ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 8

[LambChop]

Your explanation is perfect. I just hope and pray he doesn't get away with it. There are way too many people getting away with murder now a days!! It's infuriating

But even if he is never charged, we all know who he is. That information is out there so hopefully no other woman will fall prey to him. jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

GG is reported as being in serious financial trouble so how many trips do we think he may have had planned. My understanding was he was able to finally get RG to agree to go and he booked the trip and it was done so fast that he did not have time to mail in the insurance form but had to fax it before they left the next day. Sounds more like he was planning this as he was going along since the other women refused to go with him. If he was not "begging" than why did he get so angry with RG when she said she did not want to do a cruise with him in April. Her friends claim he was really angry with her. For someone who has no money and can't pay his child support he seems to plan an awful lot of trips???????? jmo

So are you saying that GG just planned this elaborate "insurance scam/murder" as "he was going along" . So within a few days he was able to plan a trip that would garner him 1.5 million dollars in insurance money he would acquire from the "planned" murder of whomever he could beg to accompany him to a island he had never been before and it happened to be poor RG. Wow, as I write this it actually seems less likely that he murdered anyone, least of all Robyn.:twocents:

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Your explanation is perfect. I just hope and pray he doesn't get away with it. There are way too many people getting away with murder now a days!! It's infuriating

HUH? Maybe you can explain something I am not seeing?:waitasec:

 

[Dushi]

Why do you say Nancy was conned? I don't think the Mother allowed her Daughter to do that, that is why she intercepted the call, took over and nipped it in the bud. She did not want her Daughter to have anything to do with GG or any other Man for that matter. She seemed like a very caring Mother to me and knew to stop her Daughter from meeting men online.

You may want to do a little research
I don't know... just saying....

 

[LambChop]

So are you saying that GG just planned this elaborate "insurance scam/murder" as "he was going along" . So within a few days he was able to plan a trip that would garner him 1.5 million dollars in insurance money he would acquire from the "planned" murder of whomever he could beg to accompany him to a island he had never been before and it happened to be poor RG. Wow, as I write this it actually seems less likely that he murdered anyone, least of all Robyn.:twocents:

That is not what I said. If he was trying to get all these women to go with him I would think he had a plan all worked out in his head.....it just wasn't a very good one. He took someone who had a drinking problem and claims she took a sleeping pill in the middle of the day. Must have been a real fun trip for her.

He's giving all the details. We are just looking at them trying to figure out what makes sense. Logically if you put all of the details he was given and they don't make sense it did not happen the way he said it did. That is basic common sense.

I'm just going over what we know and what "details" he, himself, has provided plus all the other information that has been brought to light. If we focus just on one thing we could find other reasons why it may not make sense on that one particular matter. This is not about just one inconsistency. It's about a long list of inconsistencies that just make no sense. The investigator's job is to punch holes in any inconsistencies and try to find the truth. The Aruban's could not get to the truth but that does not change the fact that his story just does not match the facts as they know them. This is why he is a prime suspect and the only suspect. We didn't make GG the primary suspect.......he did. He did it with the help of his American attorney, IMO.

Do I think he waited till the last minute to make his plan? No. I think it's just like fishing. You have a plan to catch a fish. You bait the hook. You wait and wait and wait until finally they grab the bait and then you reel your catch in. He's no stranger to baiting a hook. jmo

 

[Nova]

Exactly. This is why his story makes no sense to LE, not taking into consideration all the other claims he has made that make no sense. Put them all together and this is why they held him for 4 months. I think that judge wanted him out of the country and out of their hair. jmo

Perhaps. But despite what Baez claimed on GMA (that GG's release shows Aruba LE has "not one shred of evidence"), in fact, we know from that other Aruba case that a detained suspect comes up for periodic review before a judge. At each review, the level of proof required to continue the detention goes up, as per Dutch and Aruban law.

So GG's release may just mean that while ALE had enough evidence to hold him for four months, they didn't have enough to hold him any longer (or to take him to trial).

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

That is not what I said. If he was trying to get all these women to go with him I would think he had a plan all worked out in his head.....it just wasn't a very good one He took someone who had a drinking problem and claims she took a sleeping pill in the middle of the day. Must have been a real fun trip for her.

He's giving all the details. We are just looking at them trying to figure out what makes sense. Logically if you put all of the details he was given and they don't make sense it did not happen the way he said it did. That is basic common sense.

I'm just going over what we know and what "details" he, himself, has provided plus all the other information that has been brought to light. If we focus just on one thing we could find other reasons why it may not make sense on that one particular matter. This is not about just one inconsistency. It's about a long list of inconsistencies that just make no sense. The investigator's job is to punch holes in any inconsistencies and try to find the truth. The Aruban's could not get to the truth but that does not change the fact that his story just does not match the facts as they know them. This is why he is a prime suspect and the only suspect. We didn't make GG the primary suspect.......he did. He did it with the help of his American attorney, IMO. jmo

Forgive me , not trying to beat a dead horse here.If he was trying to get all these women to go with him and it was a preconceived plan, would that mean anyone would do. Same plan for whoever took him up on his offer, even if it was the mother/daughter team. He would just off them both?

...and I know there is this "long list of inconsistencies", but the "motive" is Insurance fraud, and the Facts surrounding that should be evaluated first and foremost, don't you think? I mean if there are no facts to back up his "insurance fraud motive" then what is his motive. That is why I am dwelling on the facts vs speculation of the insurance claims. Just sayin.

 

[Nova]

So little involving this case is obvious to me
The insurance policy, it is one of the big things that make gary look guilty of a crime, it is a motive.

But I try to keep in mind that he paid for the trip, Robyn was unemployed
Its not unusual to me that he paid for the insurance as well.

The beneficiary on her policy also makes him look guilty
We do not know how she felt about that.
She may have been fully aware and in total agreement

I expect though may be wrong, that if the signature had been forged, he would be arrested by now for insurance fraud

Dushi, I'm sure you are right that the insurance by itself isn't proof that GG murdered RG. Not even if one considers the phone calls immediately after RG's disappearance.

But I keep thinking that if I were to insure a travel companion, I would tend to assume that whatever might befall my companion (plane crash, hurricane, tsunami, robbery/murder, etc.) would most likely befall me as well.

So even assuming that GG figured he was entitled to any payout because he bought the insurance (quite possible), I'm surprised he didn't make RG's beneficiaries the same as his own.

Still not proof of murder, of course; just something that puzzles me.

 

[Nova]

OK

I don't have a great understand of insurance policies and the law

So its not illegal to forge a signature on an insurance policy
It only becomes illegal if you make a claim?

It's probably illegal at the time of the forgery, but until you make a claim, there is no actual theft or attempted theft, so it's probably less of a crime. LE would want to wait for a claim in order to raise the relevant charge.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor have I worked insurance fraud cases. Just guessing here.)

 

[Dushi]

It's probably illegal at the time of the forgery, but until you make a claim, there is no actual theft or attempted theft, so it's probably less of a crime. LE would want to wait for a claim in order to raise the relevant charge.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor have I worked insurance fraud cases. Just guessing here.)

Thanks for your answer

One question... If FBI could prove the signature was a fraud, wouldn't that strengthen the murder charges in Aruba

It seems to prove motive

 

[Nova]

......as stated many times here, this was not his first time at the dance. He had taken insurance policies out on many of his prior trips. Trips , some here, have suggested should be looked at more closely-- like where he has been and any missing persons??? Like he is a serial killer.

I don't think you can have it both ways---"he's an idiot" --but somehow the "idiot" was a deliberate "planner" of insurance fraud involving murder in another country.:waitasec:

Simply buying a policy hardly makes him a "deliberate" planner. No more than checking out a remote beach at a certain time to see if it will be crowded.

I think the truth is there are few "master criminals" outside of fiction; or if they exist in great numbers in real life, they are too good to get caught. The criminals we do hear about (which may or may not eventually include GG) seem to make a lot of mistakes.

 

[katydid23]

Forgive me , not trying to beat a dead horse here.If he was trying to get all these women to go with him and it was a preconceived plan, would that mean anyone would do. Same plan for whoever took him up on his offer, even if it was the mother/daughter team. He would just off them both?

...and I know there is this "long list of inconsistencies", but the "motive" is Insurance fraud, and the Facts surrounding that should be evaluated first and foremost, don't you think? I mean if there are no facts to back up his "insurance fraud motive" then what is his motive. That is why I am dwelling on the facts vs speculation of the insurance claims. Just sayin.

I don't think he was that organized and rational and focused on one plan of action in his life. I think his motive for taking the teen and her mother was more of a shady, sexually motivated desire. He wanted to take pictures of the pretty young girl and even suggested to the mom that he be with both of them.

That fell through, so he began to focus upon RG. I don't think he would get the same $ for her pictures as he would have for the pretty young girl. So he thought of a different way to make some cash, imo.

 

[katydid23]

Also, just because he took out the life ins. policy, that did not mean he had to take any action. I think it was a plan B sort of thing. Then while on the trip it seems that things were not going well at all. She sent that text back home saying as much. And I think she drank a bit and was probably complaining and unhappy with things. So maybe that gave hims stronger urge to follow through with it. On the last day he went for it after doing a exploratory field trip the day before.

 

[Nova]

Thanks for your answer

One question... If FBI could prove the signature was a fraud, wouldn't that strengthen the murder charges in Aruba

It seems to prove motive

Put another way, while it may be illegal to forge someone's name, if no claim is filed, then the forger can always say he just forged the name for convenience and for that reason decided not to make a claim. Only one juror has to believe him...

As for this case, I think you're right: a forged signature might very well be seen as evidence of pre-meditated murder. I'd be very surprised if the FBI doesn't have handwriting analysts working this angle.

But again, that evidence only gets stronger if and when a claim is made. Even if the FBI has concluded RG's signature were forged (and I have no evidence such a conclusion has been reached), I wouldn't expect them to announce the fact.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Put another way, while it may be illegal to forge someone's name, if no claim is filed, then the forger can always say he just forged the name for convenience and for that reason decided not to make a claim. Only one juror has to believe him...

As for this case, I think you're right: a forged signature might very well be seen as evidence of pre-meditated murder. I'd be very surprised if the FBI doesn't have handwriting analysts working this angle.

But again, that evidence only gets stronger if and when a claim is made. Even if the FBI has concluded RG's signature were forged (and I have no evidence such a conclusion has been reached), I wouldn't expect them to announce the fact.

Hi Nova,

Just wondering why it would take the FBI so long for the handwriting analysis to be completed, and if they found it was forged, why might they not release that info? Wouldn't that have been evidence enough to continue to hold GG over in Aruba?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I don't think he was that organized and rational and focused on one plan of action in his life. I think his motive for taking the teen and her mother was more of a shady, sexually motivated desire. He wanted to take pictures of the pretty young girl and even suggested to the mom that he be with both of them.

That fell through, so he began to focus upon RG. I don't think he would get the same $ for her pictures as he would have for the pretty young girl. So he thought of a different way to make some cash, imo.

Oh I don't know about that ,katydid? So he went from making money "selling photos" of young girls to the "murder" for his money? Pretty big swing :dunnohoto's? :smiliescale: Murder?

 

[MaryAnn]

HUH? Maybe you can explain something I am not seeing?:waitasec:

If you don't see it I don't know if anything I say can change your mind. You seem pretty certain he is innocent even though he has had two restraining orders, has tried to strangle a woman, took out a 1.5 mil policy on RG, begged anyone who would go with him to go to Aruba even though he's BROKE, has been caught lieing several times, wasn't even wet when he supposedly swam for his life, had his wig on when snorkeling, had his tennis shoes on too, begged a mother/daughter duo to go with him. Has absolutely no respect for women at all. I'm sure I can think of more if I tried.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Simply buying a policy hardly makes him a "deliberate" planner. No more than checking out a remote beach at a certain time to see if it will be crowded.

I think the truth is there are few "master criminals" outside of fiction; or if they exist in great numbers in real life, they are too good to get caught. The criminals we do hear about (which may or may not eventually include GG) seem to make a lot of mistakes.

You are so right--but buying one as a "motive" for murder takes that to another level--Criminal planning.

 

[LambChop]

Forgive me , not trying to beat a dead horse here.If he was trying to get all these women to go with him and it was a preconceived plan, would that mean anyone would do. Same plan for whoever took him up on his offer, even if it was the mother/daughter team. He would just off them both?

...and I know there is this "long list of inconsistencies", but the "motive" is Insurance fraud, and the Facts surrounding that should be evaluated first and foremost, don't you think? I mean if there are no facts to back up his "insurance fraud motive" then what is his motive. That is why I am dwelling on the facts vs speculation of the insurance claims. Just sayin.

I think the horse is dead so no need to beat it, for sure. lol

The motive is he is the only person who stands to gain by her death. That is the motive. The inconsistencies in his story leads one to believe RG did not die accidentally from drowning on her own as he claims. He's a scary man. jmo

 

[LambChop]

[/B]

Oh I don't know about that ,katydid? So he went from making money "selling photos" of young girls to the "murder" for his money? Pretty big swing :dunnohoto's? :smiliescale: Murder?

So he's an overachiever. What's new??? jmo