ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[Dushi]

I really hate to say it (my dad was a cop and I give LE a lot of leeway), but I am coming to the same conclusions about Aruba LE that I had in the NH case. They are complete .

Why is that?

How many unsolved murders are there where you live?

We really don't know what they have to work with, if anything

I am not even sure a murder happened

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Why is that?

How many unsolved murders are there where you live?

We really don't know what they have to work with, if anything

I am not even sure a murder happened

I dunno. You're right, of course. Still, they had blood and other evidence for a month before deciding to send it out for analysis? In a case where everything points to a death, if not a homicide? That just strikes me as bizarre.

 

[neesaki]

Came across this report from yesterday about GG:
http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/lo...rganized-retail-theft-operation#ixzz1YjAg4OLZ

 

[LambChop]

I dunno. You're right, of course. Still, they had blood and other evidence for a month before deciding to send it out for analysis? In a case where everything points to a death, if not a homicide? That just strikes me as bizarre.

You have to understand Aruba is a very, very, very small island. It's 21 miles long and 2 miles wide. Most of their income is from tourists. Their justice system is different than ours because you really have to prove there was a crime and evidence has to be strong. That being said their investigation started with a report of an accidental drowning. Because GG tried to leave without telling LE and acted as if he were hiding something their law allows them to detain him and put him under arrest. As their investigation progressed I would think at some point they had reached a decision that this could be a homicide and not an accident as GG reported. Why pay for tests if the judge ruled it was accidential?

Now JB, if he did his homework, should have reported to the media in the US that this is normal in Aruba to hold someone and does not mean they are guilty just that there is a reason to believe things did not happen the way GG claims. I would imagine his version of the facts just do not line up.

Without a doubt it would be very, very easy to get rid of someone on that island. In some areas the cliffs are quite high and if someone were to get too close to the edge it's adios amigo. It's not like some islands where it is all beaches and the eastern part of the island the water is quite rough with very strong currents. You never see anyone swimming there. And it is not uncommon to hear that someone drowned there because they did not heed the warnings.

I think GG's strange behavior is what alerted the police that this was not just another drowning. jmo

 

[Dushi]

IMO there are three things that the LE has had to figure out

Was it an accidental death?

Was it a murder?

Was it insurance fraud?

I feel they have looked at all three scenarios

He is being held under suspicion of all of the above IIRC

 

[neesaki]

You have to understand Aruba is a very, very, very small island. It's 21 miles long and 2 miles wide. Most of their income is from tourists. Their justice system is different than ours because you really have to prove there was a crime and evidence has to be strong. That being said their investigation started with a report of an accidental drowning. Because GG tried to leave without telling LE and acted as if he were hiding something their law allows them to detain him and put him under arrest. As their investigation progressed I would think at some point they had reached a decision that this could be a homicide and not an accident as GG reported. Why pay for tests if the judge ruled it was accidential?

Now JB, if he did his homework, should have reported to the media in the US that this is normal in Aruba to hold someone and does not mean they are guilty just that there is a reason to believe things did not happen the way GG claims. I would imagine his version of the facts just do not line up.

Without a doubt it would be very, very easy to get rid of someone on that island. In some areas the cliffs are quite high and if someone were to get too close to the edge it's adios amigo. It's not like some islands where it is all beaches and the eastern part of the island the water is quite rough with very strong currents. You never see anyone swimming there. And it is not uncommon to hear that someone drowned there because they did not heed the warnings.

I think GG's strange behavior is what alerted the police that this was not just another drowning. jmo

My Bolding.

It seemed they early on suspected foul play, more than just an accident. So it's just hard to understand why they waited so long to send these items to be tested? I think I read in one report it was because they didn't have the money, wow. And I don't get how a judge could rule it an accident before the forensics were even done? :waitasec:

 

[Dushi]

My Bolding.

It seemed they early on suspected foul play, more than just an accident. So it's just hard to understand why they waited so long to send these items to be tested? I think I read in one report it was because they didn't have the money, wow. And I don't get how a judge could rule it an accident before the forensics were even done? :waitasec:

he has made no ruling

The blood forensics will tell them if it is Robyns and maybe if drugs were taken?

It will not prove if she was given them or took them herself

 

[neesaki]

he has made no ruling

(my bolding)

The "ruling" comment was in reference to LambChops posted statement:

"Why pay for tests if the judge ruled it was accidential? "

 

[Dushi]

(my bolding)

The "ruling" comment was in reference to LambChops posted statement:

"Why pay for tests if the judge ruled it was accidential? "

And you have a point

I think and this is OMO that its possiblity at first, LE may have thought it was simply an accident.
No one took her computer etc. in the beginning. The rental car was returned.


But as of now, there is no ruling in this case

 

[Niner]

Does anyone know where the report about a fight between GG and RF came from? I don't remember it.
Also, can anyone enlighten me on wht "the 16" is?

the "the 16" refers to a date - as in "on the 16th" per reports from RF. That was discussed a few pages back.
regarding the fight - now THAT might be an error - I tried to search for that, since I was the one to put it on the TimeLine, but came up with nil... :maddening: that might be a typo - re the RF could be RG - maybe HatesSciopaths can help, as she posted the "original timeline" back on thread #2 - post 49 I believe it was! :crazy:

 

[Niner]

Does anyone recall 'when' GG called the Insurance place?? was that 2 days after she disappeared? Like August 4th - I was going to put that one the timeline.

 

[neesaki]

the "the 16" refers to a date - as in "on the 16th" per reports from RF. That was discussed a few pages back.
regarding the fight - now THAT might be an error - I tried to search for that, since I was the one to put it on the TimeLine, but came up with nil... :maddening: that might be a typo - re the RF could be RG - maybe HatesSciopaths can help, as she posted the "original timeline" back on thread #2 - post 49 I believe it was! :crazy:

"the 16. I can communicate here." was the facebook post Robyn allegedly sent to RF. Am I missing something, how is that referencing a date. Was this discussed in this thread as I don't remember it.

 

[LambChop]

"the 16. I can communicate here." was the facebook post Robyn allegedly sent to RF. Am I missing something, how is that referencing a date. Was this discussed in this thread as I don't remember it.

Maybe it was just an answer to a question such as "when is your next appointment......when will you be back to work...", etc.

 

[LambChop]

(my bolding)

The "ruling" comment was in reference to LambChops posted statement:

"Why pay for tests if the judge ruled it was accidential? "

The judge decides whether or not to keep GG in custody. The judge could have determined after police investigated that this was an accident and that GG could go home. GG was jailed for trying to leave during an investigation without clearing it with the police so they arrested him. In Aruba they don't need a lot to hold you there for 30 days. Before the 30 days were up the judge determined there was enough evidence to suspect foul play and at that point the blood and her computer were sent off. The judge could have just as well let GG go and said there wasn't enough to hold him, let him go and the testing would not have been necessary.

As I said they do things differently there. Once you are in jail, you are in jail you don't get bonded out. But you can only be held for so long and then they have to either let you go, or charge you and you go to trial. Very different than the way we do things here. jmo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

"the 16" was referring to a date according to RF. I asked him and he wrote me back with that info. He didn't say what the date was.

 

[concentric]

"the 16. I can communicate here." was the facebook post Robyn allegedly sent to RF. Am I missing something, how is that referencing a date. Was this discussed in this thread as I don't remember it.

Yes, we've tried to discuss that numerous times. And I believe that some of the letters of that message were transposed, leading one to contemplate: why? Is it a Freudian slip? A hurried communication in fear of being discovered? Exhaustion? Or, just sloppy?

Why is it always up to some of us to go back and retrieve those posts repeatedly, sigh. Fine, I'll go back and retrieve the ACTUAL wording, because communicate was misspelled, as communictate or something, and that means that the word: can, may actually be can't.

Also, "the 16" -- why not say "the 16th", if it is a date. And furthermore, RF, needs to explain.

For all of my impatience and frustration with various cases, the ones who truly suffer the most are the victims and their families.

 

[suniskye]

I really hate to say it (my dad was a cop and I give LE a lot of leeway), but I am coming to the same conclusions about Aruba LE that I had in the NH case. <modsnip>.

I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Her very close friend went there and came back and said she has faith in them after speaking with them.

The difference here I think is that it involves two americans. In Natalee's case, the father of the culprit was an Aruban Judge.

I don't feel they have searched enough. I do not understand why they only searched one day and, they never brought dogs in.

 

[LambChop]

I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Her very close friend went there and came back and said she has faith in them after speaking with them.

The difference here I think is that it involves two americans. In Natalee's case, the father of the culprit was an Aruban Judge.

I don't feel they have searched enough. I do not understand why they only searched one day and, they never brought dogs in.

Joran's father was not a judge. He was an attorney who was in the process of being appointed as a judge but I don't think he ever made it.

Not sure where they would search. The island is flat, flat, flat. Any body left on the eastern coastal area would have been found because the rocks are large and molten in most places. There would be no where to hide her. And the Arubans are not going to hide her.

Not sure dogs would do any good on that end of the island. NH was last seen on the opposite end where there are primarily beaches, hotels and homes. GG and RG have been reported by a witness as getting in the car and leaving after about 20 minutes on the beach. That leaves an hour and 40 minutes. If RG went off into the deeper water area her body could have been caught in the currents and taken out to sea. But I think the officials are pretty sure she did not go into the water there. The shelf only goes out a short distance and then drops into the deeper part of the sea. My guess is GG may have been hoping her body would surface the following day.

Funny he wanted her to go on a cruise and with all the people lately who have been reported falling overboard it's too weird. If she liked to drink I think she would have been an easy target.

Another thing that is disturbing. They went there to snorkel and where do they go but the restaurant to eat lunch at 3pm?? They brought their own drinks. Why would they not have just gone to the beach and drank their drinks there, snorkeled and driven anywhere to eat? At 3pm you are burning daylight. But they were seen at that location to establish they had been there. Now an eye witness says they left in the car and GG claims no they were there the whole time but that story does not fit. The person seeing them leave had no horse in the race, assuming, so their observations are probably correct. So where did GG go at 4:20 in the afternoon. If he went back towards San Nicholas why would they travel back again 2 hours later when they'd be headed back in the direction of the hotel. The only other place to go where there is water is up the eastern side of the coast, maybe for a little ride. So what were they doing for one hour and 40 minutes? This is what makes no sense. jmo

 

[neesaki]

Joran's father was not a judge. He was an attorney who was in the process of being appointed as a judge but I don't think he ever made it.

Not sure where they would search. The island is flat, flat, flat. Any body left on the eastern coastal area would have been found because the rocks are large and molten in most places. There would be no where to hide her. And the Arubans are not going to hide her.

Not sure dogs would do any good on that end of the island. NH was last seen on the opposite end where there are primarily beaches, hotels and homes. GG and RG have been reported by a witness as getting in the car and leaving after about 20 minutes on the beach. That leaves an hour and 40 minutes. If RG went off into the deeper water area her body could have been caught in the currents and taken out to sea. But I think the officials are pretty sure she did not go into the water there. The shelf only goes out a short distance and then drops into the deeper part of the sea. My guess is GG may have been hoping her body would surface the following day.

Funny he wanted her to go on a cruise and with all the people lately who have been reported falling overboard it's too weird. If she liked to drink I think she would have been an easy target.

Another thing that is disturbing. They went there to snorkel and where do they go but the restaurant to eat lunch at 3pm?? They brought their own drinks. Why would they not have just gone to the beach and drank their drinks there, snorkeled and driven anywhere to eat? At 3pm you are burning daylight. But they were seen at that location to establish they had been there. Now an eye witness says they left in the car and GG claims no they were there the whole time but that story does not fit. The person seeing them leave had no horse in the race, assuming, so their observations are probably correct. So where did GG go at 4:20 in the afternoon. If he went back towards San Nicholas why would they travel back again 2 hours later when they'd be headed back in the direction of the hotel. The only other place to go where there is water is up the eastern side of the coast, maybe for a little ride. So what were they doing for one hour and 40 minutes? This is what makes no sense. jmo

My Bolding. I think you're right, ALE decided after several thorough searches and who knows that small island better than they do, that search dogs were of no benefit. Mainly, though, because for whatever reason they decided after they found no evidence on land, that she had to be in the water.

Now that you mention the cruise, it is weird. How easy would that have been?

It makes more sense than anything to me that GG took Robyn to that restaurant for a reason, as you say, to establish they had been there as a happy, normal, couple w/ no problems. He in fact went out of his way according to one witness, who thought it was strange that he jumped up and introduced themselves by name.

 

[suniskye]

Joran's father was not a judge. He was an attorney who was in the process of being appointed as a judge but I don't think he ever made it.

Not sure where they would search. The island is flat, flat, flat. Any body left on the eastern coastal area would have been found because the rocks are large and molten in most places. There would be no where to hide her. And the Arubans are not going to hide her.

Not sure dogs would do any good on that end of the island. NH was last seen on the opposite end where there are primarily beaches, hotels and homes. GG and RG have been reported by a witness as getting in the car and leaving after about 20 minutes on the beach. That leaves an hour and 40 minutes. If RG went off into the deeper water area her body could have been caught in the currents and taken out to sea. But I think the officials are pretty sure she did not go into the water there. The shelf only goes out a short distance and then drops into the deeper part of the sea. My guess is GG may have been hoping her body would surface the following day.

Funny he wanted her to go on a cruise and with all the people lately who have been reported falling overboard it's too weird. If she liked to drink I think she would have been an easy target.

Another thing that is disturbing. They went there to snorkel and where do they go but the restaurant to eat lunch at 3pm?? They brought their own drinks. Why would they not have just gone to the beach and drank their drinks there, snorkeled and driven anywhere to eat? At 3pm you are burning daylight. But they were seen at that location to establish they had been there. Now an eye witness says they left in the car and GG claims no they were there the whole time but that story does not fit. The person seeing them leave had no horse in the race, assuming, so their observations are probably correct. So where did GG go at 4:20 in the afternoon. If he went back towards San Nicholas why would they travel back again 2 hours later when they'd be headed back in the direction of the hotel. The only other place to go where there is water is up the eastern side of the coast, maybe for a little ride. So what were they doing for one hour and 40 minutes? This is what makes no sense. jmo

I think the fact that he kept refilling the cups (cheap date by the way) tells us that they probably drank from the minute they woke up until they went to bed, while they were on that island. I find a few things strange. First, didn't they go to the pool, go to the beach, do any of the normal things a tourist on an island does? They were not seen doing anything normal for the 2 days prior to the day she disappeared. Was it just a drink fest? I mean, no one has said they've seen them do anything except the first night at that party and then at the Rum Reef. Secondly, every picture taken of her shows her wearing the same darn dress. I find it weird. Maybe he liked it and told her to wear it over and over again because most women would not do that. Even if it were a beach cover up, you don't wear it during the day and at night. Women don't do that.

I've never been to Aruba. I decided not to after Natalee Holloway, so I know nothing about that island. Could he have pushed her over a cliff somewhere?