ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 8

[Micheline]

And he was detained by the Aruban authorities for 4 months and then released but is still a primary suspect. Once he told LE his story he was locked into it so whether or not he spent 4 months in jail or not I don't think he is in a position to change the "details" now since the FBI is probably fully aware of what his statement was. I believe this was his original plan to take her snorkeling there because it is safe and remote. I just don't think he thought much about the fact that the fishman was watching them, which puts a big hole in his story. jmo

-bolded by me-

What he says on TV is not an official statement, I have to admit though that I do not know how it would work FBI wise if he would add details or change them, but looking at the circumstances I personally think Giordano has every right to say what he wants after having his privacy violated by numerous people including the Chief Prosecutor.

Under Dutch law Giordano's privacy has to be protected in his position of a suspect.
His privacy was hugely violated when the Chief Prosecutor informed the media of the nature of pictures that were found on his camera, told the media that Giordano was guilty and a mean , and that he had 1,5 million insurance on his travel partner hereby suggesting the mean had this huge motive and on and on.

As much as many people think it unlikely (mainly due to what was told to and speculated by the media) it is still possible this is a case of accidental drowning, and Giordano may never be able to undo the harm done to his private and professional life.

Therefor I believe Giordano has every right to do some imago building on TV, and the fact that he choose not to state the obvious under the circumstances he finds himself in speaks in his advantage. IMO

 

[seabass]

Again, there are some people like me who think that YES Robyn may have drowned, but that GG SET UP very questionable circumstances that IMO he knew would most likely be dangerous and put her in a situation that led to her drowning. I guess since that isn't illegal, he should be able to go free. Just doesn't seem fair. To her or her family.

And even if he was one hundred percent innocent, I believe he still shouldn't have put minors on national television for fear of undue harassment toward them. I would want to protect them at all costs. That was my earlier point, many people think he is guilty even if he isn't. Whoever's fault that may be, you don't want your kids to get bullied or threatened by idiots wanting to exact revenge. It's not their fault their dad is in this situation.

 

[LambChop]

-bolded by me-

What he says on TV is not an official statement, I have to admit though that I do not know how it would work FBI wise if he would add details or change them, but looking at the circumstances I personally think Giordano has every right to say what he wants after having his privacy violated by numerous people including the Chief Prosecutor.

Under Dutch law Giordano's privacy has to be protected in his position of a suspect.
His privacy was hugely violated when the Chief Prosecutor informed the media of the nature of pictures that were found on his camera, told the media that Giordano was guilty and a mean , and that he had 1,5 million insurance on his travel partner hereby suggesting the mean had this huge motive and on and on.

As much as many people think it unlikely (mainly due to what was told to and speculated by the media) it is still possible this is a case of accidental drowning, and Giordano may never be able to undo the harm done to his private and professional life.

Therefor I believe Giordano has every right to do some imago building on TV, and the fact that he choose not to state the obvious under the circumstances he finds himself in speaks in his advantage. IMO

"Everything you say can and will be used against you." Old saying, but oh so true. What Mr. Stein had to say IMO is a personal observation and is in no way part of the ongoing investigation. I think Aruba has been pretty good about keeping a lid on it. Also the pictures found in his camera have nothing to do with RG's death. Investigators tell you what they are permitted to comment on, usually no more, no less. I have to imagine far more information would have leaked out if he was being held here in the US.

When you travel to a foreign country you are subject to their rules. He is a suspect in what the authorities feel was a crime. He has no privacy. The minute you leave this country you leave all that behind.

I would say 1.5M is a huge motive when your story does not match eye witness statements about where you were and when.

The first thing any attorney will tell you is to shut your mouth. Not make media appearances and certainly do not, do not take a flight from Aruba ending in NYC for an "exclusive" the following day on GMA followed up by a media tour of various talk shows. That just blows me away that he would even consider it.

We all know that GG's attorney has made it well known he wants a career associated with the media, talking head, PR, etc. So what was GGs' attorney's motivation to get him right onto those shows. Anyone want to venture a guess???? GG's appearance clearly did him more harm than good.

Plus each country has different laws regarding pornographic materials and just because they may differ than ours does not mean they are wrong. jmo

 

[Micheline]

No, not really. Whether he is innocent or not, GG knows he is suspected by many, including Aruban LE. Lambchop pointed out that GG also must know that (fairly or unfairly) JB is thought of as a defense attorney who represents murderers.

Giordano's father arranged for Baez to join the team. Since Giordano was arrested on suspicion of murder and Baez having some experience with cases that had overexposure on tv it may have been a logical choice.

A parent who actually had his kids' interests at heart would not have displayed them on national TV under these circumstances; he would have wanted to shield them from guilt by association.

When Giordano was released his father and his son's were waiting for him in Aruba and already caught on camera.
I do wonder if that had not been the case people would speculate even more, wondering why no one would have shown up upon his release and thinking the mean accusation made by Stein may be true after all since why else would his children not be waiting for him etc.

I think everything Giordano does right now will be looked at with suspicion because of the way he has been portrayed for months. He has sort of become the Lindsey Lohan of murder suspects. IMO

 

[LambChop]

<mod snip>

<mod snip>

GG was held in prison for four months because in Aruba they can do that without charging you. Where is there information he was in solitary when he claims to have had access to other prisoners and freely spoke with them about "trafficing". That does not appear to be solitary but if you have a link I would appreciate reading that.

How would anyone figure they wasted four months on him? They were conducting an investigation and he tried to leave the country without permission. I just look at what we have so far and it does not make sense. Usually, 99.9% of the time when what is being stated as facts compared to what is stating happened is cause for people to question his credibility. His past also comes in to play when you are considering if someone is telling the truth.

No one here has to believe what he has to say and isn't it better to question answers that just do not add up. I'd much rather do that than trust someone on just "blind faith".

This is a sleuthing thread. RG is missing and according to the Aruban authorities GG is the only suspect...not prior suspect. If we find holes in his story it should be discussed. If he is innocent his story will match up with known facts. Right now he's batting a 1,000. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Giordano's father arranged for Baez to join the team. Since Giordano was arrested on suspicion of murder and Baez having some experience with cases that had overexposure on tv it may have been a logical choice.



When Giordano was released his father and his son's were waiting for him in Aruba and already caught on camera.
I do wonder if that had not been the case people would speculate even more, wondering why no one would have shown up upon his release and thinking the mean accusation made by Stein may be true after all since why else would his children not be waiting for him etc.

I think everything Giordano does right now will be looked at with suspicion because of the way he has been portrayed for months. He has sort of become the Lindsey Lohan of murder suspects. IMO

I was under the impression his sons met GG in NYC, not Aruba?????? jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

"Everything you say can and will be used against you." Old saying, but oh so true. What Mr. Stein had to say IMO is a personal observation and is in no way part of the ongoing investigation. I think Aruba has been pretty good about keeping a lid on it. Also the pictures found in his camera have nothing to do with RG's death. Investigators tell you what they are permitted to comment on, usually no more, no less. I have to imagine far more information would have leaked out if he was being held here in the US.

When you travel to a foreign country you are subject to their rules. He is a suspect in what the authorities feel was a crime. He has no privacy. The minute you leave this country you leave all that behind.

I would say 1.5M is a huge motive when your story does not match eye witness statements about where you were and when.

The first thing any attorney will tell you is to shut your mouth. Not make media appearances and certainly do not, do not take a flight from Aruba ending in NYC for an "exclusive" the following day on GMA followed up by a media tour of various talk shows. That just blows me away that he would even consider it.

We all know that GG's attorney has made it well known he wants a career associated with the media, talking head, PR, etc. So what was GGs' attorney's motivation to get him right onto those shows. Anyone want to venture a guess???? GG's appearance clearly did him more harm than good.

Plus each country has different laws regarding pornographic materials and just because they may differ than ours does not mean they are wrong. jmo

....and if GG did not go on T.V. ? Then it would be "if he has nothing to hide why not go on T.V. and answer the questions"

"GG's appearance Clearly did him more harm than good" ? I would venture to guess there are many who would disagree with that "opinion".

....and exactly what "eyewitness accounts don't match where he was and when" ?

Do you believe GG is 100% guilty of murdering RG for 1.5 million in insurance?
If the answer is yes I can see where your comments are coming from....I just don't know how you can be so sure, wish you could explain that to me.

[modsnip]

 

[Micheline]

I was under the impression his sons met GG in NYC, not Aruba?????? jmo

You are correct, the video footage from Giordano's release show him in Aruba at 0:50 and at 0:51 in NY with the same clothes cap etc, I did not listen to the voiceover when I saw it and assumed his children were waiting in a guestroom at the hotel.


0:50 and 0:51 into the clip:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/gar...ns-robyn-gardner-dissapearance-aruba-15063408

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

BBM: Please do not address my post in such a personal matter in the future.

GG was held in prison for four months because in Aruba they can do that without charging you. Where is there information he was in solitary when he claims to have had access to other prisoners and freely spoke with them about "trafficing". That does not appear to be solitary but if you have a link I would appreciate reading that.

How would anyone figure they wasted four months on him? They were conducting an investigation and he tried to leave the country without permission. I just look at what we have so far and it does not make sense. Usually, 99.9% of the time when what is being stated as facts compared to what is stating happened is cause for people to question his credibility. His past also comes in to play when you are considering if someone is telling the truth

No one here has to believe what he has to say and isn't it better to question answers that just do not add up. I'd much rather do that than trust someone on just "blind faith".

This is a sleuthing thread. RG is missing and according to the Aruban authorities GG is the only suspect...not prior suspect. If we find holes in his story it should be discussed. If he is innocent his story will match up with known facts. Right now he's batting a 1,000. jmo

"wasted" should have been "Invested"

Your right , the use of " solitary" was in reference to the outside world (see how easy it is to admit I may have been wrong)

<modsnip>

 

[LambChop]

....and if GG did not go on T.V. ? Then it would be "if he has nothing to hide why not go on T.V. and answer the questions"

"GG's appearance Clearly did him more harm than good" ? I would venture to guess there are many who would disagree with that "opinion".

....and exactly what "eyewitness accounts don't match where he was and when" ?

Do you believe GG is 100% guilty of murdering RG for 1.5 million in insurance?
If the answer is yes I can see where your comments are coming from....I just don't know how you can be so sure, wish you could explain that to me.

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind I do not mind you posting your differences in our opinions but do not make it personal and you are getting personal. I'm here to discuss this case so please leave the personal questions out of the discussion. Thanks

The fisherman gave a totally different account than GG in his statement. The fisherman claims they left the beach after walking along the beach area in their car and did not go into the water. Another fact is if his sneakers were weighing him down they would have been prior to getting out into deeper water and not just all of a sudden after swimming for over an hour. There are just too many things wrong with his statements.

Again, it's a sleuthing thread. It's about finding the truth and what really happened. Any statement that GG gives is up for discussion. Presently GG is the only suspect, the only one and he is still considered a suspect by the Aruban authorities. Every word he says will be gone over and over by authorities. jmo

 

[LambChop]

You are correct, the video footage from Giordano's release show him in Aruba at 0:50 and at 0:51 in NY with the same clothes cap etc, I did not listen to the voiceover when I saw it and assumed his children were waiting in a guestroom at the hotel.


0:50 and 0:51 into the clip:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/gar...ns-robyn-gardner-dissapearance-aruba-15063408

Yes, I was pretty sure they went from Aruba to Miami and then to a connecting flight to NYC. I would not think JB would have taken the boys with him just to hop on a plane to come back. jmo

 

[neesaki]

Possibly denial

But if so, he is still raising money to search other places

Setting up a fund to do this when there is no proof at all that she ever left the Island that I am aware of

Well, first of all, there's no proof of anything. That's the whole problem with this case. And, as other missing person's families and loved ones have started fundraisers to help out, I personally am not going to be one to question it. If RF believes there is a possibility of human trafficking, and I know he isn't the only one out there who does see it as a possibility, I just cannot fault him in this. It also has also been on my list of "possibilities" regarding her disappearance considering no body has yet to be found. JMO

 

[neesaki]

That is the hinky part. Why not just go down there and talk with authorities. It is about the most affordable way to get information and it's a starting point. Instead he seems to want others to help him pay for his trip when he is losing the advantage of time while things are fresh in people's minds. jmo

I really doubt that the Aruba authorities are going to be that forthcoming with any information, they will protect themselves. Also, I don't believe they are going to be too friendly to discussing the possibility of human trafficking because, even if it were very likely, they don't want to shed any light on it or give it any credence. It would be very bad for Aruba. JMO

 

[LambChop]

I really doubt that the Aruba authorities are going to be that forthcoming with any information, they will protect themselves. Also, I don't believe they are going to be too friendly to discussing the possibility of human trafficking because, even if it were very likely, they don't want to shed any light on it or give it any credence. It would be very bad for Aruba. JMO

One thing I noticed when GG was giving his interview with GR, I think. He talks about "human trafficing.." in Aruba being the number one money maker not tourism. He then went on to explain how boats from SA (15 miles away) bring people to Aruba and drop them in the water to swim ashore. That is not human trafficing, that is an immigration problem for Aruba and I do believe that does happen.

Things are not so great in SA now and I could see someone trying to get work in Aruba and I'm sure Aruba has a quota as to how many foreign nationals they bring into the country to work legally. So essentially they have the same problem we do, illegals coming into the country to work and live.

I can remember sitting in the Aruban airport years ago and some young man came up and removed a cigarette from a pack on our table and walked off with it. My husband walked over the one of the policeman who was in the area and told the officer what happened. The officer said that was stealing. The next thing we knew the man was in handcuffs and being lead out by other officers (he also took soda from the snackbar without paying.) When my husband approached the officer again, the officer said they found an expired airline ticket to the US on him and he was there in Aruba illegally from Columbia. It was a problem then with SA's coming into the country by sea.

At some point we were stopped from buying fish from fisherman when they brought their boats in. Now that area is all fenced in and there is a official there from immigrations so you can't get back there anymore. At least you could not the last time I tried. I was told they know every boat that goes in and out of there. And I would imagine that they keep tight control over what goes in and what goes out. They also don't want the drug cartel setting up shop there. We all have seen what has happened in Mexico. That would kill the tourist business in Aruba for sure.

I was really shocked to hear GG say that and JB let him. Surely JB knows the difference or his client decided to add something they had not gone over. Maybe that is what JB meant by too much detail. jmo

 

[Micheline]

-respectfully snipped by me-

"Everything you say can and will be used against you." Old saying, but oh so true. What Mr. Stein had to say IMO is a personal observation and is in no way part of the ongoing investigation.

A public prosecutor has to refrain from venting his personal feelings about a suspect to the media. Stein was interviewed in his position of being the Chief Prosecutor, he was not talking to someone of the record. This just cannot be excused.

I think Aruba has been pretty good about keeping a lid on it. Also the pictures found in his camera have nothing to do with RG's death. Investigators tell you what they are permitted to comment on, usually no more, no less. I have to imagine far more information would have leaked out if he was being held here in the US.

I agree the pictures had nothing to do with the disappearance of Robyn, so why was that personal information shared with the media?

When you travel to a foreign country you are subject to their rules. He is a suspect in what the authorities feel was a crime. He has no privacy. The minute you leave this country you leave all that behind.

Aruba falls under Dutch law and the ERVM, article 8 below:

Right to respect private and family life
There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

I would say 1.5M is a huge motive when your story does not match eye witness statements about where you were and when.

We have to wonder if the the version of that fisherman is credible, it had almost been 4 weeks, and even though he had seen so many things the police at that point still had shown no interest to talk with him.

He descibed Giordano as so drunk he could not sit straight nor talk, while we have seen the footage of Giordano walking that afternoon and he was not stumbling drunk as Sergio Silvo described.

The first thing any attorney will tell you is to shut your mouth. Not make media appearances and certainly do not, do not take a flight from Aruba ending in NYC for an "exclusive" the following day on GMA followed up by a media tour of various talk shows. That just blows me away that he would even consider it.

I feel different, I think it is fair to say that everyone here on this board has an opinion about Giordano, and that all of that mainly being based upon what was said in the media about him.
He still has to walk the streets, buy food, work, be with his children, I can see him wanting to at least try to set the record straight.

 

[neesaki]

-respectfullly snipped by me-

Personally I found Giordano genuine throughout his interview, especially considering the fact that he had almost 4 months to prepare himself in case he would be giving any interviews.

1-When asked about the insurance money he said that money felt dirty, said it was the insurance that has put him in jail and cost him 4 months of his life.
If he were slick and deceiving he could have said the insurance money felt dirty because Robyn lost her life, but he did not say that.

2-Same with going over events in the sea, he said he got water in his mouth, strong currents etc, while (since he wears lenses) he could have said he had gotten water into his eyes due to the currents and due to the fact that he wears lenses he became disoriented and that he had no choice but to go back to shore, take care of his eye problem and only after that was able to notice Robyn was no where to be found.

3-He could have said that he loved Robyn, and that he was devastated by her having gone missing.

He never said any of those things (and there are much more things he could have said yet didn't), while he could have, none of it could be checked, no one could have objected to it maybe some would doubt it but still, he would have come across maybe as more likable then he was perceived now.

But the fact that he choose not to lie about those things, tells me he is just not some slick liar and deceiver. Therefor I do not think the interview harmed him, plus his explanation about the insurance was very reasonable. IMO

I certainly respect your opinion, Micheline, but since you see GG as being believable in these interviews, I would like to ask for some clarification:

For one, do you find GG believable in his claim in the interview, that he returned to the car to refill their cups with "juice" (his words), rather than vodka, as per previous reports by LE and media?

And, do you believe GG's claim in the interview, that he and Robyn were sober? Why I ask this, is because due to all other accounts, this is a direct conflict by him and witnesses, specifically, that he and Robyn had not only been drinking vodka but also, that she had taken a sleeping pill. TIA



Just a question, I am very interested in hearing all sides. TIA

 

[Micheline]

One thing I noticed when GG was giving his interview with GR, I think. He talks about "human trafficing.." in Aruba being the number one money maker not tourism. He then went on to explain how boats from SA (15 miles away) bring people to Aruba and drop them in the water to swim ashore. That is not human trafficing, that is an immigration problem for Aruba and I do believe that does happen.

That is human trafficking.
The people who take often large amounts of people into their boats and drop them of at the coasts let these people pay large amounts of money to be traveled to this particular space.
On the mainland that is also done via trucks.
Soon as a boat or truckowner has illegals in his boat/truck/container he is being charged with human trafficking.

I was really shocked to hear GG say that and JB let him. Surely JB knows the difference or his client decided to add something they had not gone over. Maybe that is what JB meant by too much detail. jmo

Giordano was interrupted by the interviewer, but in his next interview when asked about it he continued his story by saying that it is known to happen that a number of people who are dropped of by these boats near the coast drown while trying to make it to shore.
To me that was a confirmation he did not suggest Robyn had gotten into the hands of human traffickers as has been claimed by the media.

 

[LambChop]

-respectfully snipped by me-



A public prosecutor has to refrain from venting his personal feelings about a suspect to the media. Stein was interviewed in his position of being the Chief Prosecutor, he was not talking to someone of the record. This just cannot be excused.




I agree the pictures had nothing to do with the disappearance of Robyn, so why was that personal information shared with the media?



Aruba falls under Dutch law and the ERVM, article 8 below:

Right to respect private and family life
There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.



We have to wonder if the the version of that fisherman is credible, it had almost been 4 weeks, and even though he had seen so many things the police at that point still had shown no interest to talk with him.

He descibed Giordano as so drunk he could not sit straight nor talk, while we have seen the footage of Giordano walking that afternoon and he was not stumbling drunk as Sergio Silvo described.



I feel different, I think it is fair to say that everyone here on this board has an opinion about Giordano, and that all of that mainly being based upon what was said in the media about him.
He still has to walk the streets, buy food, work, be with his children, I can see him wanting to at least try to set the record straight.

It is a foreign country and we just can't expect the same rules to apply there that apply here. Even in the US when LE gives press conferences they release certain information to the public. It is the public's right to know. We would all be yelling at our congressmen if certain information were withheld from us. GG is now, and has been, a suspect in RG's disappearance and nothing can change that. It is a fact.

He does have a right to go about his business without being harassed. If he is innocent he will have to put this behind him. As far as his statements and setting the record straight most feel he just was not being honest. I wish Dr. Glass would do a report on him. I'd be interested in how she feels he did during the interviews. And I must admit there were times when he did appear to be honest about what he was saying, but other times he appeared to be not telling the truth. jmo

 

[neesaki]

That is human trafficking.
The people who take often large amounts of people into their boats and drop them of at the coasts let these people pay large amounts of money to be traveled to this particular space.
On the mainland that is also done via trucks.
Soon as a boat or truckowner has illegals in his boat/truck/container he is being charged with human trafficking.



Giordano was interrupted by the interviewer, but in his next interview when asked about it he continued his story by saying that it is known to happen that a number of people who are dropped of by these boats near the coast drown while trying to make it to shore.
To me that was a confirmation he did not suggest Robyn had gotten into the hands of human traffickers as has been claimed by the media.

This is puzzling to me. What is your view as to why GG would bring up the "human trafficking" theory. Again, TIA.

 

[LambChop]

That is human trafficking.
The people who take often large amounts of people into their boats and drop them of at the coasts let these people pay large amounts of money to be traveled to this particular space.
On the mainland that is also done via trucks.
Soon as a boat or truckowner has illegals in his boat/truck/container he is being charged with human trafficking.



Giordano was interrupted by the interviewer, but in his next interview when asked about it he continued his story by saying that it is known to happen that a number of people who are dropped of by these boats near the coast drown while trying to make it to shore.
To me that was a confirmation he did not suggest Robyn had gotten into the hands of human traffickers as has been claimed by the media.

Well, we do not know that for sure. As I said the Arubans are very watchful as to whato is out in their waters mainly because it is a traffic route for the SA drug cartel. I do know they have a lot of helicopters in the air running up and down the beach. But my understanding is people want to work in Aruba and SA boats bring them over and try to smuggle them in. When they are caught they get sent home. They come of their own free will to find work and live there which I think is not the same as human trafficing. If anyone is helping them it is probably relatives who are already on the island. This is what GG was describing and if it had nothing to do with Robyn why would he mention it. Seems odd. jmo