ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[AuburnSchnauzer]

But the crime was committed in Aruba, not the U.S.
No body? It's well established it seems, that it's quite easy to get rid of a body in Aruba due to the ocean, the tides, etc. So when there's no body there's no crime? When someone is thrown out to sea for their body to be washed away or eaten by sharks? :waitasec:

I do hope that Aruba is cooperative w/ the US authorities, but I also hope that Aruba maintains it's responsibility in seeing the prosecution of this case through to the end, JMO.

________________

Schnauzers Rule !!! Aruba has their own rules and they ARE NOT favorable to American tourists.....

 

[suniskye]

Aruba is very cooperative with the US govenment and it would not surprise me if they just turn him over to Federal authorities if the grand jury decides to indict him. I really don't think they want to deal with him because there is no body, at least not yet. jmo

Yes, I have even thought that perhaps it is all part of a greater plan. I'm thinking that the plan is to hand him over to his own country and they are working together to that end. We have not heard what they have found on his hard drives ... who knows but, I do think they are working together so that they can hand him over.

 

[suniskye]

So...cooperative with the US government...but lazy?

Sorry. No slight meant. Or maybe there is. I have been offended by Aruban LE since the NH case, and sadly nothing happening here has changed that. Other than perhaps making it worse, since things really should have improved by now.

They sent out divers. Yeah. How many days after she disappeared? And I saw the pics, obviously made for PR purposes. A handful of guys in semi-choppy seas with diving gear. Did they really expect to find anything that way? There? Come on?

They waited 30 days to send out the iPad and a blood sample for forensic analysis? All the while, stating that this is a potential homicide? Huh?

There's no excuse for this kind of thing, really. There's plenty of money on that island to fund decent LE, if it was a priority. Apart from the tourism itself, the gambling is a huge source of income. In fact, the gambling, and the culture it fosters and people it attracts, are the main reason I've never wanted to go there, even long before NH (and I've traveled a lot in the Caribbean).

Sorry, don't mean to vent, and I mean no disrespect to any posters here. But seriously, these are major issues with this case, imo.

Money shouldn't be an issue in a murder investigation. If worse comes to worse, they could have given the blood samples and ipod to the FBI who would have had answers for them by now.

They have not learned that time is of the essence there. That's the difference between here and there.

I personally do not think it has a thing to do with the insurance policy. Call me stupid but, I do not think there was time for him to plan such a complicated thing because the trip had not been planned well in advance. I'm thinking she got up from the table to go to the bathroom that day and while in the bathroom sent Richard the I love you text and he somehow saw it and went off. It's been proven (hearsay) that he was controlling in relationships. Here he went and paid to take her there and she was sending I love you messages to another man. He's the type that would really go off about that. Just my opinion. I mean, did he even know about Richard? Maybe he didn't. Who knows.

 

[suniskye]

I still don't understand why a woman would want to go to Aruba after what happened to our Natalee.....

We don't know what happened. In all the videos I watched, she appeared to be DRUNK. She was wearing what I call a light dress that could have had a bikini on underneath. I've heard that earlier that day, there were Bloody Mary's ordered at their room.....I'm guessing the drinking continued ALL DAY. Do we know if food was ordered or eaten during the day or at the seaside restaurant where they were last seen?

She may not have even known about Natalee. Some people I know never watch the news and have no knowledge of that.

I read that the waiter at the Rum Reef said she hardly touched her salad so they did order food.

It was a strange vacation ... they never did the things someone on vacation and who is a tourist do. Otherwise, people would have said oh I saw them at the pool, etc.

If you look at the pictures, most of them show him walking ahead of her, they are rarely walking together (which people who are happy to be together do). Also, most of the close up shots of her do not show a happy face. I'm thinking she probably regretted being there once she got there and was trying to make the best of it. I've been in the position where I've made a choice to go somewhere and regretted it. Once there, all I could think about was the people that were somewhere else that I'd rather be with. It's not a good position to be in especially if the person you're with is a loon who goes ballistic that you have to walk on eggs around.

 

[suniskye]

I feel really bad about this whole case. I know that Robyn Gardner made a bad choice but I feel that she was mixed up and hurting and that's why she did; we have all done that at one time or another and she was vulnerable because of that.

I'm thinking she and RF may have had a major blow out right before she decided to go on this trip and he's feeling alot of guilt right now because of it and, that's why she made the spur of the moment decision to go.

I do not think they were engaged (RF and RG) as the news says. I really think he is regretting alot of things right now.

 

[Dushi]

She may not have even known about Natalee. Some people I know never watch the news and have no knowledge of that.

I read that the waiter at the Rum Reef said she hardly touched her salad so they did order food.

It was a strange vacation ... they never did the things someone on vacation and who is a tourist do. Otherwise, people would have said oh I saw them at the pool, etc.
If you look at the pictures, most of them show him walking ahead of her, they are rarely walking together (which people who are happy to be together do). Also, most of the close up shots of her do not show a happy face. I'm thinking she probably regretted being there once she got there and was trying to make the best of it. I've been in the position where I've made a choice to go somewhere and regretted it. Once there, all I could think about was the people that were somewhere else that I'd rather be with. It's not a good position to be in especially if the person you're with is a loon who goes ballistic that you have to walk on eggs around.

Bolded by me

Up until late last week, nobody knew about them being at the Chilbeach Bash and there were many photos posted.

With all due respect, we don't know who saw them or where they saw them
We don't know how they spent the rest of their time.
And we do not know what information LE has about their whereabouts.


As far as whether Robyn looked happy?
I guess everyone will see that differently, but personally, I do not see an unhappy person
She looked like she was enjoying herself IMO

 

[Peliman]

Bolded by me

Up until late last week, nobody knew about them being at the Chilbeach Bash and there were many photos posted.

With all due respect, we don't know who saw them or where they saw them
We don't know how they spent the rest of their time.
And we do not know what information LE has about their whereabouts.


As far as whether Robyn looked happy?
I guess everyone will see that differently, but personally, I do not see an unhappy person
She looked like she was enjoying herself IMO

Appearances can be deceiving, speaking for myself if I'm not particually happy with a situation I won't be showing my displeasure unless I fear for my safety or the need arises. If I were her I'd be trying to make the best of it, she did agree to go although she had doubts about the person she went with. JMO

 

[Peliman]

Travelling abroad

State dept. Country Specific Information on Aruba

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html#crime

Just my observations over time about Aruba is it could be a fun place to visit I don't think they are equipped to handle a major crime investigation as they would in the U.S. as is true for many overseas destinations.

If true, reports are her IPAD and whatever blood was found was not sent for analysis for a month after she went missing. Even if it was a money issue for Aruban LE, I'm sure the F.B.I would have provided those services unless there was some legal issue regarding prosecution.

Regarding trained dogs in Aruba, I just don't think their available in Aruba. Of course I could be wrong but lets take the N.H. case. Why would N.H. father send a cadaver dog to Aruba if one was available?

Natalee Holloway's Father Sends Search Dog to Aruba to Look for Daughter's Body.

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruba Prosecutors' Office, said the dog is searching a small reservoir in northwestern Aruba that witnesses have previously identified as a location where Holloway's remains might be found.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509967,00.html#ixzz1Z3rf5Ruv

Personally I think teams (plural) of cadaver dogs should do a complete search of this so called "small" island including trash dumps but that's a different story.

So my view of traveling to Aruba is it seems like a nice place to vacation but compared to U.S. standards of LE, it's not quite there yet and travel there is much safer than say Mexico at the moment. I know whenever I travel abroad I try and read up on what I'm getting into. For example I've read in Mexico if you're involved in a vehicle accident, when LE arrives they will arrest everyone at the scene, which is why most people leave the scene of an accident.

So all overseas travel should come with the following advisory.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Regarding this case, I've also noticed confirmed in country specific state dept info. The emergency line in Aruba is 911.

So unless GG had no signal he should/could have called 911 for help from his own phone. Unless he had no signal there would be no excuse IMO.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Travelling abroad

State dept. Country Specific Information on Aruba

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html#crime

Just my observations over time about Aruba is it could be a fun place to visit I don't think they are equipped to handle a major crime investigation as they would in the U.S. as is true for many overseas destinations.

If true, reports are her IPAD and whatever blood was found was not sent for analysis for a month after she went missing. Even if it was a money issue for Aruban LE, I'm sure the F.B.I would have provided those services unless there was some legal issue regarding prosecution.

Regarding trained dogs in Aruba, I just don't think their available in Aruba. Of course I could be wrong but lets take the N.H. case. Why would N.H. father send a cadaver dog to Aruba if one was available?



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509967,00.html#ixzz1Z3rf5Ruv

Personally I think teams (plural) of cadaver dogs should do a complete search of this so called "small" island including trash dumps but that's a different story.

So my view of traveling to Aruba is it seems like a nice place to vacation but compared to U.S. standards of LE, it's not quite there yet and travel there is much safer than say Mexico at the moment. I know whenever I travel abroad I try and read up on what I'm getting into. For example I've read in Mexico if you're involved in a vehicle accident, when LE arrives they will arrest everyone at the scene, which is why most people leave the scene of an accident.

So all overseas travel should come with the following advisory.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Regarding this case, I've also noticed confirmed in country specific state dept info. The emergency line in Aruba is 911.

So unless GG had no signal he should/could have called 911 for help from his own phone. Unless he had no signal there would be no excuse IMO.

Well said, I totally agree. I have never understood why anyone would vacation in Aruba, other than people who want to go gambling. It's a scrubby little island, with sharks (land and sea), currents and cliffs. I have alwasy envisioned it as a party atmosphere for high-rollers and wannabees. There are so many gorgeous islands in the Caribbean, why go there? One would think the local government would have a very strong interest in promoting good impressions of the island. And after Natalee, that should have become an even greater priority.

I have read that poor enforcement of local laws was a contributing factor in Natalee's death -- that is, local laws limiting how often residents can visit casinos are not enforced, and thus JVS was constantly in and out of them. And that's how he found Natalee. I don't have any personal knowledge on that, but I find it credible.

And now, with the Natalee case still very much in everyone's memory, here they are botching another murder investigation.

No...you can keep Aruba, thank you very much.

 

[Dushi]

Well said, I totally agree. I have never understood why anyone would vacation in Aruba, other than people who want to go gambling. It's a scrubby little island, with sharks (land and sea), currents and cliffs. I have alwasy envisioned it as a party atmosphere for high-rollers and wannabees. There are so many gorgeous islands in the Caribbean, why go there? One would think the local government would have a very strong interest in promoting good impressions of the island. And after Natalee, that should have become an even greater priority.

I have read that poor enforcement of local laws was a contributing factor in Natalee's death -- that is, local laws limiting how often residents can visit casinos are not enforced, and thus JVS was constantly in and out of them. And that's how he found Natalee. I don't have any personal knowledge on that, but I find it credible.

And now, with the Natalee case still very much in everyone's memory, here they are botching another murder investigation.

No...you can keep Aruba, thank you very much.

LOL

I guess your experience with Aruba has been different than mine.

I am neither a high roller or a wannabe

Nor am I a party animal, well past that point in life

I appreciate your right to an opinion

I do not appreciate your opinion of those who love the Island and her people

You rule out gambling, partying and crime in your choices of vacation spots

You must be very limited when choosing a destination

 

[Just-a-Guy]

LOL

I guess your experience with Aruba has been different than mine.

I am neither a high roller or a wannabe

Nor am I a party animal, well past that point in life

I appreciate your right to an opinion

I do not appreciate your opinion of those who love the Island and her people

You rule out gambling, partying and crime in your choices of vacation spots

You must be very limited when choosing a destination

Sorry, Dushi, I didn't mean any disrespect. I know you like Aruba and I am certain it has wonderful qualities that justify that. I was venting a bit. Really, I know people can find good things everywhere, because there are good things everywhere.

Just FYI, I don't "rule out" all those things. I do try to avoid high crime destinations (some places in the Carib qualify, clearly). I do not generally go places where gambling exists, that's about the only thing I "rule out", and that's just a personal thing. I have friends who gamble. I just don't enjoy the culture I generally find around casinos etc. That's just me. As for "partying", I am a quiet person, and I prefer quiet places. Always been that way.

I have spent significant chunks of my life living in "resort" areas, and I think I have a strong understanding of the mixed, often conflicting, forces at work in such places. I am sympathetic to the people of Aruba. I imagine the vast majority are good people. Just like everywhere else.

 

[LambChop]

Sorry, Dushi, I didn't mean any disrespect. I know you like Aruba and I am certain it has wonderful qualities that justify that. I was venting a bit. Really, I know people can find good things everywhere, because there are good things everywhere.

Just FYI, I don't "rule out" all those things. I do try to avoid high crime destinations (some places in the Carib qualify, clearly). I do not generally go places where gambling exists, that's about the only thing I "rule out", and that's just a personal thing. I have friends who gamble. I just don't enjoy the culture I generally find around casinos etc. That's just me. As for "partying", I am a quiet person, and I prefer quiet places. Always been that way.

I have spent significant chunks of my life living in "resort" areas, and I think I have a strong understanding of the mixed, often conflicting, forces at work in such places. I am sympathetic to the people of Aruba. I imagine the vast majority are good people. Just like everywhere else.

The Dutch have a strong influence in Aruba because it was originally ruled by them. The native Arubans are very nice and friendly. I do not gamble and always said I worked too hard for my money to throw it away. I, too, never wanted to go there but my husband talked me into it. That was almost 30 years ago. He passed seven years ago and I still go. I am sometimes there by myself but feel perfectly safe. The same people return every year to the small resort condo where I stay and it is very quite and peaceful. The beach and the aqua waters are my favorite. Dining there is an experience from getting a hamburger at McDonald's to an expensive Argentine beef steak at El Gaucho which is to die for. It is safe there and if you look in your paper today and see where someone was shot and killed locally the chances of you seeing that in Aruba are slim to none.

The govenment is run differently there and follows the rules of the Dutch government. It's not that they are lazy, it's a matter of their procedures, rules regarding evidence are different than ours. The only way off the island is by boat or plane so if you are involved in an investigation and you try to leave without permission there is a good chance you will land in jail and they can keep you there until a judge decides whether or not you will be charged. My guess is they kept the rock and ipad until the judge made the decision that there was enough evidence to hold him. That is how they do it. My guess, too, is that LE does not make the decision to send the blood samples off to Holland, the judge does.

Just because their rules and procedures are different than ours does not mean they are lazy. They are anything but, as I have seen those officers standing out in the heat 90 plus with their radar guns on the back roads where the locals tend to speed.

Not so easy to prove guilt when there is no evidence which is pretty much what happened to NH.

Also I have been to many other Caribbean islands and I think Aruba is about the safest. Don't let the casinos bother you because you can avoid them and still have a good time. jmo

 

[concentric]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/robyn-gard...act-missing-maryland-womans/story?id=14551884

Who took this photo? There is a distinct disconnect between the two at that moment, what they are individually experiencing, thinking or responding to. As far as I can discern, they are not responding to one another. So, I'm wondering who they were "posing" for?

 

[suniskye]

Travelling abroad

State dept. Country Specific Information on Aruba

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html#crime

Just my observations over time about Aruba is it could be a fun place to visit I don't think they are equipped to handle a major crime investigation as they would in the U.S. as is true for many overseas destinations.

If true, reports are her IPAD and whatever blood was found was not sent for analysis for a month after she went missing. Even if it was a money issue for Aruban LE, I'm sure the F.B.I would have provided those services unless there was some legal issue regarding prosecution.

Regarding trained dogs in Aruba, I just don't think their available in Aruba. Of course I could be wrong but lets take the N.H. case. Why would N.H. father send a cadaver dog to Aruba if one was available?



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509967,00.html#ixzz1Z3rf5Ruv

Personally I think teams (plural) of cadaver dogs should do a complete search of this so called "small" island including trash dumps but that's a different story.

So my view of traveling to Aruba is it seems like a nice place to vacation but compared to U.S. standards of LE, it's not quite there yet and travel there is much safer than say Mexico at the moment. I know whenever I travel abroad I try and read up on what I'm getting into. For example I've read in Mexico if you're involved in a vehicle accident, when LE arrives they will arrest everyone at the scene, which is why most people leave the scene of an accident.

So all overseas travel should come with the following advisory.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Regarding this case, I've also noticed confirmed in country specific state dept info. The emergency line in Aruba is 911.

So unless GG had no signal he should/could have called 911 for help from his own phone. Unless he had no signal there would be no excuse IMO.

I have learned through mistakes with regard to safety on vacations. I'd never step foot on Puerto Rico again. When our ship stopped at Domincan Republic I never got off.....read too many bad things about it. I personally have absolutely no desire to ever return to Mexico, ever either. When I was at the bahamas, my husband and I watched young drunk women going up and down to the rooms with the locals. The locals thrive on that.

When you're in another country, you have to be on your best behavior and trust no one. No one as in not even your cab driver.

 

[suniskye]

Appearances can be deceiving, speaking for myself if I'm not particually happy with a situation I won't be showing my displeasure unless I fear for my safety or the need arises. If I were her I'd be trying to make the best of it, she did agree to go although she had doubts about the person she went with. JMO

Ditto. I try to make the best of a bad situation.

In Robyn's case, she was in another country with a nut that she didn't want to give any reason to go off. She had seen what happens when he gets angry. She made a mistake going with him. It cost her her life. So sad.

 

[suniskye]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/robyn-gard...act-missing-maryland-womans/story?id=14551884

Who took this photo? There is a distinct disconnect between the two at that moment, what they are individually experiencing, thinking or responding to. As far as I can discern, they are not responding to one another. So, I'm wondering who they were "posing" for?

She's definitely not as into what was going on as he was.

I wonder who did take that photo.

 

[Dushi]

Ditto. I try to make the best of a bad situation.

In Robyn's case, she was in another country with a nut that she didn't want to give any reason to go off. She had seen what happens when he gets angry. She made a mistake going with him. It cost her her life. So sad.

I seriously don't know if it cost her life or not
She is missing, Thats all i know

But , please, she decided to go to this country with him
Do you think she was stupid? i don't think so.
She knew who she was dating and IMO, she was dating him... for over a year
Are you saying ahe didn't have any idea about who this man was, what he was like?

 

[Dushi]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/robyn-gard...act-missing-maryland-womans/story?id=14551884

Who took this photo? There is a distinct disconnect between the two at that moment, what they are individually experiencing, thinking or responding to. As far as I can discern, they are not responding to one another. So, I'm wondering who they were "posing" for?

What photo?

 

[LambChop]

She's definitely not as into what was going on as he was.

I wonder who did take that photo.

Someone was taking photos at the beach party they attended. They are in a lot of the pictures that were taken. It appears this is one of the photos. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Someone was taking photos at the beach party they attended. They are in a lot of the pictures that were taken. It appears this is one of the photos. jmo

As I understand it, when you attend one of these parties in Aruba, photos are taken, not of anyone in particular, just a big party pictures.
They are then posted to promote other parties

It is not of them, its of the party