Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Tiger09]

I think the word rules is where the psychology of this whole case gets intriguing. You have a young man bound by who he is told he should be, who he feels he wants to be, and who he is. On the other hand there is a young woman manipulating that same man's confusion and/ or crossroads into what she wants it to be and trying to make things fall into her favor. We've all broken rules, but this lead into murder. Is it because Travis didn't know who he was- he was at the cusp of discovering himself, after all- or was it because Jodi was told that she as a woman needed to find a man to take care of her?

 

[Whisperer]

There wasn't any evidence of a conduct disorder either as far as I know.

"As far as we know". I heard the same thing concerning felon anthony. Dollars to donuts, she was a problem child with a very bad temper.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Absolutely, I agree with you. Of course it is disgusting to do what she did and to NOT take responsibility for it (I would kill myself if I had to look at the crime scene photos and know I had done that.)

I meant only that Jodi could easily ABUSE/twist/adulterate Crowleyism or LeVay or anything - to suit her own needs, just to rationalize and justify herself! It does NOT mean in any way, shape or form that Crowley would agree.

I knew a guy who used that "do what thou wilt" to justify back-stabbing, money theft, sexual absue, you name it.

Somewhat off topic but I had an AT&T guy outside my house fixing my phone line the other day who kept ringing my doorbell to give me an update on his progress. His eyes were deep brown and fluid and his gaze so sincere. He really wanted to help me.

During this my husband drove up the driveway. When my husband came into the house, he said that the guy sure is talkative.

The guy went back to the office to do something to the computer and then back to our house again. In the end our caller id was not working but he said it should be because he tested his from the outside line and it worked on his so the problem must be with our phone. Could he please come into our house to take a look at our phones? It was almost six o'clock by then and I'd had it with these freakin' phones as the line had been out for two days by then, was fixed but the caller id wasn't working. Ugh!

I politely said thanks but no thanks because, all of a sudden, I had this feeling that this guy is too helpful, too eager to help us. He looked disappointed that he wasn't allowed to complete the job inside the house.

Later on in the evening, I remembered the goodlooking gypsies (they call themselves and I saw their mugshots) who ripped off my senior parents for fixing their driveway. Together my brother and I found out information, went to the police and they had a whole rap sheet on this group of con artists (the one who charmed my mom used his real name and had her write out her own receipt!). My parents got their money back. Luckily my dad had noticed that the screws surrounding his door knob had been loosened prior to the discovery of the scam - they always lock their storm door anyway.

I swear my intuition kicked in about the telephone guy when I didn't want him looking around inside my house. I could be wrong of course but it's better to error on the side of caution.

That's how my mind works when looking into cases as to what we can learn from them based on the behavior of all the people involved.

By the way, our caller id miraculously worked the next day - must have been a computer glitch that was fixed in the office!

 

[SMK]

I think the word rules is where the psychology of this whole case gets intriguing. You have a young man bound by who he is told he should be, who he feels he wants to be, and who he is. On the other hand there is a young woman manipulating that same man's confusion and/ or crossroads into what she wants it to be and trying to make things fall into her favor. We've all broken rules, but this lead into murder. Is it because Travis didn't know who he was- he was at the cusp of discovering himself, after all- or was it because Jodi was told that she as a woman needed to find a man to take care of her?

I think Travis was very conflicted. On the one hand, his Mormonism gave him a community of people and a venue to excel in. On the other, it demanded a chastity that the mainstream media/business/secular world ran counter to.

Jodi was also conflicted: She wanted to submit to a man, yet was in a culture where women are increasingly becoming very bold and masterful with their sexuality - which sort of backfired on her: It made Travis uneasy, in the end. Really a huge tragedy all around with massive sociological and psychological implications.

 

[Whisperer]

It all comes down to sexuality in this case. If Travis had listened to the Angels and not slept with this maniac, he would be alive. Gad, I abhor this female....

 

[Whisperer]

I just saw the female on Dr.Drew who was observed being hugged by Travis at the convention. This is the woman JA described as big busted and Travis was being most inapproptriate by hugging her.

JA caught her in the B/R the next day...WTH? JA lectured her on Travis belonging to Jodie and "hands off". Wow! JA sure likes to confront the females and warn them to stay away. Her jealously is extreme and should have been a huge Red Flag. There are no boudaries between her and other women. She is very sick. IIRC, she dropped her job one day to track down a female 60 miles away. I am surprised she hasn't attacked a women.

This is certainly not anywhere in the norm of behavior. How long has this been going on? I noticed a depth of posture and staring when Lisa Andrews was on the stand. Her hatred is palpable....downright scary!!

 

[SMK]

It all comes down to sexuality in this case. If Travis had listened to the Angels and not slept with this maniac, he would be alive. Gad, I abhor this female....

Yes - he certainly could have spared himself a heap of trouble, and saved his life - if only he could say, "NO" to the sex. In fact, if he had REALLY stuck to the Mormon ideal of chastity and virginity before marriage, imagine how that would have driven Jodi wild. Yet she would have nothing on him; no claim to him. He opened the door to the whole horror.

 

[Gecko100]

Looks like we are back to Damned and God's Police again!
It is a topic that certainly isn't going to go away, and it will create the same divisiveness that it suggests.
Priests/nuns have held very similar authoritative positions in the Catholic church.
I can certainly testify to the cruelty of nuns, they were extremely powerful people to me, but they abused their powerful positions to control and manipulate my behaviour through physical abuse.

People in positions of trust power and authority, have a duty to behave ethically towards others, especially children and the vulnerable.

In the long run I guess it doesn't matter what was wrong with her, she will still be rightfully penalised. We could debate her diagnosis for years.
What I care about is how these two people got into such a position in the first place. Hopefully there will be clues to help us understand it from an intra-psychic position as well as a meta analysis.
For me, their unresolved childhood issues were the real Law of Attraction! :truce:

 

[Whisperer]

Word to the wise. Don't allow any of your adult children to be home alone when a repair man shows up. I have heard horror stories about carpet cleaners, movers, etc..

I recall pulling my adult DD back from an elevator. She was about to step in when I noticed three young gangsta types inside. She used to be oblivious to this stuff till she got mugged.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Does the trial resume tomorrow? Will the Prosecution experts be taking the stand or does the Defense have more to present?

I'm looking forward to hearing from the Prosecution expert regarding JA.

illowfight:

fftobed: and TV!

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Aren't the e-mails just a smidgen of the hundreds that went between them, or maybe the only ones indicative of issues? I would like to read the others just to get a sense of them, but they might be boring and highly sexualised which will just irritate me.

Thank-you all for your commiserations, we certainly know when we have been there!!
I actually became a narcissistic magnet at one point, I thought I had 'pick me' writ large on my head, but like BritsKate I can sniff them at 50 paces, otherwise they would eat me for dinner.
I agree that she is probably a mix of cluster B, and also wonder why you see ASPD and I see narcissism, I know they are co-morbid, but I wonder if our own experiences make us sniff one more than the other.
Wondering is part of my obsessive curiosity about the world, and I blame myself entirely!

Yes, Cluster B but I "sniff out" the BPD part the strongest in JA. I also believe that if JA had money, she would have been able to have "bought" herself a good attorney (and an expert) that would've diagnosed her an Axis I Dissociative Disorder and the death penalty would've been taken off the table. Not that I'm looking for JA to get off the hook but our judicial system is all about the money, sadly. :twocents:

 

[Whisperer]

Jodie is evil..probably always was. Having met a few of these in my day, I can say it is a very horrible experience. I had never worked with an all female ward before. These types exists. There are few mental health employees that will work with the Borderline dual dx. I am not one of them. I learned my lesson.

You don't even know what hit you. They are that good. You won't see it coming either and I'm talking about trained people in the field. I doublt Samuals had come across any female like this in all of his time in MH. I think Samuals fell victim but won't admit it.

I have spoken with serial killers, rapists, etc. who are much easier to understand than JA. She is complex and severe Borderline with the Cluster B's prominent...imo.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes - he certainly could have spared himself a heap of trouble, and saved his life - if only he could say, "NO" to the sex. In fact, if he had REALLY stuck to the Mormon ideal of chastity and virginity before marriage, imagine how that would have driven Jodi wild. Yet she would have nothing on him; no claim to him. He opened the door to the whole horror.

Quite a few of my guy friends like to say this (and interpret it as you will):
"Crazy in the head---crazy in bed"!

:what:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Jodie is evil..probably always was. Having met a few of these in my day, I can say it is a very horrible experience. I had never worked with an all female ward before. These types exists. There are few mental health employees that will work with the Borderline dual dx. I am not one of them. I learned my lesson.

You don't even know what hit you. They are that good. You won't see it coming either and I'm talking about trained people in the field. I doublt Samuals had come across any female like this in all of his time in MH. I think Samuals fell victim but won't admit it.

I have spoken with serial killers, rapists, etc. who are much easier to understand than JA. She is complex and severe Borderline with the Cluster B's prominent...imo.

I agree 100% Whisperer......well said.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes - he certainly could have spared himself a heap of trouble, and saved his life - if only he could say, "NO" to the sex. In fact, if he had REALLY stuck to the Mormon ideal of chastity and virginity before marriage, imagine how that would have driven Jodi wild. Yet she would have nothing on him; no claim to him. He opened the door to the whole horror.

Too me that's the sad part too. That we somehow think we can be so trusting of everyone before we know anything about them, their background, their family, etc. We don't use our brains and, despite tragic examples, assume everyone is good/harmless just because they look presentable.

Part of survival can be attributed to dumb luck.

 

[Whisperer]

I can't telll anyone how to spot them. Thankfully, not many have met one. They love co-dependents and can sniff them out easily. If you ever are around anyone that you think is strange and say to yourself, "Something is wrong and I can't put my finger on it"....you just may have met a sociopath. JA brings that word to a whole new level. I am sure most normal people, particularly females, will sense something very wrong upon the first meeting. Men, what can I say? They get caught up in their hormones. They just don't think or care about crazy. Some of them like crazy and some want to help crazy. I saw that alot.

I was always amazed at the guys who brought in their crazy women who were psychotic. I always wondered how the guys got mixed up with them...but that they did. Furthermore, they stood by them in their time of need. I had men tell me they love bipolars just don't like the psychotic side so much.. lol. okiedokiethen.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Does the trial resume tomorrow? Will the Prosecution experts be taking the stand or does the Defense have more to present?

I'm looking forward to hearing from the Prosecution expert regarding JA.

illowfight:

fftobed: and TV!

Guess I'll find out tomorrow. This has got to be the longest drawn out trial ever considering how long they've stayed on similar topics and seemingly rehashed the same points over and over again.

Nite all.

 

[Whisperer]

It's strange but when I worked in the field years ago, we never considered Borderline in males. I think I only know of one case where a male was diagnosed Borderline and that was in the 80's...hmmm.
....Wonder if that has changed?

 

[Ricochet]

It's strange but when I worked in the field years ago, we never considered Borderline in males. I think I only know of one case where a male was diagnosed Borderline and that was in the 80's...hmmm.
....Wonder if that has changed?

Yes!! I am a male, and borderline...

 

[Gecko100]

Jodie is evil..probably always was. Having met a few of these in my day, I can say it is a very horrible experience. I had never worked with an all female ward before. These types exists. There are few mental health employees that will work with the Borderline dual dx. I am not one of them. I learned my lesson.

You don't even know what hit you. They are that good. You won't see it coming either and I'm talking about trained people in the field. I doublt Samuals had come across any female like this in all of his time in MH. I think Samuals fell victim but won't admit it.

I have spoken with serial killers, rapists, etc. who are much easier to understand than JA. She is complex and severe Borderline with the Cluster B's prominent...imo.

Oh yes!! I have come across quite a few myself!! All of my very personal contact has been around assessing suitability for parenting (besides my own N family, and the N's that target me). Murderers paedophiles and rapist's too.
I have also come across many in the the workplace social workers, psychologists, doctors etc. It is a field they are attracted to because of the power/authority/narcissistic supply they get from the vulnerable. I avoid them like the plague.
They do dirty underhand stuff, and you feel like having a shower to get them off you.