ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 6

[Dushi]

I still don't get why they went there the day before
If snorkelling was what they were looking for, the fact that the bar wasn't open wouldn't matter.
To spend time in the same place on two days of a very short vacation doesn't make a lot of sense

 

[neesaki]

I have also wondered if Robyn had communicated with her friend Christine, either by cell phone or text or even email after she and GG arrived in Aruba and during their time there before she went missing. I have never heard anything about that. Just seems if they were that good of friends there may have been some contact between them about what Robyn and GG were doing, or if things were not going well, etc. Christine, aka as CJ on FB, is the one that did some television interviews on Nancy Grace or JVM (I think) and then went to Aruba a while back to "look" for Robyn. Not long after that CJ posted on the FB page that she had cleaned Robyn's clothes out of the apartment and donated them to a battered women's shelter. Since then I haven't really heard anything from her. It also appears from what I've seen on the FB page that her and RF are not on good terms.

 

[Willow57]

I've thought that that maybe they really picked that spot because it was kind of secluded and maybe they wanted to take some"adult-type" pictures(or even have sex) that wouldn't be appropriate on some of the other beaches.JMO

 

[LambChop]

I've thought that that maybe they really picked that spot because it was kind of secluded and maybe they wanted to take some"adult-type" pictures(or even have sex) that wouldn't be appropriate on some of the other beaches.JMO

It is not a secluded area. Baby Beach is an area that is popular with families. The back side of the island is more secluded. There are cliffs back there where the drop to the water is significant but there are also cut out areas where there are nice little beaches. The currents however are very strong so you never see people swimming on these beaches. Had he taken her there and claimed she drowned it would have been believable because not all tourists are aware of the strong currents.

If they wanted a secluded area to take pictures those spots would be perfect because you do not see alot of traffic along those dirt roads. It is obvious he did not know much about the island because he tried to say she drowned in an area where a few witnesses claimed they never went into the water. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I've thought that that maybe they really picked that spot because it was kind of secluded and maybe they wanted to take some"adult-type" pictures(or even have sex) that wouldn't be appropriate on some of the other beaches.JMO

If that was the reason for choosing a location, I think they would have realized that it is not that secluded the day before when they first visited the bar and beach
I would imagine the area is even less secluded when the restaurant/bar is open as it was on the day she disappeared

They left the bar around fourish? It was still open.

 

[Tugela]

Rocks in two feet of water are not an impediment to diving and/snorkeling? :waitasec: With all due respect, have you seen the video of the alleged snorkeling site?

I believe that is what is known as "wading till deeper water". Obviously they would not have been snorkeling where that video was shot, it was right alongside the shore. What makes you think they were snorkeling right there?

 

[Tugela]

You don't dive in 2 foot of water which is what he was in. His suit was not wet and that is what was reported plus it is visible on the video.

<modsnip> mine dry pretty quick. They are constructed of non-absorbent material, otherwise it would be like swimming wearing a brick. Sneakers would take much longer, probably hours, to dry out. Water shoes, if he had those, probably not so long, again because of the material they are made of.

<modsnip>? If his hair had been wet (obvious from the video), his shoes were wet but his trunks dry, then that clearly sets a time frame from when he was in the water until he appeared on video.

 

[neesaki]

I believe that is what is known as "wading till deeper water". Obviously they would not have been snorkeling where that video was shot, it was right alongside the shore. What makes you think they were snorkeling right there?

I believe that is what is known as "not going snorkeling because it is rocky and treacherous waters, and it is where only way beyond stupid people would go snorkeling" and because it is not a "tourist" area. That's what makes me think they were NOT snorkeling right there. Among other things. Have you not been following this case closely? JMO

 

[neesaki]

I believe that is what is known as "wading till deeper water". Obviously they would not have been snorkeling where that video was shot, it was right alongside the shore. What makes you think they were snorkeling right there?

:waitasec: And furthermore, going snorkeling in rocky and treacherous waters w/ high heeled wedges (Robyn wasn't a diver or snorkeler according to her friends); going snorkeling at the end of the day with fresh makeup and hair done; going snorkeling with hair extentions, that according to her hairdresser AND her boyfriend she would not go in the salt water or even a swimming pool above her waist : and, because there were much calmer, safer and scenic places to snorkel near their hotel. It's also what is known as common sense.

And do you think that Aruba LE are totally clueless and just holding GG in an Aruban jail just for their own amusement? Also, GG is purportedly an experienced "businessman" (criminal, thief, perhaps but still....) , so in spite of himself, he didn't get where he was by being completely stupid and careless and risking his own life. Even he knows when to excercise appropriate caution. So do you think he would risk his life to snorkel in those rocky treacherous waters? Hahaha!. That coward? All I can say is that if GG took a drunk and drugged 'girlfriend' " snorkeling" in this area in this situation, then one thing's pretty clear and that is that something's very, very rotten in Denmark. TJMO

 

[LambChop]

The bar is no more than a one minute jog to the restaurant and GG claims to have run there right after getting out of the water at 6:15 at night. No bright sun to dry his suit and it takes me a good 15 to 20 minutes, even in Aruba at high noon, for my suit to dry getting out of the water and it also is lightweight material. His suit was not wet and his hair appears to be dry, not wet and witnesses claim, also, that his hair appeared to be dry.

The big problem with GG's story is that he picked an area he was not familiar with, at a time of the day when he could not see those rocks in the water because had they been serious about snorkeling they would have picked an area on the other side of the restaurant to go into the water where there is sand, not rocks and they could have gone into the deeper water from there. The spot GG picked to park the car and claim to have gone in would have been impossible for a person who has been drinking all afternoon to have gotten into the water without falling down and hurting themselves.

This, among other things, is what is sending up that big red flag for LE. The story GG is claiming happened just does not make sense to anyone who knows that area and it probably never happened. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I believe that is what is known as "not going snorkeling because it is rocky and treacherous waters, and it is where only way beyond stupid people would go snorkeling" and because it is not a "tourist" area. That's what makes me think they were NOT snorkeling right there. Among other things. Have you not been following this case closely? JMO

One thing that needs to be kept in mind, there was a lot of alcohol and possibly sleeping pills involved in the decisions.

 

[Dushi]

:waitasec: And furthermore, going snorkeling in rocky and treacherous waters w/ high heeled wedges (Robyn wasn't a diver or snorkeler according to her friends); going snorkeling at the end of the day with fresh makeup and hair done; going snorkeling with hair extentions, that according to her hairdresser AND her boyfriend she would not go in the salt water or even a swimming pool above her waist : and, because there were much calmer, safer and scenic places to snorkel near their hotel. It's also what is known as common sense.

And do you think that Aruba LE are totally clueless and just holding GG in an Aruban jail just for their own amusement? Also, GG is purportedly an experienced "businessman" (criminal, thief, perhaps but still....) , so in spite of himself, he didn't get where he was by being completely stupid and careless and risking his own life. Even he knows when to excercise appropriate caution. So do you think he would risk his life to snorkel in those rocky treacherous waters? Hahaha!. That coward? All I can say is that if GG took a drunk and drugged 'girlfriend' " snorkeling" in this area in this situation, then one thing's pretty clear and that is that something's very, very rotten in Denmark. TJMO

There is no question in my mind that something"is rotten in Denmark"

First of all, imo, nobody has ever said her shoes were missing so at this point I don't think anyone could assume she went into the water with her wedge shoes on

Swimming etc may not be something she did regularly according to her friends
That certainly doesn't mean that under the influence she may not do it.
We get differing stories from her friends
Some say she didn't like GG all that much, others say she was seeing him once a month or more for quite some time.
RF says they were going to work out their problems.
The woman, C someone says they were finished, etc etc etc

My point is , nobody knows what was going through RG's head, what she was thinking
Our opinions are all based on opinions of her friends
And it seems on many things, they can't agree

As far as the Aruban LE, they have made it quite clear they are very suspicious of the whole situation and believe GG is involved
If you recall, there was a huge list of charges they are looking into
Not just murder.

Under their system , they have the right to hold him without charges til they develope a case.
I don't think LE is clueless or doing this for their amusement.
However, they may not have anything other than suspicion


JMO

 

[Dushi]

The bar is no more than a one minute jog to the restaurant and GG claims to have run there right after getting out of the water at 6:15 at night. No bright sun to dry his suit and it takes me a good 15 to 20 minutes, even in Aruba at high noon, for my suit to dry getting out of the water and it also is lightweight material. His suit was not wet and his hair appears to be dry, not wet and witnesses claim, also, that his hair appeared to be dry.

The big problem with GG's story is that he picked an area he was not familiar with, at a time of the day when he could not see those rocks in the water because had they been serious about snorkeling they would have picked an area on the other side of the restaurant to go into the water where there is sand, not rocks and they could have gone into the deeper water from there. The spot GG picked to park the car and claim to have gone in would have been impossible for a person who has been drinking all afternoon to have gotten into the water without falling down and hurting themselves.

This, among other things, is what is sending up that big red flag for LE. The story GG is claiming happened just does not make sense to anyone who knows that area and it probably never happened. jmo

Mens swim suits dry much faster than womens IMO
Don't know if he was in the water or not, I lean towards not

As far as location, he /they checked it all out the day before so it seems he was somewhat familiar with it.
And when they left the restaurant to go to the beach, there would be no reason why he could not see the rocks, its bright enough to see everything
It was his first trip I have read. he wouldn't be familiar with any part of Aruba.



A red flag for me is the visit on the day prior to her disappearance
Not making sense at all

If he took her to the other end of the Island, he would have to be able to find his way there, have to feel confident he wouldn't be seen.
Have to have time to return and set the stage
And if insurance is involved, he would have to think she would be found
Did he have knowledge about tides and currents?
If he threw her in at one end of the Island, did he feel she would be found where he said they were?
Did he feel that if she was found ashore by the cliffs, it would be believed that is where her body would end up?

 

[neesaki]

One thing that needs to be kept in mind, there was a lot of alcohol and possibly sleeping pills involved in the decisions.

ITA. Which is another red flag to me. If I have drank enough to be intoxicated, I would not go snorkeling in the ocean. I have never taken sleeping pills and drank alcohol together, but that would be an even bigger reason not to go snorkeling. Sleeping pills aren't an upper, they're a downer. If this was the state Robyn was in, I don't believe she would have had the energy and desire to engage in a physical activity like that. JMO

 

[Dushi]

ITA. Which is another red flag to me. If I have drank enough to be intoxicated, I would not go snorkeling in the ocean. I have never taken sleeping pills and drank alcohol together, but that would be an even bigger reason not to go snorkeling. Sleeping pills aren't an upper, they're a downer. If this was the state Robyn was in, I don't believe she would have had the energy and desire to engage in a physical activity like that. JMO

I so agree with you, I wouldn't either.
However I am not much of a drinker so I don't know what I would agree to if I overindulged
I mean people do silly dangerous things when under the influence, drive cars etc.
I have read here, that Ambien is used as a sort of high
I don't recall the details and its way back in a thread.

 

[Dushi]

And you know, your points are valid and you could be 100% right

I just like to pick apart all sides of things
Nothing personal, and I hope you know that

 

[neesaki]

There is no question in my mind that something"is rotten in Denmark"

First of all, imo, nobody has ever said her shoes were missing so at this point I don't think anyone could assume she went into the water with her wedge shoes on

Swimming etc may not be something she did regularly according to her friends
That certainly doesn't mean that under the influence she may not do it.
We get differing stories from her friends
Some say she didn't like GG all that much, others say she was seeing him once a month or more for quite some time.
RF says they were going to work out their problems.
The woman, C someone says they were finished, etc etc etc

My point is , nobody knows what was going through RG's head, what she was thinking
Our opinions are all based on opinions of her friends
And it seems on many things, they can't agree

As far as the Aruban LE, they have made it quite clear they are very suspicious of the whole situation and believe GG is involved
If you recall, there was a huge list of charges they are looking into
Not just murder.

Under their system , they have the right to hold him without charges til they develope a case.
I don't think LE is clueless or doing this for their amusement.
However, they may not have anything other than suspicion


JMO

I really doubt that Robyn did like GG other than for the perks he could offer her, he was like a sugar daddy, IMO. Christine at one point stated that RF was her friend, yet her statements and behaviors toward him don't seem to line up with that.

One thing I can say about RF is that he hasn't given up and was the one who most helped keep Robyn in the MSM. He also hasn't given up on finding her. Unlike C seems to have rather easily, getting rid of her belongings so soon, to me, was a little premature and not in very good taste, JMO.

As far as I know, it is fact that Robyn sent the "I love you, we'll work things out when I get back" text message to RF. So maybe Robyn and C weren't as close as C leads everyone to believe, I just don't know.

ITA that Aruba LE are highly suspicious, and I believe they have more than that or they wouldn't have continued to hold GG this long. I believe that LE did say that their findings in the re-enactment didn't support GG's claims though they didn't say specifically.

I just hope they have enough to try and convict him. Would be nice if we knew more yet I understand why they are keeping so quiet. Isn't it true that the Aruba LE doesn't have to share any of their findings with the defense, Dushi ? If that's the case, this would explain why they are keeping everything so close to the vest.:seeya:

 

[Dushi]

I really doubt that Robyn did like GG other than for the perks he could offer her, he was like a sugar daddy, IMO. Christine at one point stated that RF was her friend, yet her statements and behaviors toward him don't seem to line up with that.

One thing I can say about RF is that he hasn't given up and was the one who most helped keep Robyn in the MSM. He also hasn't given up on finding her. Unlike C seems to have rather easily, getting rid of her belongings so soon, to me, was a little premature and not in very good taste, JMO.

As far as I know, it is fact that Robyn sent the "I love you, we'll work things out when I get back" text message to RF. So maybe Robyn and C weren't as close as C leads everyone to believe, I just don't know.

ITA that Aruba LE are highly suspicious, and I believe they have more than that or they wouldn't have continued to hold GG this long. I just hope they have enough to try and convict him. Would be nice if we knew more yet I understand why they are keeping so quiet also. Isn't it true that the Aruba LE doesn't have to share any of their findings with the defense, Dushi ? If that's the case, this would explain why they are keeping everything so close to the vest.

Yes, no charges have been laid so for now, its just an investigation.
As frustrating as it is to hear nothing in the news, its for the best.
Rumors and speculation do nothing to lead police to the truth and we know how quickly rumors become fact to so many and then they remain fact.
MSM reports everything, people read and believe it. Why wouldn't they?
Then , later it is reported that the reports were inaccurate :crazy:

As far as C and R go, well neither were there so it doesn't matter much really
I really don't have an opnion on whose account is more accurate
But IMO, Robyn went away with another man, for whatever reasons.
It says to me, that she was unsure of her feelings towards RF and certainly not committed

 

[neesaki]

And you know, your points are valid and you could be 100% right

I just like to pick apart all sides of things
Nothing personal, and I hope you know that

Oh, far, far from 100 %, and we all have some very valid points. Plus, I appreciate everyone's input and ideas, even your picking it apart :websleuther: as it helps me to see the bigger picture, not just what I want to see. That's part of what's so great about the websleuth forums.

 

[concentric]

I've thought that that maybe they really picked that spot because it was kind of secluded and maybe they wanted to take some"adult-type" pictures(or even have sex) that wouldn't be appropriate on some of the other beaches.JMO

Hi, Willow57. JMO - I've always thought that one of the premises for their driving around was to scout out photograph/video locations (I've made many posts regarding this in previous threads.) From what I understand, there are some abandoned structures (Nanki Country Club?) adjacent to the restaurant and beach at that location. We talked about that before. Then there was the mention of abadoned structures at the old oil refinery on an opposite end of the island. And, remember the fisherman shacks in the Natalee Holloway case? It is my feeling that GG may have been looking for this type of seclusion.