ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[krimekat]

Gary Giordano Hiring Casey Anthony's Lawyer 'Is A Joke,' Says Missing Woman's Boyfriend

Rather than being angry though about the hiring of the high profile attorney, Forester, who had been dating 35-year-old Gardner for two years before her disappearance on August 2, considers it to be ridiculous.

"As far as my opinion of him [Baez], I don’t care. It’s a joke," he told RadarOnline.com. "The only reason he won the Anthony case is because the baby was too far deteriorated by the time they found the body - my dog could have won that case!

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...r-jose-baez-joke-says-robyn-gardner-boyfriend

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Incidentally, the original story coming out about the Beneficiary Form was that it was witnessed. Perhaps that is what GG indeed said, and the "witness" is the person who filled out the form.

 

[Cuoco7]

Yes. Here is July 27:

Here is May 10:

This is GG's own form where he lists his mother as beneficiary:

So the "G's" are the same for written name Gary and initials of Robyn?
I'm sorry if that's the topic, I've missed a lot and probably need to catch up.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

So the "G's" are the same for written name Gary and initials of Robyn?
I'm sorry if that's the topic, I've missed a lot and probably need to catch up.

Points being discussed are the initials of RG on the July 27 form and how the "R" in the initial is similar to how the R looks on the RG signature on the May 10 form. Also, the way the printed handwriting looks on the forms, how they appear to be two different people. The handwriting on the May 10 form appears to be GG, based on the printed handwriting on his own form where he designates his beneficiary as his mother. Since the two Robyn Gardner signatures appear to be different to me, I have been speculating that both signatures are forged. The question I have raised is who's printed handwriting could that be then on the second form. I am hypothesizing that there may be an accomplice to this fraud. It was reported earlier that the Beneficiary Form had been witnessed, yet there is no witness signature on the form. Therefore, it is possible, if that report is correct, that GG said it verbally to investigators, knowing he had an accomplice ready to back him up on this.

My working hypothesis at the moment is that the lover appearing on the news media shows saying she has taken trips with GG and signed him as beneficiary as well, would do it again, he's a great guy, etc. is possibly the accomplice, if indeed there is one.

MOO.

 

[Micheline]

July 27 form. Note the way the R is started in the initials.

May 10 form. Note the way the R is started in the signature.

That looks very similar.

If that is the same person who signed the May 10 form that initialed the July 27 form, then why did the July 27 signature come out with this kind of R - the signer starts their R at the bottom instead of to the left:

That is odd, the "R"'s all start like a "7" then up again and continue the "R" up to the right and then down to the right, but in the last one it goes up to the right and down to the left, the opposite way if the pen is not lifted.
If Robyn would at times lift the pen when making the "R" then I suppose it could happen to become like this, because if you lift the pen after the "7" you would make the same movement (finishing the "R" to the right, but starting it a quarter inch left from the botttom of the "7" while when not lifting the pen the same movement would be made from the bottom of the "7".
I mean to say if there was a connecting line between the "7" and the finshing of the "R" in the last signature, the movement would be correct.

I would think if someone wanted to forge a signature that "R" made by Robyn is so very easy to reproduce there would be no need to make such a different one in case of a alleged 1,5 million scam and murder. IMO

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Here is a blow-up of that last signature. Your feedback M is appreciated - that was an interesting commentary on it.

 

[neesaki]

That thought has crossed my mind as well
With her tattoos and face all over the news, where would she go?

Plus, if this is the case, it's been a while now, what is she living off of, Giordano's money? lol If this were the case, imo, he's much too self-centered and greedy, he would make sure that he were the one who was "missing" not Robyn.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

That is odd, the "R"'s all start like a "7" then up again and continue the "R" up to the right and then down to the right, but in the last one it goes up to the right and down to the left, the opposite way if the pen is not lifted.
If Robyn would at times lift the pen when making the "R" then I suppose it could happen to become like this, because if you lift the pen after the "7" you would make the same movement (finishing the "R" to the right, but starting it a quarter inch left from the botttom of the "7" while when not lifting the pen the same movement would be made from the bottom of the "7".
I mean to say if there was a connecting line between the "7" and the finshing of the "R" in the last signature, the movement would be correct.

I would think if someone wanted to forge a signature that "R" made by Robyn is so very easy to reproduce there would be no need to make such a different one in case of a alleged 1,5 million scam and murder. IMO

The red lines and numbers represent the sequence in time I see these strokes occurring in.

That type of R doesn't match with the type of R being written in the first signature - "7" is a good description for how the pen stroke starts:

What's interesting though is that "7" is visible in the initials of the July 27 form:

MOO.

Maybe her hand bumped a little to the left (or she was drunk?) and so what is normally a sharp 7 on strokes 1 and 2 noted in red, turned into that instead. She then had to correct it with stroke 3. That's quite a curve ball for non-expert eyes like mine if that is the case!

A sample of her own handwriting would help a lot.

 

[neesaki]

The following is all opinion, just looking at how these pieces might fit together, other than the simple explanation that RG signed these forms herself.

Working hypothesis: There is an accomplice to the filling out of these forms. A copy of Robyn's signature was not obtained until the trip to Aruba, thus the variance in signatures. The accomplice was gotten so as to be used as proof that he took out accidental death insurance on other women, and as a witness to his good character. The accomplice was involved in the crime immediately so as to ensure full participation, thus was gotten to sign/fill-out the forms.

Motive for the accompice: In love with GG and wanting to be rid of competition, and share in the pay-out. I would also opine that she was manipulated and pressured into doing so.

This hypothesis falls apart if that is Robyn's handwriting and signature on the forms. But again, those two signatures are markedly different in my non-expert opinion. I hope we get further information on this point soon from an expert on handwriting.

I am no expert, but the signatures look significantly different to me as well, jmo.

 

[neesaki]

Gary Giordano Hiring Casey Anthony's Lawyer 'Is A Joke,' Says Missing Woman's Boyfriend

Rather than being angry though about the hiring of the high profile attorney, Forester, who had been dating 35-year-old Gardner for two years before her disappearance on August 2, considers it to be ridiculous.

"As far as my opinion of him [Baez], I don’t care. It’s a joke," he told RadarOnline.com. "The only reason he won the Anthony case is because the baby was too far deteriorated by the time they found the body - my dog could have won that case!

I Love It !

 

[neesaki]

That is odd, the "R"'s all start like a "7" then up again and continue the "R" up to the right and then down to the right, but in the last one it goes up to the right and down to the left, the opposite way if the pen is not lifted.
If Robyn would at times lift the pen when making the "R" then I suppose it could happen to become like this, because if you lift the pen after the "7" you would make the same movement (finishing the "R" to the right, but starting it a quarter inch left from the botttom of the "7" while when not lifting the pen the same movement would be made from the bottom of the "7".
I mean to say if there was a connecting line between the "7" and the finshing of the "R" in the last signature, the movement would be correct.

I would think if someone wanted to forge a signature that "R" made by Robyn is so very easy to reproduce there would be no need to make such a different one in case of a alleged 1,5 million scam and murder. IMO

I don't see how these signatures could be authentic (maybe one is, but which one). They look nothing alike. I'm not qualified, but they don't even look like good forgeries, imo.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Hadn't seen this before:

BLOOM: Yes. Christina Jones, you have known Robyn for four years. You have been her roommate. This must be such an extraordinarily difficult time for you. I so appreciate your being here and giving her a voice. Aruban police found photos of Robyn naked in Gary`s camera and, in fact, these photos are being described as "beyond pornographic." So, what I want to know is, is this the kind of thing Robyn was into as far as you know?

CHRISTINA JONES, FRIEND OF ROBYN GARDNER: As far as I know, you know, she wasn`t into that. I -- you know, only, like, only Gary and Robyn know but she never shared anything like that and it seems to feel off to me but you`re learning that women have been drugged by him, he`s roofied girls, so, who`s to say that she wasn`t high or on some, you know, pills and alcohol when those photos were taken. Like, we don`t know.

BLOOM: Yes, we don`t have any confirmation of that at this point but I understand your concerns as her friend and as her roommate. You`re still living in the apartment that you have shared with her. What`s that like for you, walking by her room many times a day?

Not sure where that report came from? If true, perhaps that is indeed what GG was doing at 4 p.m. when seen returning alone to the rental vehicle with a cup in his hand, then going back into the restaurant. He then could have waited for the drug to knock her out by the beach, then put her in the water as far out as he could to get it into the outward currents, etc.

MOO.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/19/ddhln.01.html

 

[neesaki]

Hadn't seen this before:



Not sure where that report came from? If true, perhaps that is indeed what GG was doing at 4 p.m. when seen returning alone to the rental vehicle with a cup in his hand, then going back into the restaurant. He then could have waited for the drug to knock her out by the beach, then put her in the water as far out as he could to get it into the outward currents, etc.

MOO.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/19/ddhln.01.html

I remember watching this interview w/ CJ on CNN HLN a while back. I was thinking about all of this today after my post about him grabbing her leg and pulling her under, about how easy it would have been for him to drug her, on top of the alcohol she had been drinking, and just pull her out to sea. He was a scuba diver wasn't he? Could have weighted her down too.

 

[Tugela]

Please don't speak for me, I can assure you, even when panicking, I'd take 1/10th of a second to glance over my shoulder to see if you were dead, alive, or ahead of me so that maybe you could go for help for me.

Do you have link that shows how 99% of how people react in a riptide when in the ocean with a partner?

Second, can anyone show me a link where GG stated to LE that they were caught in a riptide, swimming in a panic, swimming for their lives? :waitasec: Articles I've seen indicate GG stated that the water started to get rough, he tapped on her leg, signaled they should head in, swam to shore... oops! She's gone.

Never once have I read that he stated he/they were swimming for their lives trying to break out of a riptide.

Last, I'm never going to buy "99% react this way in blah blah blah situation...." I've just watched a video making the media rounds of at least a dozen people run TOWARD a completely engulfed in flames motorcycle and partially engulfed car. Is it smart to run TOWARD flames approaching a car's gas tank? Is it logical for them to believe they could lift the car? Run away from the flames, call for help, everyone says so. No, they ran towards, to lift the car off a STRANGER. Every single one of those people were not in the '99% people'. People all react differently in panic, and emergencies, and some actually become numb, then calm and focused, some do panic and become self focused, some ignore all the rules they know and will break rules to look out for a stranger.

If your life is in immediate danger and you panick, you run and don't look back or stop to help anyone. If you do any of that, you are fearfull, but not panicking, there is a difference.

There have been plenty of instances where masses of people have stampeded in a panick and trampled others to death. If you have ever seen any footage of those sorts of events, or situations when gunmen start firing on crowds for example, the vast majority of people run for their lives and dont look back. Allmost all people who go to mass events like that go with family or friends, so there are people to look around for. It generally doesn't happen though, not until the panick subsides anyway.

IIRC the reports were that he tapped her leg because conditions were worsening, and then swam for his life until hitting a rock. It was only then that he looked back and didn't see her. Sounds like panick to me, and that is exactly what you would expect someone to do in that sort of situation. The only exceptions generally would be when the persons involved have deep emotional ties and might be willing to risk death to do something.

Oh, and the people who lifted the car to help that guy were not in immediate mortal danger themselves, nor were they panicked, so it is not a comparable situation.

 

[LambChop]

Thanks. Your info about the currents and the dangers of that place he was at is also what the fisherman Sergio Silva said in his interview. It appears this is local common knowledge, perhaps something GG could have come to understand by having a couple of conversations on the island, or even before arriving. Per an earlier unconfirmed report, this is his first trip to Aruba. If GG was plotting the "accidental death" he chose a spot which he thought would fit the story, and visited it the day before to confirm how he could portray events. With your additional info about the relative ease one could throw a body off a cliff in some areas without being seen, it certainly is possible he had that knowledge as well and disposed of the body that way. Then there is the fact no body has washed up, and per you and others they usually do.

Perhaps, if ABC's source is correct (a big if), we will get to know a lot of info about this case when the Federal Grand Jury is held in a couple of weeks. I am curious if he can be indicted on a 1st Degree Murder charge, if the premeditation occurred in Maryland and was then sent to AMEX in another state, then the death occurring in Aruba. I am also wondering how it ties in with the Aruba proceedings, and what sequence events would occur in, etc.

She is an American who allegedly was killed by an American and motive being, IMO, the insurance policy. If Aruba decides to send him back it becomes a Federal issue. Not sure how JB figures he is qualified to even assist in this matter. GG past record will not help him. Also seeing him on the video bringing her more to drink from the car will not help his case either.

Anyone else think it is odd that a man who probably spent a lot of money on a toupe would risk losing it in the water while snorkeling? jmo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

She is an American who allegedly was killed by an American and motive being, IMO, the insurance policy. If Aruba decides to send him back it becomes a Federal issue. Not sure how JB figures he is qualified to even assist in this matter. GG past record will not help him. Also seeing him on the video bringing her more to drink from the car will not help his case either.

Anyone else think it is odd that a man who probably spent a lot of money on a toupe would risk losing it in the water while snorkeling? jmo

Yes it is odd, particularly if he does not have water resistant glue, which could be checked for by investigators. An earlier girlfriend said he would not have gone into the water with it. Also, salt water lessens the life of the piece.

 

[concentric]

Gary Giordano Hiring Casey Anthony's Lawyer 'Is A Joke,' Says Missing Woman's Boyfriend

Rather than being angry though about the hiring of the high profile attorney, Forester, who had been dating 35-year-old Gardner for two years before her disappearance on August 2, considers it to be ridiculous.

"As far as my opinion of him [Baez], I don’t care. It’s a joke," he told RadarOnline.com. "The only reason he won the Anthony case is because the baby was too far deteriorated by the time they found the body - my dog could have won that case!

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...r-jose-baez-joke-says-robyn-gardner-boyfriend

----------
RF may also realize this could be considered beneficial because it has brought even more attention to the fact that Robyn is missing.

OK, now that I've read the entire article, RF does say this:

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...r-jose-baez-joke-says-robyn-gardner-boyfriend

He went on to say that he's happy that the 50-year-old businessman suspected of Robyn's murder chose such a scandal-causing legal sidekick. "He‘s going to bring more attention to the hunt for Robyn, which is good! Thank you for hiring him," he told RadarOnline.com. "They can hire Johnnie L. Cochran's dead body for all I care."

 

[Peliman]

If your life is in immediate danger and you panick, you run and don't look back or stop to help anyone. If you do any of that, you are fearfull, but not panicking, there is a difference.

There have been plenty of instances where masses of people have stampeded in a panick and trampled others to death. If you have ever seen any footage of those sorts of events, or situations when gunmen start firing on crowds for example, the vast majority of people run for their lives and dont look back. Allmost all people who go to mass events like that go with family or friends, so there are people to look around for. It generally doesn't happen though, not until the panick subsides anyway.

IIRC the reports were that he tapped her leg because conditions were worsening, and then swam for his life until hitting a rock. It was only then that he looked back and didn't see her. Sounds like panick to me, and that is exactly what you would expect someone to do in that sort of situation. The only exceptions generally would be when the persons involved have deep emotional ties and might be willing to risk death to do something.

Oh, and the people who lifted the car to help that guy were not in immediate mortal danger themselves, nor were they panicked, so it is not a comparable situation.

Speaking of those worsening conditions, here's what they appeared like to police when they arrived. Really rough out there wasn't it.

 

[concentric]

Yup, that sure looks real bad out there, Peliman, real bad for someone.

 

[Kamille]

So if GG was wearing sneakers on his feet because of the jagged rocks and coral, what was RG wearing on her feet? Does she own a pair of sneakers or beach shoes that are missing? Did she buy any while down there? Or did GG just let her slice up her feet on the way into his "special" snorkling hole?

MOO