AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #3

[bluesneakers]

Another reason Josh would never go to, say, a 12 step based recovery program is this. In AA, we CHOOSE OUR OWN CONCEPTION OF GOD. This would be unthinkable and heretic for IFB quiverfullofsht types.

From now on I will only ever refer to it as quiverfullofsht. Thank you.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Another reason Josh would never go to, say, a 12 step based recovery program is this. In AA, we CHOOSE OUR OWN CONCEPTION OF GOD. This would be unthinkable and heretic for IFB quiverfullofsht types.

This is a bit O/T, but on the subject of addiction treatment, there was a fascinating article a few months back in The Atlantic regarding the efficacy of 12-step programs, all of which are based on AA, to treat addiction.

One morsel for thought (I'm paraphrasing): If alcoholism is a disease, as AA maintains, why do the 12 steps focus so much on healing the frailties of the sufferer and none on furthering medical treatment?

Our medical system doesn't treat any other disease, not even--at least these days--mental illness, as some sort of weakness on the part of one who suffers it.

Again, fascinating reading.

 

[T4Tide]

You don't have to prove it to me. A friend of a friend of mine says someone he worked with who came in contact with Jared Fogle semi-regularly claimed Fogle always gave him the creeps, although apparently no one else got that vibe and thought my FOAF's coworker was full of it.

Yet whaddya know, the coworker was the one who was right on the money.

A lot of times our guts are smarter than our brains, if only we were trained to listen just as carefully to them.

Sorta OT... Years and years ago, my cousin had a college roommate. Since my cousin was a couple of hours away from his family, my mom would invite him over to eat dinner with us frequently. His roommate, Psycho*, used to come with him a good bit. Well, Psycho and I didn't exactly hit it off. My mom said I was just being ugly and I didn't like him because he was the "life of the party." Umm...no, I just got the oddest feeling about him. Anyway, Psycho was involved in our family for years. My cousin and he both met their wives at college and married after graduation. Then tragedy struck. Psycho had testicular cancer. He got pretty sick, passing out from weakness, developing an infection from the radiation to his :nut:. Lost his hair. Around this time, I had also married and moved 3 hours away. My mom would keep me updated on the trials and triumphs of Psycho's battle with cancer.

Then, one day my mom called and said, "I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that Psycho's in remission. The bad news is HE NEVER HAD CANCER IN THE FIRST PLACE!"

And then that sweet, three word phrase followed:

"You were right." :biglaugh:

Anyway, it's a long, long story about how it all came to light, but ever since I have trusted that gut feeling if someone makes me feel wary. Sometimes I can't even really put my finger on what bothers me about them, but I stay far away if they don't "feel right."

* Name has been changed to protect the integrity of all the sane, normal people out there that bear the same given name.

 

[MsMarple]

Things I learned from the Duggars:

- I'm a banged up bicycle left in a ditch.

- I'm a used piece of gum that got passed around.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to sit quietly on a blanket for long periods.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to shut up and go to sleep.

- Sperm causes cancer and STD's unless you're married.

- If I'm sexually assaulted it's likely my fault.

- If I'm sexually assaulted by my brother it's likely my fault.

- If the assaulter asks for forgiveness I damn well better forgive him.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Dang! You did it again - I'm just too slow on the keyboard. Owe me a coke!

Never get into a keyboard race with someone who won the typing award four years in a row back when there were actual manual typewriters.

These keyboards today! You kids have it so easy! Get off my lawn! :lol:

We now return to the regularly scheduled topic.:blushing:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Things I learned from the Duggars:

- I'm a banged up bicycle left in a ditch.

- I'm a used piece of gum that got passed around.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to sit quietly on a blanket for long periods.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to shut up and go to sleep.

- Sperm causes cancer and STD's unless you're married.

- If I'm sexually assaulted it's likely my fault.

- If I'm sexually assaulted by my brother it's likely my fault.

- If the assaulter asks for forgiveness I damn well better forgive him.

You forgot you're also a cup of spit.
Just trying to help.

 

[bluesneakers]

This is a bit O/T, but on the subject of addiction treatment, there was a fascinating article a few months back in The Atlantic regarding the efficacy of 12-step programs, all of which are based on AA, to treat addiction.

One morsel for thought (I'm paraphrasing): If alcoholism is a disease, as AA maintains, why do the 12 steps focus so much on healing the frailties of the sufferer and none on furthering medical treatment?

Our medical system doesn't treat any other disease, not even--at least these days--mental illness, as some sort of weakness on the part of one who suffers it.

Again, fascinating reading.

IME the mental health system treats addiction as an illness, not a weakness. But I think the general public believes 12-step programs are the go to for all addictions. (I have my doubts about those programs and look forward to finding the article you mention.)

 

[bluesneakers]

Things I learned from the Duggars:

- I'm a banged up bicycle left in a ditch.

- I'm a used piece of gum that got passed around.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to sit quietly on a blanket for long periods.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to shut up and go to sleep.

- Sperm causes cancer and STD's unless you're married.

- If I'm sexually assaulted it's likely my fault.

- If I'm sexually assaulted by my brother it's likely my fault.

- If the assaulter asks for forgiveness I damn well better forgive him.

I learned if you want your husband to notice the woman with long legs wearing a short skirt you should tell him "Nike" when she walks by.

 

[MsMarple]

Never get into a keyboard race with someone who won the typing award four years in a row back when there were actual manual typewriters.

These keyboards today! You kids have it so easy! Get off my lawn! :lol:

We now return to the regularly scheduled topic.:blushing:

Hahaha! I bow to your keyboard wizardry! I learned (or tried to) on a manual typewriter too but I sucked. And even the invention of that newfangled marvel of modern technology - the IBM Selectric Composer with interchangeable fonts - didn't help.
Sorry for the derailment y'all. I needed a breath of fresh air right about now. Thanks IzzyBlanche! :loveyou:

 

[flourish]

Never get into a keyboard race with someone who won the typing award four years in a row back when there were actual manual typewriters.

These keyboards today! You kids have it so easy! Get off my lawn! :lol:

We now return to the regularly scheduled topic.:blushing:

[video=youtu;HL5J06-fXbg]http://youtu.be/HL5J06-fXbg[/video]
Click Clack, Moo


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[IzzyBlanche]

IME the mental health system treats addiction as an illness, not a weakness. But I think the general public believes 12-step programs are the go to for all addictions. (I have my doubts about those programs and look forward to finding the article you mention.)

Well but...the article makes the point that even the mental health system treats addiction as if 12-step programs are the go-to for all addictions. Even though they are faith-based not science based.

Here's a link to the article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

On one hand I'm not convinced by any means that Josh is in fact a addict. I actually don't know if addiction is a recognized disorder in the DSM, does anyone know?

On the other hand, if he is, a 12-step based program isn't likely to help him, according to the efficacy rates of such as described in the article.

 

[MsMarple]

Well but...the article makes the point that even the mental health system treats addiction as if 12-step programs are the go-to for all addictions. Even though they are faith-based not science based.

Here's a link to the article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

On one hand I'm not convinced by any means that Josh is in fact a addict. I actually don't know if addiction is a recognized disorder in the DSM, does anyone know?

On the other hand, if he is, a 12-step based program isn't likely to help him, according to the efficacy rates of such as described in the article.

RBBM

I don't own a copy but according to the American Psychological Association, apparently not:

When the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) was being drafted, experts considered a proposed diagnostic addiction called hypersexual disorder, which also included a subtype. But in the end, reviewers determined that there wasn't enough evidence to include hypersexual disorder or its subtypes in the 2013 edition.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/04/🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.aspx

ETA: the article is worth a read. Seems there's no clear-cut evidence yet of an actual addiction:

If compulsive use is not a hypersexual disorder, could it be considered an addiction akin to drug or alcohol addiction? That's what Valerie Voon, MD, PhD, a neuropsychiatrist at the University of Cambridge, is exploring. By scanning the brains of compulsive users with MRI while they view erotic images, she's testing whether they show brain activity patterns similar to substance abusers viewing beer bottles or drug paraphernalia.

So far, the brains of compulsive users resemble the brains of alcoholics watching ads for a drink, reports Voon in a 2013 British documentary called " on the Brain."

Despite her early findings, Voon says it's probably too early to put compulsive users in a box with people who suffer from drug or alcohol problems. "We need more studies to clearly state that it's an addiction," she says.

Other research has turned up contrary results. Nicole Prause, PhD, a researcher in the department of psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles, and colleagues recently studied brain responses in people who have trouble regulating their consumption.

Prause used EEG to measure a brain response known as P300, which is a component of the brain's electrical activity that occurs about 300 milliseconds after viewing a stimulus. This activity increases when people are emotionally engaged with that stimulus. When people with drug addictions view drug-related images, for instance, they show a clear bump in the P300 value.

Prause used three separate scales to identify people with hypersexual problems. Then she showed them a variety of images, including sexual ones. She predicted she'd see a dose response: Those people who reported having greater difficulty controlling their use would experience a greater spike in the P300 value. "Frankly, I thought this would be a slam-dunk easy finding," she says.

Surprisingly, that was not the case. People who reported greater problems controlling use had no clear change in the P300 value related to their level of sexual problems, whether they viewed or neutral images such as food or people skiing (Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2013). "Our findings don't make them look at all like addicts," she says.

Meanwhile, a 2013 study by researchers at the University of Leicester in the United Kingdom suggests that a penchant for may be more compulsion than addiction. In a study of use among 226 men, the researchers found that certain traits — neuroticism, agreeableness, conscientiousness and obsessional checking behaviors — were correlated with high use (Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 2013). Men who have trouble resisting the lure of websites might simply have dispositions that make them more vulnerable to compulsive problems in general, the researchers concluded.

 

[flourish]

Well but...the article makes the point that even the mental health system treats addiction as if 12-step programs are the go-to for all addictions. Even though they are faith-based not science based.

Here's a link to the article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

On one hand I'm not convinced by any means that Josh is in fact a addict. I actually don't know if addiction is a recognized disorder in the DSM, does anyone know?

On the other hand, if he is, a 12-step based program isn't likely to help him, according to the efficacy rates of such as described in the article.

Yes. I am an atheist, and not an addict, but I just can't get past the higher power part, no matter how many times people try to explain how it's not god per se, but whatever I personally define as a higher power, I'm not buying it.

I guess the fact that I grew up in institutionalized religious addiction-land had an impact, so I recognize I'm not the most unbiased.


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[Cubby]

Another reason Josh would never go to, say, a 12 step based recovery program is this. In AA, we CHOOSE OUR OWN CONCEPTION OF GOD..

rsbm

If Josh refused a traditional 12 step recovery program because it's members are free to chose their own definition of a higher power - then he is allowing his ego to protect his addiction.

Celebrate Recovery appears to have been founded because some who found AA's concept of a higher power too vague. If someone wants a Christian based recovery program tbey are out there for those truly seeking. CR being one http://www.celebraterecovery.com I'm sure there are others.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

http://reformersrecovery.com/first-step-to-recovery


Here's how they plan to change Josh:



Not sure why anyone would think it will work this time if it never worked the previous times he prayed...? I'm sure there have been lots of prayers over the years. Perhaps it is thought that suddenly and unexpectedly this is the first time he means it?

Waste of everyone's time.

Josh should just admit that fundamentalism just really isn't 'for him'. He could easily remain a Christian (if that's what he wants), divorce his wife, stay single, and continue to explore the more, shall we say, extreme elements of the sexual landscape, and be a fairly normal happy guy!

Go on Josh, take the next logical step away from this whole Quiverful nonsense.

 

[gitana1]

Things I learned from the Duggars:

- I'm a banged up bicycle left in a ditch.

- I'm a used piece of gum that got passed around.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to sit quietly on a blanket for long periods.

- Whacking an infant with a rod teaches it to shut up and go to sleep.

- Sperm causes cancer and STD's unless you're married.

- If I'm sexually assaulted it's likely my fault.

- If I'm sexually assaulted by my brother it's likely my fault.

- If the assaulter asks for forgiveness I damn well better forgive him.

- If my husband cheats or abusers me or my kids, it is my fault.

- A wife must be ready for sex at any time or her husband will get it elsewhere.

- Anyone who looks at once will become an addict and must act out the addiction by sexually assaulting someone.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Strip Club Employee Reveals Details Of Josh’s Night With Star

http://radaronline.com/photos/josh-...illon-creekside-cabaret-photos/photo/1190390/

 

[jjenny]

Waste of everyone's time.

Josh should just admit that fundamentalism just really isn't 'for him'. He could easily remain a Christian (if that's what he wants), divorce his wife, stay single, and continue to explore the more, shall we say, extreme elements of the sexual landscape, and be a fairly normal happy guy!

Go on Josh, take the next logical step away from this whole Quiverful nonsense.

And what are his four children supposed to do?

 

[JerseyGirl]

where's the intense counseling?

http://gawker.com/josh-duggar-s-sex-rehab-is-probably-just-another-chri-1726747380

 

[TorisMom003]

And what are his four children supposed to do?

Live with their mother. None of them need to be raised by Josh anyway. The girls are in danger of being molested and the boys are in danger of turning into Josh.

MOO