ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[HatesSociopaths]

July 27 form. Note the way the R is started in the initials.

May 10 form. Note the way the R is started in the signature.

That looks very similar.

If that is the same person who signed the May 10 form that initialed the July 27 form, then why did the July 27 signature come out with this kind of R - the signer starts their R at the bottom instead of to the left:

 

[LambChop]

Totally agree, do you have any idea at all why they haven't brought in search dogs? Thx

I believe the dogs have to be brought in from the States or Holland. States are closer. The area they were in is very, very rocky, rough, jagged rocks. Going into the water past the baby beach (a protected cove) portion is dangerous and you better be a good swimmer. That area and the back side of the island has extremely strong currents and swimming is often prohibited because of the undertoe. That is why he had on the sneakers if he was in the water. Tough to walk in that area. Plus that time of day....fish are feeding. There are sharks in that area and the backside. There are cliffs close to Baby Beach and in the time he was suppose to be snorkeling he could have had her near the cliffs. Plus who goes in the water with just a couple of drinks much less snorkeling.

Baby Beach, itself, is a nice beach. Great for the family because the protective beach area is very shallow, warm and lots of sand. Kids love it.

I'm sorry for RG's family but I must say Aruban police are very thorough. The court system is just different than ours. They protect their own but when I had a break in and thief in my condo they sent out five LE and I was satisfied with the results. The native Arubans are very honest people but they have to bring workers from other countries and some of our American criminals like to vacation there, too. So there is crime there but much of it is from outsiders. I still feel it is one of the safest countries to travel to. jmo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

The following is all opinion, just looking at how these pieces might fit together, other than the simple explanation that RG signed these forms herself.

Working hypothesis: There is an accomplice to the filling out of these forms. A copy of Robyn's signature was not obtained until the trip to Aruba, thus the variance in signatures. The accomplice was gotten so as to be used as proof that he took out accidental death insurance on other women, and as a witness to his good character. The accomplice was involved in the crime immediately so as to ensure full participation, thus was gotten to sign/fill-out the forms.

Motive for the accompice: In love with GG and wanting to be rid of competition, and share in the pay-out. I would also opine that she was manipulated and pressured into doing so.

This hypothesis falls apart if that is Robyn's handwriting and signature on the forms. But again, those two signatures are markedly different in my non-expert opinion. I hope we get further information on this point soon from an expert on handwriting.

 

[LambChop]

Robyn's BF, Richard Forester, talked to her on the phone her first day in Aruba, according to his interview on HLN. I would think a 911 call could be made as well?

Yes, he could have made the call.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I believe the dogs have to be brought in from the States or Holland. States are closer. The area they were in is very, very rocky, rough, jagged rocks. Going into the water past the baby beach (a protected cove) portion is dangerous and you better be a good swimmer. That area and the back side of the island has extremely strong currents and swimming is often prohibited because of the undertoe. That is why he had on the sneakers if he was in the water. Tough to walk in that area. Plus that time of day....fish are feeding. There are sharks in that area and the backside. There are cliffs close to Baby Beach and in the time he was suppose to be snorkeling he could have had her near the cliffs. Plus who goes in the water with just a couple of drinks much less snorkeling.

Baby Beach, itself, is a nice beach. Great for the family because the protective beach area is very shallow, warm and lots of sand. Kids love it.

I'm sorry for RG's family but I must say Aruban police are very thorough. The court system is just different than ours. They protect their own but when I had a break in and thief in my condo they sent out five LE and I was satisfied with the results. The native Arubans are very honest people but they have to bring workers from other countries and some of our American criminals like to vacation there, too. So there is crime there but much of it is from outsiders. I still feel it is one of the safest countries to travel to. jmo

Thanks for the info. Great to have a local weigh in. Would you say it is reasonable that Gary would have risked being seen to carry Robyn to a cliff and throw her in the water? Are there areas where he could have felt the coast is clear (no pun intended) to do so? TIA.

 

[Micheline]

I had no luck with finding the video. This may be helpful, though it doesn't have a distance scale:

Thank you HS.

The location where they allegedly went swiiming is that all the way to the left? TIA

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Thank you HS.

The location where they allegedly went swiiming is that all the way to the left? TIA

Yes it is.

 

[Micheline]

It still spooks me the way GG was witnessed to be staring at his watch and made the statement "she might be dead now", as though he knew wherever he left her, there was an element of time involved before she would die.

-bolded by me.

I do not think this occured since GG does not wear a watch in any of the pic/video released of him on Aruba; not on the security camera footage (knocking on shutters), not on the footage with Robyn, not on the pics/video during the evening search, not on the pics from the next day.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Thank you HS.

The location where they allegedly went swiiming is that all the way to the left? TIA

The other notable thing is that in the surveillance videos, the earliest noted time is 4:15, and GG is in the front of the restaurant, as if he had just parked his vehicle in the front parking lot. If he had gone by foot, the shortest distance is to the back of the restaurant. Later, he goes to the back of the restaurant which can be seen in the video.

MOO.

 

[LambChop]

Thanks for the info. Great to have a local weigh in. Would you say it is reasonable that Gary would have risked being seen to carry Robyn to a cliff and throw her in the water? Are there areas where he could have felt the coast is clear (no pun intended) to do so? TIA.

The cliffs are beautiful in a rustic sort of way. The ocean spray comes up over them and some cliffs are quite high. There are never a lot of people on the back part of the island, no homes in most areas, just fishing shacks, very, very secluded. At that time in the evening I would say you would not expect to see anyone back there. And you can see both ways for a long way if someone is driving. You won't see people walking back there, they come by car. Lots of rocks, too. Almost like lava but I believe it is coral so anyone could put someone in a bag, weigh it down and push it off a cliff. Not sure how long it would stay out there though. At times it looks like alot comes back in and lands on little beach areas between the breaks in the cliffs.

What alerted me was the time of the day they decided to go snorkeling. That is way too late, plus the area. It's close to the tip of the island and I would imagine the currents running into each other would cause some wicked riptides. I know years ago we were told don't go in the water there the currents are too strong.

My question would be is this the first time GG has been to Aruba or has he visited the island before? Unless RG's family pushes for information I don't think we will get much information. LE keeps things close to the vest. But, if you ask a local you'd probably get the whole story. They seem to know the details about what is going on. Goes over the island like wildfire. My guess is Aruba will do their investigation and if they decide it's too much trouble to charge him they will let him go but not before the US Federal Court has all their information. They could decide to give him up to US authorities and just get rid of him. jmo

Aruba does not need any bad press. They are still recovering from Natalie. Many, many Arubans were upset over what happened to Natalie and even to this day.

 

[Dushi]

The cliffs are beautiful in a rustic sort of way. The ocean spray comes up over them and some cliffs are quite high. There are never a lot of people on the back part of the island, no homes in most areas, just fishing shacks, very, very secluded. At that time in the evening I would say you would not expect to see anyone back there. And you can see both ways for a long way if someone is driving. You won't see people walking back there, they come by car. Lots of rocks, too. Almost like lava but I believe it is coral so anyone could put someone in a bag, weigh it down and push it off a cliff. Not sure how long it would stay out there though. At times it looks like alot comes back in and lands on little beach areas between the breaks in the cliffs.

What alerted me was the time of the day they decided to go snorkeling. That is way too late, plus the area. It's close to the tip of the island and I would imagine the currents running into each other would cause some wicked riptides. I know years ago we were told don't go in the water there the currents are too strong.

My question would be is this the first time GG has been to Aruba or has he visited the island before? Unless RG's family pushes for information I don't think we will get much information. LE keeps things close to the vest. But, if you ask a local you'd probably get the whole story. They seem to know the details about what is going on. Goes over the island like wildfire. My guess is Aruba will do their investigation and if they decide it's too much trouble to charge him they will let him go but not before the US Federal Court has all their information. They could decide to give him up to US authorities and just get rid of him. jmo

Aruba does not need any bad press. They are still recovering from Natalie. Many, many Arubans were upset over what happened to Natalie and even to this day.[/QUOTE]



I so agree with you
It has been sad to watch how upset the Arubans have been and I am sure they are upset about the disappearance of Robyn Gardner also.

However, i am not a local, just a frequent visitor. I have always been the one to bring NH up with my Aruban friends. After I have opened the discussion, they have been forthcoming with their views.

It is also my opinion that many local people do not have access to the media that we have in Canada and the US.
I am not sure they know the story
If LE plays it close to the vest, I am not sure what source they have
Heaven knows, our information is often not accurate

 

[Micheline]

I believe the dogs have to be brought in from the States or Holland. States are closer. The area they were in is very, very rocky, rough, jagged rocks. Going into the water past the baby beach (a protected cove) portion is dangerous and you better be a good swimmer. That area and the back side of the island has extremely strong currents and swimming is often prohibited because of the undertoe. That is why he had on the sneakers if he was in the water. Tough to walk in that area. Plus that time of day....fish are feeding. There are sharks in that area and the backside. There are cliffs close to Baby Beach and in the time he was suppose to be snorkeling he could have had her near the cliffs. Plus who goes in the water with just a couple of drinks much less snorkeling.

-Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.


Thank you for this explanation, it also fits was GG himself said, namely that he did went snorkeling with his shoes on:

He said something went wrong while swimming in the rough water, telling police he tried to take of his sneakers when attempting to get to shore because they were heavy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-murd...ano-calmly-told-authorities/story?id=14403446

There has been numerous remarks about GG putting on his shoes prior to seek help as if he did not care, but per his declaration to the police he has stated that he was wearing his sneakers while snorkeling, which would be appropriate thing to do looking at the location with jagged rocks and coral.

 

[LambChop]

The cliffs are beautiful in a rustic sort of way. The ocean spray comes up over them and some cliffs are quite high. There are never a lot of people on the back part of the island, no homes in most areas, just fishing shacks, very, very secluded. At that time in the evening I would say you would not expect to see anyone back there. And you can see both ways for a long way if someone is driving. You won't see people walking back there, they come by car. Lots of rocks, too. Almost like lava but I believe it is coral so anyone could put someone in a bag, weigh it down and push it off a cliff. Not sure how long it would stay out there though. At times it looks like alot comes back in and lands on little beach areas between the breaks in the cliffs.

What alerted me was the time of the day they decided to go snorkeling. That is way too late, plus the area. It's close to the tip of the island and I would imagine the currents running into each other would cause some wicked riptides. I know years ago we were told don't go in the water there the currents are too strong.

My question would be is this the first time GG has been to Aruba or has he visited the island before? Unless RG's family pushes for information I don't think we will get much information. LE keeps things close to the vest. But, if you ask a local you'd probably get the whole story. They seem to know the details about what is going on. Goes over the island like wildfire. My guess is Aruba will do their investigation and if they decide it's too much trouble to charge him they will let him go but not before the US Federal Court has all their information. They could decide to give him up to US authorities and just get rid of him. jmo

Aruba does not need any bad press. They are still recovering from Natalie. Many, many Arubans were upset over what happened to Natalie and even to this day.[/QUOTE]



I so agree with you
It has been sad to watch how upset the Arubans have been and I am sure they are upset about the disappearance of Robyn Gardner also.

However, i am not a local, just a frequent visitor. I have always been the one to bring NH up with my Aruban friends. After I have opened the discussion, they have been forthcoming with their views.

I see you use Dushi. I love the Mi Dushi and have been out on it many times. I've been going every year to Aruba since 1985. It is like my home away from home.

If GG did get rid of her body I don't see him putting her there at Baby Beach. I see him driving up the Eastern part of the island (short trip) where the cliffs are and either pushing her off or dumping her body there. You know how rough that sea is and by the time they would find her he figured they would think her body traveled there with the currents. I don't think the current go that way but he may not know that. Plus it is pretty well know down there that this was at one time the shark feeding grounds. Years ago the islanders would throw the scraps and unusable meat out there. I don't think they do that anymore.

If she was drinking I think he could have pushed her. It certainly would be easy and she would be no match for him. jmo

 

[Micheline]

No, I think that's a different state of mind. He's moving too slowly, too methodically, too systematically. A person who just lost someone at sea would be madly trying to get help, yelling, running, banging, screaming and begging for help. I think his movements show an amateurish calculation. As in, "OK, I neexd to move around, make noise, act like I'm looking for help," but compromised by a state of mind that is distracted, self-absorbed, lost, afraid for himself.

Mind you, I recognize this is pure guesswork. These are just my observations. They are based on 20 years of practicing law and trying to measure the veracity of witnesses and so forth, but that doesn't make them any less guesswork.

I think they'll nail this ******* before it's over, despite the fact that they (ALE) are totally incompetent, understaffed, underfunded, undertrained and lacking in resources. He's just that stupid.


Edit: Ha. It appears that calling a GG by his true colors is prohibited here. I meant to say he is an azz-hole.

Just a Guy, I respect your opinion, personally I cannot come to this conclusion by the footage released yesterday.

We do not know if prior to GG arriving at (and walking around) the RumReef if maybe he had went back into the sea to look for Robyn, ran from left to right upto the yetti then all the way back on the right etc, and then finally completely exhausted walked/ran to the Rum Reef to have someone call 911.

His demeanor seems flat, you can interpretate that as someone who does his dance on automatic pilot or establishing an alibi or who does not care, but you can also interpretate that also as someone who looks completely exhausted and beaten.

The card provided by HS shows the distance from the beach to RR is significant, who knows maybe he went by foot and ran all the way, we do not know.

This is what GG declared to the police when they said he did not seem in a hurry on the RR footage: "I was completely exhausted".

 

[Dushi]

I see you use Dushi. I love the Mi Dushi and have been out on it many times. I've been going every year to Aruba since 1985. It is like my home away from home.

If GG did get rid of her body I don't see him putting her there at Baby Beach. I see him driving up the Eastern part of the island (short trip) where the cliffs are and either pushing her off or dumping her body there. You know how rough that sea is and by the time they would find her he figured they would think her body traveled there with the currents. I don't think the current go that way but he may not know that. Plus it is pretty well know down there that this was at one time the shark feeding grounds. Years ago the islanders would throw the scraps and unusable meat out there. I don't think they do that anymore.

If she was drinking I think he could have pushed her. It certainly would be easy and she would be no match for him. jmo

LOL, my home away from home also
I have actually spent far more time there over the last eighteen years than "home"

The "rough" side of the Island is indeed that
I really have no idea what would happen to a body if it was thrown off at that end
Many drug runners do wash ashore up there after an unsuccessful attempt at bringing drugs onto the island from boats
Yes, years ago food was thrown out there but not for many years
Of course, there are sharks...

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Just a Guy, I respect your opinion, personally I cannot come to this conclusion by the footage released yesterday.

We do not know if prior to GG arriving at (and walking around) the RumReef if maybe he had went back into the sea to look for Robyn, ran from left to right upto the yetti then all the way back on the right etc, and then finally completely exhausted walked/ran to the Rum Reef to have someone call 911.

His demeanor seems flat, you can interpretate that as someone who does his dance on automatic pilot or establishing an alibi or who does not care, but you can also interpretate that also as someone who looks completely exhausted and beaten.

The card provided by HS shows the distance from the beach to RR is significant, who knows maybe he went by foot and ran all the way, we do not know.

This is what GG declared to the police when they said he did not seem in a hurry on the RR footage: "I was completely exhausted".

I suppose. You could be right. We really just don't know, do we? It's the kind of thing that would be up to a court to decide. Kind of hard to convict a man based on this alone...but with all the other evidence, it may be a contributing bit of information and could be interpreted either way, I guess.

I'm holding out for a body. Breaks do happen. It looks like they've found Susan Powell. I think they may yet find Robin.

Until they do, or something else major develops...we're all just guessing.

 

[LambChop]

-Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.


Thank you for this explanation, it also fits was GG himself said, namely that he did went snorkeling with his shoes on:

He said something went wrong while swimming in the rough water, telling police he tried to take of his sneakers when attempting to get to shore because they were heavy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-murd...ano-calmly-told-authorities/story?id=14403446

There has been numerous remarks about GG putting on his shoes prior to seek help as if he did not care, but per his declaration to the police he has stated that he was wearing his sneakers while snorkeling, which would be appropriate thing to do looking at the location with jagged rocks and coral.

Not sure you would want to ruin a good pair of sneakers when you can buy beach shoes for about $10. Heavy sneakers can weigh you down when you are trying to swim.

Plus there is a lovely area for people to snorkel right near the Marriett. I mean it is right there. All the locals go there. Where they went at Baby Beach is dangerous on the other side of the breakers which is where it appears they went in. I don't know of anyone in their right mind who would go in with a pair of sneakers on.

Question if anyone knows, if RG cut her toe and they went back into the water and she disappeared how did the blood get next to the car???? jmo

 

[Micheline]

March 30 form by mystery person:

July 3 form by mystery person:

July 27 RG Beneficiary form:

I would say they look different - the 7-27 form has a greater slant on the 7, the 11 tilts to the right, and all numbers are raised from the line to place the date on, unlike the other 2. So someone other than the mystery woman (who filled out the forms on March 30 and July 3) filled out the July 27 form. MOO.

Need to see Robyn's handwriting samples to know if it was her.

HS, do any of the forms shown on ABC also show the part where Giordano's name as alleged is filled in as the benificiary? TIA

 

[HatesSociopaths]

The cliffs are beautiful in a rustic sort of way. The ocean spray comes up over them and some cliffs are quite high. There are never a lot of people on the back part of the island, no homes in most areas, just fishing shacks, very, very secluded. At that time in the evening I would say you would not expect to see anyone back there. And you can see both ways for a long way if someone is driving. You won't see people walking back there, they come by car. Lots of rocks, too. Almost like lava but I believe it is coral so anyone could put someone in a bag, weigh it down and push it off a cliff. Not sure how long it would stay out there though. At times it looks like alot comes back in and lands on little beach areas between the breaks in the cliffs.

What alerted me was the time of the day they decided to go snorkeling. That is way too late, plus the area. It's close to the tip of the island and I would imagine the currents running into each other would cause some wicked riptides. I know years ago we were told don't go in the water there the currents are too strong.

My question would be is this the first time GG has been to Aruba or has he visited the island before? Unless RG's family pushes for information I don't think we will get much information. LE keeps things close to the vest. But, if you ask a local you'd probably get the whole story. They seem to know the details about what is going on. Goes over the island like wildfire. My guess is Aruba will do their investigation and if they decide it's too much trouble to charge him they will let him go but not before the US Federal Court has all their information. They could decide to give him up to US authorities and just get rid of him. jmo

Aruba does not need any bad press. They are still recovering from Natalie. Many, many Arubans were upset over what happened to Natalie and even to this day.

Thanks. Your info about the currents and the dangers of that place he was at is also what the fisherman Sergio Silva said in his interview. It appears this is local common knowledge, perhaps something GG could have come to understand by having a couple of conversations on the island, or even before arriving. Per an earlier unconfirmed report, this is his first trip to Aruba. If GG was plotting the "accidental death" he chose a spot which he thought would fit the story, and visited it the day before to confirm how he could portray events. With your additional info about the relative ease one could throw a body off a cliff in some areas without being seen, it certainly is possible he had that knowledge as well and disposed of the body that way. Then there is the fact no body has washed up, and per you and others they usually do.

Perhaps, if ABC's source is correct (a big if), we will get to know a lot of info about this case when the Federal Grand Jury is held in a couple of weeks. I am curious if he can be indicted on a 1st Degree Murder charge, if the premeditation occurred in Maryland and was then sent to AMEX in another state, then the death occurring in Aruba. I am also wondering how it ties in with the Aruba proceedings, and what sequence events would occur in, etc.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

HS, do any of the forms shown on ABC also show the part where Giordano's name as alleged is filled in as the benificiary? TIA

Yes. Here is July 27:

Here is May 10:

This is GG's own form where he lists his mother as beneficiary: