ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 8

[neesaki]

It is a foreign country and we just can't expect the same rules to apply there that apply here. Even in the US when LE gives press conferences they release certain information to the public. It is the public's right to know. We would all be yelling at our congressmen if certain information were withheld from us. GG is now, and has been, a suspect in RG's disappearance and nothing can change that. It is a fact.

He does have a right to go about his business without being harassed. If he is innocent he will have to put this behind him. As far as his statements and setting the record straight most feel he just was not being honest. I wish Dr. Glass would do a report on him. I'd be interested in how she feels he did during the interviews. And I must admit there were times when he did appear to be honest about what he was saying, but other times he appeared to be not telling the truth. jmo

BBM. I agree. Let me say, that I have had more than my share of pathological liars and sociopaths. Our everyday decent human being has no reason to doubt anything these "apparently normal people" have to say. That's because they believe they have no reason to distrust most who come across as "believable and sincere". Unfortunately, a more than comfortable percentage of these people are not what they portray themselves to be. Instead, they are manipulative and deceptive, such as he who we are now discussing. :twocents:

 

[Micheline]

I certainly respect your opinion, Micheline, but since you see GG as being believable in these interviews, I would like to ask for some clarification:

For one, do you find GG believable in his claim in the interview, that he returned to the car to refill their cups with "juice" (his words), rather than vodka, as per previous reports by LE and media?

ALE did not report it was vodka.
He did not refill their cups, he was carrying just one cup in his hand, so he did fill one cup (as he admits) which may have been his own cup.

Personally I think he was carrying something stronger to drink in the trunk of his car, but I do not know that for sure.

And, do you believe GG's claim in the interview, that he and Robyn were sober? Why I ask this, is because due to all other accounts, this is a direct conflict by him and witnesses, specifically, that he and Robyn had not only been drinking vodka but also, that she had taken a sleeping pill. TIA

Just a question, I am very interested in hearing all sides. TIA

I do not believe they were sober as in not having had a single drink. Richard Forester has claimed that Robyn had a drinking problem, if that is true she would be used to drinking alcohol on a regular bases, maybe the same for Giordano. Having a drink or 3 would then not have affected them hugely. I think he can still see himself as sober when "only" having had 3 drinks.

I myself never drink alcohol, but I have noticed that people who do drink alcohol always tend to claim to have had much less to drink then they actually had, also when not suspected of murder.
It seems like common behavior and Giordano doing so does not indicate to me that all the other things he was saying was besides the truth also. IMO

 

[Micheline]

This is puzzling to me. What is your view as to why GG would bring up the "human trafficking" theory. Again, TIA.

He said that in his next interview, while speaking to fellow prisoners he had heard that one of the places human traffickers drop of illegal immigrants was very close to where he and Robyn were snorkeling.
He said it was known that often some of these people did not make it to shore.

So I guess he wanted to point out that people drowning at that particlar spot was not something unusual. IMO

 

[Micheline]

Well, we do not know that for sure. As I said the Arubans are very watchful as to whato is out in their waters mainly because it is a traffic route for the SA drug cartel. I do know they have a lot of helicopters in the air running up and down the beach. But my understanding is people want to work in Aruba and SA boats bring them over and try to smuggle them in. When they are caught they get sent home. They come of their own free will to find work and live there which I think is not the same as human trafficing. If anyone is helping them it is probably relatives who are already on the island. This is what GG was describing and if it had nothing to do with Robyn why would he mention it. Seems odd. jmo

-bolded by me-


They do, more so they pay a lot of money to be smuggled in, that is why the people who smuggle them in are called human traffickers.

 

[katydid23]

-bolded by me-


They do, more so they pay a lot of money to be smuggled in, that is why the people who smuggle them in are called human traffickers.

Right. But the type of human traffickers that GG was implying took Robyn are the type that kidnap women for sexual slaves and forced prostitution. NOT the type that bring illegals into the country to work in the hotels.

 

[LambChop]

He said that in his next interview, while speaking to fellow prisoners he had heard that one of the places human traffickers drop of illegal immigrants was very close to where he and Robyn were snorkeling.
He said it was known that often some of these people did not make it to shore.

So I guess he wanted to point out that people drowning at that particlar spot was not something unusual. IMO

All fishing boats have to go to a designated area to drop off their catch. It use to be open docks, now it is fenced in and an immigration's officer is there. Anyone coming that close to Aruba would have to be pretty far out for the Arubans not to know they were there. I was told they track all boats and ships and know who they are and where they are, what they are doing and where they are going.

So it they were quite a way out I can't see where anyone smuggling people into Aruba would profit much because not many would make it to the beach without giving themselves away.

The refinery is there and the prison is also right up the beach so it is not as if the area is isolated. I've been there and while it is possible I think it would be highly unlikely. jmo

 

[LambChop]

-bolded by me-


They do, more so they pay a lot of money to be smuggled in, that is why the people who smuggle them in are called human traffickers.

How would they make money? Aruba takes 50% of a foreign national's pay in taxes. lol Not a real deal breaker. They'd do better staying in the drug business. Maybe not less dangerous but certainly more money than Aruba.

I can't help but feel that whoever told GG that about the boats and human trafficing and drugs are the main money makers in Aruba had to have been pulling his leg. They were probably rolling all over the floor with laughter when they heard that he repeated it. jmo

 

[neesaki]

One thing I noticed when GG was giving his interview with GR, I think. He talks about "human trafficing.." in Aruba being the number one money maker not tourism. He then went on to explain how boats from SA (15 miles away) bring people to Aruba and drop them in the water to swim ashore. That is not human trafficing, that is an immigration problem for Aruba and I do believe that does happen.

Things are not so great in SA now and I could see someone trying to get work in Aruba and I'm sure Aruba has a quota as to how many foreign nationals they bring into the country to work legally. So essentially they have the same problem we do, illegals coming into the country to work and live.

I can remember sitting in the Aruban airport years ago and some young man came up and removed a cigarette from a pack on our table and walked off with it. My husband walked over the one of the policeman who was in the area and told the officer what happened. The officer said that was stealing. The next thing we knew the man was in handcuffs and being lead out by other officers (he also took soda from the snackbar without paying.) When my husband approached the officer again, the officer said they found an expired airline ticket to the US on him and he was there in Aruba illegally from Columbia. It was a problem then with SA's coming into the country by sea.

At some point we were stopped from buying fish from fisherman when they brought their boats in. Now that area is all fenced in and there is a official there from immigrations so you can't get back there anymore. At least you could not the last time I tried. I was told they know every boat that goes in and out of there. And I would imagine that they keep tight control over what goes in and what goes out. They also don't want the drug cartel setting up shop there. We all have seen what has happened in Mexico. That would kill the tourist business in Aruba for sure.

I was really shocked to hear GG say that and JB let him. Surely JB knows the difference or his client decided to add something they had not gone over. Maybe that is what JB meant by too much detail. jmo

I have to say that I have doubts at this point of this being a sex trafficking issue. My mention of this is primarily because it is apparent that Robyn's boyfriend, RF, still believes that the trafficking issue is a concern and is a very strong possibility. I can certainly understand this and also empathize with him as well.

The thing is, that until Robyn's body has been recovered, we have no proof of what has happened, so it is just my opinion that the trafficking theory is one possibility that should be fully investigated.

I just see no way out of it if we are ever to find out what really happened to Robyn. It appears to me that GG will never tell the truth. He is so obviously a habitual liar that his whole identity is completely ingrained in his world of lies. This leaves him with little or no ability to move beyond that.

And, BTW, it is my opinion that he knows exactly what happened. So if we don't investigate this case to the fullest extent, we will never find Robyn or what happened to her. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I have to say that I have doubts at this point of this being a sex trafficking issue. My mention of this is primarily because it is apparent that Robyn's boyfriend, RF, still believes that the trafficking issue is a concern and is a very strong possibility. I can certainly understand this and also empathize with him as well.

The thing is, that until Robyn's body has been recovered, we have no proof of what has happened, so it is just my opinion that the trafficking theory is one possibility that should be fully investigated.

I just see no way out of it if we are ever to find out what really happened to Robyn. It appears to me that GG will never tell the truth. He is so obviously a habitual liar that his whole identity is completely ingrained in his world of lies. This leaves him with little or no ability to move beyond that.

And, BTW, it is my opinion that he knows exactly what happened. So if we don't investigate this case to the fullest extent, we will never find Robyn or what happened to her. JMO

I think the only way it was a human trafficking crime is IF GG sold her to the criminals himself.

 

[LambChop]

It seems to me they bought a lot of vodka for on three full days vacation. They could not bring it back so they would have to drink it or toss it. jmo

 

[neesaki]

It seems to me they bought a lot of vodka for on three full days vacation. They could not bring it back so they would have to drink it or toss it. jmo

Naahh, they weren't drinking vodka, :liar: they were just drinking juice, just juice !!! :floorlaugh:

 

[LambChop]

Naahh, they weren't drinking vodka, :liar: they were just drinking juice, just juice !!! :floorlaugh:

Well.....they do have mango vodka. lol

 

[neesaki]

Well.....they do have mango vodka. lol

Really, when you stop to think about it, he never said what kind of "juice" they were drinking did he? :waitasec:

 

[Micheline]

All fishing boats have to go to a designated area to drop off their catch. It use to be open docks, now it is fenced in and an immigration's officer is there. Anyone coming that close to Aruba would have to be pretty far out for the Arubans not to know they were there. I was told they track all boats and ships and know who they are and where they are, what they are doing and where they are going.

So it they were quite a way out I can't see where anyone smuggling people into Aruba would profit much because not many would make it to the beach without giving themselves away.

The refinery is there and the prison is also right up the beach so it is not as if the area is isolated. I've been there and while it is possible I think it would be highly unlikely. jmo

I looked up something that I suddenly recalled I had come across very early in this case when googling Nanki Country Club (that was initially mentioned in the media as the place where they went snorkeling, behind the Nanki Country Club) and that article was about human trafficking. This is what I came across back then:

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Smuggling people from Venezuela to Aruba continues. Saturday, once again, a victim was registered after a boat which originated in Venezuela let off a some illegal persons at the Dog Cemetary (santana di cacho) where they were able to get to solid ground behind the former Nanki Country Club.


More about this here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...188.130;wap2+nanki+country+club+aruba&ct=clnk

 

[LambChop]

I looked up something that I suddenly recalled I had come across very early in this case when googling Nanki Country Club (that was initially mentioned in the media as the place where they went snorkeling, behind the Nanki Country Club) and that article was about human trafficking. This is what I came across back then:

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Smuggling people from Venezuela to Aruba continues. Saturday, once again, a person remained registered after a boat which originated in Venezuela let off a some illegal persons at the Dog Cemetary (santana di cacho) where they were able to get to solid ground behind the former Nanki Country Club.

More about this here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...188.130;wap2+nanki+country+club+aruba&ct=clnk

And the Dog Cemetary is a short distance from the prison where they have cameras. lol I'm guessing whoever brought them in is not aware of that and that is why they got caught. Further up it is way too turbulent for anyone to be doing that. As I said they track all their traffic so bringing a boat in that is unknown they will know about it.

You can't blame the SA's who want to come into Aruba to work. It's the same here in this country with Mexico and people coming over the border day and night to make a better life for themselves. If they get caught, they get sent back....same as here. jmo

 

[Micheline]

And the Dog Cemetary is a short distance from the prison where they have cameras. lol I'm guessing whoever brought them in is not aware of that and that is why they got caught. Further up it is way too turbulent for anyone to be doing that. As I said they track all their traffic so bringing a boat in that is unknown they will know about it.

Indeed they may not have been aware.
Btw I adjusted my post because "victima" was translated as "person", so the article said one of the persons did not make it to shore.
It does fit what Giordano said, location aswell as people sometimes not making it to shore, even if this was one of the few google hits there were early August to Nanki Beach Club.

You can't blame the SA's who want to come into Aruba to work. It's the same here in this country with Mexico and people coming over the border day and night to make a better life for themselves. If they get caught, they get sent back....same as here. jmo

I fully understand anyone going to another country in hopes of making a better life for themselves, more so I wish they all would succeed.

 

[neesaki]

ALE did not report it was vodka.
He did not refill their cups, he was carrying just one cup in his hand, so he did fill one cup (as he admits) which may have been his own cup.

Personally I think he was carrying something stronger to drink in the trunk of his car, but I do not know that for sure.



I do not believe they were sober as in not having had a single drink. Richard Forester has claimed that Robyn had a drinking problem, if that is true she would be used to drinking alcohol on a regular bases, maybe the same for Giordano. Having a drink or 3 would then not have affected them hugely. I think he can still see himself as sober when "only" having had 3 drinks.

I myself never drink alcohol, but I have noticed that people who do drink alcohol always tend to claim to have had much less to drink then they actually had, also when not suspected of murder.
It seems like common behavior and Giordano doing so does not indicate to me that all the other things he was saying was besides the truth also. IMO

You do remember that the witnesses in the restaurant and on the beach claimed that in Robyn and GG were intoxicated. In the restaurant, Robyn seemed "woozy" and on the beach GG was so drunk that LE had to wait for him to sober up to question him. This, to me, sounds like an outright contradiction to GG's claim that they were "sober"?

 

[neesaki]

He said that in his next interview, while speaking to fellow prisoners he had heard that one of the places human traffickers drop of illegal immigrants was very close to where he and Robyn were snorkeling.
He said it was known that often some of these people did not make it to shore.

So I guess he wanted to point out that people drowning at that particlar spot was not something unusual. IMO

My real point in bringing this up has to do with this question: Why would GG bring this human trafficking question up now, after all this time he has been totally adamant that Robyn "drowned" while they were "snorkeling".

Does it not look like he is now attempting to cast doubt on his original story? Does it not look like he is now attempting to give himself an "out", so that now he doesn't really know what happened? Really, which is it?

 

[LambChop]

You do remember that the witnesses in the restaurant and on the beach claimed that in Robyn and GG were intoxicated. In the restaurant, Robyn seemed "woozy" and on the beach GG was so drunk that LE had to wait for him to sober up to question him. This, to me, sounds like an outright contradiction to GG's claim that they were "sober"?

Drunk drivers get into a car and drive because they believe they are not that intoxicated. People who drink often are not a good judge of how much is too much. It has been proven in countless tests where they ask someone to drink a small amount of alcohol and they are given a task to do and they cannot do it. To them they seemed perfectly sober but clearly were impaired. I limit myself to one drink when I do have something which is rare and usually not if I'm driving.

I doubt they just had one drink. Usually serious drinkers take their drinks with them in the car. I'd say they were serious drinkers carrying around their own cups. We see them in the pictures from the night before at the party with their blue cups. jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind I do not mind you posting your differences in our opinions but do not make it personal and you are getting personal. I'm here to discuss this case so please leave the personal questions out of the discussion. Thanks

The fisherman gave a totally different account than GG in his statement. The fisherman claims they left the beach after walking along the beach area in their car and did not go into the water. Another fact is if his sneakers were weighing him down they would have been prior to getting out into deeper water and not just all of a sudden after swimming for over an hour. There are just too many things wrong with his statements.

Again, it's a sleuthing thread. It's about finding the truth and what really happened. Any statement that GG gives is up for discussion. Presently GG is the only suspect, the only one and he is still considered a suspect by the Aruban authorities. Every word he says will be gone over and over by authorities. jmo

The "fisherman"--do we know he is a credable witness ?
After swiming for over an "hour" is "all of a sudden"?

There were so many "witness accounts" that were reported and debunked, do we really know what accounts can be used for comparison to GG's account. I mean the NE actually went so far as to recreate the " Lobby fight" that had GG threatening to kill RG and shoving her into the elevator. What about the couple who saw her being attacked in the white SUV, the witness who saw her being buried alive, the nap GG supposedly took while they were searching for Robyn, and on and on. Who says the fisherman is to be believed.
I just find it hard to acuse GG of being caught in account discrepancies, when we do not know what accounts to use as the basis for those discrepancies. Even Taco Stein when asked stated he lied--about the weather and the currents. These are subject to interpretation not lies?