ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#24

[marlywings]

I understand and I'm sure it's a pretty difficult decision for any Judge to make. However, legally he is innocent and if all boiled down to just whatever "untested" evidence the prosecution had, then bail wouldn't exist. Nobody would be out on bail just because they are accused of a crime. At this stage, whatever evidence they present tomorrow has not be cross-examined (if that's the right word). It may be all circumstancial too.

I'm not so sure whether it's just all circumstancial evidence they have on him...just going by the fact it took them only two months to make an arrest. In some other cases I've read it's taken months, even years to make an arrest & in those it's just circumstantial.

That, & the fact police were concerned about his mental health around the time of his arrest, I think will be considered as to whether or not he gets let out on bail.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I understand and I'm sure it's a pretty difficult decision for any Judge to make. However, legally he is innocent and if all boiled down to just whatever "untested" evidence the prosecution had, then bail wouldn't exist. Nobody would be out on bail just because they are accused of a crime. At this stage, whatever evidence they present tomorrow has not be cross-examined (if that's the right word). It may be all circumstancial too.

Yes innocent until proven guilty. and I admit I am not too familiar with how the bail side of things works in depth. I didn't mean though, it just depends on 'untested' evidence.. Essentially I mean in weighing up both sides it doesn't just come down to what the defense puts up as their compelling reasons for him to receive bail. It also needs to be considered from the judges point of view, what the prosecution also tables before him/her as their reasons against.. Which is why I said it depends on what they(police) have(because I don't know what they have against him) as to whether bail is granted.

MOO

 

[Bayside]

I'm not so sure whether it's just all circumstancial evidence they have on him...just going by the fact it took them only two months to make an arrest. In some other cases I've read it's taken months, even years to make an arrest & in those it's just circumstantial.

That, & the fact police were concerned about his mental health around the time of his arrest, I think will be considered as to whether or not he gets let out on bail.

Good point about the mental health concerns.

What is getting him away from the gen population at the moment may work against him in a bail application.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I'm not so sure whether it's just all circumstancial evidence they have on him...just going by the fact it took them only two months to make an arrest. In some other cases I've read it's taken months, even years to make an arrest & in those it's just circumstantial.

That, & the fact police were concerned about his mental health around the time of his arrest, I think will be considered as to whether or not he gets let out on bail.

Agree, I think his mental state will come into it. And I also agree, I highly doubt(but do not know), that what the police has is only circumstantial.. I guess we will find out in another day just whether he did or didn't get bail.

 

[Mothergoose]

Its a game they play, they may not feel they have enough yet to convince the judge to give him bail. they also may (read: will) have info they may need to combat.

Its very strategic and this is why they get the bug bucks

I agree and they could also be biding for time as presently his reported alleged mental state would go strongly against him getting bail now. Give him a few weeks and "He'll be O.K.". MOO

 

[CaseClosed]

13th!..They published with that date?? Wow thats a bit of misreporting...

Yep we will find out soon enough I guess re the bail.

No, sorry, I have misread the sentence ... June 13 was the arrest date. I deleted the message.

 

[possumheart]

I was thinking he could go to a nice private psychiatric hospital if bailed.

 

[Bayside]

What factors does the court consider?

When considering your application for bail the court may consider whether you:
•are accused of a serious crime
•have a place to live
•are employed
•are of good character and background
•have previous criminal convictions
•have breached bail before
•are likely to appear in court
•will endanger the safety or welfare of members of the public
•will interfere with witnesses or otherwise obstruct the course of justice
•are likely to reoffend.

Who must be served with the application?

You need to serve a copy of the bail application, along with any supporting affidavits or documents, on the prosecutor.

Unless the prosecutor agrees to an extension of time, this must be done at least two complete business days before the application is to be heard.

What if I have already applied for and been refused bail?

If you have already applied for bail and been refused, you must state in the supporting affidavit any change of circumstances that justifies a reapplication.

If bail is granted, what conditions can be imposed?

Bail conditions imposed on a defendant may include:
•a requirement to report to a particular police station on certain days during specified hours
•a limitation on contact, or no contact, between the defendant and the complainant or witnesses
•financial conditions where the defendant must find a person who: ◦can guarantee the bail money
◦has sufficient assets
◦no criminal connections
◦a requirement to live at a certain address and/or with a certain person
◦curfews for young offenders
◦non-consumption of alcohol, drugs, or attendance at rehabilitation.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

This line of thinking makes me consider the accomplice with the criminal history. I know many on this forum think GBC had the cajones to do something this brutal and sadi stic off his own bat, but too me he seems incapable, even although at times he has looked evil and icy like after his arrest, I know many of you are fond of the sociopath theory, so that wouldn't fit this scenario that I'm putting forth, but It seems to fit my perception of him better MOO

so Minni, would this situation make you lean towards thinking someone was HIRED to do the job? I just can't see it being a professional job - so many lose ends.

 

[Bayside]

I agree with you Possum.....what the hell really happened? I still get stuck on thoughts that GBC is the accessory, and this is all some elaborate plan to lure the real murderer....but how ridiculous is my thinking to even allow this concept to be considered? I dont know why I think like this, nothing points to it, so I cant explain it...just one of those things stuck in my head. Maybe I still pray that his children havent lost both their parents. and maybe I will never be able to fathom that he would have done that to them if he loved them. anyway, my other question that I go over every day is

WHY WAS ALLISON KILLED? and I think that until I know that answer I won't be able to get this thought out of my head :banghead:

Nothing wrong with thinking the way you do, it would be wonderful if he ended up not being guilty. That would be the best thing for the kids under the circumstances.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

If the hand(s) rumour is true, I cannot imagine him allegedly doing that. I just can't. IMO, it would have either been just because of decomposition and animals in the area or IMO it would have to have been done by someone other than the accused.

I struggle to imagine this too. I will say this, IF it happened and I was even just a witness, not the perpetrator, it would certainly make me sit and cry at the roundabout. I think it is possible because I fundamentally believe that we can do anything to protect ourselves in a crisis. It would take very powerful moral fibre to overcome one's fear and do the decent thing when one is at risk of a lifetime in clink or worse.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

What factors does the court consider?

When considering your application for bail the court may consider whether you:
•are accused of a serious crime•have a place to live
•are employed
•are of good character and background
•have previous criminal convictions
•have breached bail before
•are likely to appear in court
•will endanger the safety or welfare of members of the public
•will interfere with witnesses or otherwise obstruct the course of justice
•are likely to reoffend.
.

Hoping, hoping....that the first item has stronger weight than the rest

 

[minni]

so Minni, would this situation make you lean towards thinking someone was HIRED to do the job? I just can't see it being a professional job - so many lose ends.

It lets me consider leaning towards another party doing this part of the 'job'. Not GBC. maybe a hired hitman, although too many loose ends for sure for that to be the case, although I've heard of worse 'hitmen'!! maybe another family member??

 

[marlywings]

Good point about the mental health concerns.

What is getting him away from the gen population at the moment may work against him in a bail application.

I just listened to the news video again..."allegedly concerned about his emotional state after days of them questioning family & friends"....I think he was veryyy worried & not a bit ok at that time.

 

[J-Diggety]

If the hand(s) rumour is true, I cannot imagine him allegedly doing that. I just can't. IMO, it would have either been just because of decomposition and animals in the area or IMO it would have to have been done by someone other than the accused.

I cant either, but I also find it hard to believe that this situation has occured, mind boggling stuff.

 

[minni]

It lets me consider leaning towards another party doing this part of the 'job'. Not GBC. maybe a hired hitman, although too many loose ends for sure for that to be the case, although I've heard of worse 'hitmen'!! maybe another family member??

someone less connected to Allison, I don't know..he just doesnt look like he has the guts

 

[Makara]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...o-apply-for-bail-tomorrow-20120620-20n4h.html

Solicitors acting for accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay are yet to file paperwork for his bail application to the courts.

Mr Baden-Clay will have his application for bail heard in Brisbane's Supreme Court tomorrow after being taken into custody, on a charge of murdering his wife Allison Baden-Clay, on June 13.

A copy of the bail application and any supporting documents, such as affidavits in support of the person applying for bail, must be given to the prosecutor "two clear days" before the application is heard in court.

BBM:

Interesting!

 

[Mothergoose]

This was on the Australian Law site.

Like many criminal law matters, the granting of bail is different in each State and Territory.

As a general rule, there is a presumption that a person arrested and charged with an offence will be granted bail.

However, like everything, there are some exceptions. Where a person is charged with murder, serious drug offences or multiple serious property offences, there may be a presumption against the person receiving bail.

There are many factors that will be considered when an application for bail is determined. Some of these will include:

the likelihood that you will or will not appear in court. In determining this the court will consider you family and community ties, the circumstances and seriousness of the offence and any previous failure to appear in court;
your interests, for example, if you do not receive bail, how long you may be required to spend on remand, if you need to be free to prepare your case, or any other special circumstances you have;
the need to protect the welfare of the community. In determining this the court may consider the likelihood you will commit further offences while on bail, the likelihood you may interfere with jurors and evidence, whether you were on bail at the time you committed the offence in question.

Whether or not a person will receive bail will depend upon the facts of the case.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Revisiting early days.

The family cars have been impounded by police and they've also taken his mobile phone.

Friends yesterday described the 41-year-old real estate principal as a "mess" who believed his wife's disappearance was linked to depression.

They said he was a "gentle" man who believed his wife would eventually return home.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...den-clay-goes-on/story-e6freuzr-1226339293043

 

[marlywings]

Whether or not a person will receive bail will depend upon the facts of the case.

Well by this time tomorrow we'll know whether or not he's received bail....

I hope that's not the case because I dread to think what could happen to those little girls especially when you hear of soo many other cases where the parent has taken off with the kids, killed them & themselves in a murder/suicide.