AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[RaeL]

(Quote from parents' lawyer)

He says a child is not abused by "allegations" and points out that the children were examined on scene by a physician and pronounced fit and healthy.

Yes, technically this is true. But if there was probable cause found (and there was) then don't we prefer the authorities err on the side of safety for the children? How many cases have we lamented that DHS dropped the ball because they returned children to an abusive home too soon? I much prefer these allegations are thoroughly investigated before returning the kids. Do I wish we know all the evidence they have? Yes, but I am not the investigator or the judge. We must trust they will do what is in the best interest of the children and keep our eyes open to updates.

What is it we tell our kids about abuse?!!! To keep telling a trusted adult until they are believed. We don't want to negate a child's accusation without thorough investigation.

 

[gitana1]

Thanks Gitana for finding the updated info. I didn't even check the dates on the article. So, no info was shared on evidence?

No. Since it is a juvenile dependency case, unless there are criminal charges or the family releases documents, that info is totally confidential.

 

[SStarr33]

(Quote from parents' lawyer)




Yes, technically this is true. But if there was probable cause found (and there was) then don't we prefer the authorities err on the side of safety for the children? How many cases have we lamented that DHS dropped the ball because they returned children to an abusive home too soon? I much prefer these allegations are thoroughly investigated before returning the kids. Do I wish we know all the evidence they have? Yes, but I am not the investigator or the judge. We must trust they will do what is in the best interest of the children and keep our eyes open to updates.

What is it we tell our kids about abuse?!!! To keep telling a trusted adult until they are believed. We don't want to negate a child's accusation without thorough investigation.

Then they need to pull them from public schools and allow them to be homeschooled in the interim. It is beyond outrageous that they stuck them in public schools.

 

[SStarr33]

Yeah, that's what the parents said. That's their story But their story has changed several times. And this story doesn't make sense.

Again:

1. LE found reason to swarm their house and serve a search warrant.
2. After that, LE found reason to remove the children from the home.
3. DCFS found reason to apply ex parte for a 72 hour removal.
4. The court granted an order for a 72 hour removal and a probable cause hearing was set.
5. At the probable cause hearing, the court found cause to keep the children in custody pending a further hearing date.

But you think a young LE officer is the cause of all this? That some young man had the power to remove all of the children, over objections of multiple LE officials at the house? It was one young man who got to make such an important decision?

And then did he also somehow have the power to influence DHS and the judge, and overcome the defense mounted by the family through their attorney?

Um, yes, LE has the power to influence.

 

[RaeL]

Then they need to pull them from public schools and allow them to be homeschooled in the interim. It is beyond outrageous that they stuck them in public schools.

Homeschooled by whom?

 

[SStarr33]

Homeschooled by whom?

The homeschooling community is very organized. I'm sure they could find someone to do it.

 

[MyBelle]

Why would local sheriffs, local DHS and the local court in rural Arkansas, all be in a conspiracy against a father because he is a Tea Party activist?

86% of people in Arkansas are Christian. It is an overwhelmingly conservative state. There is a relatively large number of tea party members in the Stanley home town of Hot Springs. http://www.irehr.org/issue-areas/te...alysis/527-status-of-tea-party-by-the-numbers

Are we to believe that the local sheriffs, the investigators from DHS and the judge in the case are all liberals who have conspired to take down this particular tea partier in their state?

That doesn't sound too logical to me.

BTW, according to their facebook page, the next hearing is 2-12-15.

It is Arkansas. It doesn't have to be logical in order to be true. You keep referring to it as rural Arkansas but Hot Springs isn't any more rural than Vail, Colorado. Hot Springs has been a resort community for over 150 years. The Tea Party is socially conservative and very much alive and active because they wish to live without government intruding into their lifestyle but that's true in every state. The Sheriff is newly elected as an independent but he did have the endorsement of many Tea Party residents. He's newly elected and not off to a good start, imo.

Arkansas is a socially conservative state but the majority of voters are Democrats. Bill Clinton is a Democrat, as was Orval Faubus and J. William Fulbright. Education has always been a priority in Arkansas.

My guess is that the underlying issue in this case is about home schooling and whatever taxes are or are not being paid because the children are being home schooled.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The homeschooling community is very organized. I'm sure they could find someone to do it.

They certainly are and this is going to snowball quickly, imo.

 

[TrackerSam]

A 5-hour search and forcing small children into a medical exam in an ambulance is so far over the top it is ridiculous. Add a SWAT team to the mix and those kids must have been terrified.

Seems to be politically motivated because Dad is a Tea Party activist rather than having anything to do with the best interest or safety or health of the children.

Rather than admit they screwed up, I'm betting this will be dragged out in the courts for months.

JMO

Yes because they have to justify the overwhelming fire power brought into it. It's a decision either made by the DA or an ADA. What I do find odd but not unbelievable is the age of his wife. He's 73, and she looks to be half his age. The children look like her but he's old enough to be a grandfather to the oldest and a great grandfather to the youngest. Still, why the multiple SWAT teams? I kind of feel that they may be frantic to find something to accuse them of and it is political. Not in the sense of right wing left wing maybe, but in the sense that DAs are politicians and losing or to be made to look foolish is not an option IMO.

 

[RaeL]

The wife is 28 years younger lol. I did the math as soon as I saw their photo! He's 73, she's 45 and their youngest child is (I believe) 4 years old.

The elder daughter looks so much like the mom. All very good looking kids.

Another thought I had is the question of who reported them in the first place. The parents commented strongly on how they didn't like that it was possible for someone to anonymously report abuse. The article said that the abuse was reported by 2 adults in the community who know the family well. I seriously wonder if he suspects it was his 2 oldest college kids......

 

[southsleuth]

Yeah, that's what the parents said. That's their story But their story has changed several times. And this story doesn't make sense.

Again:

1. LE found reason to swarm their house and serve a search warrant.
2. After that, LE found reason to remove the children from the home.
3. DCFS found reason to apply ex parte for a 72 hour removal.
4. The court granted an order for a 72 hour removal and a probable cause hearing was set.
5. At the probable cause hearing, the court found cause to keep the children in custody pending a further hearing date.

But you think a young LE officer is the cause of all this? That some young man had the power to remove all of the children, over objections of multiple LE officials at the house? It was one young man who got to make such an important decision?

And then did he also somehow have the power to influence DHS and the judge, and overcome the defense mounted by the family through their attorney?

The articles on MSM made my hinky meter go berserk. I knew there had to be more to this after the first story and suspected an over-armed household seriously awaiting the end of the world. Preparing daily for a violent end. Thus the term "preppers". Paranoid.

 

[meanmaryjean]

It is Arkansas. It doesn't have to be logical in order to be true. You keep referring to it as rural Arkansas but Hot Springs isn't any more rural than Vail, Colorado. Hot Springs has been a resort community for over 150 years. The Tea Party is socially conservative and very much alive and active because they wish to live without government intruding into their lifestyle but that's true in every state. The Sheriff is newly elected as an independent but he did have the endorsement of many Tea Party residents. He's newly elected and not off to a good start, imo.

Arkansas is a socially conservative state but the majority of voters are Democrats. Bill Clinton is a Democrat, as was Orval Faubus and J. William Fulbright. Education has always been a priority in Arkansas.

My guess is that the underlying issue in this case is about home schooling and whatever taxes are or are not being paid because the children are being home schooled.

JMO

BBM: I would agree that the home schooling is a fairly large portion of this debacle; however, contrary to popular belief - home schoolers get ZERO -as in none whatsoever -tax break for doing so. I educated my four children at home for twenty-five years, and paid all the the required school taxes the entire time.

 

[gitana1]

Then they need to pull them from public schools and allow them to be homeschooled in the interim. It is beyond outrageous that they stuck them in public schools.

That would be hard to do. Anyone providing homeschooling would have to pass state requirements for education providers and care providers - screenings, background checks, etc. And it is doubtful there is the money for that.

Um, yes, LE has the power to influence.

Not in my opinion. One, young sheriff - because that's what the family said - had the power to influence all the other sheriffs as well as DHS, who conducted an independent investigation, and the judge? It doesn't seem probable to me.

It is Arkansas. It doesn't have to be logical in order to be true. You keep referring to it as rural Arkansas but Hot Springs isn't any more rural than Vail, Colorado. Hot Springs has been a resort community for over 150 years. The Tea Party is socially conservative and very much alive and active because they wish to live without government intruding into their lifestyle but that's true in every state. The Sheriff is newly elected as an independent but he did have the endorsement of many Tea Party residents. He's newly elected and not off to a good start, imo.

Arkansas is a socially conservative state but the majority of voters are Democrats. Bill Clinton is a Democrat, as was Orval Faubus and J. William Fulbright. Education has always been a priority in Arkansas.

My guess is that the underlying issue in this case is about home schooling and whatever taxes are or are not being paid because the children are being home schooled.

JMO

Looks pretty rural to me: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.529...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRUJ9E3pWLjflAuvW1Rkvug!2e0

That just means it is not a big city which tends to be more liberal in general than rural communities in the south.

Arkansas is a solidly red state: http://www.politico.com/2014-election/results/map/senate/arkansas/#.VMGLEy7qO30

The governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, attorney general, state auditor, state treasurer, state land commissioner, are all Republicans. Garland County is a strong tea party county and there is no way the independent, tea party supported sheriff would have it in for a tea party family. http://www.washingtoncountyteaparty.com/?q=node/135

That makes zero sense. It is totally illogical. You do realize these people have to be elected in those areas? You think they are going to go after the people who elected them?

As to education, Arkansas ranks 36 out of 50: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/jan/21/arkansas-36th-in-education-ranking-2015/ That means they are in the 28th percentile.

As to Bill Clinton, he was from Arkansas, so of course he got a lot of support from that state. And the majority of voters are Democrats? Nope.

The Democratic party used to be big in the south as it was, before the mid-1960's socially conservative. Remnants of Dixiecrats hung on for some time. Eventually, there was a shift with formerly Republican black voters in the south changing to Democrat and formerly white voters in the region changing to Republican. But there is still a core of conservative Democrats in the south.

Today, about 30% of voters identify as Democrats in Arkansas but 37% identify as Independent (and please don't tell me they are socialists), and 24% as Republicans. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/01/21/215122/as-independent-voters-numbers.html What that means is that 61% are not Democrats. Of those that are, most are conservative Democrats:

Arkansas has been a reliably red state in each of the last four presidential elections. But this predictability in presidential elections belies the seismic political shift in the Razorback State over the past four years. Federal and state offices once dominated by Democrats are now filled with Republicans. Before the 2010 election, Democrats held five out of six federal offices -- both Senate and three of the four House seats -- and also controlled both chambers of the state legislature.
Despite the shifting political winds, Arkansas' underlying ideology remains unchanged; it has consistently been more conservative than the rest of the nation. In the first six months of 2014, 41% of Arkansans said they identify as conservative, five points higher than the national average. In 2008, when Pryor was re-elected with no serious opposition, Arkansans were more conservative than the U.S. by a six-point margin.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/176177/fewer-conservative-dems-arkansas-adds-tight-midterm.aspx

Arkansas is the 9th most conservative state out of 50: http://www.businessinsider.com/most...-2#9-arkansas-tie--453-percent-conservative-1

All that means that it is illogical and not rational to believe their is a state or county-level anti-Tea party, anti-homeschooler, pro-tax or anti-religious conspiracy afoot to harm this particular family. It simply makes zero sense. None at all. It makes zero sense that an independent sheriff elected by tea partiers, would go after one of his constituents in this way. Nah.

 

[gitana1]

Yes because they have to justify the overwhelming fire power brought into it. It's a decision either made by the DA or an ADA. What I do find odd but not unbelievable is the age of his wife. He's 73, and she looks to be half his age. The children look like her but he's old enough to be a grandfather to the oldest and a great grandfather to the youngest. Still, why the multiple SWAT teams? I kind of feel that they may be frantic to find something to accuse them of and it is political. Not in the sense of right wing left wing maybe, but in the sense that DAs are politicians and losing or to be made to look foolish is not an option IMO.

I don't know. I mean I fully get how a government agency will dig in their heels and stubbornly try to justify a bad decision. That happens. But what your posts suggests is that they brought in tons of firepower to justify bringing in tons of firepower. Or are you suggesting they made the decision to remove in order to justify such a raid? That would make more sense and I could see that, actually.

However, why did they bring in so much firepower to begin with? And while I can see the sheriffs doing that, they are not in charge of DHS, which is a separate, governmental agency. And the juvenile dependency court is not connected with the DA either.

I find it hard to believe all three agencies conspired together.

 

[southsleuth]

That would be hard to do. Anyone providing homeschooling would have to pass state requirements for education providers and care providers - screenings, background checks, etc. And it is doubtful there is the money for that.



Not in my opinion. One, young sheriff - because that's what the family said - had the power to influence all the other sheriffs as well as DHS, who conducted an independent investigation, and the judge? It doesn't seem probable to me.



Looks pretty rural to me: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.529...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRUJ9E3pWLjflAuvW1Rkvug!2e0

That just means it is not a big city which tends to be more liberal in general than rural communities in the south.

Arkansas is a solidly red state: http://www.politico.com/2014-election/results/map/senate/arkansas/#.VMGLEy7qO30

The governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, attorney general, state auditor, state treasurer, state land commissioner, are all Republicans. Garland County is a strong tea party county and there is no way the independent, tea party supported sheriff would have it in for a tea party family. http://www.washingtoncountyteaparty.com/?q=node/135

That makes zero sense. It is totally illogical. You do realize these people have to be elected in those areas? You think they are going to go after the people who elected them?

As to education, Arkansas ranks 36 out of 50: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/jan/21/arkansas-36th-in-education-ranking-2015/ That means they are in the 28th percentile.

As to Bill Clinton, he was from Arkansas, so of course he got a lot of support from that state. And the majority of voters are Democrats? Nope.

The Democratic party used to be big in the south as it was, before the mid-1960's socially conservative. Remnants of Dixiecrats hung on for some time. Eventually, there was a shift with formerly Republican black voters in the south changing to Democrat and formerly white voters in the region changing to Republican. But there is still a core of conservative Democrats in the south.

Today, about 30% of voters identify as Democrats in Arkansas but 37% identify as Independent (and please don't tell me they are socialists), and 24% as Republicans. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/01/21/215122/as-independent-voters-numbers.html What that means is that 61% are not Democrats. Of those that are, most are conservative Democrats:

Arkansas is the 9th most conservative state out of 50: http://www.businessinsider.com/most...-2#9-arkansas-tie--453-percent-conservative-1

All that means that it is illogical and not rational to believe their is a state or county-level anti-Tea party, anti-homeschooler, pro-tax or anti-religious conspiracy afoot to harm this particular family. It simply makes zero sense. None at all. It makes zero sense that an independent sheriff elected by tea partiers, would go after one of his constituents in this way. Nah.

OT: In the south, conservative Democrats are called "yellow dog democrats". I've heard the term/slang all my life but don't know the origin.
A conspiracy between the elected sheriff, deputies, county/state social workers? I agree, it doesn't make sense.
BTW: I've worked with politicians for 20+ years. Most of us are moderate whether Dem or Rep. (I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative) The Tea Party is the extreme end of the right wing Republicans. The extreme end of the Dems are the super left-wing politicians.

 

[SStarr33]

When you have WaPo doing a story, you have the attention of the entire country. I can see how they might want to try to save face if they were wrong.

 

[gitana1]

When you have WaPo doing a story, you have the attention of the entire country. I can see how they might want to try to save face if they were wrong.

But who is "they"? I can possibly buy the argument that the DA may have wanted to save face and justify their extreme firepower. But DHS? And the judge who is elected? Nah.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

A couple articles on a raid and shut down of a company that was selling MMS:

http://www.inlander.com/spokane/when-a-miracle-meets-the-fda/Content?oid=2138224

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/2...ays-constitution-protected-private-sale-cure/

Just a thought that came to mind...I wonder if these parents could have been distributing the stuff and that may be "part" of the investigation.

Supposedly, it "cures" just about everything, so it does make me wonder if they were giving it as a alternative to the children.

I would much rather see things transpire this way and a full investigation done, than a potential very, very, bad ending for innocent children. We see enough of that every day here. Parents that have alternate beliefs will say many things to justify their actions. All allegations should be taken seriously for the safety of the children.

 

[Charlie09]

Initial article was one sided. I think there will be more that comes out.

I've never seen anything good come from such extremism.

What extremism?

 

[SStarr33]

A couple articles on a raid and shut down of a company that was selling MMS:

http://www.inlander.com/spokane/when-a-miracle-meets-the-fda/Content?oid=2138224

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/2...ays-constitution-protected-private-sale-cure/

Just a thought that came to mind...I wonder if these parents could have been distributing the stuff and that may be "part" of the investigation.

Supposedly, it "cures" just about everything, so it does make me wonder if they were giving it as a alternative to the children.

I would much rather see things transpire this way and a full investigation done, than a potential very, very, bad ending for innocent children. We see enough of that every day here. Parents that have alternate beliefs will say many things to justify their actions. All allegations should be taken seriously for the safety of the children.

See the first page of the thread. The sheriff is now saying MMS has nothing to do with the case.