AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #3

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  • #141

Mmm, hey Mike, is doubling down really the smartest move?

Remember Ken Cuccinelli and the Duggars?

“As I train my kiddos, I tell them, we are going to be involved. We are going to make a difference for the cause of Christ,” said Duggar, the 47-year-old Arkansas mother of 19 children who has gained a dedicated following through the TLC reality show “19 Kids and Counting.” “And that is to stand for the values that God holds dear. . . . And we need to get behind those candidates that believe those values and help them to win.”
...
The tour, sponsored by the Family Research Council’s political arm, started in Lynchburg and ended in Woodbridge in Prince William County, with stops in Richmond, Virginia Beach and Fredericksburg. The family spoke passionately about faith, family and freedom — plus abortion, education, health care, birth control and home schooling. The kids played religious tunes on violins and cellos and bowed their heads in prayer.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...53b77a-35eb-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html

That rhetoric didn't work then and it sure as hell isn't going to work now. Not that I'd ever vote for you anyway. :peace:
 
  • #142
Well put.

Honestly, can we talk about parental lack of supervision? Popping out 19 kids whom you cannot appropriately care for, blame the messenger when the skeletons fall out of your Fibber McGee closet, and expect all will accept feeble excuses and happy sweet life goes on uninterrupted - because all is right with God.

Well if that don't work throw mom under the bus with her baggage.

ciao
 
  • #143
I want to say something here that might make some people feel really uncomfortable, but I think it's important to talk about, because it is another relaity of sexual abuse that is overlooked and not wellunderstood by most people. One of the things that can make sexual abuse so confusing for children is that it isn't always terrifying. Very often, in fact, it feels good. This can cause all kinds of confusing feelings--especially once the child grows older and starts to process what really happened to them and what it all meant.

Sometimes, especially in a chaotic family where mom and dad are kind of absent or distant, the sexual abuse can seem like physical affection. An older trusted brother is showing affection or giving them attention. It may feel good. But maybe the perpetrator says never to tell anyone because they will get in trouble--and then they get the idea that this is something shameful and secret, but they don't know exactly why. These are children--so they know on one level that someone touching their privates is wrong, but they don't know all the reasons why this is so and it's a trusted older brother or other relative and it's not necessarily scary or painful--so it's very confusing.

Once the victim figures out what happened to them--they feel guilty--because maybe it felt good. This can happen with women who are educated and feminist and would never blame the victim--but somehow their little girl brain processes all of this as "consensual" even though a 9 year old doesn't ever consent to a 14 or 15 year old. Think about how messed up that would be in a home like the Duggars, where there's already plenty of blaming the victim talk and "defrauding."

Excellent post. I've pondered in my mind for a good long while if it actually qualifies as sexual abuse because it's done by a child to a child (not shaming or questioning anyones experience, it happened to me). Your post makes so much sense and gives me some validation. Thank you. :)
 
  • #144
Excellent post. I've pondered in my mind for a good long while if it actually qualifies as sexual abuse because it's done by a child to a child (not shaming or questioning anyones experience, it happened to me). Your post makes so much sense and gives me some validation. Thank you. :)

The girls were sleeping, theorectically. And he was 15 when he molested the five year old. His behavior kept escalating. By definition, those are crimes
 
  • #145
Huckabee even went so far as to, when Kelly pointed out Josh Duggar confessed, say he didn’t do it in a court of law, and “the law does not hold him accountable even if he confesses.”

Oh, okay then. Nothing to see here folks, move along. No harm done. If the law don't hold you accountable, ain't no one should hold you accountable.

He railed against the release of the police report in the first place and said he was “just stunned and shocked” by how the victims were “exploited” by the media.

Exploited by the media, were they? The same media they didn't really mind being exploited by with a TV show following them around as long as the $ kept rolling in?

This guy thinks he has what it takes to be president? Seriously? Really?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/huckabee-defends-duggars-to-megyn-kelly-victims-exploited-by-the-media/
 
  • #146
CNN International covering this case right now, seem to be saying he's unlikely to offend again since there have been no more victims. That we know of, of course. Now discussing FOIA, saying these documents were prohibited from disclosure.

BBM for focus, just jumping off.

I can't believe ANYONE would say this.

Just what was it, two, three short weeks ago "we" didn't know there were ANY victims. And we still wouldn't if not for the tipster who alerted InTouch, who followed up!

Who knows what other tips that might lead to other victims are being followed up on at this very moment?

SMH
 
  • #147
What they said was that when it comes to young offenders like this they rarely continue, and since Josh hasn't offended since he likely won't, however .. I don't think anyone can be sure that he stopped offending in his teens considering how keen the family is to sweep everything under the rug.
 
  • #148
Aha, looking at the stills from the Duggar sisters' interview, I think I understand the motive behind the directive for long hair.

Theoretically (or so I've read) it's to draw the attention up to the face instead of to the body, but the eye naturally wanders down in curiosity to see how long the hair actually is. And that leads to...the BOOBIES!

Try this visual experiment and see if I'm lying.
 
  • #149
Why is it that these parents disgust me exponentially more than Josh does?
 
  • #150
As I watched the interview it struck me that these two adult women were very immature and acted like 14 yr olds instead of mature young women. Obstructed development IMO.

Funny!

I am curious as to why you thought they were so immature? I think I am never a good judge of people so I am interested in what you saw.

Posters on here are so good at analyzing. I learn things I would have never thought about

I watched the girls interview last eve-- and thank you to whomever posted the Youtube link.

I have only watched the show maybe once or twice, and not a whole episode. I don't think I've ever heard the older one speak before (Jill). I had a certain impression of her as an apprentice midwife, etc.

I was also rather stunned at her level of immaturity, or perhaps socially/emotionally stunted is a better description. If I had not known it was a 24 year old woman speaking (one who is a celebrity and accustomed to cameras and public speaking), I would have guessed she was an awkward middle school student-- same for the younger girl, Jessa. Jessa is the more confident of the two, but sounded quite coached to me-- and quite determined to get her "talking points" in. She wasn't listening and empathizing with her sister's tears and anguish-- she was waiting her turn to blurt out her coached/ rehearsed phrases, IMO, with indignance.

I'm very sorry for what they went thru (and are still going thru) in that family, but this interview was pure exploitation, IMO. Perhaps they chose to exploit themselves-- but FOX/ MK should have morally and ethically declined to interview them about this, IMO. But the potential notoriety/ ratings was just too much temptation for the network, the reporter, and the celebrities.

Certain key phrases ("talking points") emerge and become apparent, IMO, in the interviews and public statements of the girls, as well as their parents. This family clearly has handlers and crisis management professionals shaping their language and their message, IMO. I don't think they should have given these 2 interviews-- their own words and mannerisms are much worse for their image than when they were not speaking publicly about it, IMO.

1. Josh was "a child", a "curious child/ adolescent/ boy". No mention of Josh as a MAN is ever made now, not any mention of him going public to explain himself or express public remorse, repair the family's image, defend his parent's actions, nor how he is dealing with this privately right now. The emphasis continues to be on protecting and excusing the BOY. The MAN apparently doesn't exist at all at the moment. He is an invisible coward, IMO-- content to let mama, papa, and his sister victims defend him.

2. The persistent use of the word "mistake" to describe Josh's actions. Many families of criminals use this term to defend or support their criminal loved one. "Mistake" deflects any personal responsibility, or ability to exercise self control, or project consequences, or empathy for victims. Things just "happen". Though situations and crimes sometimes happen over and over, they are still just "mistakes." And the most important thing about characterizing intentional acts as "mistakes" is that they should be forgiven, because they "just didn't mean to hurt anyone." Poor Josh-- he is the real victim in all this-- that is the message.

3. The terms "handled", "handling it", "when it was being handled", etc. It was "dealt with", handled, and over. No recognition or reflection that the WAY it was "handled" was less than ideal.

4. The not-so-subtle shifting of the molestation issue, to the issue of requesting and the RELEASE of the information, and the blame for that occurring, is painted as MUCH WORSE than what Josh did, or how JB & M chose to "handle it." Slipping in the Bauer companies, etc. The family is definitely shifting from defending Josh and deflecting the behavior, to full on "righteous indignation" toward the ones who requested and publicized the information. The can salve their wounds with the righteous indignation of pointing their fingers at the media and those who released the information. They can be righteously sanctimonious up on their high horse again, united in their anger against "them" who embarrassed the family (and cut into their $$$ flow). Nice distraction and deflection of the real issues, which are just too painful to face while wearing the scratchy and uncomfortable haircloth cloak of hypocrisy.

5. The extreme efforts to minimize and deflect-- "it wasn't THAT bad", "Josh isn't a rapist", many other families deal with this, it was only a few seconds, the girls were clothed, the under clothes was brief, the girls were asleep/ don't remember it/ didn't understand any of it, JB & M put locks on the doors and set new rules, etc.

6. The odd preachy references to Josh's "heart". As in, "his heart was still soft". I'm aware that this is religious speak/ religious colloquialisms, but it's odd in regular conversation, nonetheless. It's preachy. The kind of thing a priest/ pastor/ reverend would phrase in their sermonizing, IMO.
 
  • #151
Why is it that these parents disgust me exponentially more than Josh does?
Because they didn't do the right thing in the beginning and continue to use lies, cover ups, deception, and distraction all to save their "perfect parenting image"? Throw all the females under the bus because males are never held to the same standards. Imo
 
  • #152
Why is it that these parents disgust me exponentially more than Josh does?

I think you should give him a chance, he hasn't spoken yet, I'm sure he's equally disgusting ;)
 
  • #153
What they said was that when it comes to young offenders like this they rarely continue, and since Josh hasn't offended since he likely won't, however .. I don't think anyone can be sure that he stopped offending in his teens considering how keen the family is to sweep everything under the rug.

And...Actually... The way I see it....

He is already a repeat offender because he kept offending after being disciplined... And escalated his abuses and risk taking, as well...

All... JMO
 
  • #154
  • #155
SPRINGDALE (KFSM)- The mayor of Springdale released a statement Monday (June 8) in response to suggestions of misconduct by Police Chief Kathy O’Kelley after the police department released an incident report regarding sexual molestation allegations that were made against Josh Duggar of “19 Kids & Counting.”

In his statement, Mayor Doug Sprouse writes:

“The City will not dignify suggestions of misconduct in this matter by Chief O’Kelley with any comment beyond labeling them as outrageous and categorically false. Chief O’Kelley is a dedicated public servant whose career in law enforcement has been committed to duty and the adherence to the law.”

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/08/n...says-about-release-of-duggar-incident-report/

But I guess unfounded slander is the best defense.
 
  • #156
Oh, okay then. Nothing to see here folks, move along. No harm done. If the law don't hold you accountable, ain't no one should hold you accountable.



Exploited by the media, were they? The same media they didn't really mind being exploited by with a TV show following them around as long as the $ kept rolling in?

This guy thinks he has what it takes to be president? Seriously? Really?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/huckabee-defends-duggars-to-megyn-kelly-victims-exploited-by-the-media/



Does Huckabee extend the same logic elsewhere? If you haven't been convicted of any crime, there's no wrongdoing? You can steal, rape and murder and anything goes as long as you cover your tracks and get away with it?

How about those gays then... shouldn't it be quite all right since the law does nothing about it?
 
  • #157
  • #158
Guess he's got money to blow . Political suicide for sure. I guess now the story will be only mean nasty liberals are against Duggars, but republicans are tough on crime. Let's see the spin!


I think that might be '...Republicans are tough on crime.'---perhaps only of a certain kind. Child molestation is 'aww shucks Jesus forgives you man, so do we.'
 
  • #159
  • #160
His baggage comment makes me sick. I don't even want to speculate on where it is stemming from.

I just hope that if something bad did happen to her, that he doesn't blame her and she doesn't blame herself or feel some sort of guilt for the other persons crimes.

If by chance this were the case, then she could greatly benefit from some good counseling so that she can effectively deal with her own children's situation.

I think she they both could benefit from some good counseling regardless.
Bear in mind though that women aren't really supposed to have premarital relationships at all. P/QF favors courtship as made famous within their circle by Josh Harris who wrote the book 'I Kissed Dating Goodbye' - he's now left his church (he was leader without any theologian training to enter a seminary) and walked back his principles a bit after patriarchy ran amok with the concept of a father controlling his daughter's romantic relationships. In courting, a young man approaches the girl's father to ask permission to court. They'll be allowed to see each other and speak on the phone at a schedule designed by her father. Her father will tell them what physical interaction is allowed and when it is allowed - even holding hands. Kissing is looked down upon but lots of people do understand that when engaged, most people don't wait for their wedding day to kiss, as long as they're engaged there isn't a lot of fuss. If the boy and girl get along, the boy goes to the father to ask permission to marry. An arbitrary deadline is sometimes decided by dad. All outings require a chaperone (which is why you see a lot of double dates with siblings and/or parents) even if not romantic. It's believed if you have a chaperone, you won't break any spiritual rules.

So, as far as Michelle goes, nothing had to happen to her except she dated some guys who weren't fundie and because of her poor choices, it led to her having baggage. I can guarantee she blames herself for not having enough respect for herself, not trusting in God's will enough, etc. There will be some warped self-blaming somewhere because that's how P/QF functions - it works as though it's an emotionally abusive relationship - isolationism, grand promises of a better future, psychological abuse, mental gymnastics, brainwashing, control, using what the victim loves most as a weapon against them, manipulation, etc.

It's ground into them from the start that any unhappiness, illness, tragedy that befalls them is because they aren't solid enough in their spirituality. And like any victim in any abusive relationship, it causes them to work even harder to be 'good'. They become trapped in a cycle and that cycle becomes normalized. Some will someday 'wake up' and leave the movement (many walk away from faith altogether) while others won't. People within the movement will still, and do still, look to the Duggars as a shining example of their movement gone right and seek to emulate them. In the same way, child abuse is propagated because some believe (or are pushed to believe) that forcing cheerful, first time obedience is their duty as parents, by any means necessary. And that cheerful obedience is why we often see kids like the Duggars always, always smiling. As a kid, it's pushed onto you that you are a messenger for God and as such, must always appear cheerful in doing the lord's work.

I think Michelle is probably beyond counseling but I'd like to be wrong about that. She's so steeped in self-blame, denial, crazy-making, gaslighting and a whole lot of other psychological manipulation she couldn't see what's best for her children if it landed on her.

JMO and FWIW
 
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