ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #10

[neesaki]

Actually, that article wasn't about RG, or GG for that matter, it was all RF. None of what he was claiming was actually verified (which you would have thought would be simple to do if t were true).

Whether GG is a nice guy or not is irrelevant, fact is there is no evidence that he did anything to RG.

Actually, character does matter, and character is always relevant. I think they're even trying to teach that in some of the schools these days.

So you're saying the fact is that someone else besides GG was with Robyn when she disappeared ? Believe me, I'm not saying that's impossible, so if you know something, please tell. TIA

 

[neesaki]

I agree with you about the white Hyundai Getz rental that they cannot locate as Aruba just isn't very big and I have a hard time believing they could not locate who rented this car. It could of been a huge break in the case because the Amigoe newspaper reported the car was seen driving around for 45 minutes in the area and the time stamp on video was just minutes before Giordano arrived and according to Diario newspaper he arrived twice(the first time 10 minutes earlier). We will probably never know if the driver of this vehicle was a accomplice or if they had witnessed anything. I would imagine they did since the cafe and dive shop closed at 4PM and by that time there were few people in the area. Too bad no one asked Giordano in the interviews why he was suprised everyone had left since he was there the day before at about the same time and would know everything had closed.

You also have Taco Stein flatly denying there was any blood evidence on national TV but we know now that wasn't true at all. The news this week is Mr.Stein has just taken the same position on another island St.Maarten.

This business with the Hyundai Getz is troublesome. Accomplice? Witness? Must be one or the other, imo.

And why would Taco Stein deny there was blood evidence, but now we know there was. :waitasec:

 

[neesaki]

There was that fisherman(Silva)who gave a detailed story about seeing Giordano and Robyn drive off,claiming they were driving the wrong way which caught his attention. During his interview with american media he said the police had not even questioned him yet..Nothing more was said about this possible witness except from Christina Jones who was Robyn roommate. She wrote on FB after returning from Aruba that the ALE told her that the witness got his dates mixed up and he was totally debunked as a witness. Christina strangely also declared her friend dead and announced she was giving Robyns belongings to a battered womans shelter.

This is really troublesome also. I saw the interview with Silva. He seemed very sure, very sincere and quite believable. But then it wouldn't be the first time that LE bungled a case, there are countless examples everywhere, here in the states as well. The question is, did they bungle the case because they are inept, or are they simply choosing to ignore this witness.

 

[Dushi]

Not sure any young people know it's the "new Carlos and Charlies". And the one by the high rise is really low key, I mean really. As I said it's all open and very small so they can't really do some of the types of things they did at Carlos because there are people walking around with small children. You are literally right off the sidewalk sitting at tables with umbrellas with the bar behind the tables. Plus this place is more geared to families as are most of the restaurants along that strip. Downtown may be a little wilder but I rarely see anyone going in there. I don't know how they stay open.

Also Aruba attracts a lot of honeymooners. So what you see most of all are young couples. It's not usual to see a group of girls traveling together without male companions. jmo

I agree that it is a family place early in the evening , but judging from some of the Youtubes, IMO, its a party place late at night

Its just around the corner from many bars that start out as dining spots early in the evening and transform into party places as the night goes on

Young people who travel to Aruba with their families know where to party at night

At Xmas when i am there , its full of families, many with teenagers who all seem to find each other

I also go during spring , several times on spring holidays and there are many young people vacationing together

If the young people aren't going to Senor Frogs, its someplace else, different name , same concept JMO

 

[LambChop]

I agree that it is a family place early in the evening , but judging from some of the Youtubes, IMO, its a party place late at night

Its just around the corner from many bars that start out as dining spots early in the evening and transform into party places as the night goes on

Young people who travel to Aruba with their families know where to party at night

At Xmas when i am there , its full of families, many with teenagers who all seem to find each other

I also go during spring , several times on spring holidays and there are many young people vacationing together

If the young people aren't going to Senor Frogs, its someplace else, different name , same concept JMO

And there are plenty of places to party up in that area. Downtown at night lately has less and less people. It's as if they close the sidewalks at 6pm now. Everyone heads for the high rise area.

 

[LambChop]

This is really troublesome also. I saw the interview with Silva. He seemed very sure, very sincere and quite believable. But then it wouldn't be the first time that LE bungled a case, there are countless examples everywhere, here in the states as well. The question is, did they bungle the case because they are inept, or are they simply choosing to ignore this witness.

I don't think it's even clear that Mr. Silva made himself known to LE prior to him being interviewed by GMA. And we don't know that LE did not interview him afterward his report to GMA. The night of the incident it was thought to be a drowning so it is highly unlikely LE was looking for witnesses other than did you see anyone in the water and if they said no LE moved on to the next person. After GG became a suspect those witnesses became important and if no one had gotten Mr. Silva's name he could have fallen through the cracks. But initially LE was looking at an accidential drowning and searched for two days under that belief.

And I'm not sure but wasn't T. Stein referring to blood evidence that was reported as a handprint on a rock when all they found was her blood on the towel? jmo

 

[LambChop]

Actually, that article wasn't about RG, or GG for that matter, it was all RF. None of what he was claiming was actually verified (which you would have thought would be simple to do if t were true).

Whether GG is a nice guy or not is irrelevant, fact is there is no evidence that he did anything to RG.

I think the evidence is in the inconsistencies with his story and what were the actual facts involving the environment, the fact that no body was found in a relatively calm sea close enough to the shoreline that the body would have come into shore not have gone out to sea. His story does not match the facts nor witness statements.

There is enough to charge him if he committed the crime in the US. But the only way the US can charge him is if they find evidence that he planned this prior to his leaving the states. Too many coincidential scenarios to be believed as actually happening the way he claims. Also incidents in the past of abuse make him suspect. Does not mean he planned it to happen but something happened that does not go along with his version of an accidential drowning. jmo

 

[Dushi]

And there are plenty of places to party up in that area. Downtown at night lately has less and less people. It's as if they close the sidewalks at 6pm now. Everyone heads for the high rise area.

Yes i think everyone does head up to Palm beach
Cruise people may use downtown

They closed Chez Mathilde:maddening:

 

[LambChop]

Yes i think everyone does head up to Palm beach
Cruise people may use downtown

They closed Chez Mathilde:maddening:

NO WAY. What happened??? They were always so busy???

ETA: Oh, I read that the wrong way.....whewwww. I read it as El Gaucho. LOL I was having a panic attack. Yes. I believe it was closed when I was there. Once they changed their menu I think they lost the business. Plus the last meal I had there (Pepper Steak) my favorite, I sent back three times and finally asked them to take if off my bill. My friends were on their desserts. Three times it was overcooked. So I could see them having to close down with a chef like that. lol

 

[Tugela]

Actually, character does matter, and character is always relevant. I think they're even trying to teach that in some of the schools these days.

So you're saying the fact is that someone else besides GG was with Robyn when she disappeared ? Believe me, I'm not saying that's impossible, so if you know something, please tell. TIA

No one was with them, not sure why you would think that, but because she dissappeared doesn't mean that there was wrongdoing on his part. She could simply have been washed out to sea, it happens. GGs character is not relevant unless you can show that that character was directly responsible for her disappearance, and you can't do that.

 

[Tugela]

I think the evidence is in the inconsistencies with his story and what were the actual facts involving the environment, the fact that no body was found in a relatively calm sea close enough to the shoreline that the body would have come into shore not have gone out to sea. His story does not match the facts nor witness statements.

As far as I can tell his story does match the facts, such as they are known. If there was a major discrepancy they would have charged him, the fact that they didn't charge him was an implicit admission that the story was plausible, irrespective of all the media stories.

If there was certainty that the body would be washed up and would be found, then he would be charged. But the truth is that it would "probably" do those things but just as easily not do those things. Looking at the prevailing winds and currents in that area it is obvious that is a real possibility. And just FYI, a flat sea means a sustained off shore wind. Calm conditions on the water are more likely to take a body out to sea than onto shore, and once it gets into the local currents it could end up anywhere in central america.

Most of the so called "witness statements" that have been trotted out by the media appear to have been news to LE as well, so most (and likely all) should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[neesaki]

I wonder what, if anything, the FBI and/or ALE have found on GG's computers.

Considering his past criminal history and sociopathic behavior in general, it would not surprise me in the least if he had gotten involved with the wrong people and had a bad debt he was being required to repay. Was Robyn the payment for his debt? OMG, he's just such a loser.

 

[LambChop]

As far as I can tell his story does match the facts, such as they are known. If there was a major discrepancy they would have charged him, the fact that they didn't charge him was an implicit admission that the story was plausible, irrespective of all the media stories.

If there was certainty that the body would be washed up and would be found, then he would be charged. But the truth is that it would "probably" do those things but just as easily not do those things. Looking at the prevailing winds and currents in that area it is obvious that is a real possibility. And just FYI, a flat sea means a sustained off shore wind. Calm conditions on the water are more likely to take a body out to sea than onto shore, and once it gets into the local currents it could end up anywhere in central america.

Most of the so called "witness statements" that have been trotted out by the media appear to have been news to LE as well, so most (and likely all) should be taken with a grain of salt.

So you believe all these witnesses were lying? To what end. There was no reason for them to lie, there was no $1.5M policy waiting in the wings to pay them off. No big pay day from GMA. Most of the witnesses were not trotted out by the media but gave statements to LE and were not interviewed other than by the officials. I think they all, everyone of the witnesses agreed on one thing that RG and GG got into the car and left the area after a short walk along the jetty when GG claims he never left. That is a big inconsistency.

Also I do think the those officials who live on the island are very much aware of the currents, what they do on a normal basis and what the chances were that her body went out to sea. I'm sure it did go out but not in that location. Officials agree the body should have been there because GG pinpointed the very area were they were supposed to have been snorkeling. She was not on a boat or a ship and fell overboard and they had to search miles and miles of ocean for her. She was only a short distance from the shoreline according to GG. Her body should have been there. Also there are a lot of rocks (big ones) in that water. Even if her body drifted or moved at some point she would hit rocks which would slow down any movement for sure. Then there is a fact that the body surfaces from gases if not secured and Aruba claims they did a vast search for her body. Truly the officials in Aruba know about their waters and what they should have found based on what happens normally.

The reason he was not charged is because they know she did not drown there. But what happened to her? Unless they have a body or some other proof she is dead RG could be still alive somewhere so Aruba will not charge him until they are sure what the crime is. He still remains a suspect in her disappearance.

FYI her body would never end up in Central America because they were on the Southwestern most portion of the island which faces Venezula. If she had disappeared off the eastern coastal area her body could have been drug out into the open sea, which seems to be a likelihood. In order for her remains to end up in Central America she would have had to have drowned up by the high rise hotels or the lighthouse, which is at the Northwestern portion of the island. Also the only drownings not found were out at sea. The bodies of those who have drowned offshore are found shortly after they have gone missing in all cases.

Just seems like all the coinky dinks are really working for this man. jmo

 

[Sapphire]

Bottom line, Giordano was well aware there would be no case without a body.

 

[neesaki]

As far as I can tell his story does match the facts, such as they are known. If there was a major discrepancy they would have charged him, the fact that they didn't charge him was an implicit admission that the story was plausible, irrespective of all the media stories.

His story matches the facts? That GG took Robyn "snorkeling" when she was, according to GG, under the influence of sleeping pills and vodka? That he took Robyn "snorkeling" when it was close to sundown? That he took Robyn "snorkeling" in an area that was not a recommended snorkeling area?

And all of this, after GG made a visit to the dive shop, and did not bother to ask their advice on where to go "snorkeling". And, after he did not secure appropriate snorkeling gear for Robyn.

Strange too, don't you think, that GG claims in one of the interviews that he had flippers but Robyn did not have flippers. Why do you think that is? And how do you explain that even though GG claims he had flippers, he did not wear them, strangely choosing instead, to wear heavy leather athletic shoes to snorkel in? Sounds rather convenient don't you think, that he could then claim that those shoes he chose to wear "weighed him down" to the point that he had to come to shore and leave Robyn to drown?

How do you explain, btw, that he didn't rush to shore, remove his shoes, then return to save Robyn ? Oh, that's right, the water was so rough he had to "save himself", or was it his shoes???

What does all of this add up to? Very convenient, that's what, for someone who wants to make sure that their partner drowns.

Most of the so called "witness statements" that have been trotted out by the media appear to have been news to LE as well, so most (and likely all) should be taken with a grain of salt.

News to LE? I'll say. They believed at first that it was an accidental drowning, until they started getting statements from witnesses and found out differently. That is definitely news.

The facts are, that no witnesses saw them go in the water. The only witnesses claimed that they saw them leave and not go in the water.
No witnesses said that GG seemed frantic or worried or concerned, or that he was trying to really find her. To the contrary.

The only witnesses, and there were a couple despite you wanting to admit as much, saw them drive away without getting in the water, and didn't see them return after they drove away. Which tells me, that GG arrived back at that point, just long enough to throw Robyn's things out on the d*** rocks and "run" up to the restaurant while going at the pace of something out of the Night of the Living Dead to "get help".

The fact that they didn't charge him is an admission that the story is plausible? There were major discrepancies which is why he was arrested and imprisoned for four months. His story must not have seemed plausible to LE or they wouldn't have been able to hold him.

And most of the witness statements are just that, they are witnesses to the events that happened that day, they are people who gave statements to ALE. Whether ALE took the statements that same day or 2,3,4, or 5 days later is irrelevant. Just because what they say discredits GG, and just because you don't like it, doesn't mean they aren't reliable witnesses.

If there was certainty that the body would be washed up and would be found, then he would be charged. But the truth is that it would "probably" do those things but just as easily not do those things. Looking at the prevailing winds and currents in that area it is obvious that is a real possibility. And just FYI, a flat sea means a sustained off shore wind. Calm conditions on the water are more likely to take a body out to sea than onto shore, and once it gets into the local currents it could end up anywhere in central america.

And this? With all due respect, it sounds so much like Baez BS I won't even go there. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I had not seen this article, and had never heard that ALE had actually considered the kidnapping angle as a possibility.

"Without yet recovering a body, "kidnapping has crossed our mind as a working hypothesis, but there's no way we could corroborate that, so that working hypothesis has been dropped," he said."

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2498095

 

[thumbtack]

Lambchop, do you think you could change your travel plans & go to Aruba now to solve this case? I don't think this is too much to ask. No pressure here. TIA

 

[LambChop]

Lambchop, do you think you could change your travel plans & go to Aruba now to solve this case? I don't think this is too much to ask. No pressure here. TIA

LOL. I am going but I doubt I can solve this case. It is strange though things seem to happen while I'm down there. I was there when OJ's famous white Bronco chase too place. I remember watching it. jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I think the evidence is in the inconsistencies with his story and what were the actual facts involving the environment, the fact that no body was found in a relatively calm sea close enough to the shoreline that the body would have come into shore not have gone out to sea. His story does not match the facts nor witness statements.

There is enough to charge him if he committed the crime in the US. But the only way the US can charge him is if they find evidence that he planned this prior to his leaving the states. Too many coincidential scenarios to be believed as actually happening the way he claims. Also incidents in the past of abuse make him suspect. Does not mean he planned it to happen but something happened that does not go along with his version of an accidential drowning. jmo

The fact no body was found might be because ALE were not able to search until Aug 3, at the earliest, some 12 hours later. We do not know as fact if a full out search was started Tues nite, Aug 2nd. That time is pretty important, because a lot of things could cause a body not to be found in the original spot 12 hours later.

GG may have had incidents of abusive behavior (never charged), but there is no evidence by anyone who saw the couple he was abusive to RG. To the contrary it was said they "looked like they were into each other"

Does this post mean it is up to the U.S. to charge him now. I don't believe even with the inconsistencies, witness statements, and abusive past ALE has enough to charge him. Don't get me wrong if he killed Robyn I sincerely hope they find something in the U.S. or Aruba to charge him. At this time it does not look like that has happened, though.

 

[LambChop]

The fact no body was found might be because ALE were not able to search until Aug 3, at the earliest, some 12 hours later. We do not know as fact if a full out search was started Tues nite, Aug 2nd. That time is pretty important, because a lot of things could cause a body not to be found in the original spot 12 hours later.

GG may have had incidents of abusive behavior (never charged), but there is no evidence by anyone who saw the couple he was abusive to RG. To the contrary it was said they "looked like they were into each other"

Does this post mean it is up to the U.S. to charge him now. I don't believe even with the inconsistencies, witness statements, and abusive past ALE has enough to charge him. Don't get me wrong if he killed Robyn I sincerely hope they find something in the U.S. or Aruba to charge him. At this time it does not look like that has happened, though.

The Arubans are on record as searching. They also are on record stating that the body, if it were indeed where he said she disappeared should have been there. I think they would know better than anyone whether or not the body could have been swept out to sea under the conditions at the time. It has been reported that the body should have still been in that general area because the currents would be moving her into shore, not out to sea. In one of the earlier threads there was a video taken in the water at that location and you can see there is no strong current pulling anything floating in the water out. If you were to go out a little farther where the water is really deep the conditions might change but this was pretty close to shore. As in all other cases where people have drowned the body comes in, not out or floats to the surface and is recovered quickly. Her body just vanished without a trace.

If there was a crime the US cannot charge him in this country unless they can prove he pre-planned the crime before leaving. This is why they are doing the computer search. Had this happened in the US it's been reported and it is believed by GMA that there is enough probable cause to charge him with her death.

I'm curious as to who made the statement that they looked like they were into each other when that certainly isn't evidenced by the videos and pictures we have seen.

Also his history of abuse has been well documented. They don't need an arrest record for them to consider his past behavior. jmo