ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 7

[neesaki]

He's angry because HE was inconvenienced - because he thought he would never see HIS kids again. He wasn't concerned or crying about Robyn going missing, possibly dead or taken off by stealth traffickers. He's mad at how HE was treated. Typical pathological behavior - I'd think we would all recognize it by now. If all you've watched or know about the case is from Dateline, then .... no, still don't see it, but I respect your opinion.

Like what? I mean, something that's not true?

No one will pay CA - that's why she hasn't spoken out - no one wants to hear anything she has to say. I don't find that a common barometer at all.

Oh, I thought they went snorkeling - I don't know how she would drown taking pictures or locked in an ugly bumping embrace...doesn't make sense, IMO. I think the investigators would have been able to tell where the pictures were taken anyway.

I was thinking he didn't want to compromise the insurance claim. Taking someone drunk and on pills snorkeling might lose him his "accident" claim.

Do you have a link? The policies I saw were filled in by hand. What I've read these policies are usually for an extended stay request.

I would say, omg she's missing, if you see her or if she tries to fly out, alert the authorities. I think I'd just leave off the part about her drowning and I'm getting the heck out of Dodge. But then he wasn't concerned about Robyn....so it makes sense he cut the conversation short so he could get on the plane quickly.

Baez is the one who stopped Gary during that interview and called his attorney in Aruba an ambulance chaser and said that attorney told GG to call the inurance people. That's how low Baez is - talks chit about another attorney, accusing him of unethical practices on Ntl. TV. Didn't he try the same thing with Jeff Ashton and got spanked for it? Anyway, yeah, no, I don't believe that at all. Typical Baez hyperbole.

What has been twisted .... just curious, because the only time I've seen the facts twisted and re-worked to the point of fiction was on the Dateline and ABC interviews.

I was so hoping someone else would go into this and I wouldn't have to. Thanks, vlpate.

 

[katydid23]

Excatly. Stories. Accusations made, but not substantiated.

How exactly does a woman substantiate a violent action, like a man choking her in the bedroom when they are alone?

 

[otto]

"Rip currents move along the surface of the water, pulling you straight out into the ocean, but not underneath the water's surface. A rip current may knock you off your feet in shallow water, however, and if you thrash around and get disoriented, you may end up being pulled along the ocean bottom.

...

Rip currents are terrifying because they catch you off guard: One minute you're bobbing along peacefully in the surf, the next you're being dragged out to sea at top speed. They occur in all sorts of weather and on a wide range of beaches. Unlike violent, crashing waves, you probably won't notice a rip current until you're right in the middle of it."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/rip-current.htm

 

[JeannaT]

I don't think the fact that there are riptides was ever disputed - I think what was disputed was the investigators saying there were none that day.

Where did they get snorkeling gear? Did they find his?

Yes, his has been documented recovered, I believe. I believe he brought his to the island.

It's hers that seems to be a mystery. I haven't seen any link that states where her snorkeling equipment, if any, came from.

 

[katydid23]

What a sweet thing to say, vlpate. I don't want to derail the discussion, but I had to swim at FULL strength for about an hour and a half, which is a very long time to swim as hard as you can. I intended to go out to the second sand bar where my teenage son and I agreed to meet to snorkel together when we got into the water, and somehow I missed it and kept swimming further into dangerous water. By the time he realized I was missing, I was GONE. I ended up about a half mile down the beach when I was finally able to drag myself ashore, and my family was in hysterics. : ( Come to think of it, I'm a bit surprised no one thought to call for help - I was starting to hope for a helicopter overhead. Anyway, alls well that ends well, I just have come away with a deep respect for currents if you swim further than you think you have. Glad you made it back from your near shark experience in the dark in the keys!! ;D

I had a similar experience in Santa Cruz in a very strong rip tide. And I swam for nearly an hour as well. I ended up on a beach very far from my starting point. That is why I find it so odd that he ended up right back where he and Robyn supposedly began their snorkeling trip. Thus he swam straight back into the beach. That makes no sense. imoo

 

[otto]

Yes, his has been documented recovered, I believe. I believe he brought his to the island.

It's hers that seems to be a mystery. I haven't seen any link that states where her snorkeling equipment, if any, came from.

He most likely brought equipment for both of them and if she drowned, then the equipment is with her at the bottom of the ocean.

 

[JeannaT]

He most likely brought equipment for both of them and if she drowned, then the equipment is with her at the bottom of the ocean.

Um hm, I think that's quite possible, it just seems like the question keeps coming up . . .. where did her equipment come from . . .. and it never gets answered.

 

[katydid23]

Vipate - I've always thought Natalee drowned, and I think Robyn most likely drowned also.

So, another similarity in the two cases.

Maybe it's because I very very nearly drowned snorkeling in what are supposed to be calm waters off 7 mile beach in the Caymens about when Natalee went missing. I'm a VERY strong swimmer, and also I float naturally, but I very nearly drowned in a rip current that got hold of me and wouldn't let go. Had I been drinking as Natalee and Robyn were, I would be dead.

Life experiences I guess lead us all to conclude different things.

Wouldn't that be quite a coincidence if Robyn met the same fate as Natalee? Because people who know GG have said that he was somewhat obsessed with that case. He apparently talked about Natalee Holloway often and brought that case up whenever he spoke of going to Aruba. He even told one young model's mother, that if she allowed her daughter to go on the trip with him, he would make sure that something like happened to Natalee would not happen to her daughter, he promised. Spooky and creepy, imo.

And do you think that Natalee drowned, Joran was innocent, but then he went and killed a girl in Peru just because?

 

[neesaki]

Hypothetically speaking –
Why would a person get a million+ insurance policy on someone they’re planning to kill in a manner where no body is recovered, and in of all places Aruba?
Surely, they know the sensitivity this would have in Aruba and that it will be sensationalized.
Legal fees will quickly eat up the insurance money.

Is it possible a person might actually want to become the center of media attention? Perhaps a sort of copy-cat NH crime in Aruba. Purchasing lots of insurance right before the crime and fighting beforehand with the victim will get you noticed. Considering legal fees – don’t see monetary gain a logical motive (but then, why should I expect all killers to be logical).

Wonder about control-freak, stalker personalities – those who for some reason become attached to a person they cannot let go of… Seen some case in which a person seems normal their entire life and then they just go stalker/control-freak nuts over one person…

Wonder about men who get into swinger situations where they latch onto a woman not because they care for that woman, but because they can use that woman as entrée with other swingers.
Now if that guy also turns out to be control-freak, and “his” gal doesn’t want to go along… well, there’s a volatile situation.

GG reportedly did have slightly more than a passing interest in the NH case, are you aware?

GG is also well known to be a control freak according to witnesses and his case history.

I personally believe these are relevant points. :seeya:

 

[katydid23]

He most likely brought equipment for both of them and if she drowned, then the equipment is with her at the bottom of the ocean.

Her equipment would not be at the bottom of the ocean. That stuff floats. And they began looking for her immediately after he reporting her missing. And even if it did end up underwater, they searched the entire area with sonar equipment. They would have found her snorkeling gear IF it had ever been there. imoo

 

[JeannaT]

Wouldn't that be quite a coincidence if Robyn met the same fate as Natalee? Because people who know GG have said that he was somewhat obsessed with that case. He apparently talked about Natalee Holloway often and brought that case up whenever he spoke of going to Aruba. He even told one young model's mother, that if she allowed her daughter to go on the trip with him, he would make sure that something like happened to Natalee would not happen to her daughter, he promised. Spooky and creepy, imo.

And do you think that Natalee drowned, Joran was innocent, but then he went and killed a girl in Peru just because?

I don't mean to make this all about me and my opinions, so I'll make this brief.

I think his life was ruined by the accusations against him, and the jail time he served in the Holloway case. I think he was a brash playboy prior to that, and then she drowned, and it ruined him completely and it led to his dad's death, and that ruined him.

But again, I really don't want to derail this thread.

 

[JeannaT]

Her equipment would not be at the bottom of the ocean. That stuff floats. And they began looking for her immediately after he reporting her missing. And even if it did end up underwater, they searched the entire area with sonar equipment. They would have found her snorkeling gear IF it had ever been there. imoo

If she was washed out to sea, it's likely her snorkel and mask washed out with her, IMHO.

 

[katydid23]

Jose Baez, against all odds, secured an acquittal for Casey Anthony even though the media, the public and the talking heads had already condemned Casey Anthony. Mr Baez is the man to have in your corner when everything is stacked against you, no doubt about that.
Immediately Mr Baez entered onto the scene in this case, it was just a matter of time that Mr Giordano was going to be released without any evidence against him.

YUP. All he had to do is lie and say her father molested her, and probably killed the baby too. What a hero.

 

[neesaki]

Vipate - I've always thought Natalee drowned, and I think Robyn most likely drowned also.

So, another similarity in the two cases.

Maybe it's because I very very nearly drowned snorkeling in what are supposed to be calm waters off 7 mile beach in the Caymens about when Natalee went missing. I'm a VERY strong swimmer, and also I float naturally, but I very nearly drowned in a rip current that got hold of me and wouldn't let go. Had I been drinking as Natalee and Robyn were, I would be dead.

Life experiences I guess lead us all to conclude different things.

Why do you believe Robyn was snorkeling. Because GG says it's so?:waitasec:

 

[katydid23]

If she was washed out to sea, it's likely her snorkel and mask washed out with her, IMHO.

I doubt it. I am sure she threw that stuff off immediately. It floats and it would not have moved as far or as fast as her body would have. Besides, they had their coast guard immediately on scene, and they looked where the tides were going and there was no sign of her. The locals know exactly where she would have been IF she had really been there snorkeling. And she was not there.

 

[Nova]

"Rip currents move along the surface of the water, pulling you straight out into the ocean, but not underneath the water's surface. A rip current may knock you off your feet in shallow water, however, and if you thrash around and get disoriented, you may end up being pulled along the ocean bottom.

...

Rip currents are terrifying because they catch you off guard: One minute you're bobbing along peacefully in the surf, the next you're being dragged out to sea at top speed. They occur in all sorts of weather and on a wide range of beaches. Unlike violent, crashing waves, you probably won't notice a rip current until you're right in the middle of it."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/rip-current.htm

This is why the solution is to NOT fight the current, but to swim calmly perpendicular to the current until you escape the rip. Then you can swim back to shore.

 

[katydid23]

I don't mean to make this all about me and my opinions, so I'll make this brief.

I think his life was ruined by the accusations against him, and the jail time he served in the Holloway case. I think he was a brash playboy prior to that, and then she drowned, and it ruined him completely and it led to his dad's death, and that ruined him.

But again, I really don't want to derail this thread.

Well, if you believe that Joran was innocent, then I will give up trying to convince you that GG is guilty.

If Natalee just innocently drowned, then why would joran blame those other people and make up all those other stories, and eventually confess to doing it himself?

 

[neesaki]

Yes, his has been documented recovered, I believe. I believe he brought his to the island.

It's hers that seems to be a mystery. I haven't seen any link that states where her snorkeling equipment, if any, came from.

Right, and if her body didn't wash in to shore, at least some of her snorkeling gear would. Sharks don't eat that do they?

After seeing the videos of that beach with those huge, gigantic rocks everywhere, the whole idea of anyone, especially Robyn, going snorkeling in an area like that is ludicrous. What with that huge ugly industrial plant there huffing away in the background.

No, it's not a beautiful,scenic area where tourists want to go, and no one paying money to go to that island would spend their time snorkeling or swimming in that isolated ugly area of the island. It's just very obvious to me that she didn't go snorkeling there, and I seriously don't believe she snorkeled at all.

 

[katydid23]

This is why the solution is to NOT fight the current, but to swim calmly perpendicular to the current until you escape the rip. Then you can swim back to shore.

EXACTLY. Which is why GG 's story makes no sense. There is no way that he would end up right back where he started, and there is no reason that she would have suddenly 'disappeared.' Rip tides don't work like that.

 

[JeannaT]

This is why the solution is to NOT fight the current, but to swim calmly perpendicular to the current until you escape the rip. Then you can swim back to shore.

You can't do that if you're at the tip of the island, as I was, and as it appears Robyn was. You can only do that if you have LOTS of shoreline parallel to you.

If you're at the tip of an island, you're gone. Best thing you can do is fight like a dog to get back to the island, otherwise, you're out to deep sea.

I was raised on the Texas Gulf Coast, and I agree with you that if you have a limitless coastline, go with the flow. That's what we were taught near Galveston. That's not the case in Aruba.