she used the tools available at all. She was too busy using the media to try and spin Kc's innocence, instead of showing worry and concern for Caylee.. IMO

Casey was not talking I think Cindy knew Caylee was gone and she knew KC killed her ...but she held on to hope that KC was telling the truth that she had been kidnapped and I did see her plea to the public to look for Caylee

 

[lin]

Now I'm no Cindy fan but she did say she would use the media to find Caylee and I for one cannot blame her ...and I don't think CA cares about any backlash now or then because she was looking for her grandaughter and used the tools available to her....and she has stayed out of the media since Caylee has been found..

First, thanks to those who complimented a couple of my posts. WA, I've missed you!

Second, thanks to everyone for discussing this tonight. It's so nice when folks can disagree and be able to explore the other's opinion for a better understanding of the whole. I admit, I have a difficult time understanding those, like NG, that continue to defend the grandparents' actions.

Maybe I'm l like a reformed smoker around others who smoke because early on, I defended the grandparents to the point of heatedly arguing with my own mother and others whose opinions I value. I used the same reasoning I have seen many others continue to use --- we don't know how we'd act in that situation; grief stricken; etc. etc. etc. I could easily see either set of my children's grandparents fighting tooth and nail to get their name out, keep the case alive and the tips coming in. In my case, both grandmothers saw through Cindy immediately. Just as they would see through me, even though my history is the polar opposite of Casey's.

My defense of the grandparents ended when we started getting doc dumps and I read what they knew and when they knew it. Yes, of course anyone that cares would use any tools available, but I take issue with misuse of those tools to the possible detriment of others who may be able to use those services to a better end and with better motives. Again, what they knew and when they knew it; the lies; the interference with the investigation looking for a live Caylee, meaning the lies LE asked her to stop; etc. etc. etc.

They've stayed out of the media since Caylee was found, imo, only because no one will book the KC Sunshine band anymore. They can't continue the charade that appears to have nearly killed George. There is no chance of influencing a potential jury pool with nanny nonsense, among other possible motivations. The disservice they've done to other missing children, to the public, to themselves, their family and especially to Caylee, unfortunately, live on through their prior actions.

 

[Angelonline]

jeepgirlva[/b];3236243]

Casey was not talking I think Cindy knew Caylee was gone and she knew KC killed her ...but she held on to hope that KC was telling the truth that she had been kidnapped and I did see her plea to the public to look for Caylee

Can you show me a link to that plea? I for one have never seen it and I have followed this case from day one. Would love to see a heartfelt plea by Cindy or anyone in the family for that matter.

 

[Angelonline]

They've stayed out of the media since Caylee was found, imo, only because no one will book the KC Sunshine band anymore. They can't continue the charade that appears to have nearly killed George. There is no chance of influencing a potential jury pool with nanny nonsense, among other possible motivations. The disservice they've done to other missing children, to the public, to themselves, their family and especially to Caylee, unfortunately, live on through their prior actions.

Excellent post I heartly agree!