Are they innocent?

[LP Moderator]

Interestingly enough, this case was a topic at lunch today.

The question was asked, do you think that there is a chance that John, Patsy and Burke Ramsey are innocent?

I had to think about that. I can not state that they are 100% guilty. That said, is there any credible evidence that points to their innocence?

The "foreign" DNA- no one knows if it is really foreign.
The "Beaver" hairs could have come from Patsy's boots.

Seriously, are there any CREDIBLE facts that point to their innocence?

I think they're absolutely innocent as I see no "credible" evidence that points to their guilt!!

 

[River]

I think they're absolutely innocent as I see no "credible" evidence that points to their guilt!!

DP, we'll just have to disagree on this one. I think that the evidence shows that the Ramsey's should have, at the very least, taken the FBI polygraph. That would have exonerated them.

 

[LP Moderator]

DP, we'll just have to disagree on this one. I think that the evidence shows that the Ramsey's should have, at the very least, taken the FBI polygraph. That would have exonerated them.

River - what are you doing here?? Get to work!!

 

[BlueCrab]

I refer to the now infamous Atlanta break in. After they moved to Atlanta, they were once again having "work" done on the house, kept their doors unlocked, and once again, a "burglar, intruder if you will" came into the house where their son Burke lived with an UNLOCKED gun cabinet, the alarms off, the locks unlocked, etc. John was supposedly locked in the bathroom while the "intruder" left with Patsy's K Mart jewelry, etc.

It's impossible to get locked INTO a bathroom. Bathroom locks are on the inside. A person can be locked OUT of a bathroom, but cannot be locked INTO a bathroom.

JMO

 

[Barbara]

DP, we'll just have to disagree on this one. I think that the evidence shows that the Ramsey's should have, at the very least, taken the FBI polygraph. That would have exonerated them.

I think at the very least, that they shouldn't have waited four months to be interviewed by the investigative officials. I think that would have helped them a whole lot.

 

[Old Broad]

I've read here for quite a while but have never posted.
While there have been things done by the Ramseys I've questioned, I've never thought they are guilty of this murder.
Did they make some mistakes in dealing with LE? Yes.

 

[LP Moderator]

Old Broad, I don't post much about this case either, but I may disagree with you a bit on your stmt. I think while their actions may have cast suspicion on themselves, its precisely those actions that have kept them out of prison for something they didn't do. While the idea of "lawyering up" doesn't sit well with most people, I think its the smart thing to do. In this case, however, an attorney who just happened to be a friend of the family is the one who arranged for them to be represented in the first place. Had this not happened, they may have faced a trial for something they didn't do.

 

[Barbara]

Old Broad, I don't post much about this case either, but I may disagree with you a bit on your stmt. I think while their actions may have cast suspicion on themselves, its precisely those actions that have kept them out of prison for something they didn't do. While the idea of "lawyering up" doesn't sit well with most people, I think its the smart thing to do. In this case, however, an attorney who just happened to be a friend of the family is the one who arranged for them to be represented in the first place. Had this not happened, they may have faced a trial for something they didn't do.

OR...they may have faced a trial for something they DID do. I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

 

[LP Moderator]

OR...they may have faced a trial for something they DID do. I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

true, Barbara. I don't think we will either. Whomever did it will end up paying one day, being judged by a higher being??????

 

[Brefie]

Hi all. I am new to this discussion, but I wanted to say that I am blown away with everything you all know about this case... It's very impressive. :clap: :clap: :clap:

While the idea of "lawyering up" doesn't sit well with most people, I think its the smart thing to do.

Hi, LP Mod, I think it doesn't sit well with people because, who thinks to do such a thing if they are innocent?
Laci Peterson's family now have lawyers, but didn't straight away....they were too busy doing anything and everything LE told them to do....IMO.

 

[Barbara]

I think I speak for many when I say that the Ramseys "lawyering up" is not the MAIN problem.

Anyone, anyone, who is likely to become a suspect in a murder case has every right to an attorney and they should exercise their rights. No problem.

The problem I have, as do many, is that despite having a TEAM of attorneys, they continued to avoid the police interviews and cooperate with the investigation

There is no reason why they couldn't lawyer up and still cooperate

THAT is what is suspicious. The RST would have the posters believe that many of us take issue with the attorneys. Just not so. We take issue with their seemingly lack of wanting to help find the murderer/s of JonBenet Ramsey, even with attornies.

 

[LP Moderator]

Hi all. I am new to this discussion, but I wanted to say that I am blown away with everything you all know about this case... It's very impressive. :clap: :clap: :clap:



Hi, LP Mod, I think it doesn't sit well with people because, who thinks to do such a thing if they are innocent?
Laci Peterson's family now have lawyers, but didn't straight away....they were too busy doing anything and everything LE told them to do....IMO.

Its my understanding that they didn't "think to do it," but it was an attorney friend of theirs who "thought to do it."

 

[LP Moderator]

I think I speak for many when I say that the Ramseys "lawyering up" is not the MAIN problem.

Anyone, anyone, who is likely to become a suspect in a murder case has every right to an attorney and they should exercise their rights. No problem.

The problem I have, as do many, is that despite having a TEAM of attorneys, they continued to avoid the police interviews and cooperate with the investigation

There is no reason why they couldn't lawyer up and still cooperate

THAT is what is suspicious. The RST would have the posters believe that many of us take issue with the attorneys. Just not so. We take issue with their seemingly lack of wanting to help find the murderer/s of JonBenet Ramsey, even with attornies.

Barbara, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not here to debate with you, just wanted to answer the question posed in this thread.

 

[BrotherMoon]

The fantasy based culture of Boulder Colorado is more responsible for the Ramsey's freedom than their lawyers are.

The difference between the mindset and approach of Steve Thomas and Tom Koby deliniates the difference between the fantasy based culture of Boulder and that of the greater world outside. Boulder has been invaded by a post hippie neo-eastern philosophy that is ultimately infantile regressive.

Hear no Evil, see no Evil, speak no Evil and dream of perfection.

 

[Brefie]

Its my understanding that they didn't "think to do it," but it was an attorney friend of theirs who "thought to do it."

I see your point, however, once lawyered up, why not cooperate with the investigation in to who killed your baby? Ain't no lawyer in the world could stop me doing that. NONE.

 

[SisterSocks]

There is nothing that proves they are positively innocent of all aspects of the crime. If there was, they would have been cleared long ago.

John, Patsy, and Burke will be the prime suspects in this case until they day they are lowered in the grave. And even then, people will continue to debate the case LONG after they're gone.

Are we all so Jaded----- The Rams said they were not guilty!

By not believing them, does it make us lairs??

 

[LP Moderator]

I see your point, however, once lawyered up, why not cooperate with the investigation in to who killed your baby? Ain't no lawyer in the world could stop me doing that. NONE.

Once I saw what the police were trying to do in the Sabrena Aisenberg case my mind completely changed about what I might do. Of course, until it actually happens to you, you really don't know. When my sister disappeared my entire family did everything and anything the police asked us to do, including polygraph tests. However, the Ramseys knew what the police were trying to do early on, so I'm not so sure I could blame them for not cooperating, especially after the police were not even going to release the body for burial.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

The burn mark left on the skin, if any, after being shocked with a stun gun is proportionate to the amount of time the prongs were held against the skin with the trigger pulled. The longer the hit, the more severe the burn....
JMO

BC,

I think you might be misunderstanding me here. I am not refering to the severity of the abrasion. I am talking about the pattern within the abrasion.

If you get a chance, take my link again. Check out the green-colored photo of the mark on JB's cheek. You will see a large abrasion with a distinct, clear pattern within the mark.

I am contending that the cluster-ring has a pattern that is so close to the pattern in the abrasion that it has to be the cause of the mark.

If a stun gun does not produce a pattern within the burn-mark it leaves, then it is impossible for a stun gun to be responsible for this injury.

 

[K777angel]

As for the reported "animal hair" in JonBenet's hands (which the autopsy by the way never mentions) - John Ramsey, in his book, describes the little boots JonBenet WORE the day she died. He describes them as being little black boots that zip up the front with "animal hair" around the top.

Secondly, I find so much credible evidence that the Ramseys are involved in the crime - that it overwhelmingly overshadows any circumstance that they are innocent. There cannot be "credible evidence" of their innocence - and at the same time be much "credible evidence" of their guilt.
That does not make sense - unless you replace the word "evidence" with
the word "circumstance."
Keeping in mind of course that at EVERY crime scene there are artifacts or circumstances seeming to point somewhere other than the real perp(s) - but that in fact have absolutely nothing to do with the crime.
~Angel~

 

[Shylock]

However, the Ramseys knew what the police were trying to do early on, so I'm not so sure I could blame them for not cooperating, especially after the police were not even going to release the body for burial.

This has nothing to do with the hiring of lawyers. Hiring lawyers is just scratching the surface when talking about the Ramsey mentality. From the moment they drove away from the house that day, everything John and Patsy have done has been about THEM. They haven't given JonBenet a second thought since her body was carried up from the basement and thrown on the floor.

Poor Patsy, too emotionally unstable after the death of her daughter to cooperate with the police, but feeling well enough to do a CNN interview. Hey, a former beauty queen knows enough to never miss an opportunity to get your face on camera again!

And lawyers? What about investigators? Investigators who were hired to keep John and Patsy out of jail and didn't spend a single minute investigating who might have killed their daughter.

And how about the FAKE web page and tip-line which no longer exist. I guess the 50 bucks a month those cost were too much for the dirt-poor Ramseys to spend in finding their daughter's killer, right?

And let's write a book about US! Forget JonBenet, we've "moved on" from that part of our life. The world wants to know about John and Patsy!

No innocent parent of a murdered child has ever acted like John and Patsy Ramsey. The key word is "innocent"...