ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[concentric]

uh, where are those darn flippers anyway?

 

[neesaki]

ETA: Having a girlfriend as an accomplice in a multi-million dollar fraud scam is not new with Giordano. This is from about a year and a half ago:



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/23/suspect-in-aruba-claimed-money-woes/

So he committed forgery and fraud, wonder why he wasn't indicted for this crime:waitasec:

 

[Magdalyn]

If your life is in immediate danger and you panick, you run and don't look back or stop to help anyone. If you do any of that, you are fearfull, but not panicking, there is a difference.

There have been plenty of instances where masses of people have stampeded in a panick and trampled others to death. If you have ever seen any footage of those sorts of events, or situations when gunmen start firing on crowds for example, the vast majority of people run for their lives and dont look back. Allmost all people who go to mass events like that go with family or friends, so there are people to look around for. It generally doesn't happen though, not until the panick subsides anyway.

IIRC the reports were that he tapped her leg because conditions were worsening, and then swam for his life until hitting a rock. It was only then that he looked back and didn't see her. Sounds like panick to me, and that is exactly what you would expect someone to do in that sort of situation. The only exceptions generally would be when the persons involved have deep emotional ties and might be willing to risk death to do something.

Oh, and the people who lifted the car to help that guy were not in immediate mortal danger themselves, nor were they panicked, so it is not a comparable situation.

This is the last I'll comment on this, cause I'm sure we could go round and round and never agree...

Please, please, please, provide all of us a link that shows that GG's statement to police says they were fighting a riptide and fighting their individual ways to shore. A police statement that he 'swam for his life'. I can't find a single one. And I'm not talking about one where you infer panic while they were swimming. I can find one where GG is trying to explain how he was trying to find help at the restaurant and stated he was panicked. Panicked about getting help. Not panicked while swimming. This CNN article states, "The prosecutor's office released a statement later Tuesday that provided some detail. The suspect told authorities that he had been snorkeling with Gardner behind Nanki Country Club when he signaled to her to swim back, the statement read. When the man reached the beach, the woman was nowhere to be found, he allegedly told them.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-10/...aruba-rental-car-facebook-message?_s=PM:WORLD

Discussing what the 'vast majority' do or don't do in a panic is a moot point: we don't know if they were really snorkling, we don't know if there was a riptide and we don't have evidence of GG's 'panic' while swimming. Also, discussing how '99% of people react' won't solve Robyn's case. And, again, I'd really like to see a link for how swim/snorkle/surf partners react statistically when one or both is caught in a riptide in the presence of the other. I'm not sure, but I would imagine some partners actually drown themselves, doing the wrong thing and trying to save their partner, panic or no. But as I can find no statistics on this, my estimation on how 'the vast majority' of people would react in this situation is as good as yours. :loser:

And did you see/hear any of those people who lifted the car interviewed? I did. I heard one on his cellphone saying he was afraid the car might blow up. Afterwards, a few others said they were afraid the car was going to blow up, but it was 'another human being' and they just went in and did it. Another was a father explained why he felt compelled to help despite the danger by saying, "I have a son, that was someone's son under there."
Just because you didn't perceive any immediate mortal danger to that car blowing up doesn't mean THEY didn't. And I could point you to hundreds of people on Setember 11th, who took the time to stop and help others while they themselves were trying to evactuate the building, running for their own lives.

Wouldn't one qualify GG at a minimum as a 'friend who would look out for her' as you mentioned above? She's his travel companion, they shared a bed, they're doing all their vacation activities together. At least a friend, right?Certainly his snorkling partner? Not a stranger. And, from what I understand of riptides, if he was actually in one and got to shore successfully, he knew enough to swim parallel to the shore to break out of it. (If he knew what to do, he likely wouldn't be as panicked as a riptide clueless person, if panicked at all.) You'd think once he'd broken free of this alleged riptide, he'd still have a ways to go to reach shore. Immediate emergency averted, he wouldn't think, "Cr@P! That was scary! Now where's Robyn?" not one single time after he broke from the rip? No? He'd just keep swimming, still out of his mind panicked and not once thinking, "I wonder if Robyn made it out"... until he got to shore?

Have a good day, all. Debating hypothetical situations and predicting panic behavior has done me in! :fence:

 

[LambChop]

Speaking of those worsening conditions, here's what they appeared like to police when they arrived. Really rough out there wasn't it.

View attachment 18672

If you goggle a map of Aruba you can see Baby Beach at the very tip of the Southwestern portion of the island. While you can see what appears to be calm on the surface the currents run very strong underneath and within a short distance the shelf drops off considerably into deeper ocean. So you have currents running one way on one side of the island and currents running another on the Western side of the island and those currents from the deeper portion of the sea all coming together under the water. It won't always be choppy on the surface only if there is a storm out at sea.

This is one of the main reasons people drown while on vacation there. It does not always look dangerous. If they put helicopters up and they have plenty right there a couple of miles up the road if she went under there and he reported it right away they would have found her. I really don't think she died there.

Did they leave the car there at the restaurant and walk to snorkel or was the car moved???? Anyone know??

FYI: You can't snorkel in sneakers. If you are swimming where there are currents you need flippers. It's why fish don't drown. I think the sneakers were wet because he had to get into the water to show they were snorkeling and could not do so without hurting his feet. jmo

 

[neesaki]

Not sure you would want to ruin a good pair of sneakers when you can buy beach shoes for about $10. Heavy sneakers can weigh you down when you are trying to swim.

Plus there is a lovely area for people to snorkel right near the Marriett. I mean it is right there. All the locals go there. Where they went at Baby Beach is dangerous on the other side of the breakers which is where it appears they went in. I don't know of anyone in their right mind who would go in with a pair of sneakers on.

Question if anyone knows, if RG cut her toe and they went back into the water and she disappeared how did the blood get next to the car???? jmo

This makes good sense to me, I just can't see any good reason why someone would go in the ocean w/ big leather sneakers, it just doesn't add up. They are much too heavy, especially when wet. I mean, they were supposedly on vacation and GG supposedly went prepared to snorkel so why wouldn't beach shoes be part of his snorkeling gear that he reportedly carried w/ him. Plus, if you're snorkeling you would use flippers anyway.

Also have wondered why they would want to leave that beautiful resort w/ private beach to go to that public area, not once but twice. I think it was HatesSociopaths that mentioned maybe GG had Robyn believing he was lookin for a place to do a photo shoot, which sounds like a possibility, otherwise what was his explaination to her that they revisited that area two days in a row? Could also explain why Robyn was all made up w/ her hair done as has been reported by witnesses. A woman doesn't just go get in the ocean and go snorkeling, after going through all the makeup and hair routine, believe me, it's way too much time and work.

I wonder about the blood by the car. If it's confirmed and proven to be Robyn's, did GG drug her, then cut her so she would bleed in order to draw the sharks when he threw her off into the sea?
Also, was the car parked at Baby Beach where the blood was found, or was it behind the restaurant in the rocky area?

 

[Dushi]

well I have read nothing about a riptide
A fear for his life is what I read...


According to Giordano, he and Robyn were snorkeling on Aug. 2 when Robyn didn't return to the Baby Beach shore. Giordano detailed a "fear for his life" that prompted him to keep swimming for shore and not look back for Gardner after signaling for her to follow him, per KTVU News.


http://www.examiner.com/criminal-pr...arch-gary-giordano-investigation-growing-legs


We only have his word on this
Witnesses say they never went into the water

 

[Magdalyn]

Yup, that sure looks real bad out there, Peliman, real bad for someone.

It's giving me a panic attack just looking at it. anic:

 

[kljohnson0458]

This is the last I'll comment on this, cause I'm sure we could go round and round and never agree...

Please, please, please, provide all of us a link that shows that GG's statement to police says they were fighting a riptide and fighting their individual ways to shore. A police statement that he 'swam for his life'. I can't find a single one. And I'm not talking about one where you infer panic while they were swimming. I can find one where GG is trying to explain how he was trying to find help at the restaurant and stated he was panicked. Panicked about getting help. Not panicked while swimming. This CNN article states, "The prosecutor's office released a statement later Tuesday that provided some detail. The suspect told authorities that he had been snorkeling with Gardner behind Nanki Country Club when he signaled to her to swim back, the statement read. When the man reached the beach, the woman was nowhere to be found, he allegedly told them.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-10/...aruba-rental-car-facebook-message?_s=PM:WORLD

Discussing what the 'vast majority' do or don't do in a panic is a moot point: we don't know if they were really snorkling, we don't know if there was a riptide and we don't have evidence of GG's 'panic' while swimming. Also, discussing how '99% of people react' won't solve Robyn's case. And, again, I'd really like to see a link for how swim/snorkle/surf partners react statistically when one or both is caught in a riptide in the presence of the other. I'm not sure, but I would imagine some partners actually drown themselves, doing the wrong thing and trying to save their partner, panic or no. But as I can find no statistics on this, my estimation on how 'the vast majority' of people would react in this situation is as good as yours. :loser:

And did you see/hear any of those people who lifted the car interviewed? I did. I heard one on his cellphone saying he was afraid the car might blow up. Afterwards, a few others said they were afraid the car was going to blow up, but it was 'another human being' and they just went in and did it. Another was a father explained why he felt compelled to help despite the danger by saying, "I have a son, that was someone's son under there."
Just because you didn't perceive any immediate mortal danger to that car blowing up doesn't mean THEY didn't. And I could point you to hundreds of people on Setember 11th, who took the time to stop and help others while they themselves were trying to evactuate the building, running for their own lives.

Wouldn't one qualify GG at a minimum as a 'friend who would look out for her' as you mentioned above? She's his travel companion, they shared a bed, they're doing all their vacation activities together. At least a friend, right?Certainly his snorkling partner? Not a stranger. And, from what I understand of riptides, if he was actually in one and got to shore successfully, he knew enough to swim parallel to the shore to break out of it. (If he knew what to do, he likely wouldn't be as panicked as a riptide clueless person, if panicked at all.) You'd think once he'd broken free of this alleged riptide, he'd still have a ways to go to reach shore. Immediate emergency averted, he wouldn't think, "Cr@P! That was scary! Now where's Robyn?" not one single time after he broke from the rip? No? He'd just keep swimming, still out of his mind panicked and not once thinking, "I wonder if Robyn made it out"... until he got to shore?

Have a good day, all. Debating hypothetical situations and predicting panic behavior has done me in! :fence:

:clap: Couldn't have said it better myself. I sure need a whole lot more than we've seen, heard and read (most of which was proven to be untrue) before I make a decision. Conjecture, surmising over and over makes it hard to read and find out if there is REAL news. Guess I'll keep an eye out on the news channels.

 

[Magdalyn]

well I have read nothing about a riptide
A fear for his life is what I read...


According to Giordano, he and Robyn were snorkeling on Aug. 2 when Robyn didn't return to the Baby Beach shore. Giordano detailed a "fear for his life" that prompted him to keep swimming for shore and not look back for Gardner after signaling for her to follow him, per KTVU News.


http://www.examiner.com/criminal-pr...arch-gary-giordano-investigation-growing-legs


We only have his word on this
Witnesses say they never went into the water

Interesting! I'm not finding that quote from any of the major media sources.... Thanks for finding it! And I agree, we only have his word that ANY of this happened the way he says, that they even went snorkling! :crazy:

 

[concentric]

Also have wondered why they would want to leave that beautiful resort w/ private beach to go to that public area, not once but twice. I think it was HatesSociopaths that mentioned maybe GG had Robyn believing he was lookin for a place to do a photo shoot, which sounds like a possibility, otherwise what was his explaination to her that they revisited that area two days in a row?

--------------

No, that was me who has been saying repeatedly from the beginning that he probably told her he was scouting areas for a photo shoot.

 

[Dushi]

This makes good sense to me, I just can't see any good reason why someone would go in the ocean w/ big leather sneakers, it just doesn't add up. They are much too heavy, especially when wet. I mean, they were supposedly on vacation and GG supposedly went prepared to snorkel so why wouldn't beach shoes be part of his snorkeling gear that he reportedly carried w/ him. Plus, if you're snorkeling you would use flippers anyway.

Also have wondered why they would want to leave that beautiful resort w/ private beach to go to that public area, not once but twice. I think it was HatesSociopaths that mentioned maybe GG had Robyn believing he was lookin for a place to do a photo shoot, which sounds like a possibility, otherwise what was his explaination to her that they revisited that area two days in a row? Could also explain why Robyn was all made up w/ her hair done as has been reported by witnesses. A woman doesn't just go get in the ocean and go snorkeling, after going through all the makeup and hair routine, believe me, it's way too much time and work.

I wonder about the blood by the car. If it's confirmed and proven to be Robyn's, did GG drug her, then cut her so she would bleed in order to draw the sharks when he threw her off into the sea?
Also, was the car parked at Baby Beach where the blood was found, or was it behind the restaurant in the rocky area?

I really wouldn't read too much into the fact that they left the resort, people do it all of the time
Rather boring to visit a new place and not explore it.

As far as the second visit to the restaurant/beach, it seems a bit suspicious to me but as someone said, maybe they wanted to eat there and it was closed the first day


About the blood
It was reported early on that bloodly hand print had been found on a rock near the car.
Then it was reported there was no bloody hand print
I don't know if that meant no bloody hand print or no blood
Its not clear to me


After the blood was reported, GG then said she cut her toe :banghead:

 

[neesaki]

--------------

No, that was me who has been saying repeatedly from the beginning that he probably told her he was scouting areas for a photo shoot.

Oops, sorry concentric, thanks for the correction:doh:

 

[Peliman]

If you goggle a map of Aruba you can see Baby Beach at the very tip of the Southwestern portion of the island. While you can see what appears to be calm on the surface the currents run very strong underneath and within a short distance the shelf drops off considerably into deeper ocean. So you have currents running one way on one side of the island and currents running another on the Western side of the island and those currents from the deeper portion of the sea all coming together under the water. It won't always be choppy on the surface only if there is a storm out at sea.

This is one of the main reasons people drown while on vacation there. It does not always look dangerous. If they put helicopters up and they have plenty right there a couple of miles up the road if she went under there and he reported it right away they would have found her. I really don't think she died there.

Did they leave the car there at the restaurant and walk to snorkel or was the car moved???? Anyone know?? jmo

I tend to agree she didn't disappear in those waters, I think she would have been found also. Even if she sank to the bottom after drowning, she should have surfaced in about two days from decomp gases especially being in salt water.

Just curious because you seem to have some experience with those waters. Those that have drown, have their bodies been recovered? Are you PADI?

Also IMO the waters didn't look rough enough to cause riptide but of course I wasn't there.

Regarding driving vs. walking, it maybe both. I've read the following.

"The last person to see Robyn Gardner and Gary Giordano together was the owner of a dive shop on Aruba who noticed their car far out on a rocky point of the island which he thought was an unlikely place to be snorkeling."

He later saw Giordano's rental car at the tip of a rocky path leading out to the ocean, and said he thought at the time how unusual it was to see people snorkeling at that spot.

Stein has said that there were apparent gaps in time between when witnesses saw the pair on the beach and the timeline Giordano gave when he reported Gardner missing."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/aruba-dive-shop-owner-person-robyn-gardner/story?id=14315628

 

[neesaki]

As far as the second visit to the restaurant/beach, it seems a bit suspicious to me but as someone said, maybe they wanted to eat there and it was closed the first day

Was a Monday the first day I think, so maybe closed on Mondays? Otherwise, I was thinking they were seen there about the same time both days, like in the 3:15 to 3:45 range and the restaurant was open then on Tuesday. Will see if I can find this somewhere.

 

[Dushi]

Was a Monday the first day I think, so maybe closed on Mondays? Otherwise, I was thinking they were seen there about the same time both days, like in the 3:15 to 3:45 range and the restaurant was open then on Tuesday. Will see if I can find this somewhere.

Yes, it was reported in the latest video showing them on the beach the day before that the restaurant was closed
Around the same time

 

[Peliman]

Just to clear something up I've heard. I heard the resturant GG went to for help was closed. I haven't been able to verify the resturants hours of operation though. Anyone know?

 

[concentric]

I tend to agree she didn't disappear in those waters, I think she would have been found also. Even if she sank to the bottom after drowning, she should have surfaced in about two days from decomp gases especially being in salt water.QUOTE]
--------------
And, who the heck goes snorkeling without flippers??? At least one of those flippers she had worn would have floated up or around that area. And, there was no sign that he had flippers for her to begin with.

Sorry, not buying that they went snorkeling there. Been scuba diving too much to believe it.

 

[Dushi]

Just to clear something up I've heard. I heard the resturant GG went to for help was closed. I haven't been able to verify the resturants hours of operation though. Anyone know?

Yes, Thats what i read.
When he went for help the restaurant was closed but they had a late lunch there that day

 

[neesaki]

Just to clear something up I've heard. I heard the resturant GG went to for help was closed. I haven't been able to verify the resturants hours of operation though. Anyone know?

It was closed later which was sometime after 6 pm I think, when RG disappeared and GG went there for "help", but it was open earlier because they ate there and then left a little after 4:00 pm.:loser:

 

[Dushi]

I don;t know if anyone has seen this...

http://bentpage.wordpress.com/tag/rum-reef/