Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Nancy_Drew]

I have bpd.



I'll answer your question like this.. does a person with cancer know they have cancer if they haven't been diagnosed. They may suspect something is wrong with them, they may suspect they have kidney cancer, and then go to the doctor and be diagnosed with intestinal cancer. We are the same. I would say the majority of us know something is wrong with our personality, but until it's diagnosed it's a question.

I think what your trying to ask is are we aware that we have a problem, and do we see the problem, and the answer is we do. At least the overwhelming majority of us do.




In many instances we don't, but people here and elsewhere misunderstand what we are and how we function. The people that talk about how evil we are, are usually the ones that have had a bad experience of being in a relationship with one us. We can be very difficult people to be around, because we are emotionally draining. We are NOT evil. We know right from wrong, and we have the ability to empathize. We want people to like us and when a friendship/relationship ends we are more likely to hurt ourselves rather than another person.

We act the way we do, because of trauma that occurred at some point during childhood, and we learned dysfunctional ways in which to cope. There are relatively newer therapies like Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) which is relatively successful.

We are difficult to treat, and there are a lot of therapist that won't see us because of that. This mindset though is becoming outdated with new therapies such as dbt, mbt, and schema. None of these were around prior to 2000, and it can still be difficult to get into one of these therapy programs.



I would say some have the ability to control and others do not. Regardless, neither would have remorse. A borderline would. Also, if I recall she left his residence and went to Utah and carried on with her weekend.. That is more inline with a psychopath then a borderline. A borderline would more likely become paranoid <-- don't freak out over that word. It would probably be noticeable that something wasn't quite right with our demeanor. You'd be able to tell something was bothering us.

All psychopaths have ASPD, not all ASPD's are psychopaths.



What this means is relationships with us are going to be emotionally draining, and a roller coaster ride. A lot of this is brought on by our fear of abandonment. When times are good we idealize you and being with you, and when you piss us off we devalue you. That is why it's emotionally draining.. we love you, we hate you, we love you, we hate you etc.

In regards to self image... many of us don't have a clear picture of who we are as a person. for ie. if you were asked to describe the real you it probably wouldn't be a problem.. I can't do that, because I don't have a true sense of self.



Another way to put this is we become extremely needy and clingy which then usually manifests what we don't want. Abandonment!



It's what I described above. Intense idealization = you're the greatest person alive... Intense devaluation = we hate you, and want nothing to do with you.

This is often referred to as splitting.



described above



Something that can harm us, NOT you.



Harm that is directed towards us, NOT you. Although, this is used for manipulation. For ie. If you don't talk to me I'm going to kill myself.



Is what it is..



Pretty much what it says, except any harm is more than likely going to be directed towards ourselves as opposed to someone else. Recurrent physical fights would be more uncommon then common.



She went to Utah, and carried on with her weekend. If she were borderline it's likely she'd be having a lot of paranoid ideation..



My personal feeling is she has traits of ASPD, HPD, and NPD.

I'm sure there are people with bpd that harm or kill others, but I'm also sure there are people without any kind of mental illness that harm or kill others.


Being fearful that I'm going to kill you is like me being fearful you're going to kill me.

Thank you so much for sharing this info...

So, do you think Jodi has Borderline or Antisocial? I think she has Antisocial Personality Disorder... and isn't that also the same as being a Sociopath?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the difference between someone with BPD and someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder that someone with BPD is more of a danger to themselves and someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder is more of a danger to others...

Also...didn't BPD used to be called Manic Depression?

Thank you again for your expert information!

 

[Tiger09]

Ricochet, thanks for sharing your diagnosis. I'm also diagnosed with BPD as well as bipolar disorder and to answer another poster- they are two totally different things. Bipolar, in my case, is like being on an emotional roller coaster. I would stay up for days at a time and once it was so bad I had a break with reality. It was triggered by stress- extreme stress. I have medical problems, so that flared up- my dad died, my therapist quit, and so I went manic. Before that, they knew I was bipolar by my depressive swings, but I got help and now I'm good. BPD is a lot like Ricochet described. It's hard to talk about mental health issues because people think any emotion you're going to break down or hurt them, but really I know I wouldn't hurt anyone.

 

[Cate49]

Ricochet + tiger9 again so brave to disclose your BPD in this forum. I am curious about treatment. Are treatments successful In balancing symptoms of BPD? When treatment is effective does one come off treatment thinking that treatment is no longer needed? I know that this is true for some types of mental illness? Ricochet you think Jodi has narcissism as part of her mental disorder. Do you think that sociopath is the other co-factor in the disorder?

 

[Tsunvirtual]

Ricochet, thanks for sharing your diagnosis. I'm also diagnosed with BPD as well as bipolar disorder and to answer another poster- they are two totally different things. Bipolar, in my case, is like being on an emotional roller coaster. I would stay up for days at a time and once it was so bad I had a break with reality. It was triggered by stress- extreme stress. I have medical problems, so that flared up- my dad died, my therapist quit, and so I went manic. Before that, they knew I was bipolar by my depressive swings, but I got help and now I'm good. BPD is a lot like Ricochet described. It's hard to talk about mental health issues because people think any emotion you're going to break down or hurt them, but really I know I wouldn't hurt anyone.

Have you seen Silver Linings Playbook? That could have been written from my son's life. He let his best friend move in with he and his wife. His wife got pregnant by his best friend and my son had a psychotic episode. He was diagnosed as being bipolar. They ran out and got restraining orders. He now lives with myself and his dad. He is on about four different types of meds. I don't think he will ever be able to be on his own again. Because when he cycles where he's up for days he loses track of whether or not he has taken his meds. His son's mother took us to court trying to take his visitation rights away. Thousands of dollars later I have to supervise visitation with his fifteen year old son. It's a shame people with mental health problems are punished for getting help.

 

[Tsunvirtual]

Do you think mental health problems are hereditary? Or can they cluster in families sometimes because they are all involved in the same traumatic experiences? Can you ever really say your cured and can go off meds? Just asking opinions?

I've told my kids not to expect to see me in court to support them if they ever do something like Jodi did.

 

[Cate49]

Tsunvirtual, sorry to hear about your son's situation. He has experienced a huge betrayal.
Hopefully this is a fairly new development and he is at the peek of suffering. Time truly is s buffer for trauma for everyone. Though his medication may need to be adjusted in order to provide balance of his mind. Please do not feel that his life will always be in turmoil and Require full time supervision. There is hope in the treatments available to manage his illness.
I am of the opinion that bi-polar has a genetic component but not always. The disease can may also be present at birth unrelated to genetics. Behavior from the disease may flourish after major trauma. It may also be the result of extreme trauma that produces a psychotic break. There are people in this forum that can answer your questions with greater clinical knowledge. However, life experience is a great teacher and motivator in the quest for understanding and acceptance. JMHO

 

[Tiger09]

Have you seen Silver Linings Playbook? That could have been written from my son's life. He let his best friend move in with he and his wife. His wife got pregnant by his best friend and my son had a psychotic episode. He was diagnosed as being bipolar. They ran out and got restraining orders. He now lives with myself and his dad. He is on about four different types of meds. I don't think he will ever be able to be on his own again. Because when he cycles where he's up for days he loses track of whether or not he has taken his meds. His son's mother took us to court trying to take his visitation rights away. Thousands of dollars later I have to supervise visitation with his fifteen year old son. It's a shame people with mental health problems are punished for getting help.

I haven't seen that movie yet, but I'm familiar with it and want to. I'm sorry for what happened with your son. There are, according to my therapist now, different types of bipolar disorder. Kind of like you can go at different points on the roller coaster, it's considered an axis. I would never ever recommend going off your meds. Would you go off meds if you were Type 1 diabetic? No. With the right support system and medication, people with mental health issues are not JA like killers. I see narcissism, low self esteem, constant staying in the child ego state. She's trapped in this place where it wasn't her fault which IMO explains the lies, the defense, the fake fog, and the tears. Now she is getting smacked by what happened. She is seeing reality.

 

[laces]

Found a REALLY interesting article about how people suddenly snap and become violent:
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-26/...chiatrists-schizophrenia-buildup?_s=PM:HEALTH

Nice article, thank you for that! I find it interesting that the writer says, it all starts with a plan.....with patients that are suicidal, we always ask them if they have a plan to hurt themselves. Maybe we need to start asking people is they have a plan to hurt someone else?

 

[Ricochet]

Nancy_Drew

So, do you think Jodi has Borderline or Antisocial?

The fact, she appears to be remorseless is ASPD. Those of us that have BPD do HAVE remorse.

We do tend to lack empathy to varying degrees, which is different from remorse. It will be different with everyone. I'd say mine are on the low end of the spectrum. If you were to post that your best friend or dog died there are those that would empathize with you by what they say/feel. I know logically what to say, but I wouldn't feel anything. What comes naturally for most doesn't for me. Depending on the circumstance I'd have to think whether or not I'd feel anything. I can't always tell. This does NOT equate to being heartless. I'll still say what is appropriate, but inside I may not feel anything at all or care. This is making me sound bad. I wouldn't find happiness or joy in your pain. I'm just not in touch on an emotional level. I'm not sure how else to explain this but feel free to ask questions if you like.

I think she has Antisocial Personality Disorder... and isn't that also the same as being a Sociopath?

Sociopath would fall under ASPD.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the difference between someone with BPD and someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder that someone with BPD is more of a danger to themselves and someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder is more of a danger to others...

This is true.

Also...didn't BPD used to be called Manic Depression?

No. BPD is a Personality Disorder, and Manic Depression would be a Mood Disorder.

I am curious about treatment. Are treatments successful In balancing symptoms of BPD?

There is Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), Mentalization Behavior Therapy (MBT), and Schema. I'm not very familiar with either MBT or Schema, because it's hard to find these programs. I've been through DBT and even that can be hard to find a program but much easier to find then the other two. I think studies have shown that DBT has about a 60% success rate.

The idea is to replace dysfunctional coping skills with more functional/healthy ones. The keyword would be "skill". It takes a lot practice at working these skills into your life to where they become more natural and less thought about. The course is useless if the person doesn't want to put in the effort. It's 6 months long, but most will take it for a minimum of a year. That's the length of time it takes for it to be really beneficial.

It has helped in some areas of my life, but I've also become VERY detached which I suspect, is in part, because of dbt. Because, I'm detached I don't have the intense emotional interpersonal craziness (lol). It's still a dysfunctional way in which to cope though because I've closed myself off emotionally to others. It's a way to protect myself from the pain that comes from the emotional intensity that will eventually manifest in relationships/friendships and ultimately leading to the ending of those relationships/friendships.

You will hear/read from those without bpd talk about how heartless we are, and evil, and don't care about the ones we hurt as if we enjoy it. Those are the people that have typically been in some sort of relationship/friendship with someone who has bpd. They can't be further from the truth. The truth is we are aware of the emotional pain that we inflict in relationships, and just like they are hurting emotionally, so are we. We want "normal" relationships, and hate ourselves for being the way we are. We are not having fun, we are not enjoying the pain we are causing others, and we are not evil.

We are not all the same. My personality traits are not necessarily going to be the same as someone else with bpd. There are other factors that come into play such as I have major depression, and a mild form of ptsd. Someone else may have bpd with bi polar etc. There are some of us where the bpd effects only relationships, and others (like me) where it effects friendships and relationships. I'm assuming mental health wise you are "normal", it's like me asking you if all "normal" people are angry all the time because some are. All people are different.

If you were to be around me or another person with bpd it's unlikely that you would know we have it until you became closer to us, and even then it would depend on the person. You'd probably never see it with me, because I'm closed off emotionally. It's kind of like if you're around me fine and if not that fine too. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. That does NOT mean that I'm going to be mean to you. I'd be nice, and I'd enjoy being around you or whoever otherwise I'd say no. All it means is I'm not going to have any kind of emotional attachment.

When treatment is effective does one come off treatment thinking that treatment is no longer needed?

I'm sure some do, but probably most don't because they have some other underlying issue like major depression, bi polar etc.

I know that this is true for some types of mental illness?

This is true, and at some point it will catch up to them. for ie. go off of anti depressants it's likely they will have a depressive episode.

Ricochet you think Jodi has narcissism as part of her mental disorder. Do you think that sociopath is the other co-factor in the disorder?

She appears to be remorseless which is a trait of ASPD. It's possible she may have traits of several disorders, but not enough traits to diagnose her with any specific personality disorder. In that case she would be pd-nos, which is personality disorder non specific.

Personality Disorders can be hard to diagnose even for Psychiatrist/Psychologists, and a good one won't immediately diagnose someone with a personality disorder. The problem with lay people copying and pasting the bpd (or any other pd) is that the trait has to be applied in the correct context and the personality disorder has to be looked at as a whole, and not just individual components. Because someone has intense anger does not mean they have bpd. It's possible they just have anger issues. Things have to add up.

Tsunvirtual
Do you think mental health problems are hereditary? Or can they cluster in families sometimes because they are all involved in the same traumatic experiences?

Yes and no. A person with a mood disorder (ie. depression) is more likely to be hereditary, but it could also be from environmental factors. A personality disorder is a learned dysfunctional method of coping with some sort of traumatic event occurring in childhood. It becomes ingrained into our personality, because that is how we learn to cope.

Can you ever really say your cured and can go off meds?

There are no meds to cure or treat a personality disorder, however meds are usually prescribed to treat some other underlying symptom ie. anxiety. I don't know enough about other personality disorders, but with borderline I believe it can go into a state of remission if they have the appropriate therapy like dbt. I'm not sure we're ever really cured. I'm undecided, but lean towards no with other mental illness

If you want to know what dbt is like you can look at www.dbtselfhelp.com it's the entire dbt course online.

 

[HMSHood]

I have bpd.



I'll answer your question like this.. does a person with cancer know they have cancer if they haven't been diagnosed. They may suspect something is wrong with them, they may suspect they have kidney cancer, and then go to the doctor and be diagnosed with intestinal cancer. We are the same. I would say the majority of us know something is wrong with our personality, but until it's diagnosed it's a question.

I think what your trying to ask is are we aware that we have a problem, and do we see the problem, and the answer is we do. At least the overwhelming majority of us do.




In many instances we don't, but people here and elsewhere misunderstand what we are and how we function. The people that talk about how evil we are, are usually the ones that have had a bad experience of being in a relationship with one us. We can be very difficult people to be around, because we are emotionally draining. We are NOT evil. We know right from wrong, and we have the ability to empathize. We want people to like us and when a friendship/relationship ends we are more likely to hurt ourselves rather than another person.

We act the way we do, because of trauma that occurred at some point during childhood, and we learned dysfunctional ways in which to cope. There are relatively newer therapies like Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) which is relatively successful.

We are difficult to treat, and there are a lot of therapist that won't see us because of that. This mindset though is becoming outdated with new therapies such as dbt, mbt, and schema. None of these were around prior to 2000, and it can still be difficult to get into one of these therapy programs.



I would say some have the ability to control and others do not. Regardless, neither would have remorse. A borderline would. Also, if I recall she left his residence and went to Utah and carried on with her weekend.. That is more inline with a psychopath then a borderline. A borderline would more likely become paranoid <-- don't freak out over that word. It would probably be noticeable that something wasn't quite right with our demeanor. You'd be able to tell something was bothering us.

All psychopaths have ASPD, not all ASPD's are psychopaths.



What this means is relationships with us are going to be emotionally draining, and a roller coaster ride. A lot of this is brought on by our fear of abandonment. When times are good we idealize you and being with you, and when you piss us off we devalue you. That is why it's emotionally draining.. we love you, we hate you, we love you, we hate you etc.

In regards to self image... many of us don't have a clear picture of who we are as a person. for ie. if you were asked to describe the real you it probably wouldn't be a problem.. I can't do that, because I don't have a true sense of self.



Another way to put this is we become extremely needy and clingy which then usually manifests what we don't want. Abandonment!



It's what I described above. Intense idealization = you're the greatest person alive... Intense devaluation = we hate you, and want nothing to do with you.

This is often referred to as splitting.



described above



Something that can harm us, NOT you.



Harm that is directed towards us, NOT you. Although, this is used for manipulation. For ie. If you don't talk to me I'm going to kill myself.



Is what it is..



Pretty much what it says, except any harm is more than likely going to be directed towards ourselves as opposed to someone else. Recurrent physical fights would be more uncommon then common.



She went to Utah, and carried on with her weekend. If she were borderline it's likely she'd be having a lot of paranoid ideation..



My personal feeling is she has traits of ASPD, HPD, and NPD.

I'm sure there are people with bpd that harm or kill others, but I'm also sure there are people without any kind of mental illness that harm or kill others.


Being fearful that I'm going to kill you is like me being fearful you're going to kill me.

Very brave for you to come forward. Interesting insight about BPD. Some of the description you mentioned is something I have seen in others like Casey Anthony, Lori Drew, Diane Downs, and Susan Smith.

 

[Tiger09]

Thanks Ricochet, that's exactly what BPD is. I really cannot explain it better. I often tend to use humor to get out of situations that I find awkward for me. Anyway, on topic, I see low self esteem in JA in that maybe she uses relationships as targets or "marks" to define herself. An emotionally healthy person with good self esteem wouldn't do that, obviously. She's so obsessed with control, I keep watching HLN and its like those Crocodile tears are to me about her losing control like a petulant child. I don't think she's listening to her lawyers. She seems really frustrating to be around, hell she's exhausting to watch.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Mr.Pizza I think you may be right about Jodi smiling when she thinks she has one upped JM. Her smiling is far more of an actual response than crying. Her crying is a forced response. Part of the smiling looks to be enjoyment from the audio sexual portions. JMO

The fact that Jodi is highly sexual and seems to need a lot of sexual attention is an activity she discovered that made her feel (anything at all). Outside of sex, she may always feel 'flat' so she created this big sex life with TA that morphed into actually being/representing her emotional life.
Like you say Cate49, her thinking back on those exciting times with TA, brings her joy (despite the inappropriateness of showing her delight in her current circumstance). Her behavior is disconnected from her current situation. Although she may miss him - or the good times he provided her - it appears that she needs to try to force the appropriate emotion as it doesn't seem to come from within her.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I have bpd.



I'll answer your question like this.. does a person with cancer know they have cancer if they haven't been diagnosed. They may suspect something is wrong with them, they may suspect they have kidney cancer, and then go to the doctor and be diagnosed with intestinal cancer. We are the same. I would say the majority of us know something is wrong with our personality, but until it's diagnosed it's a question.

I think what your trying to ask is are we aware that we have a problem, and do we see the problem, and the answer is we do. At least the overwhelming majority of us do.




In many instances we don't, but people here and elsewhere misunderstand what we are and how we function. The people that talk about how evil we are, are usually the ones that have had a bad experience of being in a relationship with one us. We can be very difficult people to be around, because we are emotionally draining. We are NOT evil. We know right from wrong, and we have the ability to empathize. We want people to like us and when a friendship/relationship ends we are more likely to hurt ourselves rather than another person.

We act the way we do, because of trauma that occurred at some point during childhood, and we learned dysfunctional ways in which to cope. There are relatively newer therapies like Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) which is relatively successful.

We are difficult to treat, and there are a lot of therapist that won't see us because of that. This mindset though is becoming outdated with new therapies such as dbt, mbt, and schema. None of these were around prior to 2000, and it can still be difficult to get into one of these therapy programs.



I would say some have the ability to control and others do not. Regardless, neither would have remorse. A borderline would. Also, if I recall she left his residence and went to Utah and carried on with her weekend.. That is more inline with a psychopath then a borderline. A borderline would more likely become paranoid <-- don't freak out over that word. It would probably be noticeable that something wasn't quite right with our demeanor. You'd be able to tell something was bothering us.

All psychopaths have ASPD, not all ASPD's are psychopaths.



What this means is relationships with us are going to be emotionally draining, and a roller coaster ride. A lot of this is brought on by our fear of abandonment. When times are good we idealize you and being with you, and when you piss us off we devalue you. That is why it's emotionally draining.. we love you, we hate you, we love you, we hate you etc.

In regards to self image... many of us don't have a clear picture of who we are as a person. for ie. if you were asked to describe the real you it probably wouldn't be a problem.. I can't do that, because I don't have a true sense of self.



Another way to put this is we become extremely needy and clingy which then usually manifests what we don't want. Abandonment!



It's what I described above. Intense idealization = you're the greatest person alive... Intense devaluation = we hate you, and want nothing to do with you.

This is often referred to as splitting.



described above



Something that can harm us, NOT you.



Harm that is directed towards us, NOT you. Although, this is used for manipulation. For ie. If you don't talk to me I'm going to kill myself.



Is what it is..



Pretty much what it says, except any harm is more than likely going to be directed towards ourselves as opposed to someone else. Recurrent physical fights would be more uncommon then common.



She went to Utah, and carried on with her weekend. If she were borderline it's likely she'd be having a lot of paranoid ideation..



My personal feeling is she has traits of ASPD, HPD, and NPD.

I'm sure there are people with bpd that harm or kill others, but I'm also sure there are people without any kind of mental illness that harm or kill others.


Being fearful that I'm going to kill you is like me being fearful you're going to kill me.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions. This is the best explanation I've ever read in the way you broke it down.

Do you think early childhood trauma is the only reason one develops BPD (versus, for instance, ADD/HD that can stem from frontal lobe damage)?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

As to if JA falls into the category of sociopath, I have a few observations ~

First, was she 27 years old in 2008? Do I have that right?

I believe she had a three year relationship with the guy prior to TA? Is that correct?

She had no criminal record prior to committing murder. :waitasec:

The friend of TA, Julie C., who spoke out on NG and JVM about interactions she had with TA and JA, said that Jodi was not a conversationalist (thus not charming or trying to win people over) but seemed 'like a zombie'.

What sticks out to me about JA is that she was possessive but trying to behave as if she was not. It sounds as if she had become rather pushy while pretending it was due to friendship (boundary issues? and believing her own rationalizations?)

Do we know anything about her background or is that off limits as far as the case goes (because it's self defense).
It may be self defense because she didn't want anyone to delve into her background regarding her father and/or mother. :waitasec:
A little clue is that her mother came out somewhere (involving a plane trip) to help JA pack/move but they had a disagreement and her mother left early. Strange, no?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Does anyone know what Travis meant when he warned Jodi to be "careful, or you'll turn out like your mother"? I must have missed it. I know that Jodi was offended that he would say such a thing.

I have been noticing JA's mom and aunt smirking a lot from the gallery during the cross examination. Must be where she gets it from.

Also noticed that JA's siblings are usually not in court, and I've only seen her dad one time. Are we to infer that they aren't strong supporters of hers? I would be interested to hear from them after this is all over.

bumping ~ me too.
I read her dad is suffering from cancer now.
Are her parents still together?
Are JA's grandparents maternal or paternal?
It's suspicious that their gun was stolen in May, 2008, just days before JA killed TA.
Then I always have to remember how I thought that the fact the Mickey S's dad was backing out of his driveway at basically the same time she went missing was so weird that I became suspect of him for awhile (that he had hit her or something) - cuz who leaves their house at two o'clockish in the morning for a business meeting? It sounded so foreign to me and I WAS SO WRONG TO SUSPECT HIM.
Now I'm afraid to consider coincidences no matter how likely they seem to relate to a case.

 

[writer7]

Thank you so much, ricochet!

My sister has borderline PD, and I don't think she's evil I know it's so hard for her to not get so emotional about things that don't bother me. I don't mean to sound flip, but I get a taste of what it must be like when I have PMS! I get a short temper, for real, and it's so hard to try to keep it in check. Also when I had to take prednisone I felt that after a week (roid rage, kind of?).

I'm not saying BPD is hormonal, but those of us who can have personality problems when hormonal might understand a taste of what it's like, imho. Fortunately, I can just claim a headache for 2 days a month (I really do get migraines then, too, so it's true). It is so hard to have to be around someone expecting you to be nice when your body is giving you a short, short fuse

***As far as JA goes and me thinking she is BPD along with psychopathy, I want to emphasize that someone with psychopathy bad enough to lead to murder who also has BPD is going to look much, much different than someone like my sister!

I think JA has extreme psychopathy first and foremost, and that's why she is a murderer. The features of BPD in her that I see just explain (in my view) why she did things that would be against what a psychopath would tend to do. I think she gets more emotional and 'attached' than a psychopath because she also has BPD (at least regarding her romantic self, her thoughts of a mate, etc.). I don't think the attachment is real because she's such a bad psychopath.

Psychopaths can get angry enough to kill without BPD, of course; like you said, a BPD murderer is much much, more rare. And they do feel slighted very easily and can go into rages over small things. But I think JA 'loved' Travis more than a psychopath alone would. I think her obsession with him wasn't just about manipulation but also involved BPD-like features of idealization. I think she felt compelled to let him know more about her real (good) feelings for him than a psychopath normally would. She had those intense positive feelings at times due to borderline PD, imho.

When she was angry, she was psychopath angry + BPD angry, and that's about as mad as I can imagine a person getting! So I hope you see why I include BPD but definitely need to emphasize that BPD alone is not the same at all! Thank you so much for posting!

 

[Ricochet]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions. This is the best explanation I've ever read in the way you broke it down.

Do you think early childhood trauma is the only reason one develops BPD (versus, for instance, ADD/HD that can stem from frontal lobe damage)?

You're welcome! I don't believe there is any kind of damage in the brain. I think genetics play a factor in making us more predisposed to develop bpd, but it's traumatic events from childhood and the ways in which we learn to cope with those events which is the cause.

I'm speaking specifically to bpd. I don't know enough about other personality disorders.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Thank you to Ricochet and Tiger for sharing and trying to explain what many of us are trying to understand! So helpful. And so many of you have such good info.

I've just been fascinated by watching Jodi - not knowing what allowed her to do what she has done, and how she's handling herself through this trial. I've interviewed many suspects in my past, and I have never experienced one like her. She was a topic of discussion in our office the other day, as several of us were really watching her demeanor on the stand. Not one of us watching said we've ever had a defendant like her.

Thanks again :seeya:

 

[Cate49]

It is very refreshing to see people disclosing very personal experiences in order to teach. When fear is removed from those with mental illness. The dialogue can then be opened to learn, identify and experience. Hats off to everyone on this thread for great discussion. Much thanks

 

[Ricochet]

just for clarification I'm a guy.

I've only seen about 10 minutes of her testimony, but if her demeanor has remained relatively consistent throughout then I really question bpd. We're emotional, and from what I saw she seemed to together, albeit bizarre, to be borderline. I'd expect more hostility/anger from her if she was borderline.

While I don't find the murder amusing, I did find what was taking place between her and the prosecutor to be highly amusing. My sense is she was ****ing around with him and he knew what she was doing. Rather than fall into the trap of becoming argumentative/combative with her he rolled with the flow.

It's like the prosecutor wants her to go right, and she wants to go left. Rather than fight her by trying to get her to go right, he chooses to go left with her and do it her way and by doing that he defeats what she is trying to accomplish.

I only saw 10 minutes, but that's what I was thinking.