ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 4

[wfgodot]

There were nothing but wild goose chases reported in the disappearance of Ms Holloway ... like the dead donkey carcass that was posted all over the news as a valid lead, or the abandoned building. The media seemed to be running in circles throughout the investigation ... skulls on the beach, possible bodies in shallow waters near sunken ships ... never-ending unverified information.

Then they should at least know who to avoid, this time through.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

There were nothing but wild goose chases reported in the disappearance of Ms Holloway ... like the dead donkey carcass that was posted all over the news as a valid lead, or the abandoned building. The media seemed to be running in circles throughout the investigation ... skulls on the beach, possible bodies in shallow waters near sunken ships ... never-ending unverified information.

Interesting point. I went back and looked for info on the reporting of NH. Here is an article from one reporter about it:

A Media Circus in Paradise

An Alabama reporter discovers the press doesn’t quite shine in the Caribbean sun.
...
In fact, looking at it from the Arubans' perspective, I'm a little confused about what we do. Most of the job seems to consist of waiting around in hotel lobbies and seeing who can shout the loudest at news conferences.

There were certainly plenty of us crammed into those daily sessions in the peaked attic room of the police annex. There were a handful of local teams from Birmingham and international crews shipped from Latin America. Then came the bookers and the producers, vying for exclusives with the cloistered mother. Then the shows with dramatic theme music, in crews as large as five. And of course, the Aruban print and radio reporters, who quickly became everyone's favorite sources of speculation.
...
But it also seems the sheer lack of information also spurred the story, because it left plenty of room for speculation, especially as the case progressed. (Aruban officials said releasing details of the investigation could cause a judge to throw out their case.) Natalee had been sold into white slavery, the blogs said. Natalee had run away on a previous trip abroad, Aruban radio countered. Fellow graduates who were on the trip refused to talk: conspiracy! The lead suspect's dad is a judge: conspiracy! My favorite theory came from Aruban reporters who thought police staged the false leak about a confession to discredit American news sources.

Back home in the newsroom, I continued reporting the story by phone as my Aruba tan faded, trying to confirm information as it flashed on TV. Again and again, I heard sources on the other end sigh and say, "No, that's not right." I watched the same television personality who "broke" the news about bloodstains in a suspect's car – which turned out not to be bloodstains – criticize authorities for taking Holloway's family on an emotional rollercoaster. But who's really driving?

http://www.ajr.org/article.asp?id=3936

It would appear some have learned from the mistakes and some have not.

 

[Tugela]

Let's look at that. If it came from the FBI, that means that the information was in the police files. Does that make TS a liar? Did the FBI leak it all to the ArubaHerald? Or will the FBI now be accused of just making it all up?

Was it the FBI that showed Julia the pictures?

Sorry but I don't find anything coming from Glenda credible.

JMHO

The Aruban LE wouldnt be handing evidence over to the FBI. The FBI would be assisting them in collecting evidence in the US, but that is likely the sum of their involvement. There would be no reason for Aruba to send the pictures to the FBI.

 

[otto]

Interesting point. I went back and looked for info on the reporting of NH. Here is an article from one reporter about it:



http://www.ajr.org/article.asp?id=3936

It would appear some have learned from the mistakes and some have not.

Thanks ... very interesting article. I think that it's possible that media outlets are taking the same approach that was taken in the disappearance of Ms Holloway. At that time, it was assumed (by some) that investigators were incompetent and that the investigation had to be carried out by the media and the mother of the missing woman. Media teams, like Nancy Grace, broadcast daily updates about the investigation based on what the family said while at the same time criticizing Aruban authorities. In this missing person case, the family is refusing to compromise the investigation by speaking with the media. That leaves the media scrambling for any information they can get, just like before, without any consideration for the investigation. It's unfortunate that the media seems more interested in sensationalizing this missing person case than abiding by the requests of investigators and letting them do their jobs. Aruba isn't the US, and there are no sunshine laws that give the public the right to all the investigative information before there is a trial. Personally I prefer a legal system that tries suspects in court, but it does require a little more patience for getting the information.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Sorry JAG, don't mean to be difficult, but I just don't understand that line of thinking....but "whatever", don't have to spend any more time on this. LOL!

No problem. This is basically the legal concept of negligence. In law school, an entire year is devoted to trying to teach law students to understand it. And many lawyers never do quite get there. It can be very counter-intuitive.

Nonetheless, I do believe this is what TS is talking about. And I do believe it can be made to fit. My guess is, the sentence for negligent homicide in Aruba is 2 to 3 years, if that. I'm holding out for more evidence and a murder charger....

 

[annalia]

The Aruban LE wouldnt be handing evidence over to the FBI. The FBI would be assisting them in collecting evidence in the US, but that is likely the sum of their involvement. There would be no reason for Aruba to send the pictures to the FBI.

I never thought they did, just as I don't believe for a second that the leaks came from the FBI.

 

[Tugela]

HS, the point was that it was originally stated with the claim that ABC was just making things up, bad reporting and accused of not really having any sources in Aruba.

I posted an article from the AH with the same information, confirming that they were awaiting tests on blood and a condom that was found. That should have proven that it wasn't just made up or that sources couldn't have come from anyone in Aruba. None of us know whether or not the source told ABC it was found on a rock or if it was the source that had some bad information about the blood, but bottom line, Aruba reported it as well. Then TS said there was no blood and no condom?

You bolded where I said that AH "also" stated it to be true. Is that wrong? Do you also believe that AH made it all up?

Instead we will split hairs about the a few hrs that it hit the news. smh

The Aruban media would have been reporting what ABC claimed. That is common practice in news, especially in small market news media. It doesn't mean that they arrived at the same news item independently.

 

[Peliman]

Someone and I don't know who posted this in thread #3 or I'd give them credit. I believe this was taken in the evening Robyn went missing, at least after 6:23-6:30pm sometime. It's also reported GG said the ocean was rough.

If Robyn drown snorkeling in salt water she should have surfaced in a couple days due to decomp gases and an average 87F water temp. It's just perplexing me she wasn't found or spotted after being gone only 2 hours.
Unless the body was weighted. All JMO

 

[otto]

The Aruban LE wouldnt be handing evidence over to the FBI. The FBI would be assisting them in collecting evidence in the US, but that is likely the sum of their involvement. There would be no reason for Aruba to send the pictures to the FBI.

The Aruban Authorities would have to justify any request for information, and support those requests with affidavits.

"In our request to the American authorities there will probably be something about searching the house. But at this moment that request has not yet reached U.S. authorities. So if that place is being searched it's not on my account."

Stein said they will also need to furnish U.S. authorities with enough information to seek a search warrant from a judge in order to search the home."

I'm sure they would have to "furnish US authorities with enough information to seek" info on cell phone records and insurance documents as well. Simply asking would never be enough. Therefore, some evidential information must have been given to the FBI.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/162086/373/Prosecutors-Giordano-Not-Cooperating-In-Gardner-Case

 

[otto]

I never thought they did, just as I don't believe for a second that the leaks came from the FBI.

The FBI would never be able to obtain information on GVG without filing an affidavit, and the only place to get information justifying those searches is from Aruban authorities. Therefore, the Aruban authorities had to give investigative information to the FBI.

 

[Tugela]

The Aruban Authorities would have to justify any request for information, and support those requests with affidavits.

"In our request to the American authorities there will probably be something about searching the house. But at this moment that request has not yet reached U.S. authorities. So if that place is being searched it's not on my account."

Stein said they will also need to furnish U.S. authorities with enough information to seek a search warrant from a judge in order to search the home."

I'm sure they would have to "furnish US authorities with enough information to seek" info on cell phone records and insurance documents as well. Simply asking would never be enough. Therefore, some evidential information must have been given to the FBI.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/162086/373/Prosecutors-Giordano-Not-Cooperating-In-Gardner-Case

They wouldnt turn over all the evidence they had collected, just that information which was relevent to getting the applicable warrants. So, it would be similar to the affidavits we are used to seeing. In this case it would likely be limited to the fact that she was missing, that his statements regarding that were misleading or incorrect, and that therefore further investigation was warranted.

 

[otto]

They wouldnt turn over all the evidence they had collected, just that information which was relevent to getting the applicable warrants. So, it would be similar to the affidavits we are used to seeing. In this case it would likely be limited to the fact that she was missing, that his statements regarding that were misleading or incorrect, and that therefore further investigation was warranted.

Quite true. The affidavits written by the Aruban authorities would only include information that is relevant to the information they seek. I don't think it's possible to get search warrants for GVG's cell phone because someone is missing, allegedly drowned during a snorkelling outting. There would have to be supporting information suggesting that a crime occurred, which would include some evidence.

If authorities were analysing a condom but the results were not yet returned, then something like that could be included in an affidavit.

 

[otto]

Maybe Just-A-Guy can help with the legal side of this, but wouldn't evidence collected but not yet identified fall under the probable cause information that is included in an affidavit?

 

[Tugela]

Quite true. The affidavits written by the Aruban authorities would only include information that is relevant to the information they seek. I don't think it's possible to get search warrants for GVG's cell phone because someone is missing, allegedly drowned during a snorkelling outting. There would have to be supporting information suggesting that a crime occurred, which would include some evidence.

If authorities were analysing a condom but the results were not yet returned, then something like that could be included in an affidavit.

I doubt it. Something like that could just be a random item, in the affidavit they would have to restrict it to things that could be connected to the event in some way. They may have picked up truckloads of random stuff in the search, but unless there was some reason to believe it was connected they would not include it.

Assuming that a condom was found, keep in mind that GG is probably not the only person on Aruba that uses condoms, it could belong to just about anyone.

 

[annalia]

Julia is a reporter so if she reports on the content of the photos, it's most likely that she got this information from investigators. If the media reports that Robyn has disappeared, I can't assume that they saw this happen. Instead, I will assume that they got the information from investigators. Similarly, there is no reason to assume that Julia has viewed the evidence gathered in the investigation.
Taco Stein has said that any information about blood on rocks did not come from the investigation. I suppose we will all decide for ourselves whether he is telling the truth, whether the translation of his comments is accurate and whether there was blood on the rocks. Per Taco Stein, ABC, and not investigators, are responsible for the information about blood on the rocks next to the ocean. If it didn't come from Aruban investigators, then perhaps it came from local gossip, perhaps from the FBI and perhaps ABC simply made it up to grab headlines.

It not unusual for investigators, like the FBI, to leak false information in order to generate leads. Since a recent article suggests that they want more control over the investigation, it wouldn't surprise me if they are leaking information to gain a little more control. It's hard to say where ABC is getting their information and why they are not verifying that the information is correct.

My bolding

A leak is a leak.

Even though TS stated they wouldn't release any more information about the photos, a local reporter who had specific details must have been told by investigators but that isn't an unauthorized leak?

Personally viewed or not viewed the information could only have come from police, or the original source was inside police and made its way thru other sources to her. It doesn't change the fact that it was leaked.

I don't see the analogy. Making a general announcement about RG's disappearance and getting specific details that were never officially released isn't the same.

And then by the same token, ABC has reporters there as well, so we can make the same assertion that info was coming from inside the pd, whether it was accurate or not is another issue.

TS never said that there was no investigator or no one inside the PD that told an ABC reporter, he said that the info wasn't in the inverstigation. Big difference between the two.

 

[annalia]

The information that was "leaked" is bogus, however. I don't see how it is plausible that the FBI would seek to leak false information into the media. Unless I put a tin foil hat on.

Nor do I.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Maybe Just-A-Guy can help with the legal side of this, but wouldn't evidence collected but not yet identified fall under the probable cause information that is included in an affidavit?

I haven't been following all of the discussions on this thread. What do you mean by "collected but not yet identified"? Are you talking about what would be needed from Aruba to get a search warrant in the US?

I thought I read that GG's house in MD has already been searched. Was that yet another example of bad reporting?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/29080609/detail.html

Aruba Suspect To Appeal Jail Ruling

Order Kept Maryland Man Behind Bars Another 60 Days

From Martin Savidge CNN

POSTED: Monday, September 5, 2011

UPDATED: 8:24 am EDT September 5, 2011

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- A Maryland man, detained in Aruba in connection with the disappearance of an American woman, plans to appeal a recent ruling keeping him behind bars for another 60 days.

Gary Giordano's lawyer said he plans to file the appeal in an Aruban court Monday.

A three-judge appellate panel could then affirm the earlier ruling and keep Giordano in custody or else set him free...

 

[annalia]

If this reporting is accurate, Lopez will be appealing the judge's ruling today.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/03/earlyshow/saturday/main20101338.shtml

Though he's been detained for a month, reports CBS News correspondent Elaine Quijano, Girodano has yet to be charged with a crime, and has denied any wrongdoing.

He is challenging the ruling of an Aruban judge this week that extended his incarceration in an Aruban jail by 60 days.

His attorney, Michael Lopez, said he plans to appeal the ruling Monday before a three judge panel.

 

[annalia]

OT I'm sorry BettyDavisEyes, I didn't catch that you had posted the same thing.