AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[MyBelle]

That would be hard to do. Anyone providing homeschooling would have to pass state requirements for education providers and care providers - screenings, background checks, etc. And it is doubtful there is the money for that.



Not in my opinion. One, young sheriff - because that's what the family said - had the power to influence all the other sheriffs as well as DHS, who conducted an independent investigation, and the judge? It doesn't seem probable to me.



Looks pretty rural to me: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.529...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRUJ9E3pWLjflAuvW1Rkvug!2e0

That just means it is not a big city which tends to be more liberal in general than rural communities in the south.

Arkansas is a solidly red state: http://www.politico.com/2014-election/results/map/senate/arkansas/#.VMGLEy7qO30

The governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, attorney general, state auditor, state treasurer, state land commissioner, are all Republicans. Garland County is a strong tea party county and there is no way the independent, tea party supported sheriff would have it in for a tea party family. http://www.washingtoncountyteaparty.com/?q=node/135

That makes zero sense. It is totally illogical. You do realize these people have to be elected in those areas? You think they are going to go after the people who elected them?

As to education, Arkansas ranks 36 out of 50: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/jan/21/arkansas-36th-in-education-ranking-2015/ That means they are in the 28th percentile.

As to Bill Clinton, he was from Arkansas, so of course he got a lot of support from that state. And the majority of voters are Democrats? Nope.

The Democratic party used to be big in the south as it was, before the mid-1960's socially conservative. Remnants of Dixiecrats hung on for some time. Eventually, there was a shift with formerly Republican black voters in the south changing to Democrat and formerly white voters in the region changing to Republican. But there is still a core of conservative Democrats in the south.

Today, about 30% of voters identify as Democrats in Arkansas but 37% identify as Independent (and please don't tell me they are socialists), and 24% as Republicans. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/01/21/215122/as-independent-voters-numbers.html What that means is that 61% are not Democrats. Of those that are, most are conservative Democrats:

Arkansas is the 9th most conservative state out of 50: http://www.businessinsider.com/most...-2#9-arkansas-tie--453-percent-conservative-1

All that means that it is illogical and not rational to believe their is a state or county-level anti-Tea party, anti-homeschooler, pro-tax or anti-religious conspiracy afoot to harm this particular family. It simply makes zero sense. None at all. It makes zero sense that an independent sheriff elected by tea partiers, would go after one of his constituents in this way. Nah.

Perhaps to someone who is unfamiliar with Arkansas politics it is easy to assume there is no difference between social conservatism and fiscal conservatism but there is very much a distinction in Arkansas. Arkansas does not require party affiliation to be declared when registering to vote. Last I checked with my family in Arkansas, they still voted for the person and not just because they were affiliated with a particular political party.

I also don't consider a county of 100,000 residents to be "rural."

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

See the first page of the thread. The sheriff is now saying MMS has nothing to do with the case.

Yet he managed to persuade a Judge that a search warrant was justified. Lotsa back peddling already and more to come, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

Yep. My state and federal taxes support public schools for two kids even as only one of my children attends public school. Next year I will have no children attending public schools and yet my tax dollars will continue to support public schools. My private dollars will support the private schools my children attend. Further, people without school age children who pay state and federal tax, are also supporting public schools.

I do get the point that public schools are also getting grants and federal funding based on numbers attending their schools and private or homeschooling removes numbers from that pool of federal daily attendance dollars. But honestly, I find a conspiracy between sheriff and feds for the grant dollars brought about because of at most 7 students, well, difficult to follow.

The father in this case claims to be a minister. If he is using his home as a "church" then he is no different than the Duggars (also in Arkansas) and is not paying any property taxes.

Stanley, a Southern Baptist preacher, said he and his wife, who works as a midwife, center everything in their lives around their home: Home births, home schooling, home church.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ts-over-the-dangerous-miracle-supplement-mms/

 

[K_Z]

After watching the adult son's interview, and the youtube of the parents and neighbor, I'm increasingly convinced that this is a case of religious child maltreatment. IMO, the adult son loves his parents and siblings, and believes his parents "truly" believe that their approaches to some aspects of parenting are "correct", but that they are tremendously misguided. He went out of his way to express his love, but NOT express his support for their behaviors (and didn't elaborate on the behaviors). I think it is very telling that he is stepping back and allowing the system to investigate the situation, and handle the housing and fostering of his siblings. That's huge, IMO. I think it's possible he was in on this before LE arrived at the parents' home. He seems pretty calm, almost relieved in his interview-- not angry or panicked at all.

This is typical of extremist religious child maltreatment--the parent truly believes that whatever they are doing, their manipulative parenting approach, or abusive disciplinary techniques, are done in the name of God and saving the soul of the wayward children, therefore they are justified and vindicated. Breaking the will of the rebellious child to bend to the will of the parent, is a consistent theme. I'm hearing that loud and clear here-- from the father, the mother, the adult son, etc. And yet no one has described any specific behaviors of the "teens" that are unlawful or self destructive, drugs, criminal, etc.

I don't believe there is a vast conspiracy from the courts, LE, and DHS, and the adult son, to scapegoat the parents. There is something profoundly odd and uncomfortable going on here, IMO-- and it's not about the parents homeschooling, or believing in the Bible, or even the MMS usage-- which is pure quackery, IMO-- and profoundly dangerous. Everything I'm hearing is more like the extremism of brainwashing and psychological manipulation that occurs in cults, IMO.

A child can definitely be maltreated, or even abused, and not show a single bruise, scratch, or mark. That's what I think has been established by the court hearing continuing the DHS custody situation.

http://religiouschildmaltreatment.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_abuse

 

[RaeL]

See the first page of the thread. The sheriff is now saying MMS has nothing to do with the case.

Actually, sheriffs office said there were a number of factors (not excluding MMS)
http://www.christianpost.com/news/7...ce-say-it-was-for-alleged-child-abuse-132902/

"There have been a number of reports in various media outlets the decision was made to remove the minor children from the residence based on one contributing factor of chemical known as 'MMS' or 'Miracle Mineral Supplement,' this is absolutely false," the department's statement reads. "[T]here was a number of different factors and investigators felt they had no choice but to intervene in the best interest of the minor children."

 

[SStarr33]

It's strange to me how there can be "religious abuse" and the children can be removed from the home and children are allowed to stay in homes when they can't read at grade level. What is the official name of that kind of "abuse"?

Officials: Most NYC High School Grads Need Remedial Help Before Entering CUNY Community Colleges
Basic Skills Like Reading, Writing And Math Need To Be Re-Learned

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03...help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/

How come those kids aren't removed from their homes? Maybe because they stay in the schools and the the money keeps flowing in?

 

[Sulamith]

It is possible the parents disciplined the kids using techniques from the book "To Train Up a Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl and the child was injured.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ano...f-murder-for-parenting-by-to-train-up-a-child

Maybe an exorcism was done and a child was injured.

 

[RT51]

An example of religious abuse: I once had a friend who became very involved in a Christian Church. I have no problem with that, only how they interpreted the bible. We were over at their house, and their daughter did some minor infraction. The next thing I know, the mother has pulled out a dowel and is hitting her child on the butt with it. I questioned why, and she explained that the bible says you only love with your hand, therefore a stick must be used to punish. So I guess it's ok for that loving hand to hold a weapon.

 

[gitana1]

In my state, if the student isn't enrolled in public school, the public school district does not receive the portion of taxes. Instead, it goes into a general fund. I don't know how Arkansas does it but my guess is this issue is about $$$$$ and has nuthin to do with kids being abused.

JMO

Why pick on these 7 out of about 15,000 homeschoolers in the state? I just don;t see how it makes sense.

Perhaps to someone who is unfamiliar with Arkansas politics it is easy to assume there is no difference between social conservatism and fiscal conservatism but there is very much a distinction in Arkansas. Arkansas does not require party affiliation to be declared when registering to vote. Last I checked with my family in Arkansas, they still voted for the person and not just because they were affiliated with a particular political party.

I also don't consider a county of 100,000 residents to be "rural."

JMO

I know the difference between fiscal and social conservatism. Arkansas is across the board conservative in all areas today, although it has been more socially conservative than fiscally throughout the years. This family's struggle appeals to both social conservatives and fiscal ones.

Rural means countryside and a lower population. LA county has 10 million residents, Cook county IL has 5,194,675. Shelby county TN has 927,644. Pulaski county Arkansas has 391,284.

Yeah, Garland county has a low, rural population:

Rural:
What is rural? For us, rural areas are those areas...

1. that are not in a Metropolitan area at all (Nonmetropolitan area).

1. with total population of less than 50,000. No city, town or place within the area has population of 50,000 and total population of area is less than 50,000. [Hot Springs itself has only about 35,000 people].

1. with large expanses of undeveloped or agricultural land, dotted by small towns, villages, or any other small activity clusters.

1. places where there is lots of open countryside. Houses are spaced far apart. There aren't a lot of streets. Traffic is light. There are few stores and businesses.

1. Places with populations of less than 2,500 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/...ral-place-Community-Poll-Demographic-Tuesdays

 

[gitana1]

It's strange to me how there can be "religious abuse" and the children can be removed from the home and children are allowed to stay in homes when they can't read at grade level. What is the official name of that kind of "abuse"?

Officials: Most NYC High School Grads Need Remedial Help Before Entering CUNY Community Colleges
Basic Skills Like Reading, Writing And Math Need To Be Re-Learned

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03...help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/

How come those kids aren't removed from their homes? Maybe because they stay in the schools and the the money keeps flowing in?

Good point.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I wonder if the kids were given an option as to being homeschooled & their religion whatnot. There are many great homeschool programs but there really are some kids that don't wish to be homeschooled. I wonder if these kids were presented with an option (homeschool, religion, medicines, etc) and if not then did they express their disagreement? If they did then how was it met by their parents? Children have a right. Period plain & simple. Most of the time parents have their children's best interest at heart but sometimes a child's interests and beliefs aren't the same as their parents. It is up to a good parent to meet their child somewhere in the middle. I foresee a day to come where laws change that absolutely give the child options to make their own choices, not about everything but some things such as their schooling and vitamins, etc.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

It's strange to me how there can be "religious abuse" and the children can be removed from the home and children are allowed to stay in homes when they can't read at grade level. What is the official name of that kind of "abuse"?

Officials: Most NYC High School Grads Need Remedial Help Before Entering CUNY Community Colleges
Basic Skills Like Reading, Writing And Math Need To Be Re-Learned

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03...help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/

How come those kids aren't removed from their homes? Maybe because they stay in the schools and the the money keeps flowing in?

Also, maybe these kids are pushed through the public school system bc the teachers are afraid of losing their jobs. If a teacher has a certain percentage of kids in their class that are failing or have low D's, if that percentage is fairly high, then that teacher may be deemed as not very good at their job. Most of the time it's bc the children they're teaching just flat out don't care bc they have horrible or dysfunctional family lives. All kinds of things factor into why children need extra help in school & most of the time it's not anywhere near bc they have a learning disability. The kids aren't removed from their homes probably bc there's no place to put them. The teachers probably pass these kids bc they don't want to be reprimanded by losing a job or being demoted. Any way it's sliced the child loses. It sucks.

Then again, there's a few kids that actually do go to school to learn bc they know they want a better life in their future as compared to the dysfunction they have at home growing up.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

If this is true that the kid did something that could hurt himself just bc he want to go to public school then shame on his dad for not listening hard enough before hand. Homeschool isn't for everyone no matter what argument is brought to the table. The same goes for public school. However a child that is a teenager of that age should certainly have some kind of say in the matter for sure. For the parent to say they want to protect their teen from the stuff in public schooling just isn't enough IMO when the teen is almost of age and should certainly have a decision in the matter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ts-over-the-dangerous-miracle-supplement-mms/

By Abby Phillip January 21

Court documents, he said, indicate that the 16-year-old boy reported bringing the MMS bottle to a friend’s house and then coughed for several hours after smelling it. But Stanley suspects that the boy may have inhaled a different chemical used for the aquaponics system, and that he used the incident to try to get out of his parents’ homeschooling program.

“The two teenagers, the top two — they wanted to go to public school,” Hal Stanley said. “And of course, we’ve insisted that they have a home-schooled education. But I think they were used.

“Instead of demanding that we put them in public school, they just arrested them and put them in public school. All the things we’ve wanted to protect them from in public school – they just totally against our wishes put them in public school.”

He added: “I assure you that we love our children, and we did nothing but try to give them the best life possible.”

 

[Jersey*Girl]

This is so bass ackwards that its not even funny. You can legally get your license at 14 in Arkansas but you can't choose whether to be homeschooled or not? Wth?

http://www.dfa.arkansas.gov/offices/driverServices/Pages/FAQ's.aspx

Licenses - 14 to 18 Years Old

If under 18, you will need to take a birth certificate, proof of enrollment in school, proof of grade point average of at least 2.0 and a parent or legal guardian to the testing site. If you are under 18 but have graduated from high school, you will need to show proof of your graduation (diploma) at the testing site. (For additional requirements and locations of testing sites, contact the Arkansas State Police at 501-618-8251.)

All persons 14 to 18 years of age must hold an A restriction (adult in car) for a minimum of 6 months before driving unrestricted. The six month time period begins on the date the person passes the written exam (the date the learner's permit is issued by the state police examiner).

Any person applying for a driver's license is required to show proof of legal presence and submit ONE Primary Document and ONE Secondary Document or TWO Primary Documents from the list. A primary document must contain the full name and date of birth and must be verifiable, i.e., you must be able to contact the issuing agency to determine authenticity of the document.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Bleach is essentially chlorine and chlorine is to purify water. In 'Nam we couldn't drink the water without adding chlorine tablets.

O/T:
I never knew you were a Vietnam vet Tracker!
Thank you for your service. Your selflessness and service to our country are greatly appreciated.

O/T #2:
I've always enjoyed your no nonsense, down to earth, good, common sense posts. Now I have a much better understanding of the "why".

I 2nd that!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

From the beginning posted article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ts-over-the-dangerous-miracle-supplement-mms/

From doing some research people do inhale MMS for ailments. The son must have known this and there was a incident at a friends house that was brought to the attention of authorities.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ts-over-the-dangerous-miracle-supplement-mms/


Responding to a poster earlier, MMS was not the "sole" reason for the removal of the children from the home, but it is part of the investigation.

The older son in the video, pretty much covered the rest of what my thoughts were concerning these actions taken. Parents sometimes have certain beliefs that are not necessarily what is best for the children and can be in fact harmful, even though parents think they are doing what is best for their children.

In all reality, cigarette smoke isn't good for kids either yet alot of parents smoke right in front of their kids, in their homes, without opening a window, and their kids inhale that smoke - yet those kids aren't taken away from their parents. So I'm curious how MMS can play a factor into this when MMS is still being sold on the net as I type this. Now I read that spanking could play a part. These parents honestly don't seem abusive. So I do wonder if this is all bc a couple of their kids didn't want to be homeschooled anymore so decided to play up all the negatives. Just an idea but no kid likes to be spanked or smacked, I know I didn't. There's a huge difference where abuse is concerned though. So what was the limit of discipline in this case?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20150123/2480337/Kids-Removed.htm

TRANSCRIPT: KIDS REMOVED

((kevin)) seven children taken from their home following a search for a dangerous oral liquid known as miracle mineral solution -- or mss -- will remain in d-hs custody and foster care. the ruling made at a proable cause hearing this afternoon. fox16's josh berry -- at the hearing -- and joins us with more on the judges ruling.. ((josh)) yeah kevin -- sources tell me credible testimony given in court by family members alleged physical abuse. the judge decided there was probable cause to take the children at the time of the search last week at their home in garland county and there still is enough probable cause to keep the children. overall information on the case is very limited... the judge issued a gag order in the first day of court yesterday.but it was evident when hal stanley left the garland county courts building this afternoon in tears.saying this is unbelievable as he went home without his seven children.the stanley's attorney filed a motion saying law enforcement targeted his clients' lifestyle -- rather than factual allegations.i spoke with one of the stanley's older children who has since left the house... he says there's more than one side of the story and law enforcement's approach to this case may have been appropriate. ((ááásotááá)) ((Christopher Stanley/Stanley's Child in College))"There's many cases where children really do need to be considered and they need to be taken first while the investigation is under way. i don't think it's fair to attack the department or the parents because they're just acting like parents." ((josh))according to d-h-s -- parents in these types of situations may be able to take recommendations from the courts and work to address concerns before the next hearing.that will take place mid february. ((kevin)) what about the kids -- where are they and will the parents be allowed to see them between now and the next hearing?he did say that maybe the parents could learn some lessons about parenting... but who couldn't. law enforcement was doing their duty to respond to calls about serious concerns for the children's wellbeing... it may make them look like the bad guy.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

In all reality, cigarette smoke isn't good for kids either yet alot of parents smoke right in front of their kids, in their homes, without opening a window, and their kids inhale that smoke - yet those kids aren't taken away from their parents. So I'm curious how MMS can play a factor into this when MMS is still being sold on the net as I type this. Now I read that spanking could play a part. These parents honestly don't seem abusive. So I do wonder if this is all bc a couple of their kids didn't want to be homeschooled anymore so decided to play up all the negatives. Just an idea but no kid likes to be spanked or smacked, I know I didn't. There's a huge difference where abuse is concerned though. So what was the limit of discipline in this case?

I don't know where the MMS is coming from that can be purchased on the net. My guess is Canada or somewhere out of the US. They also call it other things now, since there has been legal action taken against those that were selling it here. It kind of reminds me of how things like bath salts and spice have been marketed but used for other purposes.

I went down the rabbit hole reading about it last night. The crazy is huge surrounding this "poison" that is marketed as a cure for everything. The people that use it, strongly believe in it. The founder markets it behind a religious organization. Using the religious marketing ploy, may help it to appeal to those that are against any kind of conventional medicine or are willing to believe if there is a religious name attached to it, it must be a good thing.

In the video the parents and neighbor made, the mother talks of the children being afraid to be examined by doctors because they have never been to places like that. I think the statements that the parents made about the MMS usage is a little hinky and they are trying to act as though they are naive about it. It's one piece of the puzzle as to why they are being investigated. If they parents don't get medical care for the children then it can be a red flag a a recipe for disaster, if one were to become gravely ill. We have seen parents in other cases that wouldn't get medical care for their children, due to their beliefs. Like I said, this is just one piece to investigate. It may or may not play a part in the painting of a larger picture.

The mother also mentions being questioned about their van being packed up as though there have were allegations that they would flee with the children. Another piece that needs further investigation.

If there are allegations of "any" kind of abuse, they need to be investigated. Abuse can also be psychological.

http://humanservices.arkansas.gov/dcfs/dcfspublications/pub-357.pdf

It is common for kids to want to spread their wings when they get to a certain age. I imagine that there would be quite a power struggle in a household environment that is very strict, controlling and isolating. We have seen adults go to extremes when control is challenged by a spouse or child in the home. Teens may not want to share the same beliefs as their parents.

Whatever the allegations may be, it is best that they are thoroughly investigated for the safely of everyone in the home.

For me, there are multiple "red flags" that need to be looked into. They may or may not amount to anything, but those "red flags" are there.

Hopefully, everything can be worked out and the family can be reunited in a safe, healthy environment for all, with some assistance of counseling.

 

[K_Z]

It is common for kids to want to spread their wings when they get to a certain age. I imagine that there would be quite a power struggle in a household environment that is very strict, controlling and isolating. We have seen adults go to extremes when control is challenged by a spouse or child in the home. Teens may not want to share the same beliefs as their parents. Whatever the allegations may be, it is best that they are thoroughly investigated for the safely of everyone in the home.

For me, there are multiple "red flags" that need to be looked into. They may or may not amount to anything, but those "red flags" are there.

Respectfully snipped, and BBM for focus-- and I agree with all you posted.

I'd be curious to know if the relationship between the adult son and the parents remains close and good, or if he is estranged somewhat for moving out on his own and going to school. Many of these extremely insular religious families eschew higher education and technical job training, opting instead for home-centered businesses, seasonal self-employment, and sporadic low-paying entry level jobs. His comments were very measured, and respectful toward his parents, but undeniably he feels that there is something going on that is not good for the children still at home.

 

[K_Z]

http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20150123/2480337/Kids-Removed.htm

TRANSCRIPT: KIDS REMOVED

From the video at the link, I was glad to hear that authorities were able to keep the kids together in one foster home, and clearly approve of keeping the kids together. That's a good thing for the kids, IMO-- and also tends to add some info that perhaps the two eldest teens are not viewed as "rebellious" by authorities in a manner such that they need to be separated from the younger children.

The video also contains info that the parents are allowed a 4 hour visit each week-- presumably supervised, at this point. So the parents are not being kept entirely away from the children during the ongoing investigation.