Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Whisperer]

I am worried about the dog now. Did it really run away? What did she do to it after she kicked it? I knew this girl was a problem child with massive anger issues. Her family knew it too and was likely, oh so happy, when she moved out in her junior year...isn't that when she moved in with the Goth guy?

She has done some pretty bad stuff (like anthony) and the parents aren't sharing what they have done.

 

[Whisperer]

More breaking news: Another excerpt from Jodi's interrogation released on HLN today where the only example of an "anger issue" that she could recall was kicking her dog who was tied up in the yard. Somehow the dog ran away and she never saw him again. Referring to the dog, she says, "I need to apologize to him". She was a freshman in HS at the time.

psychopath.

My money is on her doing more than kicking. Poor baby. I am sick to death of these psychopaths getting away with torturing animals and killing people. I have my fill of it. From the criminals who told me what they did, I can barely function with all the carp that goes on and most people don't know about these da*n whackos! :jail:

Who knows how badly Caylee suffered? How many dogs did that anthony family go through? They sure as heck testified to a lot of burials. :banghead:

 

[Whisperer]

In Jan2008, she tells us Travis kicked her? WTH? I'm sure it was the other way around now that I know what she did to a precious doggy and her own mother. I wonder what story she told Travis about her mother because Travis told her she was going to end up "just like her mother".

She managed to frame him with those phonecalls and texts. She is diabolical, for sure.

 

[Whisperer]

Well, even if we were pros, which the vast majority of us are not, you'd be hard pressed to get a consensus in a psych dx.

I think there's a lot of agreement for some sort of Cluster B PD - or several, comorbid.

There's a lot of support for psychopathy (IMO: esp. after today!)

The defense has her Axis II as personality disorder NOS (not otherwise specified). They are getting away with that and they darn well know she exhibits naracissism, borderlilne, antisocial and histrionic. These are the Cluster B's and she reeks with them. They are all severe in her case...which causes psychopathy.

In my opinion, she has some paranoia which they are calling hypervigilance. She also displays some passive aggression. She is sadistic which makes her dangerous.

As far as Axis I, I doubt PTSD is the correct dx. She is complicated and would need testing such as the MMPI which they never gave. Defense knows this girl is demented and doesn't want that out there. She would not let them go that route, ever. In her mind, there is nothing wrong with her. Heck, she even blamed the dog for the trash being strewn. She also had to punish it. We have yet to hear how badly. It was the dogs fault that she got angry..not hers!

She has anti-social personality disorder as the driving force. . This happened w/casey anthony also. We were told she was not mentally ill. Well, that is not exactly true but they get away with it because they are not giving any dx that show real problems. As long as they stay away from Axis I, they cam yell to the cows come home that there client is NOT mentally ill.

I don't consider their use of PTSD as the Axis I for JA accurate. Any psych could make a case for this dx on almost anyone who had a tragedy. We all saw how that worked in the courtroom. The questions are easy and anyone could pull it off.

He would have to give her a MMPI. That will show what is wrong and it also has a very good validity scale built it. Most criminals fail the validity as they are usually malingering for a better place to house, which is the MH ward. It is rare to see a DR give an inmate that test. It is long and time consuming and the most expensive.

 

[Gecko100]

I can't see how they can support the PTSD dx very well if they are linking it post tragedy, is that what good dr reckons?
That's not logical, he would have to say it was a result of DV before the murder, or it makes no sense at all, it does her no good whatsoever.
Have I got it all wrong?
Isn't that the point of the mit specialist? DV?
I suppose the tests don't tell you when you got PTSD though, that's reliant on a corroborative history. I wonder if he even went that far?

 

[DebinGA]

She kicked the dog cause it knocked over a garbage can full of diapers - which the dog proceeded to drag all over the yard. She had to clean up the mess.

Given I can't take Jodi's word for anything, if this story is true it makes me feel a little sympathy for the little girl she might have been.

I missed her testimony on direct when she discussed her upbringing, and I really don't care to go back and hear it at this point. But I believe she has a much older half-sister from another mother, a younger sister, a much younger brother, and maybe another brother somewhere in the mix. In the dog-kicking video she claims two of her younger siblings were still in diapers, and she was a young teen tasked with diaper disposal duty and cleanup.

What other work she was expected to do in the home idk, but maybe a lot since the family restaurant may have been an all-hands-on-deck deal. Samuels said Jodi told him that her parents loved all their children except her. She may have had good reason to believe that, even if only because she required more discipline than the others. I can imagine little Jodi resenting having to care and clean-up after her more loved siblings. I can imagine an unlovable young Jodi, tasked with diaper duty by a mom too busy to do it all herself, lashing out at a dog that had just added to her misery.

 

[SMK]

I must post when everyone is asleep! That's what happens when you live underneath!
I'm not sure if this post belongs here or anywhere for that matter, so apologies in advance if it is not appropriate
I also have no agenda to denigrate victims.
I was reading over on the LDS thread (looking for more context haha), I realise that this is an offshoot of the Mormon church, rather like the Taliban and Muslims, and that they hold extreme beliefs/values, but these beliefs are based on the 'normative' values of the originating religion.
From my point of view these values are medieval, patriarchal, oppressive, and abusive to women.
It made me wonder why JA would choose to become a Mormon, which is rather like Aileen Wournos being a prostitute, when both choices served to further entrench their self beliefs and could only ever result in vicious anger?
She seems so far away from her 'self'. Very split off.

Yes, alienated from her femininity - but also trying to take on the Travis-world -view and identity, and become part of his purview. Combined with the sexual practices, HUGE , huge mistake. But that is part and parcel of the alienated world view.

 

[SMK]

Given I can't take Jodi's word for anything, if this story is true it makes me feel a little sympathy for the little girl she might have been.

I missed her testimony on direct when she discussed her upbringing, and I really don't care to go back and hear it at this point. But I believe she has a much older half-sister from another mother, a younger sister, a much younger brother, and maybe another brother somewhere in the mix. In the dog-kicking video she claims two of her younger siblings were still in diapers, and she was a young teen tasked with diaper disposal duty and cleanup.

What other work she was expected to do in the home idk, but maybe a lot since the family restaurant may have been an all-hands-on-deck deal. Samuels said Jodi told him that her parents loved all their children except her. She may have had good reason to believe that, even if only because she required more discipline than the others. I can imagine little Jodi resenting having to care and clean-up after her more loved siblings. I can imagine an unlovable young Jodi, tasked with diaper duty by a mom too busy to do it all herself, lashing out at a dog that had just added to her misery.

Good points, all - I think we can take it for granted that her upbringing was less than ideal in many, many aspects. I believe sociopaths - even with the brain wiring - are MADE, NOT born.

 

[Sleuth5]

My money is on her doing more than kicking. Poor baby. I am sick to death of these psychopaths getting away with torturing animals and killing people. I have my fill of it. From the criminals who told me what they did, I can barely function with all the carp that goes on and most people don't know about these da*n whackos! :jail:

Who knows how badly Caylee suffered? How many dogs did that anthony family go through? They sure as heck testified to a lot of burials. :banghead:

I'm with you, Whisperer. My money is also on a dog killing. I would be willing to bet she did it with a knife, too. I suspect she was carrying them early on. Bloodletting seems to be a fascination with her (Vampire beau).

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

yes right--we were lucky and we're wiser now. we have a new rule which is we don't buy, donate or do business over the phone or at the door. Yes I recall seeing that horrible story about the college boys killing the professor & his wife. dreadful.

I got several calls from an outfit calling themselves "Policemen's Benevolent Association" asking for a donation. I always just hung up the phone when I found out who it was. Finally I got really annoyed and the last time they called I asked them for their tax exempt number! When they tried double talk to change the subject, I then said "If our Policemen's pay is so bad they need "CHARITY" then something is very wrong!" This time they hung up on me and have not called back.

 

[shelley921]

OMG that must have been a scary situation. Geeze-that website IS full of horrible stories about magazine salesmen and other doorbell ringing salespeople. yuck.

If I am home alone I never answer the door unless I am expecting someone.

I found a link to the shocking Pennsylvania murder. You don't expect an exterminator to kill you. I guess we have make sure we have someone else with us when anyone does work in our home.

In today's world you need to protect yourself as much as you can.
Isn't it pathetic that a children's doctor who had something great to give to society - ended up being killed by a worthless do nothing idiot - !
What a total waste of a beautiful human life - and for WHAT ?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/philadelph...rician-killing/story?id=18299639#.UVGm1BzEKRo

This happened to us, except one of my young children let the people in and then yelled for me "mom, someone is here and wants to talk to you"...

As I turned the corner into our entry foyer I was SHOCKED to see two strangers standing with my young child IN MY HOME! The scariest thing is my children know not to let anyone in the house!

After this I was so startled, that I started doing research and found the following website that will send chills up your spine when ou read about the crimes that have been committed when people unknowingly let these "salespeople" into their homes:

http://www.travelingsalescrews.info/An Industry Rife With Fraud 082111.htm


There should actually be a section on the websleuths website dedicated to this subject. Crimes involving dangerous door to door "salesmen" are actually more prevalent than you'd imagine...

 

[IBsleuthin]

Well, I've read through all of these very interesting theories and clusters of diagnosis.

The human psyche is so complex and by it's very nature it is a 'cluster' of behaviors. Anyone of us and (everyone of us) at any given time can present and display glimpses of all of the diagnoses discussed here.

The PROBLEM shows up when one or more of these little personality gems causes an interference in your activities of daily living.

Such as: Obsessive compulsive, can't leave the house because they are checking and re-checking the lights or skin conditions from excessive hand washing...or another example would be KILLING YOUR BOYFRIEND.

This whole thing is amazing.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Excellent post and very good observations. Yes, she was/is odd with her body language.

Just an aside, with the headstand thing, as she had just asked if she could use her makeup before booking, and the answer was no, I always thought she did that headstand as a way to get blood to her face to look better.

Yes, she acted like a little girl with Flores and not a suspect. No doubt had something up her sleeve, and it may be that the wheels were spinning, hurriedly concocting an intruder theory as she took pieces of ideas from the patient Flores.

I too was disturbed by JA body language during her interrogation by Det. Flores. At one moment she was sitting with her knees up to her chin, (play)acting like a very young, innocent youngster. A posture you would see in a home, not in a Police interrogation.

When she splayed out all over the table with her arms outstretched, she reminded me of the way a lazy, contented cat lays, all loose and relaxed. Not what you would expect of a murder suspect.

I believe these were all tactics she very consciously used to make herself seem too naive and harmless to the Det. to be considered guilty of the gruesome crime.

Her affect was totally wrong for someone in her situation. Way too relaxed and the "I'm harmless" act was very apparent to me. Her "acting" was so bad it actually hurt her! :moo:

 

[Tiger09]

Well, I've read through all of these very interesting theories and clusters of diagnosis.

The human psyche is so complex and by it's very nature it is a 'cluster' of behaviors. Anyone of us and (everyone of us) at any given time can present and display glimpses of all of the diagnoses discussed here.

The PROBLEM shows up when one or more of these little personality gems causes an interference in your activities of daily living.

Such as: Obsessive compulsive, can't leave the house because they are checking and re-checking the lights or skin conditions from excessive hand washing...or another example would be KILLING YOUR BOYFRIEND.

This whole thing is amazing.

Hey I have OCD and my boyfriend is sitting in the living room safe and sound. I also have bipolar and BPD. I also have been in therapy and take my prescribed meds. No, the actual disorder can't be cured, but with therapy the symptoms can be relieved also medication helps. I still do weird things like making sure my cats have food and water and that the doors are closed so they don't get out. Yes, they are fat and spoiled. I prefer to think of them as fluffy and choosey.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Hey I have OCD and my boyfriend is sitting in the living room safe and sound. I also have bipolar and BPD. I also have been in therapy and take my prescribed meds. No, the actual disorder can't be cured, but with therapy the symptoms can be relieved also medication helps. I still do weird things like making sure my cats have food and water and that the doors are closed so they don't get out. Yes, they are fat and spoiled. I prefer to think of them as fluffy and choosey.

(Text highlighted by me to emphasize the point)...


I've been on these types of forums for many years.

A recurring theme that I have found is either the reader doesn't comprehend the post and responds, the reader does NOT WANT to comprehend what the post is about because the reader has a chip on their shoulder, or the reader is reading really fast and doesn't take the time to read the post.

I'm guilty of it as well and often times when I go back and RE-READ the post I find a whole different meaning to what was posted.

In NO WAY did I reference the idea anywhere in my post that OCD= killing your boyfriend. :banghead: I just simply did not post anything remotely to that idea.

What I wrote was an example of how a personality trait doesn't become a psychiatric diagnosis until it's causing a PROBLEM in the activities of your daily life. This is a pure fact of modern western psychology.

PLEASE take the time to read the post and not be so defensive about your condition. Believe it or not, not everyone is going around disrespecting you.

 

[lil_buddy]

I'm afraid you guys are missing what is interesting about the dog story:
1) It was in response to Det. Flores asking her if she has any anger issues. This was all she could come up with!? Not hitting her mother or siblings, not tire slashing, not cornering a girl in a bathroom to tell her that Travis is hers, not driving 150 miles to confront Bianca.

Even Flores says that kicking a dog once when you are a kid does not constitute anger issues.

2) How did the dog who was kept tied up in the yard just run away? I thinks she may have mortally wounded the dog.

3) She wants to apologize to the dog. This to me says volumes about her psychopathy. She thinks this is how a 'normal' person would feel/act. She thinks when 'normal' people do something wrong, they just say 'sorry' and everyone just lets it go.

If you had unintentionally hurt your pet and they ran away, would you go around saying you owe your pet an apology? Pets don't speak English; they don't forgive you when you apologize. You can make it up to your pet by giving them extra lovies and treats and promising to YOURSELF to never hurt your pet again.

 

[Gecko100]

I don't know to double post (blush), but I wanted to respond to the posts about the body language with Flores. She is very seductive, which is a tool of the histrionic PD. N's are very charming too, but she also comes across a little girly, kind of like - who me? I know we laugh at the 'expert' who just testified, but what if she is DID?
Any knowledge around that at all like her losing time? Apart from the misty minded mindlessness? Probably not...

 

[lil_buddy]

A recurring theme that I have found is either the reader doesn't comprehend the post and responds, the reader does NOT WANT to comprehend what the post is about because the reader has a chip on their shoulder, or the reader is reading really fast and doesn't take the time to read the post.

I would add that sometimes the writer does not state their point clearly leaving room for misinterpretation.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Cancun is not on the list of places to go to

Maybe not on the list they compiled - has that been made public or been entered into evidence?

The list I referred to is the trip roster list. In a news report yesterday, I heard that JA's name was originally on the roster or check-in list as to the one who would be along with TA. Haven't heard anything further about this since yesterday. If true, that means that JA was literally replaced as the one who would be going to Cancun with TA. This may be old news that escaped me as I missed the first two/three weeks of the trial.

It made me wonder if JA found out she wouldn't be going to Cancun on June 4. Or, as others have posted, she made a last ditch effort to be the one attending with TA and when that didn't work, she killed him. Although covenant is a strong word, she may have felt he broke one between them.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I would add that sometimes the writer does not state their point clearly leaving room for misinterpretation.

I'm sure this is true but one can always make a post asking for clarification or just skip the post altogether. When a poster jumps on another poster, it's usually because they are reacting out of emotion. Or, they don't want to consider views outside of their set opinion which is fine if they don't attack the other poster.