ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 7

[neesaki]

Thanks for this timeline!
Dateline didn't mention the part about the major fight of Aug 2, or the scene at Dog Graves Beach - how true is that info?

The hotel fight should have been easy to substantiate and very surprised (unless somehow I missed it) that Dateline did not report that! A fight like that is a real game-changer!

I don't know if those particular events were ever confirmed to be true. But Dateline didn't report on several points that I wish they would have, probably because Baez wouldn't let them. JMO

 

[neesaki]

Jose Baez, against all odds, secured an acquittal for Casey Anthony even though the media, the public and the talking heads had already condemned Casey Anthony. Mr Baez is the man to have in your corner when everything is stacked against you, no doubt about that.
Immediately Mr Baez entered onto the scene in this case, it was just a matter of time that Mr Giordano was going to be released without any evidence against him.

Ah, Mr. Baez, the Devil's Advocate? :wink:

 

[Dushi]

I don't know if those particular events were ever confirmed to be true. But Dateline didn't report on several points that I wish they would have, probably because Baez wouldn't let them. JMO

Dateline didn't even have the right hotel

 

[LolliPop]

The legacy of the Natalee Holloway case has influenced this case profoundly, so much so that it has resulted in not only causing the Aruban Authorities to overcompensate but allowed an opportunity for the media and others to have a field day in regurgitating the Natalee Holloway case, when in fact the two cases could not be more different.
In my opinion, Aruba did what they could, under the circumstances, in the Natalee Holloway case even though the media and others were influencing events from the sidelines.
The biggest mistake the Aruban Authorities did was to allow the interference to continue and not take a tougher stance in that regard.

The end result can clearly be seen in this case whereby an overzealous need to prosecute has resulted in a man being imprisoned for over 4 months and then released with no charge, clearly for lack of evidence.

 

[Dushi]

Up thread
Le reported there was no fight on video at their hotel
If it ever happened, it was never proven
Another rumour

 

[Norwegian]

Just finished the Dateline episode. It was a little dull, but very interesting to hear what that crybaby had to say...

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

 

[Dushi]

The legacy of the Natalee Holloway case has influenced this case profoundly, so much so that it has resulted in not only causing the Aruban Authorities to overcompensate but allowed an opportunity for the media and others to have a field day in regurgitating the Natalee Holloway case, when in fact the two cases could not be more different.
In my opinion, Aruba did what they could, under the circumstances, in the Natalee Holloway case even though the media and others were influencing events from the sidelines.
The biggest mistake the Aruban Authorities did was to allow the interference to continue and not take a tougher stance in that regard.

The end result can clearly be seen in this case whereby an overzealous need to prosecute has resulted in a man being imprisoned for over 4 months and then released with no charge, clearly for lack of evidence.

Yes, I agree
They were beaten up so badly with the NH case, you can only imagine what they thought when another missing/disappeared case happened
So many want to believe in anothe conspiracy theory

Perhaps GG is not guilty, perhaps he is...
Problem is for Aruba, they can't win no matter what stance they take

No wanna be judge here, no local
All we have is a missing person and a questionable partner

Sadly, no answeres either

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Hypothetically speaking –
Why would a person get a million+ insurance policy on someone they’re planning to kill in a manner where no body is recovered, and in of all places Aruba?
Surely, they know the sensitivity this would have in Aruba and that it will be sensationalized.
Legal fees will quickly eat up the insurance money.

Is it possible a person might actually want to become the center of media attention? Perhaps a sort of copy-cat NH crime in Aruba. Purchasing lots of insurance right before the crime and fighting beforehand with the victim will get you noticed. Considering legal fees – don’t see monetary gain a logical motive (but then, why should I expect all killers to be logical).

Wonder about control-freak, stalker personalities – those who for some reason become attached to a person they cannot let go of… Seen some case in which a person seems normal their entire life and then they just go stalker/control-freak nuts over one person…

Wonder about men who get into swinger situations where they latch onto a woman not because they care for that woman, but because they can use that woman as entrée with other swingers.
Now if that guy also turns out to be control-freak, and “his” gal doesn’t want to go along… well, there’s a volatile situation.

When you consider how much fame is 'valued' in our society, and how much media coverage some of these cases get, It wouldn't surprise if someone wanted to become (in)famous this way. I don't know if that happened in this particular case, though.

 

[vlpate]

Up thread
Le reported there was no fight on video at their hotel
If it ever happened, it was never proven
Another rumour

Perhaps then, the rumors should be taken off the timeline - normally the timeline is factual, at least on most Timeline's I've seen posted on WS.

 

[Dushi]

Perhaps then, the rumors should be taken off the timeline - normally the timeline is factual, at least on most Timeline's I've seen posted on WS.

OR posted as what they are... rumours
I agree

 

[Nova]

He kind of looks like a victim of US media maniacs (eg: Nancy Grace) that convict someone of murder without evidence ... a victim of that moving-goal-post justice system that means different things depending on the state. I think it's weird that the US doesn't have a national justice system ... like other countries. We hear criticisms of the Aruban (the country - not state, territory or province) justice system, knowing full well that we don't have to wade through the various territories to figure out how justice is interpretted, but the US is just that ... depending on where one is in the US, justice has a different meaning. How can anyone from that kind of decentralized national system criticize a country where the justice system is, at the very least, unified?

I don't understand your point, otto. Aruba is smaller than any U.S. state jurisdiction, even smaller than the District of Columbia. Yes, we have a federal system in the U.S. in which some matters are reserved to the states and some to the federal government.

But Aruba also has its own laws, yet remains subject to higher courts in the Netherlands.

The two systems may not be perfectly analogous and I'm not saying Aruba is the same thing as a U.S. state, but I see no reason to assert that Aruban law is more "centralized" than that of Rhode Island.

 

[vlpate]

Yes, I agree
They were beaten up so badly with the NH case, you can only imagine what they thought when another missing/disappeared case happened
So many want to believe in anothe conspiracy theory

They deserved to be beaten up in the NH case, come on! What conspiracy theory are you referring to?

Perhaps GG is not guilty, perhaps he is...
Problem is for Aruba, they can't win no matter what stance they take

Ask Stepahany Flores' parents who wins.

No wanna be judge here, no local
All we have is a missing person and a questionable partner
Sadly, no answeres either

BEM: Sometimes it's just not that complicated. Sometimes, for all it's howling like a wounded dog, and whinnying like a jackass, it really is just a duck.

All JMO

 

[vlpate]

The legacy of the Natalee Holloway case has influenced this case profoundly, so much so that it has resulted in not only causing the Aruban Authorities to overcompensate but allowed an opportunity for the media and others to have a field day in regurgitating the Natalee Holloway case, when in fact the two cases could not be more different.

Robyn was from the US
Natalie was from the US

Robyn on vacation in Aruba
Natalie on vacation in Aruba

Robyn was drinking with Giordano
Joran and Natalie (and others) were drinking

There are witnesses who saw Joran and Natalie together right before she disappeared
There are witnesses who saw Giordano and Robyn together right before she disappeared

Joran said the last time he saw Natalie was on the beach in Aruba
Giordano said the last time he saw Robyn was in the water in Aruba

Joran said Natalie may have been abducted by sex traffickers
Giordano said Robyn may have been abducted by sex traffickers

Joran was the last to see Natalie
Giordano was the last to see Robyn

Both were let go due to lack of evidence
Joran went on to kill a young woman
Giordano went on to.....

Yep, nothing at all alike

In my opinion, Aruba did what they could, under the circumstances, in the Natalee Holloway case even though the media and others were influencing events from the sidelines.

You mean like trying to force them to investigate further? Like the taped confession that was found inadmissable? Whether it was or wasn't legally taped - it was certainly cause to keep a close eye on him.

The biggest mistake the Aruban Authorities did was to allow the interference to continue and not take a tougher stance in that regard.

Of course you are talking about the media, not Joran?

The end result can clearly be seen in this case whereby an overzealous need to prosecute has resulted in a man being imprisoned for over 4 months and then released with no charge, clearly for lack of evidence.

I think four months is a lenient sentence for a man to serve who tried to flee the country while Aruban authorities and his companion's parents, were still actively trying to find said companion.

The wicked, nasty, invasive media - shame on them for making these boyscouts accountable for answering tough questions about the disappearances of the women they were the last to see. Yet, we hang on their every utterance and soundbite - we swallow and regurgitate and complain it is not enough - and then blame them for being too invasive. Rich.

 

[JeannaT]

Vipate - I've always thought Natalee drowned, and I think Robyn most likely drowned also.

So, another similarity in the two cases.

Maybe it's because I very very nearly drowned snorkeling in what are supposed to be calm waters off 7 mile beach in the Caymens about when Natalee went missing. I'm a VERY strong swimmer, and also I float naturally, but I very nearly drowned in a rip current that got hold of me and wouldn't let go. Had I been drinking as Natalee and Robyn were, I would be dead.

Life experiences I guess lead us all to conclude different things.

 

[vlpate]

Vipate - I've always thought Natalee drowned, and I think Robyn most likely drowned also.

So, another similarity in the two cases.

Maybe it's because I very very nearly drowned snorkeling in what are supposed to be calm waters off 7 mile beach in the Caymens about when Natalee went missing. I'm a VERY strong swimmer, and also I float naturally, but I very nearly drowned in a rip current that got hold of me and wouldn't let go. Had I been drinking as Natalee and Robyn were, I would be dead.

Life experiences I guess lead us all to conclude different things.

So what happened? Did someone help you or get help for you? Glad you are ok. I've been snorkeling once off the Florida Keys - it was all good until everything turned black and the "Jaws" music started playing in my ears, lol.

 

[otto]

"Snorkel out through the break in the rocks [at Baby Beach] but be watchful of the current once below. The stands of elk horn, sheet coral and brain coral are among the healthiest on Aruba's side. Currents funnelling along the island's southern tip make a re-entry of the lagoon difficult. It would be better to complete on nearby Rogers Beach (also called Nanki Beach)"

http://www.divetime.com/divesites/Caribbean/Aruba/Baby_Beach_Reef_67166.html

 

[Nova]

I've been caught in a rip tide with a companion. It's true that I grew up around the ocean and I'm not quick to panic, but I did have trouble getting back to shore yet somehow managed to keep an eye on my companion at the same time. I just don't buy the "I touched her leg and then never saw her again."

I wonder about the beneficiary on the travel insurance; maybe somebody who commonly buys such insurance can help me. Why would you make yourself the beneficiary of travel insurance taken out on your companion?

Wouldn't you expect to be with your travel partner? Wouldn't you expect that any disaster that might befall your companion would also happen to you?

Plane crash? Hurricane, earthquake, tsunami? Kidnapping for ransom? In each case, I'd assume that if my companion were to die, I would probably die as well. So why make myself the beneficiary?

Am I missing something here?

 

[vlpate]

I've been caught in a rip tide with a companion. It's true that I grew up around the ocean and I'm not quick to panic, but I did have trouble getting back to shore yet somehow managed to keep an eye on my companion at the same time. I just don't buy the "I touched her leg and then never saw her again."

I wonder about the beneficiary on the travel insurance; maybe somebody who commonly buys such insurance can help me. Why would you make yourself the beneficiary of travel insurance taken out on your companion?

Wouldn't you expect to be with your travel partner? Wouldn't you expect that any disaster that might befall your companion would also happen to you?

Plane crash? Hurricane, earthquake, tsunami? Kidnapping for ransom? In each case, I'd assume that if my companion were to die, I would probably die as well. So why make myself the beneficiary?

Am I missing something here?

Excellent point Nova. Plus the fact that they were not even close - the only beneficiary I've had for 26 years has been my daughter, before that, my mother. I can't imagine why she signed that document - if that is even her signature.

 

[JeannaT]

So what happened? Did someone help you or get help for you? Glad you are ok. I've been snorkeling once off the Florida Keys - it was all good until everything turned black and the "Jaws" music started playing in my ears, lol.

What a sweet thing to say, vlpate. I don't want to derail the discussion, but I had to swim at FULL strength for about an hour and a half, which is a very long time to swim as hard as you can. I intended to go out to the second sand bar where my teenage son and I agreed to meet to snorkel together when we got into the water, and somehow I missed it and kept swimming further into dangerous water. By the time he realized I was missing, I was GONE. I ended up about a half mile down the beach when I was finally able to drag myself ashore, and my family was in hysterics. : ( Come to think of it, I'm a bit surprised no one thought to call for help - I was starting to hope for a helicopter overhead. Anyway, alls well that ends well, I just have come away with a deep respect for currents if you swim further than you think you have. Glad you made it back from your near shark experience in the dark in the keys!! ;D

 

[vlpate]

"Snorkel out through the break in the rocks [at Baby Beach] but be watchful of the current once below. The stands of elk horn, sheet coral and brain coral are among the healthiest on Aruba's side. Currents funnelling along the island's southern tip make a re-entry of the lagoon difficult. It would be better to complete on nearby Rogers Beach (also called Nanki Beach)"

http://www.divetime.com/divesites/Caribbean/Aruba/Baby_Beach_Reef_67166.html

I don't think the fact that there are riptides was ever disputed - I think what was disputed was the investigators saying there were none that day.

Where did they get snorkeling gear? Did they find his?