Arrest in JBR case part 2

[michelle]

thanks JBean...this is just wild....i read a couple of posts where folks thought Karr looked drugged....i just saw a brief clip of him & he definately looked drugged/wiped out, almost staggering trying to stand up....

i hope the press conf gives us some good details of this arrest....

They said he was stuttering and was shaking, very nervous. In the one pic I seen, he looked creepy.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I saw the man on TV, and he looks like he's a few bricks shy of a full load. I think he is capable of saying anything... and he looks like he's enjoying all of the attention and publicity, too. I do believe he love(d) JonBenet, but I don't think he even knew about her until after her death. He's just a sick, twisted pervert who fell in love with her images, IMO. And as far as the "facts" that he's so acquainted with... he could have gotten them from Michael Tracy or any of the other people he emailed with over the last 4 years (as per Tracy).

And if I was going to be tried in Thailand on any kind of sex charges, and held in a Thai prison, I would confess to murdering anyone to get myself out of their prison and back to the U.S.

Please don't get me wrong... I would like nothing more than the real perp to be arrested, tried and convicted in JonBenet's murder. And I'm willing to go where the evidence points. BUt I am not willing to trust the words of a man who (a) runs from this crime for 10 years, and then (b) sings like a bird the second he's caught. It doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense that he was in Alabama, Georgia and Colorado over Christmas of 1996. There are too many discrepancies for me to believe this is the right guy. And just the fact that Michael Tracy is involved in any way with this guy's arrest makes my skin crawl.

 

[JBean]

thanks JBean...this is just wild....i read a couple of posts where folks thought Karr looked drugged....i just saw a brief clip of him & he definately looked drugged/wiped out, almost staggering trying to stand up....

i hope the press conf gives us some good details of this arrest....

Here's the video:
http://video.ap.org/v/en-ap/v.htm?g...f=sccha&fg=copy

 

[Beyond Belief]

Can someone please set up a poll? I tried to figure out how to do it to no avail.

I am wondering what WS people think about this guy---especially the ones who have been posting in the JBR forum for so long!!

Anyone???

What do you wwant it to say? I lldo it but i am still half asleep

 

[christine2448]

I just started a thread for news conference today and today's news....can you all posters that are at home pop in there and post what the news is saying today and tell us what's goin on at the press conference????

I shoulda called out sick today!

 

[dragonfly707]

John Karr's Sonoma County Connection:


http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060817/NEWS/608170303/1033/NEWS01

 

[close_enough]

OK, is it just me??...10 yrs ago, this guy Karr would have looked like a kid, imo....

 

[dragonfly707]

There was some discussion last night as to whether or not the internet resume was the same guy as the arrest, well this news photo kind of confirms that it is the same guy. IMHO


http://www.pressdemo.com/

 

[Blondieskatz]

It is very weird, but I really want justice!!! I cant take it. Its like we all know that scott killed laci but how. Is that sick or just normal humans just wanting to know how and why?

No, I thinks it's very normal. There are so many questions I have about this case and others. I know I driv my husband crazy with the question "will we ever be able to have all our qustions answered?"

 

[christine2448]

OK, is it just me??...10 yrs ago, this guy Karr would have looked like a kid, imo....

He still looks like a kid! Creepy!

 

[LuvsSunshine]

This may have already been posted by someone but I just noticed on my MSN home page this statement from the report of arrest of John Karr. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14379566/?GT1=8404

"Suspect says kidnapping went awry
He said Karr insisted his crime was not first-degree murder but that JonBenet died during a kidnapping attempt that went awry.

“He said it was second-degree murder. He said it was unintentional,” Suwat said. He said Karr told Thai interrogators that he picked JonBenet up at her school and brought her to the family’s basement..

Bold print inserted by me. This may have already been discussed, but I haven't had a chance to read all the posts yet.

 

[sheba1]

Can u believe this? he has likely been molesting children all over the place and he worked with babies for gods sake.

-Private Teacher / Caregiver (2002-03 in Western Europe) as follows:

Germany: Three girls - 7, 11, and 12: I taught English to the girls through conversational and instructional methods.
I gave computer instruction to the girls via their laptop PC's. I drove the girls to their activities: ballet, riding,
handball, etc. I assisted the girls with their homework.

Germany: Two girls - 5 and 8; boy 10: I taught English to the children through conversational and instructional
methods. I awoke the children in the morning and gave them breakfast. I helped the children get ready for school
and escorted them to the school bus. I helped the 8 year old girl with her homework each day. I took the children
outside for play. At days end, I made sure the children had their evening bath, then put them to bed and read to
them before they went to sleep.

Netherlands: Baby girl 9 months, boy 3, and girl 4: I taught English to the three year old boy and four year old girl,
through conversational and instructional methods. I was very attentive to needs of the baby which included
changing, feeding, and bathing her. I helped the baby when she learned to walk at 10 and a half months. I fostered
independence in the children's activities.

-Teacher of English (2001-2002 Asia and Western Europe) as follows:

Seoul, Korea: I was a classroom teacher of English for children aged 6 to 12. Duties included planning lessons,
conducting classes as the sole teacher in the classroom, making assignments, and issuing grades. I taught 22
classes per week. The classes were 45 minutes in duration with an average class size of 18.

Heemstede, Netherlands: I volunteered as an English teacher at an atheneum school, planning and conducting
activities revolving around English and the U.S. culture.

-Primary School Teacher (1996-2001 and Currently) in some of the most prestigious schools in the United States,
working with children from high profile families. I have taught all classes to elementary students including English,
Math, Science, Reading, Social Studies, History, and Computer Technology. I have taught Physical Education with
large groups of 100 to 150 students, ages 5 to 10. I have worked with large groups of children in school plays.

-Private English, Reading and Math Tutor (1996-2001) for elementary students ages 8 to 12 on a private basis for
an hourly rate.

-Computer Instruction (1998-1999) for children in primary school and adults in community college. Instruction for
adults including Microsoft Word, Powerpoint, and Internet, using mostly the Windows PC environment but also
including the Macintosh operating system.

A couple of things stood out to me.
1. I wonder and hope the authorities have followed up with these families to find out if there was any indication or suspition by the families of any "grooming" of these children, he was the caretaker for, and why did he leave those positions? (as many pedophiles do). If indeed he's serious about his confession, he's supply them with the families names he worked for, and they could follow up.

2. His real estate and remoddeling experience. Wonder if he ever applied for a position with the Rams on one of many of their remodelling jobs? During the interview process, he could have become familiar with the layout of the house, and if hired would have had a key. Remember Patsy said they had alot of workers on their house(s), and they had keys.

3. As in above, wonder if he ever applied with the Rams to tutor JBR, again saime as above, becoming familiar with house.

4. It just makes sense if he was interested in children, he would have been familiar with pics of JBR through her pagaents. He says he loves her, it makes sense he'd contact the Rams for a position re any of the above.

It could be the Rams just don't remember him, as in the Elizabeth Smart case.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I guess they DNA will tell all - but doesn't that take a few weeks/months??? Also, seems I read that there was something found in her panties, as well as a few blood splatters found somewhere.

Call me confused, but from what I have read so far he reportedly was just going to kidnap her and things went array. So, then he sat down and took God knows how long to write a ransom note???? I would think he would be freaking and rush out of the house - why the ransom note if she is dead?

OR, did he take time to write the note BEFORE HE WOKE her FED her
pineapple and KILLED her???? Any why $118,000 - why not $107,398.23???? That seems like such an odd amount - $100,00 maybe, $125,000, $200,000, but $118,000?

IMO, this guy is starting to sound like a real fruit loop. If he is the right guy, I think that he probably took pleasure in wandering around the house while no one was there, and came across the bonus check in the amount of $118,000. At that point, he probably decided to incorporate it into this scenario that he was orchestrating.

 

[christine2448]

wandering around the house while no one was there, and came across the bonus check in the amount of $118,000.

Never thought of that! Hmmmmmm.

 

[sheba1]

Makes no sense. :hand: That's not the M.O. of child molesters/serial killers, they don't leave ransom notes.:snooty: Why leave a ransom note if you don't even have a body to ransom???:doh: More likely the ransom note was part of the staging to cover up JB's murder.

But wouldn't it make sense that he'd write the Ransom note while waiting for the Rams to come home, to buy himself time to get away with JBR? Again, I'm thinking of Elizabeth Smart case, if this guy wanted time alone with JBR, and had no intentions of killing her (said it was an accident), he'd need the Ransom note to give him time to take her away. IMO, in his sick mind, he loved her and wanted her forever with him. She no doubt started fighting him off and he lost it and struck her, dealing the fatal blow, therefore "it being an accident" in his mind. Or if he used a taser or stun gun, then abused her, she awoke during the attack, tried to stuggle or make some kind of noise, and again, I repeat, he lost it and dealth the fatal blow.

This is assuming of course that he's indeed guilty and just hypothesis.

Edited to add: maybe he found the reference to Johns bonus on the desk, used that in the note, but had no intention of collecting it, it was just another way to buy time to get away as they wait for the call with delivery instructions?

 

[kwatson696]

An evolving controversy: Timeline



1996

Dec. 26: Patsy Ramsey says she has found a 2 1/2-page ransom note on a staircase demanding $118,000 for JonBenét. Several hours later, John Ramsey brings his daughter's body up from the basement.

Dec. 31: JonBenét, wearing a tiny tiara, is buried in Marietta, Ga. The family hires an attorney, a publicist and investigators.

1997

Jan. 1: John and Patsy Ramsey grant an exclusive interview to CNN. Patsy Ramsey tells viewers: "There is a killer on the loose."

Jan. 4: Reports surface that JonBenét's skull was fractured and the ransom note was written on paper obtained from a tablet in the Ramsey home.

Jan. 21: Police say they have narrowed their list of suspects. Reports reveal that the amount of the ransom demand equaled a bonus Ramsey received at work.

Jan. 22: The Ramsey family reportedly refuses to submit to polygraph tests.

Feb. 12: The Ramseys refuse to agree to police conditions on interviews.

Feb. 13: District Attorney Alex Hunter, above right, announces "dream team" task force, including crime-scene analyst Henry Lee, also above, and DNA expert Barry Scheck.

Feb. 14: Portions of the autopsy report are released, indicating JonBenét suffered severe head injuries, was strangled and may have been sexually assaulted.

Feb. 24: A Ramsey spokesman says family members know they are "at the top of the list of possible suspects."

March 6: Authorities clear JonBenét's adult half siblings, John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey, as suspects. Later, JonBenét's brother, Burke, 9 at the time of her death, was cleared.

March 13: Retired Colorado Springs police investigator Lou Smit, left, joins the investigation team.

March 28: The family fires its media consultant.

April 18: District Attorney Alex Hunter says the Ramseys are under an "umbrella of suspicion" but that no conclusion has been reached.

April 23: Ramsey lawyers send a scathing letter to authorities accusing police of a lack of objectivity.

April 27: The Ramseys run a newspaper ad offering a $100,000 reward for information about JonBenét's killer.

April 30: The Ramseys are interviewed separately by police, the first formal sessions since the slaying.

May 14: Two detectives, including the first to arrive at the Ramsey home, are removed from the case.

June 27: The Colorado Bureau of Investigation completes an analysis of the fifth handwriting sample from Patsy Ramsey. Investigators say John Ramsey did not write the note, but the results are inconclusive about his wife.

July 23: Ramsey steps up his investigation and criticism of police.

Sept. 8: DA Hunter releases copies of the ransom note.

Oct. 10: Cmdr. Mark Beckner replaces John Eller as lead investigator. Police Chief Tom Koby admits mistakes were made early in the case.

1998

Jan. 16: The Ramseys refuse a subsequent interview unless investigators show them all the evidence.

March 12: Police say a grand jury should be convened to ensure a "a complete investigation."

March 31: Koby says he will step down as soon as a replacement is found.

May 19: Detective Linda Arndt, the first detective on the scene in the Ramsey case, sues Koby, alleging he used her as a scapegoat.

June 1-2: Police present more than 30,000 pages of evidence to 16 criminal-justice experts, including Hunter, in hopes the case will be given to a grand jury.

June 23-25: JonBenét's parents are questioned separately by police, their first interviews in more than a year. JonBenét's brother is interviewed for about six hours. July 9: The Ramseys deny involvement

in JonBenét's death during a documentary that aired on British television.


Aug. 6: Lead Detective Steve Thomas resigns, accusing Hunter's staff of being compromised, of refusing to issue search warrants and of refusing to cooperate with police.

Aug. 12: Gov. Roy Romer refuses a second request to appoint a special prosecutor. Hunter says he will give the case to a grand jury.

Sept. 15: The grand jury begins its investigation.

Sept. 25: In another sign of disputes among authorities, Lou Smit, a retired Colorado Springs police investigator who had joined the investigative team, resigns, claiming JonBenét's parents were innocent.

Sept. 29: John Ramsey blasts police in a letter sent to news organizations.

Oct. 29: Grand jurors tour the former Ramsey home.

1999

Jan. 28: Hunter asks the public's help in locating the manufacturer of a toy bear in a Santa Claus suit reportedly found in JonBenét's room.

Sept. 23: The grand jury returns to work for the first time since May 25.

Oct. 13: The district attorney announces that no indictments are to be issued, citing lack of sufficient evidence.

2002

February: The Ramseys' family attorney says doctors have diagnosed a recurrence of ovarian cancer in Patsy Ramsey. She was first diagnosed in 1993.

District Attorney Mary Keenan (now Mary Lacy) announces that her office is taking over the Ramsey investigation.

2003

April: Keenan says she agrees with a federal judge in Atlanta that the evidence points to an intruder, not the 6-year-old beauty queen's parents, as the girl's killer.

June: Keenan says retired Arvada detective Tom Bennett will spend 20 to 30 hours a week on the case.

2004

May: The staff of Gov. Bill Owens meets with a group, Forums for Justice, that wants a special prosecutor appointed in the case.

June: Denver police say a DNA profile of blood taken from JonBenét Ramsey's underpants does not match any of the more than 1.5 million DNA profiles in the FBI's database. The family's attorney says it also does not match her parents.

Aug. 3: John Ramsey finishes second among six candidates in the GOP primary to be elected to the Michigan House. December: CBS's "48 Hours Mystery" reports that a police crime lab has produced a DNA composite of JonBenét's killer, and Boulder authorities have a list of more than 100 "people of interest." John and Patsy Ramsey are not on it.



2005

Aug 29: Former Telluride town marshal Jim Kolar is named the Boulder County district attorney's lead investigator in the case.2006 June 24: Patsy Ramsey dies of ovarian cancer at age 49.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

so would I, meaning i would take one but thats not enuf to convict them..(in a court)..and after that its opinion which we are all entitled to.
John Walsh thinks they are innocent and i have alot of respect for him.

And who knows what exactly the police were saying to them. After a while, you realize that they're not interested in helping you, they're interested in gaining a confession. At that point, you probably realize that anything you say or do is going to be twisted to fit their theory, and you're better off not saying or doing anything for them.

 

[dragonfly707]

I posted this last night on another thread (see below) the weird thing is do a google groups search for the word 'Powerwurks" I think this guy has been around for quite a wihile with some pretty detailed webscams in order to have contact with young kids. And notice the dates for Powerwurks postings they are all around the 1996 time frame.

1
From:an516222 - view profileDate:Thurs, Mar 7 1996 12:00 am Email: an516...@anon.penet.fiGroups: alt.missing-kids

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If it would help anyone on this newsgroup, I have the complete data base of
the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children. I downloaded it from
their website. Their URL is http://www.missingkids.org If you don't have web
access, I'd be glad to help.


My name is John Karr, creator of PowerWurks; a world wide support
organization for kids, teens and college students. At this time, it is an
e-mail based crisis feedback program. I have alot of plans for the future,
like an 800 hotline and more. All my plans revolve around kids. I am very
concerned about the well being of all young people. I'll do anything I can to
help find a missing child. I have 3 children of my own and I don't know what
I would do if they were taken from me.


Please don't hesitate to ask for my assistance. I can't send the huge data
base to you but I will share any information that might help you.


Please respond via e-mail to PowerWu...@aol.com
For quicker response, *don't* address e-mail to an516...@anon.penet.fi.


Sincerely,
John Karr
PowerWurks
Support/Feedback/Security
PowerWu...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/powerwurks/index.htm
--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION***
Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
Please, report inappropriate use to a...@anon.penet.fi
For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to h...@anon.penet.fi
If you have any problems, address them to a...@anon.penet.fi

 

[Kim Ii]

There is a woman by the name of Kay Griggs, a former Marine Colonel's wife, who has gone underground to tell of "Military Assassin Squads, Drug Running, Illegal Weapon Deals And Sexual Perversion Deep Within The Highest Levels Of U.S. Military And Government. For 11 long years, Kay Griggs heard all the messy details from her military husband, usually while he was drinking before going into one of his drunken stupors..." (She first went public in 1998 in an eight hour video interview with a Michigan pastor and FM radio broadcaster, Rick Strawcutter.)

We've purchased the 8 hour raw, uncut interview with Kay and it is spellbinding. (My interest in her interview hits home directly with me as my dad was Navy Intel.)

IN THAT INTERVIEW, Kay mentions Psyops and the use of Psychiatrists/Psychologists in military control/intelligence. She states sexual perversion is something which is used to control the military forces high among the ranks and mentioned two psychological perversion groups who study this sort of control...one in Austria and ONE IN COLORADO.

When she mentioned Colorado, Strawcutter cut in and asked her about the Ramsey case. She did not respond in depth, but stated that the Ramseys (or at least one of them) was involved in this group in Colorado and that the Ramsey case was nothing more than a cover-up. She states that "the Ramseys were being protected."

Remember Johnny Gosch? He was a little boy who was kidnapped in Iowa in 1982. He was a paperboy and the one time his parents give him permission to go on his route by himself, he was kidnapped. Noreen Gosch, Johnny's mother, has written a great book about Johnny's kidnapping, called, "Why Johnny Can't Come Home."

What Noreen and her husband stumbled upon in trying to find their son, is the stuff 'made up in Hollywood' as they say. When the FBI wouldn't help them find their son and when the corrupt sherrif in their town wouldn't help (he was corrupt to the core and later forced to resign), Noreen was able to secure the services of ex-FBI agent Ted Gunderson. Noreen has her own website up and you can view the movie called, "Conspiracy of Silence," which dovetails the kidnapping of Johnny into a huge trafficking/pedophilia ring in this Country.

This movie was to be shown on the Discovery Channel, but various entities were paid off and the movie was pulled. This movie documents the level of corruption and pedophilia, which goes all the way to the White House (and beyond).

I think Stephen Singular is right on the money with this one, or at the minimum, he's closer to what may have happened to JonBenet than anyone else.

Kay Griggs is an absolute hero in my book; I believe she is telling the Truth about what she knows. Some of you may remember Sarah McClendon...she was the White House Press Corps Secretary...she was the little old red-haired, FEISTY journalist, who would sit in on all of the Presidents' Press Conferences and really give them heck. She took Kay Griggs in when Kay decided to 'come out' and speak the truth about what she knows about our military/government. Kay states that McClendon literally saved her life.

This just gets deeper and deeper. In reading what I've read so far about this guy Karr, I smell a big fat rat...when he makes the comment, "this was an accident..." well, I just think there are many more involved here, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. JMHO, of course...

 

[Kim Ii]

Forgot to mention a gal who was interviewed for a time by the Boulder police department regarding the Ramsey case and a pedophilia ring centered in Colorado. You can find that story somewhere on the Internet...Alex Hunter found her to be 'extremely' credible and wanted to delve more into her story. Singular mentions this in his interview and stated the Boulder Police Department didn't seem to want to delve further into this girl's story...the Ramseys 'wouldn't touch it.' That's puzzling, because if this girl's story checked out, much of what she said would have exonerated the Ramseys.

In reading Stephen Singular's interview, he mentions this girl and states he thinks there is something there. This girl mentioned a father of one of the Ramseys' friends, in one of her interviews. She spoke of this pedophilia ring in Colorado. This girl's psychologist, a gal in California, has stated on record that this girl's statements are true and she stands by her client's story. (Again, you can find this information by just doing a little digging on Google.)