Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Woe.be.gone]

Was her mother an alcoholic or an abuser or something? Just want to be certain it was not "in self defense", as it were.

I agree with this because there are variables in the home dynamic that we aren't privy too. So to use the example that JA hit her mom once and then for everyone to think or say that she is violent seems like stretching a conclusion to me.

One could argue that if her mom and dad hit her a lot, she learned that behavior from them. I'm not talking about an early swat on the butt of a two year old running out into the street but the constant threat of being walloped. Even if a kid acts bratty there are other ways to discipline.
If your parents have a short fuse, you may end up that way too.

 

[westies4ever]

I feel so sorry for this jury. They'll probably need counseling to deal with this when this is over.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Here is the reference from Wikipedia:

Killing of Travis Alexander



The bolded was originally linked to: (oddly enough , the link is no longer there)



which has now been edited to leave out the ear to ear part. :what:Guess my citing it on Websleuths made the editors take a closer look. In any case, the entire verse is there somewhere in one of my March 2013 Websleuths posts.

But yes, she might well have viewed him as having broken faith with her and being under the penalty phase. Being ousted from this trip in favor of a younger virgin must have been the blow, her Achilles heel.

Yeah, we must be on the lookout for whole organizations that are willing to manipulate their laws, books, writings or whatever when it doesn't suit them.
One never knows when someone might take the info literally or out of context. Kind of like some holes are okay while others are not. That has to be the dumbest interpretation/justification for doing something you know is wrong (according to your religion) I'd ever heard. The Holy Spirit would have knocked me over for believing that one without any help.

 

[katiewonders]

This happened to us, except one of my young children let the people in and then yelled for me "mom, someone is here and wants to talk to you"...

As I turned the corner into our entry foyer I was SHOCKED to see two strangers standing with my young child IN MY HOME! The scariest thing is my children know not to let anyone in the house!

After this I was so startled, that I started doing research and found the following website that will send chills up your spine when ou read about the crimes that have been committed when people unknowingly let these "salespeople" into their homes:

http://www.travelingsalescrews.info/An Industry Rife With Fraud 082111.htm


There should actually be a section on the websleuths website dedicated to this subject. Crimes involving dangerous door to door "salesmen" are actually more prevalent than you'd imagine...

My husband once wrote a check for a very expensive box of candy to a person, "Coach somebody or other". I told him not to, that it was a scam but he did anyway because he was afraid the house would be robbed if he did not.

Scamming, it's just wrong!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I feel so sorry for this jury. They'll probably need counseling to deal with this when this is over.

This has been on my mind too. I feel so badly for them if they come to the wrong conclusion according to the masses. There is a lynch mob mentality developing these days attached to these high profile trials.

In the meantime, infants and children are being gunned down in the streets and people keep giving birth to children they know they can't afford to feed. Individuals are blowing up and shooting people in schools and theaters. People of certain religious sects are literally torturing people behind manmade walls where children are born under their control and used accordingly.

Tangent.

 

[SMK]

I agree with this because there are variables in the home dynamic that we aren't privy too. So to use the example that JA hit her mom once and then for everyone to think or say that she is violent seems like stretching a conclusion to me.

One could argue that if her mom and dad hit her a lot, she learned that behavior from them. I'm not talking about an early swat on the butt of a two year old running out into the street but the constant threat of being walloped. Even if a kid acts bratty there are other ways to discipline.
If your parents have a short fuse, you may end up that way too.

Thank you, and yes, that was my point. Whether she kicked and hit her mother , or as is now being said, kicked the dog, there is a high likelihood that father or mother or both had a propensity to this behavior too, and it rubbed off on her. Have seen it first hand. A child exposed to violence will become violent. Jodi may be a reflection of a long-standing familial problem.

 

[SMK]

Yeah, we must be on the lookout for whole organizations that are willing to manipulate their laws, books, writings or whatever when it doesn't suit them.
One never knows when someone might take the info literally or out of context. Kind of like some holes are okay while others are not. That has to be the dumbest interpretation/justification for doing something you know is wrong (according to your religion) I'd ever heard. The Holy Spirit would have knocked me over for believing that one without any help.

I agree - the ideal of "Chastity" could not possibly mean, "have anal sex, because it is not really sex and thus you are chaste".:furious: Chastity would imply saving one's sexuality for the bride or bridegroom.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Wouldn't be surprised if she killed that dog.

If true, this is the kind of evidence they need to be presenting.
So far no diabolical priors have been presented.
It doesn't matter what any of us think or hope or say or suggest.

We know JA killed TA.
I haven't heard of any grievous behaviors before June of 2008.
It doesn't matter if we don't like her personality.

Why are they even discussing anything other than the circumstances surrounding the crime?

I'm confused as the defense isn't based on her mental state before the crime.

 

[lil_buddy]

If true, this is the kind of evidence they need to be presenting.
So far no diabolical priors have been presented.
It doesn't matter what any of us think or hope or say or suggest.

We know JA killed TA.
I haven't heard of any grievous behaviors before June of 2008.
It doesn't matter if we don't like her personality.

Why are they even discussing anything other than the circumstances surrounding the crime?

I'm confused as the defense isn't based on her mental state before the crime.

The prosecution will NEVER be able to present this evidence - it would be ruled too prejudicial.

 

[Equinoxical]

I was reading over on the LDS thread (looking for more context haha), I realise that this is an offshoot of the Mormon church, rather like the Taliban and Muslims, and that they hold extreme beliefs/values, but these beliefs are based on the 'normative' values of the originating religion.
From my point of view these values are medieval, patriarchal, oppressive, and abusive to women.
It made me wonder why JA would choose to become a Mormon, which is rather like Aileen Wournos being a prostitute, when both choices served to further entrench their self beliefs and could only ever result in vicious anger?
She seems so far away from her 'self'. Very split off.

I think Jodi found a rich vein of potential victims in the Mormon church: there's a lot of socializing in the wards (from what I gather) designed specifically to bring young people together because it's important in the church to be married by the age of 30. It seems like the Mormon church is a huge network, and there would have been a LOT of possibilities for her to meet a wealthy, well-connected young man.

I think she thought she'd found her ticket with TA and was pi**ed when the whole thing fell apart.

I don't think the actual "religion" part of Mormonism meant anything to her at all...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thank you, and yes, that was my point. Whether she kicked and hit her mother , or as is now being said, kicked the dog, there is a high likelihood that father or mother or both had a propensity to this behavior too, and it rubbed off on her. Have seen it first hand. A child exposed to violence will become violent. Jodi may be a reflection of a long-standing familial problem.

From what I heard JA said it was her dad who frequently got rough with her. She may resent her mom for just standing by while this happened. Still, why even get into this testimony when it doesn't speak to the angle of the defense?

I'm frustrated because it's unclear why info is being discussed that doesn't support her defense. Samuels focused on PTSD resulting from her crime to explain her odd behavior. If she was beaten or afraid of her father, she could really have developed PTSD from that treatment.
That said it's neither here nor there because that's not the angle of the defense.

On another note, the new witness is interesting and she's back on the stand.
I hope the prosecution treats her with respect as she's already convinced me she deserves it (as should everybody who is not on trial imo).

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The prosecution will NEVER be able to present this evidence - it would be ruled too prejudicial.

Oh you know what? I think I'm mixing up info that's been presented on TV shows versus testimony/info presented during the trial.
Thanks for the reminder.

It's sensationalism.

 

[lil_buddy]

From what I heard JA say it was her dad who frequently got rough with her. She may resent her mom for just standing by while this happened. Still, why even get into this testimony when it doesn't speak to the angle of the defense?

I'm frustrated because it's unclear why info is being discussed that doesn't support her defense. Samuels focused on PTSD resulting from her crime to explain her odd behavior. If she was beaten or afraid of her father, she could really have developed PTSD from that treatment.
That said it's neither here nor there because that's not the angle of the defense.

On another note, the new witness is interesting and she's back on the stand.
I hope the prosecution treats her with respect as she's already convinced me she deserves it (as should everybody who is not on trial imo).

Just curious, are you watching the trial? Because JA said that her mother beat her more/more intensely than her father.

She was physically punished as a child as MANY people are. There is nothing to support that it was really outside the norm or brutal.

Did you see JA's answers to the PSD question on which the PTSD dx was based?

 

[SMK]

Just curious, are you watching the trial? Because JA said that her mother beat her more/more intensely than her father.

She was physically punished as a child as MANY people are. There is nothing to support that it was really outside the norm or brutal.

Did you see JA's answers to the PSD question on which the PTSD dx was based?

As she lies to everyone and even to herself constantly, this would indicate that it was her FATHER who did more of the beatings. You disbelieve her on everything else, and on this point choose to believe her????:what:

 

[IBsleuthin]

I would add that sometimes the writer does not state their point clearly leaving room for misinterpretation.

I would just love it if you would provide and example of this. THANK YOU so much, ahead of time. :goodpost:

 

[IBsleuthin]

Oh you know what? I think I'm mixing up info that's been presented on TV shows versus testimony/info presented during the trial.
Thanks for the reminder.

It's sensationalism.

Don't feel bad I do that all the time. I even get stuff mixed up about what has been discussed on a crime forum! It's ok, that's what these forums are for.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't know to double post (blush), but I wanted to respond to the posts about the body language with Flores. She is very seductive, which is a tool of the histrionic PD. N's are very charming too, but she also comes across a little girly, kind of like - who me? I know we laugh at the 'expert' who just testified, but what if she is DID?
Any knowledge around that at all like her losing time? Apart from the misty minded mindlessness? Probably not...

She appeared to revert into a little girl when talking with Flores. Whether she was acting or not, I can only guess.

If you want to quote a post, on that post you're linking to, hit the 'quote' button on the bottom right. A window will open where you can type your response.

If you want to double link, press the little marks to the right of the quote button but before doing anything else go to the next post and press the little marks and then the quote button too. Both posts will show up in a window and you'll be able to reply to both of them in the same post. Once in the window, you can position the cursor where you want to type your response.

 

[lil_buddy]

As she lies to everyone and even to herself constantly, this would indicate that it was her FATHER who did more of the beatings. You disbelieve her on everything else, and on this point choose to believe her????:what:

I disregard the veracity of EVERYTHING JA says.
This does not mean I assume the opposite is true.
Do you really believe lying means the opposite is true?

In this case, as I have indicated previously, I DO believe that corporal punishment was used in her home as it is widely accepted in the US. I don't believe it was truly abusive in the sense that there is no evidence to show ANY of the Arias children were injured.

Out of curiosity, I'm interested in knowing posters' ages and education level...

 

[SMK]

I disregard the veracity of EVERYTHING JA says.
This does not mean I assume the opposite is true.
Do you really believe lying means the opposite is true?

In this case, as I have indicated previously, I DO believe that corporal punishment was used in her home as it is widely accepted in the US. I don't believe it was truly abusive in the sense that there is no evidence to show ANY of the Arias children were injured.

Out of curiosity, I'm interested in knowing posters' ages and education level...

:furious: None of your business, but born 1959; studied philosophy at the University of Pittsburgh and Fairleigh Dickinson University; honors' scholar and member of Phi Beta Epsilon; Did my thesis on Nietzsche'sThe Geneology of Morals, studied classical Latin and did an oral presentation in Latin on the letters of Seneca to his pupil; undertook independent studies in classical Aristotlean logic and Nichomachean ethcis, along with philosophical jurisprudence; did graduate work....... but...... :furious: How does this really matter in relation to the Arias case? Or to anything I might say here? I do not, by the way, believe in corporeal punishment of any kind and do view it as a form of abuse.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Just curious, are you watching the trial? Because JA said that her mother beat her more/more intensely than her father.

She was physically punished as a child as MANY people are. There is nothing to support that it was really outside the norm or brutal.

Did you see JA's answers to the PSD question on which the PTSD dx was based?

I am. I tivo it so I can speed through a lot of the stuff. I'm going to start watching the first hour from today now.
I remember her talking about her parents but don't remember it the same way you do. I remember her talking about her mom and her wooden spoon, turning around and smacking them in the back seat of the car. Also that her dad's hitting of her escalated as she got older. She fell over furniture of something.

I can't diagnose JA because I'm not a doctor and I don't know how to interpret the tests. Samuels said she scored 17 or 15 for PTSD iirc and that's considered high. He concluded her PTSD resulted from her crime.