Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #2

[lonetraveler]

John is so frustrating. I agree, why not do the right thing and just tell the damn truth already?? To go back on your own and pull out a baggie with bone fragments - how can he do this to Dave and the family.
If he would have just been truthful from the very beginning he may have had hope for some leniency. Not anymore though - too many lies.

That's simple. Because he is a druggie, slim ball. IMO he and Gabe went back on their own in order to extort more money for the remains.

Sent from my HTCD100LVWPP using Tapatalk

 

[lonetraveler]

That's simple. Because he is a druggie, slim ball. IMO he and Gabe went back on their own in order to extort more money for the remains.

Sent from my HTCD100LVWPP using Tapatalk

I meant slime ball [emoji9]

Sent from my HTCD100LVWPP using Tapatalk

 

[Tadpole12]

https://twitter.com/genverbrander10?lang=en

blips of Oxygen show
including JL confession

the part about the burning
[video=twitter;909734485226176514]https://twitter.com/Genverbrander10/status/909734485226176514[/video]

 

[italianangel2411]

Right, John said to TJ about the burning of the remains that he wished he kept something to give to the Holloways but there isn't anything like he said he let that slip though the cracks

 

[heavenly2012]

Gabriel explained it as there wasn't enough bones to extract much from. They couldn't get anything at all out of the split one.

 

[Tadpole12]

https://www.google.ca/search?tbs=sb...t1v1d6dccNV4NLQ&btnG=Search by image&hl=en-CA


photo of JL?

 

[Barb Wire]

He's lying never got a boat never put her in the water all lies

 

[Barb Wire]

Gabriel had a good talk with Dave Holloway today he doesn't want to get his hopes up until October 6 for now his going to lay low. He was very grateful for what Gabe has done.They had a nice talk. Gabe posted this on his page.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006046668726

 

[Smallfox]

I swear to goodness, John Lind and Gabriel remind me so much of John Mark Carr. The guy that put himself into the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Just seem like they are attention seeking. I tried watching one of Gabriel's videos and it was so ignorant I had to turn it off. Not only him, but all of the women that are chasing him.

Blech.....

 

[Tadpole12]

5)


FB LIVE
Gabriel Madrigal
Yesterday at 6:01pm
Sept 24 G FB

- 36:13
Paulus and JVS removed all of NH's
clothing earrings jewelry
and they burnt it in their house

********
-31:11
G: you know a wild goose chase
but I brung evidence
at the end
I brung evidence
It was not easy......
G: .....John went back in 2011
for one reason and one reason only guys
not to put the bones there
Something else....
but he went back for something and
I have the confession why, it's regarding Natalee....
...... I mean I have a lawyer, he tells me
what I can say
what I can not
He watches my videos
he calls me
'What? you crazy...'

-20: 14
Shelly says
Q: There were some of your original videos on youtube
Why were they taken down?
G: Uhm, my lawyer told me to take them down
and uhm I don't know why
He just told me to take them down
but once I get the okay
I'll put them back up

(G made (40 videos)
'John's crazy adventures',

he put the video -- of J eating crickets, maggots
hit with shovel in groin, jalapeno challenge,
dressed in pink tootoo
getting blasted by paint balls,
pepper sprayed J's eyeballs.
J ate dog poop
drank his own urine --
No one forced him
JL wanted to be the next Jack Ass)--on private)

 

[Tadpole12]

[video=youtube;2VVxXtdbeSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VVxXtdbeSc[/video]


TJW and DH guests on
True Crime M&M Podcasts
begins at @3:00


@6:09
Q: Can you guys tell us how you feel about JVS?
in general terms
DH: Well, I wouldn't be truthfull I told you
Ah, you know he, he's caused me a lot of grief
for me and my family and uh
He's got the answers
He knows the answers
I know for a fact that he knows exactly
what happened
Ah, he's trying to use that information
when he's released 21 years from now
when he's served that sentence for the murder
of another woman
He's going to try to use that information
to negotiate his next sentencing
in Birmingham Alabama
And it's like okay
do you do it now or do you do it later
Well, he's going to do it later
And I think we'll once again
get some answers
from JVS 21 years from now
But I'm not going to wait that long

@14:59 The Pond
TJW: Everyday was a new, ah
The pond that got
uhm, the pond got, started getting drained
So, I left the island, came back
said, Why's the pond got water in it?
They said, Oh, the pump broke
so we didn't do anymore
I was just Oh yeah
So these are the things,
some of the things we were fighting
And, uhm
[Everyday]
And, uhm, so there was a hurricane
that came through
shortly after that so
the pond became secondary
and so we moved on to something else

 

[Tadpole12]

I swear to goodness, John Lind and Gabriel remind me so much of John Mark Carr. The guy that put himself into the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Just seem like they are attention seeking. I tried watching one of Gabriel's videos and it was so ignorant I had to turn it off. Not only him, but all of the women that are chasing him.

Blech.....

Heyya smallfox
Yes.
Blech....


more than just a dysfunctional relationship between G & JL?

Like attracts like?

 

[Whiteorchids]

5)


FB LIVE
Gabriel Madrigal
Yesterday at 6:01pm
Sept 24 G FB

- 36:13
Paulus and JVS removed all of NH's
clothing earrings jewelry
and they burnt it in their house

********
-31:11
G: you know a wild goose chase
but I brung evidence
at the end
I brung evidence
It was not easy......
G: .....John went back in 2011
for one reason and one reason only guys
not to put the bones there
Something else....
but he went back for something and
I have the confession why, it's regarding Natalee....
...... I mean I have a lawyer, he tells me
what I can say
what I can not
He watches my videos
he calls me
'What? you crazy...'

-20: 14
Shelly says
Q: There were some of your original videos on youtube
Why were they taken down?
G: Uhm, my lawyer told me to take them down
and uhm I don't know why
He just told me to take them down
but once I get the okay
I'll put them back up

(G made (40 videos)
'John's crazy adventures',

he put the video -- of J eating crickets, maggots
hit with shovel in groin, jalapeno challenge,
dressed in pink tootoo
getting blasted by paint balls,
pepper sprayed J's eyeballs.
J ate dog poop
drank his own urine --
No one forced him
JL wanted to be the next Jack Ass)--on private)

I think this guy Gabe full of BS after watching his vids.

 

[Barb Wire]

To any of you think that Joran may have killed other girls? We all know he's drugged them,I wonder if any of them OD'd on the drug he gives them. I also wonder that in 2010 if John was involved in killing one of those girls with Jordan and that was the one that they buried..

 

[Tadpole12]

https://www.springfieldspringfield....rance-of-natalee-holloway-2017&episode=s01e06

The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway (2017) s01e06 Episode Script

The Bones

This pathway is exactly
where he told me he went.
Can a cadaver dog pick up a
human scent at that location?
Has to be. Just has to be.
He's picking up minute scent.
I think now is the time to
get the Arubans involved.
You know, I'm not gonna stop
until we finally get
justice for Natalee.
He's getting away. He's getting away.
He's in a taxi. He's getting away.
He's running like a bat out of hell.
Oh ****.
Could you believe he sat down
and interviewed with me?
Where'd you take the remains?
The idea was to crush
everything to the point
where it's not recognizable
as arm bones or skull
or anything like that,
and then by that night
it was disposed of.
If the Aruban authorities
want to know what happened,
are you gonna be honest with them
and tell them what happened
as you told me today?
Yes.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
I came to Tampa, Florida,
to meet with Gabriel to
discuss the next steps
and get a plan going on
what we're gonna do next.
This has been going on for 18 months.
John has indicated to Gabriel
that he's willing to pinpoint
the exact location and cooperate
with the Aruban authorities
in showing the exact location
and hopefully solving this case.
You're coming in to Aruba on Saturday,
and we want to make
arrangements to go out there
to where he's talking about
so he can show us
- Correct.
- Where it is.
Then I want us to go
to his aunt's house.
- Correct.
- And I want him to show us
- the spot behind his aunt's house.
- Correct.
And then where they
dismantled Natalee's body.
After we've gone this far,
I need to follow it through to the end.
You know, I know John's
lied a number of times,
but there's some things that he has said
that no one else would know.
If he is a fraud, I'm going
to expose him as a fraud.
Would he go walk into
the police department
if I t we took him there?
I promise you I'll have him there.
I said, "What would you do"
if Dave Holloway seen you face to face?"
He goes, "Well, he might
want to shoot me"
"and kill me for what I did,
but I didn't kill her."
Yeah, just make sure that he and I,
our paths don't cross
when we're down there.
I cannot let that happen.
Chief, I wanted to let
you know we just met
with our my informant
and, as I told you in my message,
that they're traveling
early Saturday morning,
and he wants to take us
out to the gravesite.
He's got Ludwig convinced
to turn himself in
to Aruban authorities and
give them a statement.
We have talked to Chief Richardson today
with the Aruban police
and got joint cooperation
with that to go forth
and to get the evidence and
do what we need to do.
All right, sounds good.
All right, thank you.
Bye.
Okay.
When we got back from Aruba last time,
you got in touch with John,
or he got in touch with you.
What happened?
When we got back, Gabriel just
Gabriel put all of his
stuff out of the house
and didn't want anything to do with him,
so they weren't speaking, but
he called me the next day
and then convinced John to
go to the FBI in Sarasota.
Oh, really? So what did
the FBI do with all that?
Well, the chain that the
process goes through,
they'll refer it to the
office that handles Aruba,
and they'll contact the
agents in our legal attaché
will contact the Arubans
and present it to them as
part of their investigation,
and it's up to the Arubans
to request assistance,
but there is a process
that has to be followed.
I don't know what what prompt him
I don't know if there's emotional stuff
going through his mind now,
but he's wanting to get all this out.
You know, he's coming down here
to set the record straight.
You know, is this another lie?
Who knows?
Yeah, he kind of reminds
me of Joran van der Sloot.
"Oh, I'm gonna tell the
truth this time." Lie.
"Oh, I'll tell the truth this time,"
and he's following that same pattern.
You know, I've been through
this so many times.
I have my reservations,
but between John knowing
the exact drop-off point
and the forensic expert
stating that his description
of the state of the body is accurate,
and this is something I need
to follow through to the end
for my own peace of mind.
What time they gonna be here? 11:37.
- 11:37.
- Yup.
What's gonna happen next?
Well, I asked him to
take me to the scene.
From there we're going
to his aunt's house
where they took the remains.
He knows there's a cadaver dog here?
He knows there's gonna be
one today, I told him.
That if he lies, then we're gonna know?
So the three of y'all
will be going out there?
All us three, and I've already
sent an email to the Chief this morning.
I'm a little unclear on
I mean, you've described it somewhat,
but can you give me more detail?
I'm hoping to figure out
just what happened there
at the aunt's house.
What did they do?
That's where they destroyed the body.
So they dug her up after five years
and then brought her
back to the back room?
And I don't mean being
disrespectful, Dave.
Took her back and opened the tarp up,
and van der Sloot beat the
back of the neck and the head.
Why don't I leave the room,
and you explain to her
in detail so I won't have to
listen to it again, okay?
- Sorry, Dave.
- Yeah.
- That's all right.
- Okay.
Yeah, it's tough.
He knows his daughter's dead,
but to hear about what
happened to her remains
and what they did to her afterwards,
no parent should have to hear that.
I don't need to hear all this
again and again and again,
you know?
If it's real, it's real.
If it's not, it's not.
You know, you hear something
bad happened with Natalee,
it's something you don't want
to think about the details,
but you just don't throw your hands up.
You know, you've got to check it out,
and we're still looking,
and we'll know before
we leave this island
whether or not we should
ever come back again,
especially on this lead.
I just texted the Chief of Police
and told him we'd meet him
at the church in Oran.
I hope John tells the truth and
takes us to the right spot
and by some chance there's
still DNA present.
John's scared as can be
he's gonna be arrested.
Gabriel said he had to chase him down,
and he they almost missed the flight.
I'll have to see what the Chief feels
about going in behind
his aunt's residence.
It's not on the not
on the aunt's property,
then we may be all right.
Oh, that's Tracy.
Let Eric and I get out of the car,
and you all just stay in the car.
We'll leave it running, okay?
Oh, boy.
- Hey, man.
- Hey, how you doing?
- Good, how are you?
- Fine, good, you?
- I'm T.J.
- I'm Fred.
- Good, nice to see you.
- Hi, how you doing?
Good to meet you. This is Tracy Sargent.
- Hi there.
- Hey, Fred.
That's the Chief.
How are you?
You know, I want I want to
get it out as much as you do.
Yes.
He's, yeah, filming me.
We're doing a documentary.
Is that okay?
So the police chief asked
to be no recordings or
anything like that.
No recording. I'm not sure
he was looking in the
car the whole time,
so I'm not sure if he knew we were there
or he just had a hunch that
we were both in the vehicle.
So essentially what happened was,
is we rode with T.J. and Eric,
went straight to the church
- Oh, church, okay.
- To meet with the Chief.
So the Chief was there. Tracy was there.
Then all of a sudden the
Chief of Police was like,
"Listen, is there anyone
rolling right now?"
and was like, "Listen, this is serious."
"Like, if you guys are
shooting anything right now,
we'll have you arrested,"
and that's basically
when everything kind of
was like, whoa, so we
Yeah, so we just turned off everything.
Tracy came around the car,
told us that we had to leave.
Well, I think they don't
want any filming going on
because of this current
investigation, you know?
It's they don't want
it out on the news,
and, you know, and I know what
happened in the past in 2005.
They're conditioned to
think that, you know,
a lot of s a lot of the news cameras
and the news media outlets,
some of them used some of
those videos against them.
Right after Natalee's
disappearance the news media
attacked the police investigation
on how they were trying
to investigate this.
With all the filming we've been doing
and the times we've been on the island,
I think they want to
quickly resolve this lead
as soon as possible
to keep media attention
away from the island.
We'll just see. Hopefully
we can just go back there.
Yeah.
You know, and get what we need to get.
Yeah, no, I got it.
This location that John is showing us
is in the same cul-de-sac that
we looked at two weeks ago.
You go with them.
The Police Chief asked me
to actually go up there
and with the perpetrator
and look at it myself
and see if it would be a location
that would be viable
for the dog to check.
Can you show me that location?
Yeah, this is the area.
She was in that crevice,
which it was a mound of
boulders right here.
And were you here in 2005, here?
2010 is when I was here.
Okay, so when you came back in 2010,
you came back here with van der Sloot.
What time of day was that?
Right before daybreak.
That's when, yeah, a
blue tarp was unearthed.
Anytime we have a perpetrator
come out to the scene
and we're able to actually
meet with them face to face,
talk with them, it really
does help out a lot
because maybe he might say
something or do something
that will help us in this case.
How how confident are you
that this is the right rock?
Oh, I'm 100%. I know it
was under that branch,
and there was that big rock
concealing most of the area.
Okay.
A ******** artist telling a ****ing lie.
Who carried her body up here in 2005?
Him and his dad.
He was told that Natalee's
body was carried
into this wooded area at night.
The location that he showed us
was much further
than a night trek would have been.
Even someone as small as
Natalee, that's dead weight.
It's very heavy to carry.

 

[Tadpole12]

Who came up here in 2010
to remove her remains?
Joran and I.
Did it take both of you to carry her out
or one person or
Well, John, I just want to assure you
I'm not trying to trick you at all.
I'm just trying to find the
answers like everybody.
Even though perpetrators do
horrible things to people,
you want to still project
an aura of respect
because oftentimes they will
be more receptive to that
and maybe touch a nerve that,
"Hey, maybe I should tell the truth
instead of playing all these games."
So John, what we're gonna do
next is go to that cave site
- Okay, that sounds good.
- That you described.
- Okay.
- So we'll go check there next.
Yes, sir?
No. No.
There's been no activity
there whatsoever.
- Hmm.
- Nope.
If he was involved,
is this just little bits
and pieces of truths,
or is it just a complete lie?
That is the big question mark here.
[PHONE RINGS]
Hello?
Hey, we're leaving the scene up here
- at the cul-de-sac.
- Okay.
After going out there with the Chief.
- Well, what happened?
- We went out there.
Even Tracy went out there with
him with the place he showed,
and it's impossible for him
to place a body there.
Now we're going to the aunt's house
where they claim that
they did other things,
and so we'll see what pans out here,
and then I'll let you know.
All right, bye.
Not good.
We've gone to the area
behind his aunt's house
where he said that they
burned Natalee's head
to get rid of the hair.
He said, "This is where
we destroyed the body."
Because it had grown up so much,
the perpetrator was a little confused
and just wasn't sure about the area.
[INDISTINCT]
Yeah, it's just
He described it cave-like.
It was flat, and it
came up a little bit,
and it had a large tree that
had a huge canopy over it,
and then on the other side
was a bowl-shaped type area.
This has to be it. It has to be.
How long was the fire burning, John?
About ten minu I'm
the hair burnt within seconds,
but he let it smolder
for about ten minutes.
John, what did you guys bring
to this location exactly?
Just a backpack, and he had
the skull in it and
Just only the skull?
No, he had a bottle of lighter fluid
and a bottle of water.
Okay.
The areas that we've gone to,
all of those areas were negative.
We did not find any physical evidence.
I think the fire pit was
under the tree ca
tree-looking cave type structure
and not an actual rock
overhang 'cause that's
the only thing in a decent
distance to the house.
I don't think it was way over there,
and I would have remembered
boulders that size.
I wouldn't have forgot that.
There were inconsistencies in the story,
and 'cause he noticed what he
was stating was not possible,
and then he changes his story,
"No, no, I wasn't there."
So it I mean, there
were so many holes
we could shoot in his story that it
we knew that he was not
really a credible witness.
I actually thought that we
were gonna find something.
I do believe that he
is telling the truth.
We can't prove it because there
is no physical evidence,
but did he do it?
I really honestly, honestly,
honestly, I do believe it.
Well, I took it after
we heard from you guys
that things didn't look good.
Well, we went out to the spot.
Did John and Gabriel go in there?
Oh, yeah. Well, the Chief came out
and said there's no way
that that's the spot.
Well, let me ask you all this.
Do you think this is a big con?
At this point, I don't know.
- What do you think, Eric?
- I think, John, in his mind
does he truly believe what he's saying?
Yeah. It kind of surprises me
that he goes this far with the police.
The conversation that John
had with the Police Chief,
"If you'll give me immunity,
I'll show you and tell you everything."
But why would you plead
immunity to show him that?
Is it for publicity or just
the thrill of being arrested
or to prove to Gabriel
that he was a part of it,
and, "I'm being truthful about it",
"so keep supporting me," you know?
It's just which one of
them do you want to believe?
It's not the outcome that
we were hoping for today.
I guess we're just gonna have
to pack our bags and go home.
You know, you just go home
and move on with life,
like we've tried to for
the last 12 years.
The lead was pursued to the end,
and it'll sting for a while
like it always does, but you know,
you prepare yourself for
that disappointment
over 12 years of disappointments.
We got our tickets,
and we're on our way.
This is the last time,
John, the very last time.
Oh, I know.
We're getting closer
and closer by the day.
- Yeah.
- Let's bring Natalee home.
I'm gonna get you.
Yeah.
You sure you went
you sure you went
- What is that?
- That's a bird, dude.
I know it's along this stretch.
I had some dirt thrown over it.
Maybe I will need the shovel.
This is kind of hard for me right now.
Yeah, I mean, I used to catch
snakes and **** like that,
****.
Yeah, but this is, um
And it just got
[PENSIVE MUSIC]
[PHONE LINE TRILLS]
This time John's story is,
is that after he and Joran
crushed up the bones,
they put them in a box
along with dog bones,
mixed them together,
and buried them in the pet cemetery.
John held back a few of the
pieces as a prize, so to speak.
John has told us a number of lies.
I don't know what to think.
I don't even want to go there
at this point in time,
because I don't know if I
can handle it anymore.
[INTENSE MUSIC]

 

[Tadpole12]

Mm-hmm.
[PHONE RINGS]
Oh, here it is.
Hello?
Right.
Okay.
So what about the other two?
You can't determine whether
they're human or not human
unless you do a DNA test on them,
and that's gonna take several weeks.
Yeah.
What are you all gonna do with
them after you test them?
'Cause I think T.J. wants to
take legal action against them.
Okay.
I still can't prove
beyond a reasonable doubt
that John isn't lying,
so I'm gonna go ahead and
search the pet cemetery,
obtain those bones and have them tested
to finally put this to rest.
- Hey, Dave Holloway.
- Hey, how are you doing?
Good. How are you? How was your trip?
Oh, just like everything else, long.
Well, I can't believe we're here again.
- Where we going?
- I thought we'd go ahead
and look at this pet cemetery,
kind of have an idea of
what we're talking about.
Wow.
Check this out.
- What the hell is that?
- Somebody dug out a hole.
- Tire tracks.
- Four-wheeler tracks.
That's interesting.
And they've dug a grave
or excavated a grave.
That's really, really weird.
And here's some potholes dug up here.
If somebody came out
here looking with a dog,
they would dig down in the ground
a little bit to aerate the soil,
and that's what they've
done on this mound.
That's kind of suspicious.
Why would somebody dig a hole here
and not put anything in it?
And then I got to noticing
some of the ground effects and potholes
and four-wheeler tracks
and where they led,
and there's always that
in the back in your mind,
the suspicion of doubt, you know?
What the heck is going on here?
I mean, what are the chances?
You have the suspicion that, you know,
the bones were not checked,
and that was very, very
bothersome for me,
is, you know, you put your
trust in them to, you know,
do at least a DNA test on them,
and then you come to find
out they didn't do a report
or anything on them,
and then you walk up on that, a
fresh hole dug in the ground.
Richardson and the police team,
may have decided that
they would go ahead
and search that pet cemetery,
is what I'm thinking.
- Think they dug something up?
- I don't know.
That's a good question.
But it's awful suspicious to me.
We're going to meet with.
Chief Richardson and his team
to discuss the bones that were
turned in to him by Gabriel
several weeks ago.
They had indicated they were non-human.
Even though the Arubans
seem willing to help,
I've always had my doubts about them
because of their past track record,
so, you know, it was something
that we wanted to do
just you know, just erase that doubt.
What are you thinking?
I was just thinking about the bones.
Now that they have the
bones, why did they
why didn't they take them in for that?
I mean, I don't know.
How's he gonna know
what they're talking about
if he hasn't sat them down?
All's he's gotten is what we told him.
I just think they're afraid
to take two Americans
in custody right now
'cause it's gonna be all over the news.
I guess where we want to back up first
is when John and Gabriel, my informant,
showed up here without us knowing it.
I was real surprised that
you didn't bring them in
and sit them down and question them.
You base your investigation
on leads that are credible
or it just will be a waste
of manpower and resources.
We have a guy coming in saying,
"I was involved with Natalee Holloway.
I know "maybe he hasn't
taken us to the right place",
but the mere fact he's
claiming he had a relationship
with Joran van der Sloot in 2010.
We've confirmed he was here.
Even if he did help, what
we need is evidence.
He said, "These are the
bones of Natalee."
He presented us that, and it was bogus.
It I mean, it's not even human bone,
so for me it's John Ludwig is
he's not a credible source.
Now, what about the bones?
They all came out to be animal bones.
What kind of animal was it? Do you know?
Just animal bones.
- Okay.
- Not human bones.
Is there any reports or
anything you can give us
about the bones?
No, you're not law enforcement.
We don't just give reports
out to third party.
Can we can we look
at them, the bones?
We've got to get any question of doubt.
Can we get them the bones?
Can we get that?
- [INDISTINCT]
- Yeah?
- [INDISTINCT].
- Okay.
This is what was handed to us.
The Aruban police are saying
these bones are animal bones,
but they haven't had
those bones long enough
to have them properly tested,
so, you know, I have my doubts,
and I think what I will do is
have the bones tested myself
to make sure that they are nonhuman
or exactly what they are.
Look, if John Ludwig did
hand over evidence to us
and that happened to be human bones,
he would have been
arrested, believe you me.
Okay.
We will send an army to pick him up.
Just to be clear on that.
He's not my concern.
Natalee is my concern.
Did you all go out to the pet cemetery?
Yes, we set up an surveillance,
and we looked at the whole charade.
He had no idea where he was.
He was moving up and down.
He couldn't pinpoint
- He couldn't pinpoint
- A specific site.
Yeah.
We went out there yesterday, and we
I walked it,
and I got to the very
end near the cliffs,
and I noticed a big hole dug out.
You know, if somebody digs a hole,
they're gonna put the
dog in it right then.
Judging from the size of that hole,
that is something else.
That's not for a dog.
Yeah, it's fresh, too.
You see the tire tracks.
I didn't want to say that,
but that more looks like
a drug smuggling action, yeah.
What concerned me was how
quickly they gave a response.
The response immediately from
them was it was where drugs
were buried on the beach,
covered back up, and
then dug back out again,
and I know that there might
not be anything to it,
but it's really
coincidental that you find
an uncovered dug-out grave
at the pet cemetery.
We're going to solve this
case one of these days.
Because it's an ongoing investigation,
we're not we cannot
reveal everything,
but let's put it like this.
We obtain a lot of information
and have a lot of information,
and we didn't give up.
What are your plans with the bones?
I know you and I talked about us
taking and having those bones analyzed.
We didn't have no problem with that.
Just we're trying to
safeguard your case.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- Yeah.
But if you're not going to
press any charges, you can
I will gladly give
hand you the bones.
You'll take care of that.
If I retrieved those bones,
I was told by the Aruban authorities
I could not use those in
a criminal investigation
or a fraud charge against John
because T.J. and I are
not law enforcement.
But that was not really my
concern at that point in time
because how did you determine
they were nonhuman?
I need to know, and I never
got a clear answer on that.
So I hand it over,
which means you cannot use it
in court anymore, yeah, okay.
You know, I thought, well, they're
they probably are nonhuman.
They probably are animal bones,
but he's created a little bit
of a doubt now that in my mind
I don't believe him, and so we got them
and I've got the bones.
Now I can have them tested.
I'm gonna move forward until
we know for sure, 100%.
Yeah, we're outside of Washington, D.C.,
and we're going to Dr.
Jason Kolowski's office
and hopefully get some good results
about the bones that
were found in Aruba.
I'll be honest with you, I
don't have my hopes up high.
- We'll see.

 

[Tadpole12]

- Oh, I know you don't.
- Ready?
- Yeah, let's go.
- T.J.
- Hey, Jason.
- Good to see you again.
- Good to see you.
- How you doing?
- Good. How are you?
- Good. Please have a seat.
- Hey Jason, how are you doing?
- Hi, Jason Kolowski.
- Hey, Jason, Dave Holloway.
- Nice to meet you, sir.
- Welcome.
Well, as you know, we
received some bone samples.
T.J. recovered them from
the Aruban authorities,
and he sent them to me,
and I've arranged some
testing for those samples
to be done at the laboratory
here in Virginia,
which is why we called you up today.
As you know, we received
these four bone samples.
All four of these bone samples
went to the laboratory.
They were cleaned. They were weighed.
They weighed about 2.5 grams,
which was well within the
range for that laboratory
to test these bone samples.
They ground these samples
down to a fine powder,
and then they carried out a
chemical extraction process
to see if they could remove any DNA
from these biological bone samples.
When we attempted to
measure the nuclear DNA,
the actual DNA that makes
us us, that was negative.
These samples didn't
have any nuclear DNA.
It was retested again
and still negative.
At that point we made
an executive decision
to move on to try some
mitochondrial DNA testing.
Are you familiar with mitochondrial DNA?
- No.
- All right,
mitochondrial DNA is really,
really unique stuff.
It's inherited maternally,
so it's passed from mother to daughters
and from daughters to sons,
but sons never pass it
on past that point.
So we decided to take a look
at some of these mitochondria
that were within the bone samples.
When we actually took the DNA extract
and ran it through this
screening process,
it came back positive.
It came back human.
- You got to be kidding me.
- No, I'm not.
Unbelievable.
When we actually took
the DNA extract
and ran it through this
screening process,
it came back positive.
It came back human.
- You got to be kidding me.
- No, I'm not.
You say those are human bones.
There is human DNA in
these bone samples, yes.
As to which one of the four
is human or all of them,
that's where some additional testing
is gonna need to be done.
So these are human bones, or human DNA.
There's human mitochondrial
DNA in these bones.
And that, I think, is
fairly significant.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting this.
And there's even a more
interesting aspect here.
So the test we ran right
now is designed to screen
in a very broad way,
just look to see if there's
any human mitochondria there,
but it's really interesting
because not only does it align perfectly
to our standard reference
sequence that we use in mito,
there are no differences
to the reference sequence.
The reference sequence
was actually built
on a European Caucasian DNA sequence.
[WHISTLES]
The fact here is that that's
the that's the ancestry
that we're questioning.
[WHISTLES]
[EXHALES] Yeah, you
caught me by surprise.
Golly.
I never expected this.
All of these dominos are
tipping over the right way,
telling us that we need
to proceed forward
with some testing.
There's a possibility, though,
that this could be somebody else.
There is.
Let me take a few minutes
to digest all this stuff.
I understand.
Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
I ain't believing this.
- Huh?
- I ain't believing this, T.J.
I wasn't ready for this. This is huge.
Yeah, it still could not be
it could be somebody else's,
and sheesh.
I'm shocked.
I'd I expected to come
here and hear the same thing
that I heard from Dolfi
and that they were
nonhuman and animal bones,
and I fully expected that, you know,
John planted those bones,
and
and then I even now,
right now I'm thinking,
"Okay, but they're
somebody else's bones."
Sheesh. I am not believing this.
Those dirty bunch in Aruba.
Well, we know that. We
knew that since '05.
When the Prime Minister
made that statement,
it got back to me that they can't
afford to find the body
a dead body on this island,
and they've done every damn thing
they could do to cover this up.
Well, the plan's over now.
And then I started getting a little
pissed off, I guess,
and I see all these things
that you didn't see
from the very beginning that
you see when you look back.
You know, I can't think of all of them,
but the list goes on,
and now
several people need to be concerned.
Um
I'd rather not say at
this point in time.
You probably know what
I'm talking about.
What do we need to do?
A simple oral swab from Beth
could be submitted to the laboratory,
and they will just use it
as a reference sample.
- Okay.
- We have a potential
to now test these
this bone sequence,
the mitochondrial DNA sequence
against Natalee's mother
and perhaps even make a match there.
There's still avenues
in which this testing
is going to yield a result
that may not be Natalee,
but there's definitely pointers
in the direction right now
that tell us that there is a
possibility it could be her,
so we should do this testing.
We absolutely should
test these bone samples
and find out the truth.
Now the big decision
does have to be made
'cause unfortunately,
the remaining testing will
consume the remaining samples.
- Yeah, that's fine.
- Okay.
As soon as I have that information,
you'll have those reports.
- Thank you.
- You're very welcome.
- Well
- Yeah.
- Thank you very much.
- No problem.
- I appreciate it.
- Mr. Holloway, pleasure.
- Thank you very much. Yeah.
- Good luck. Nice to meet you.
T.J., always. Okay.
- Thanks, man.
- Thanks, Jason.
[TENSE MUSIC]
I'm not gonna believe it until
the final test is done.
I can't believe this.
Mm.
And I'll be on pins and
needles until that test
is determined one way
or the other, I'm sure.
Now, as you're well aware,
Beth submitted a DNA swab
for comparative testing.
This is a graphic representation
of the sequencing work that
we did on Beth's sample,
and so what we're looking at here
is the comparison of Beth's
profile against the profile
that we already had from
the combined bones.
- Okay.
- As of right now,
we have the results of that sample.
We were expecting one of three outcomes.
That there would be a match,
that there would be some
level of inconclusiveness,
or that there would be a full exclusion.
We're not seeing the match,
but I am not prepared to call
this a full exclusion yet,
and I need to explain to you why.
I don't feel right now against
just this combined bone
profile that it's a match.
Comfortably, this is still inconclusive
because there could be
these underlying profiles
from the one of the other bones
that we're just not seeing come through.
The combined bone sample
sequence is not a match
to Beth Holloway's mitochondrial DNA.
And in your reports you'll see
we cut each of those bones
in half, as we had discussed.
We sent the halves of
each of the four bones
to a laboratory,
and then they combined those together.
So by combining all
four samples together,
you would expect there to be an
equal amount of contribution
from all four bones,
but we do also know
that some of the bones
were slightly bigger
than the other ones.
Those differences right
there might have been
contributing different amounts
of mitochondrial DNA into the sample.
By testing those bones now individually,
we'll know for sure.
We can make the assumption
that at least one of those
samples that was turned
over to us is not Natalee.
If one of them comes
forward and comes through
in the testing and shows to be her,
then it's Natalee and
an unknown individual,
and that's really not likely.
But this profile right here,
it's not a match to Beth.
It's somebody else.
So we're not at a total
loss in the investigation.
We know it's somebody human.
One of these bones is definitely human.
- We know that.
- Okay.
And if not three, four of the bones.
You know, they all could be.
We just have to have a couple
more pieces of information,
and then I can give you
the truth of the matter.
How does that how
long does that take?
Right now phyto-mito testing
on those four bones
is scheduled to be done October 6th.
This laboratory is working as fast
as they humanly can to get
these bone samples done.
- Well, there's a process.
- There's a process.
I know it's slow,
and I know it seems like
it's being dragged out,
but at the end of the
day it's being done
the best way it possibly can.
Should the results yield anything,
anything that can help us out,
you're going to have a
rock-solid, airtight database
to be able to move forward with.
Okay.
Coming in today, I was
middle of the road,
prepared that it's not and
reluctant that they were
because I want to see a DNA sample.
All right, Jason, appreciate it.
But there's a slight chance,
I'd say slim chance that they are,
but like I said,
I've got to see a string
of DNA that matches,
and until I see that,
you're just not gonna
get your hopes up high.
Hey, Robin, you want to look at this
these reports?
Yeah. You finally got them in, huh?
Yep.
This is Jason's report on the DNA.
I'm sure Aruba would like
to have a copy of that
to put it in their trash can.
They're human bones,
and they're from either
Natalee or somebody else,
and basically, it's inconclusive.
So he wouldn't he wouldn't know
until October the 6th that
until they see DNA on each
each individual bone,
so that's where they're at now, so
So more waiting, huh?

 

[Tadpole12]

[GENTLE MUSIC]
I know we'll meet her again one day,
and we'll know the truth.
It's been 12 years,
and our life has been put on hold,
and it's time to get our life back.
What if it's not Natalee?
Well, if it's not Natalee,
it's somebody else,
and I think that and
I've said this before,
John has so had somebody's
bones on that island,
and either the Aruban police or
the FBI's got to get involved.
I mean, something's got to give.
I mean, you just can't
just have human remains
and no one do anything.
I mean, I'm I wish I could do more,
but I mean, one of those two agencies
has got to get in got to get involved
or either the Dutch have got to
get control of the situation.
Somebody's got to investigate it.
There very well could be
another family out there
that is missing a loved one
whose bones that those belong to.
It's very, very important for
somebody to do an investigation
to get down to the bottom
of how did you come up
with these human remains,
and whose are they?
They're gonna have to man up
and they're gonna have to
If it's not her, are you going to stop?
What do you mean stop?
- Just stop.
- Stop what?
Looking for Natalee?
I think our I think
this is probably
um
probably the end.
I mean, we've searched
all of the island.
We've just about had every
lead that's possible.
I don't know that there's anything else
we can physically do.
You know, you'd like to get
finally get justice,
but unfortunately, it may not happen.
I guess from Natalee's perspective,
she'd probably say,
"Yeah, you done enough."
You know, a lot of people
say, "Well, you just need"
to forget about it and move on."
Well, you can't do that. I can't do it.
I just can't.
So October the 6th we'll know for sure.
We'll just have to wait and see, so
"Disappearance of Natalee Holloway,"

 

[Barb Wire]

First Thank You Tadpole12 your amazing
<Snip from above>
We can make the assumption
that at least one of those
samples that was turned
over to us is not Natalee.
If one of them comes
forward and comes through
in the testing and shows to be her,
then it's Natalee and
an unknown individual,
and that's really not likely.
But this profile right here,
it's not a match to Beth.
It's somebody else.
So we're not at a total
loss in the investigation.
We know it's somebody human.
One of these bones is definitely human.
- We know that.
- Okay.
And if not three, four of the bones.
You know, they all could be.
We just have to have a couple
more pieces of information,
and then I can give you
the truth of the matter.
How does that how
long does that take?
Right now phyto-mito testing
on those four bones
is scheduled to be done October 6th.
Who else did they kill? or put in that bag


I wonder if it was human but just not Natalee's bone?