Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[claudicici]

...I have almost know doubt in my mind that patsy wrote this note alone without John's help....and she seems angry at him,genuinely angry and it makes me think she somehow thinks whatever happened to jonbenet is john's fault ( shifting blame?)

 

[Tadpole12]

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/8/28/193035.shtml


In Depue's opinion, "The writer is a well-educated, middle-age female. The writer used the term ‘fat cat,' suggesting that the person is middle age. ‘Fat cat' is a term used in the 1960s and 1970s. The writer," Depue said,

"is a close relative, friend, or business associate, in that order."



Depue said that conclusion and the circumstances surrounding the note fit the profile of Patricia Ramsey.

 

[BBB167893]

...I have almost know doubt in my mind that patsy wrote this note alone without John's help....and she seems angry at him,genuinely angry and it makes me think she somehow thinks whatever happened to jonbenet is john's fault ( shifting blame?)

I have often thought so.

 

[Ames]

...I have almost know doubt in my mind that patsy wrote this note alone without John's help....and she seems angry at him,genuinely angry and it makes me think she somehow thinks whatever happened to jonbenet is john's fault ( shifting blame?)

I seriously doubt that she would have had enough of her wits about her..to have written it without John's help. IMO..he helped her...and I believe ...IMO...that the words.."Listen Carefully", proves this. I believe that John was talking to Patsy when he said this, and she thought that it was part of the RN, so she wrote the words down. How in the world do you listen to something that you are reading? You can read carefully...but not listen carefully....unless someone is talking to you...which IMO...is what John was doing when Patsy wrote those words.

 

[DeeDee249]

I take Wiki with a grain of salt. Anyone can write whatever they wish there- it need not be accurate and Wiki does not check.

 

[JMO8778]

I seriously doubt that she would have had enough of her wits about her..to have written it without John's help. IMO..he helped her...and I believe ...IMO...that the words.."Listen Carefully", proves this. I believe that John was talking to Patsy when he said this, and she thought that it was part of the RN, so she wrote the words down. How in the world do you listen to something that you are reading? You can read carefully...but not listen carefully....unless someone is talking to you...which IMO...is what John was doing when Patsy wrote those words.

I think JR was either doing his part of the staging or taking a shower when Patsy wrote the final version,in which she inserted her .02 worth into the situation.And yep..she wanted it there...as proof to LE,should she need it.JR may not have even seen that final version until it was too late,too late to write another 3 pg fake RN.
The 911 call came in rather late in accordance w their previous plans,so what were they doing in that interim of time?? my guess is arguing over the note,and Patsy probably stated that she would not be writing another version of it.

 

[JMO8778]

I take Wiki with a grain of salt. Anyone can write whatever they wish there- it need not be accurate and Wiki does not check.

absolutely.It is atrocious.It's full of false info,and if an honest person comes along to edit,the ones that have taken it over change it back.Some of them do have editing rights.(along w a personal agenda,and I'm not just talking about this case!).It's more like wickedpedia.

 

[Ames]

I think JR was either doing his part of the staging or taking a shower when Patsy wrote the final version,in which she inserted her .02 worth into the situation.And yep..she wanted it there...as proof to LE,should she need it.JR may not have even seen that final version until it was too late,too late to write another 3 pg fake RN.
The 911 call came in rather late in accordance w their previous plans,so what were they doing in that interim of time?? my guess is arguing over the note,and Patsy probably stated that she would not be writing another version of it.

I bet that JR could have choked PR when (and if) he got to read the final version...when he saw that she had written the words.."listen carefully".

 

[Ames]

I take Wiki with a grain of salt. Anyone can write whatever they wish there- it need not be accurate and Wiki does not check.

That is why I never go to that site. It's a huge waste of time...

 

[mysterymax]

Here are the problems with the SFF theory as espousedby HOTYH:

1) Its true purpose. Is it or is it not a genuine ransom note? Or was it written simply to taunt the Ramseys? What kind of imbecilic kidnapper would screw up a kidnapping and leave such a letter behind? This person would be too stupid to know that the family would search the entire house from top to bottom seeking evidence. If it were written simply to taunt the Ramseys, it would be useless. If it were a note genuinely requesting needed funds, it would be useless--the poor child was dead and there wouldn't be a single penny paid. The only possible reason it could have been written by an intruder would be to distract the family from the true killer, a homicidal pedophile who managed to enter the Ramsey home unnoticed, remain there for hours unnoticed, and then slip out before the sunrise, also unnoticed. Though POSSIBLE, the IMPROBABILITY of such a scenario staggers the mind. When my son was a child, I knew that he was ill or troubled a thousand miles away, and when we were together at home I would be brought to his bedside by a single breath letting me know he didn't feel well or was having a nightmare. Did the Ramseys sleep drugged?

2) HOTYH describes a Small Foreign Faction with apparent conflicting motives--they're in the Ramsey home to execute Jon Benet AND they're in the Ramsey home to kidnap Jon Benet for ransom. If the intent was execution, a note could as easily have been left stating "We killled your daughter, you pig--check out your wine cellar." (Or no note.) If the intent was kidnapping for ransom, JBR would be gone into the night. If it were a kindapping gone wrong, better NO letter than THAT particular letter. It would have to be a Small Foreign Faction of the utmost incompetence and sheer stupidity.

Therefore: although it is possible that a SFF came in, botched the kidnapping and disappeared into the ether, it's highly IMPROBABLE. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. And that is, poor JBR was murdered by one of her own parents for reasons yet unknown.

 

[Sophie]

I seriously doubt that she would have had enough of her wits about her..to have written it without John's help. IMO..he helped her...and I believe ...IMO...that the words.."Listen Carefully", proves this. I believe that John was talking to Patsy when he said this, and she thought that it was part of the RN, so she wrote the words down. How in the world do you listen to something that you are reading? You can read carefully...but not listen carefully....unless someone is talking to you...which IMO...is what John was doing when Patsy wrote those words.

I must admit that I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I think the RN has Patsy and her drama queen/journalism major background written all over it and I imagine JR telling Patsy to write the note while he did everything else then seeing the note and saying the equivalent of 'Bloody Hell, Pats: I said write a note not a bleeding Viking Saga.' On the other hand, I see a business/military person in the semantics here and there so I find it impossible to write off John's involvement.

One thing, though, as a PDI or PKWDI, I wish Andrew Hodges had given some academic evidence for his theory.

 

[Ames]

I must admit that I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I think the RN has Patsy and her drama queen/journalism major background written all over it and I imagine JR telling Patsy to write the note while he did everything else then seeing the note and saying the equivalent of 'Bloody Hell, Pats: I said write a note not a bleeding Viking Saga.' On the other hand, I see a business/military person in the semantics here and there so I find it impossible to write off John's involvement.

One thing, though, as a PDI or PKWDI, I wish Andrew Hodges had given some academic evidence for his theory.

I believe that it was Patsy that screamed that night. She...IMO...did not MEAN to kill her daughter. I believe that it was a terrible accident...(the fractured skull)...IMO...they thought that she was already dead, because of the faint heartbeat. I believe that Patsy must have been a complete basket case. I believe that John told her what to write, she may have thrown in a few words of her own, but I believe he helped her come up with some of the ideas for the note. There is just no way that she could have done that by herself, under all of that stress. I USED to think that while she wrote it, he was staging. But, after careful thought about it...I think that it was a joint effort. (Just like their Christmas letter...and everything else that was written, Patsy stated that they wrote things together...and IMO...that included the RN).

I would like to ask any IDI out there, WHY do they believe that Patsy started typing things AFTER JB's murder? For example...Burke's teacher said that after the murder, Patsy started typing all of the correspondence to her, from Patsy. Hmmmm...why is that?

 

[DeeDee249]

I believe that it was Patsy that screamed that night. She...IMO...did not MEAN to kill her daughter. I believe that it was a terrible accident...(the fractured skull)...IMO...they thought that she was already dead, because of the faint heartbeat. I believe that Patsy must have been a complete basket case. I believe that John told her what to write, she may have thrown in a few words of her own, but I believe he helped her come up with some of the ideas for the note. There is just no way that she could have done that by herself, under all of that stress. I USED to think that while she wrote it, he was staging. But, after careful thought about it...I think that it was a joint effort. (Just like their Christmas letter...and everything else that was written, Patsy stated that they wrote things together...and IMO...that included the RN).

I would like to ask any IDI out there, WHY do they believe that Patsy started typing things AFTER JB's murder? For example...Burke's teacher said that after the murder, Patsy started typing all of the correspondence to her, from Patsy. Hmmmm...why is that?

Patsy herself had said "We didn't MEAN for this to happen". As for the typed notes after the murder vs the handwritten ones before...well, that's not too difficult to figure out is it? She didn't want her handwriting available for comparisons to the note.

 

[Tadpole12]

As I've said before, even if the DNA turns out to be connected to the crime, all it actually can prove is that someone unknown redressed JBR. Think about the statement made by one of the BPD or DA guys (I forget who just now but I bet Dave knows). This person made a statement to the effect that : "So what if Patsy wrote the note? It doesn't prove she killed the girl".

Keeping in mind JR's slip about there being a lot of people around at 3.00am, isn't it possible that they had help - someone offered to redress JBR becuae it was too upsetting for the parents?

Hi TinaD.

Keeping in mind JR's slip about there being a lot of people around at 3.00am, isn't it possible that they had help - someone offered to redress JBR becuae it was too upsetting for the parents? - TinaD

We ll, that's very interesting.

is there a source for JR's "slip up"?

I've never read of this.

Who would help the Ramsey's at 3am.
Who do you speculate were the "lot of people."
The Ramseys had their planned flight?

hmmm, any input would be apreciated.

 

[DeeDee249]

All of this is available on ACR, some in ST's book.

 

[Ames]

Patsy herself had said "We didn't MEAN for this to happen". As for the typed notes after the murder vs the handwritten ones before...well, that's not too difficult to figure out is it? She didn't want her handwriting available for comparisons to the note.

Exactly!

 

[Tadpole12]

All of this is available on ACR, some in ST's book.

Hi Dee Dee.

Thanks as always. Ya, the CandyRose site is allencompasing. I'm working my way through it, it's actually invaluable. Quite a few times I've been stuck in there for hours, it's really quite the tribute to JBR as well.

Ya, I re remembered? the '3am' slip up.

 

[icedtea4me]

Hi TinaD.

Keeping in mind JR's slip about there being a lot of people around at 3.00am, isn't it possible that they had help - someone offered to redress JBR becuae it was too upsetting for the parents? - TinaD

We ll, that's very interesting.

is there a source for JR's "slip up"?

I've never read of this.

Who would help the Ramsey's at 3am.
Who do you speculate were the "lot of people."
The Ramseys had their planned flight?

hmmm, any input would be apreciated.

KING: What did the police say? Did they say anything? Did they...
J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.
KING: They all had left? The others had left?
J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

I would need to know if he actually said the word three, or if there was an error in the transcription (i.e. someone writes an 8, but not legible enough and it winds up looking like a 3).

 

[Tadpole12]

KING: What did the police say? Did they say anything? Did they...
J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.
KING: They all had left? The others had left?
J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

I would need to know if he actually said the word three, or if there was an error in the transcription (i.e. someone writes an 8, but not legible enough and it winds up looking like a 3).

Hi icedtea4me.

thank you.

 

[TinaD]

Thanks for responding guys - I've been in a training session all week and too braindead to log in at night.

If it isn't a transcription error (would the RST have picked it up and requested it be fixed?), then I guess there are a few possibilities. The first that springs to mind is the Stines. If memory serves, they were the only ones not called over that morning, although they seemed to be very close to the Rs after the event. However, presumably the touch DNA has been compared with samples from them.

The other thought is something that someone mentioned on here ages ago (apologies - I can't recall who). JRs company was part of the Lockheed group. I would just about guarantee that they would have procedures in place for their executives who may be targeted for kidnapping, blackmail etc. JRs first call should have been to activate those procedures. What if he did? What if Lockheed sent someone over to help "clean things up"? I can see holes in this of course as well, however someone somehow managed to get a message sent that morning to treat the Rs as victims, not suspects, and managed to get the telephone records wiped.

Just some thoughts from a brain somewhat frazzled.