ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

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  • #1,061
In the US they would build a case, then arrest him. In Aruba they had to arrest him to keep him on the island while they did their investigation. At the point GG was leaving the island there was enough evidence to arrest him as a suspect of a crime in her death. Their investigation is still ongoing so they either had to charge him or let him go. At this point in their investigation the judge felt they are not ready to charge him, even though T. Stein's opinion differs from the judge. So essentially he is not free from being charged of a crime in the future. Until Aruba dismisses GG as a suspect and claims there was no crime GG could still be sent back for charges. jmo

Yes, I agree with you and from what I am reading, it seems he can be charged in the US for any crime originating there

The judge let him go because he did not feel there was sufficient evidence to hold him
They could have held him for one more period without pressing charges
 
  • #1,062
[/B]



That is very true, it would certainly change everything

One thing though, they could have held him longer but a judge ruled they didn't have enough to do so

At the time GG was released I believe they said it was going to take months to go over GG's computer files and sort them out. So what would be the point in detaining him if this investigation was expected to be ongoing for the next 6 months or longer. JB assured the judge there would be no problem with GG coming back, that he would not resist. jmo
 
  • #1,063
You are correct
Other than the fact that Robyn is missing and circumstances are very questionable to say the least, there is no proof a murder took place

And because there is no evidence of a crime that would stand up in a court of law, Aruba set GG free

This is where I am.

Just a theory I have for now

We know that they knew each other and better then most friends know each other, anyway
She loved to be photographed and he loved photographing her, I think he took it too far and there was an accident. I don't know if she was in the water or not it doesn't matter to me. They are both adults and she was there with him under a lie to her boyfriend. She didn't have a job and probably needed the money. I for one did not believe that he "took" out insurance and then killed her he is not a prize but he's not stupid, it came with the tickets, so what if he did bump it up, why not. I will say that chances are he knows what happened to her.
 
  • #1,064
Yes, I agree with you and from what I am reading, it seems he can be charged in the US for any crime originating there

The judge let him go because he did not feel there was sufficient evidence to hold him
They could have held him for one more period without pressing charges

That the beauty of America, they can't hold you without charges.
 
  • #1,065
"If you file a charge then you have to write the suspicions you have, and that means you have to be clear about what exactly has happened," Stein told NBC Washington.

"As long as we don't have the body or we don't have trace evidence or we don't have the material to bring us to a conclusion on that, it's very difficult to make a charge, because the only thing at this point in time you can say is she went missing on the second of August and we presume she's dead but we don't have evidence to that effect," he added."We feel that a crime has been committed," Stein said. "We still see Mr. Giordano as the main suspect in that."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4543655...-orders-release-suspect-robyn-gardners-death/
 
  • #1,066
So she 'accidentally' dies during a photoshoot,and he stages a snorkeling incident to cover it up? Sounds like murder to me...or at least manslaughter.
 
  • #1,067
This is where I am.

Just a theory I have for now

We know that they knew each other and better then most friends know each other, anyway
She loved to be photographed and he loved photographing her, I think he took it too far and there was an accident. I don't know if she was in the water or not it doesn't matter to me. They are both adults and she was there with him under a lie to her boyfriend. She didn't have a job and probably needed the money. I for one did not believe that he "took" out insurance and then killed her he is not a prize but he's not stupid, it came with the tickets, so what if he did bump it up, why not. I will say that chances are he knows what happened to her.

Insurance does not come with airline tickets. You have to purchase it separately. Life insurance is also a second option on travel insurance. Usually travel insurance covers for trip interruption, if you get sick. A $1.5M policy is an extra option that he specifically had to select himself. RG paid for her own ticket and yet GG also insured her. jmo
 
  • #1,068
  • #1,069
Just one thing about this insurance that bothers me

If he set this up, to murder her and collect on the insurance, why would he tell LE she had been drinking and taking sleeping pills?

If he planned this, why would he make the policy void with one statement?
 
  • #1,070
Just one thing about this insurance that bothers me

If he set this up, to murder her and collect on the insurance, why would he tell LE she had been drinking and taking sleeping pills?

If he planned this, why would he make the policy void with one statement?

I think that once he was being interviewd/interrogated about murder charges, then his worries about the insurance payout went out the window. He needed to explain how she might have drowned, in a way that would make him appear innocent. So if she was inebriated, he would seem to be off the hook for murder.
 
  • #1,071
Well then what happened to her? Do you think she died in a snorkeling accident? Because that is what GG swears happened. So if it is not that,then what?

Well let's put it this way the only way ANYONE will ever know with certainty is if the body of Robyn Gardner is found anywhere other than what would be consistent with a drowning. Since that is what GG has said, until there is proof(other than red flags) she was murdered, than I can only speak for myself, but the answer would be, YES, I have to believe it was an accident. Red flags and inconsistencies are not proof. They are what they are, red flags and inconsistencies. End of story. Agree?
 
  • #1,072
GG is the only person who can provide information to LE as to what happened. His information does not match the facts as LE knew them to be at the time which makes him their prime suspect. If he were truthful the facts and his story would match. Apparently they don't. jmo
 
  • #1,073
Well let's put it this way the only way ANYONE will ever know with certainty is if the body of Robyn Gardner is found anywhere other than what would be consistent with a drowning. Since that is what GG has said, until there is proof(other than red flags) she was murdered, than I can only speak for myself, but the answer would be, YES, I have to believe it was an accident. Red flags and inconsistencies are not proof. They are what they are, red flags and inconsistencies. End of story. Agree?

No, not the end of the story at all.

It does not matter what he 'says' happened because he had other motives for his story. He tried to cash in on an insurance policy for her death. That makes his story subject to questioning.

Also, his story is in conflict with witnesses that were present that day. So I do not believe there was a snorkeling accident because I do not believe she went snorkeling at all.
 
  • #1,074
RED FLAGS - What LE may have viewed as inconsistencies and facts as we know them.

GG claims they had been drinking vodka before leaving the hotel. RG had taken a sleeping pill. (LE – then brings RG snorkeling?)

GG told LE that RG had a bottle of pills in her purse but did not know what they were for. (LE – later finds bottle of sleeping pills on the nightstand.)

GG claims they went right into the water (late 4pm – 6pm period) – (LE – very late in the day to see much in 10 foot of water. Witnesses claim they did not go into the water but left in their car.)

When they came out of the water the first time , RG cut her toe on a rock trying to get into the water the second time and used the towel to stop the bleeding. (LE – no blood on the rock, nor visible anywhere except on the towel).

GG claimed they went into the water in a very rocky location. (LE – do they feel RG would have been able to get into the water without difficulty because of the rocks?)

GG had to wear sneakers into the water, according to GG RG went into the water barefoot. (LE – RG cut her foot but went in again?)

GG tells RG's mother that he got his sneakers wet searching for her daughter???

GG admits to drinking but says they were sober. (LE – has to wonder than how did he get so drunk between the time he was supposed to have been in the water and at the time they tried to question him?)

GG is asked if they were drinking at the bar. GG claims they did not order any drinks. (LE – They brought their drinks in with them. But did GG tell LE this?)

In video RG appears to be dressed to go out to dinner, makeup, hair down, etc. but GG said they had planned on going snorkeling. (LE – looking at the video LE has to wonder that she never changed into a suit even though she visited the bathroom twice?)

GG first claims the waters were getting rough, he signaled to RG by grabbing/tapping her foot to go back. (LE – confronted him with the weather report which stated the sea was very calm that day, mild currents.)

GG changes his story to his sneakers were weighing him down. (LE – note that he went into the water twice with sneakers and at 6pm he suddenly realizes his shoes are pulling him down from the weight??)

GG claims to have been swimming for a period of time in 10 foot of water. (LE – GG shows up on the video with his suit looking dry and his hair perfectly groomed. Actor reenactment you could see actor looked as if he had been swimming.)

Witnesses noticed a scratch only to be described as looking like a fingernail scratch on GG's neck/chin area. (LE – when asked if he had an argument with RG, GG responds he loved her and would not kill her.)

GG lying to ticket agent because he felt it was none of her business. (kind of speaks for itself)

RG's dress found thrown on the rocks a distance from the towels. (LE found this unusual. RG appears to have been a person who took time and care in her personal appearance and risking her favorite dress getting damaged does not seem logical when the car was right there??)

GG claims they were sunbathing in between going into the water. (LE – very late in the day, sun is low in the sky plus area is not great for sitting to sunbath.)

GG claims RG was going to get her extensions put in when she returned. (LE – statement from roommate said she had just done the extensions prior to leaving for Aruba and RG would have never exposed them to the seawater because of the expense and time involved.)

GG said when he left the restaurant it was to fill the cup and have a cigarette. (LE – at 3:57pm we see GG leaving with the cup. At 4pm he returns holding the cup up as if it contains liquid. They leave at approximately 4:13pm. GG is carrying a leftover's box and his cup, while RG is carrying her cup up as if she still has liquid in her cup.)

GG told LE he parked in front of the building. (LE – can see by the video that he parked in back which appears to be the side of the building.)

GG claims when confronted about the video that he parked on the side because of the shade. (LE – could be true if he had ice in the car.)

GG claims the car was out on the jetty in full sun for about 2 hours. (LE – GG brought out a leftover's box, parked in the shade while in the restaurant for less than ½ hour but leaves food in the car for over 2 hours in the heat and setting sun? Certainly no concerns about the shade now.)

Did RG insist on the box with the server because she expected to go back to the hotel and not snorkeling?? I would think/hope LE would have asked that question???

Not every crime comes tied up with a bow with DNA samples attached. Thank goodness our justice system does not wait until they find a body to charge someone with a crime. I guess I'm just not that gullible. Too many inconsistencies for me to believe she died from an accidential drowning. Way too many. His story stinks like yesterday's fish. jmo
 
  • #1,075
I have gone back and forth about his guilt since the beginning
I don't feel any closer to the truth now then I did in August
I simply don't know what happened

I will try to keep an open mind and view all truth that comes along
I am willing to accept whatever is proven as truth
 
  • #1,076
One thing is for sure the truth is he lied and not just one lie but a long string of lies. How many suspects arrested in a crime say well, yes I did it. They lie. So there are no surprises here that GG would be a prime suspect in RG's death. If it truly was an accident there was no reason to lie. Lying indicates that you have something to hide and what would he have to hide here. It could be that it was an accident but then he would have had no problem telling the truth. jmo
 
  • #1,077
BBM

There was a crime. Robyn is missing and presumed dead at this point. He was the last person to be with her before she went missing. His story has so many inconsistencies that it is obviously incorrect. So a crime HAS been committed. imo

Thought I'd re-post the inconsistencies, since the last one posted is so far back, I can't even remember 'where' it is!! LOL!!

Inconsistencies
GG admits she took the sleeping pill and was drinking. Even if they were both drinking moderately he should have enough sense to know she never should have been in the water. He drove her there and drove her right down to the water's edge. Who in their right mind, who claims to have cared for her, would have allowed her to get into the water. Of course witnesses (more than one) claim she never got in the water, they got in their car and left.....I believe that is a serious inconsistency.
****
GG stated that Robyn had taken a sleeping pill earlier in the day and had been drinking. Does that seem consistent with someone you would take snorkeling for their first time ever?
Video: "According to the police report, obtained by ABC News, Giordano told investigators that he and Robyn were drinking Vodka at the Marriott, and Robyn had a bottle of pills in her bag, I do not know what those pills are for".

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/tod...25927#44225927

And it was very late in the afternoon---a very silly time to try and snorkel because the water is too dark because of the angle of the sun.

And the witnesses say they saw them walking on the beach, but never entered the water. Other witnesses saw them drive off without entering the water. Those are also inconsistencies in his story.

Add to it the fact that she was dressed with her make up done, her extensions all curled and done up, and she had been leisurely drinking and eating all afternoon---what makes
her suddenly want to snorkel that day?
****
GG said he and Robyn went snorkeling, yet a witness said he never saw them go into the water during the timeline GG gave LE.
GG, according to a source, said Robyn had been drinking and took an ambien that day - then says they were a "sober couple".
The terrain GG pointed out to LE as the entry point of their snorkeling adventure, was too rocky for anyone but God to traverse barefoot
GG said the waters were rough at the time they were snorkeling, this was proved untrue
GG says there is a Dutch tourist guide for Aruba that states one should call their insurance carrier if someone goes missing during their visit - but also says his attorney told him to call. Which is it. It can't be the tourist guide because there's not one containing his referenced directive.
****
GG claims they went into the water at a specific location and LE, witnesses are saying no way that happened.
*****
Funny, too, how they never found any blood on the rocks. She cut her toe on the large rock and no blood, had to go back to where they placed the towels to stop the bleeding and no blood, anywhere, except on the towel. When you cut your toe and it's bleeding, it bleeds alot but there is no sign of blood anywhere on, near or around that area. It was dry, blood was not going anywhere had it been there. Investigators were there within 20 minutes.....so where was the blood??? It's not like GG could ditch the towel as it belongs to the hotel and you are accountable for it. Sounds as if this could be another of T. Stein's "inconsistencies".
****
Fact remains that GG gave a statement regarding where they went in. There was no mistake because there were markers on the ground. He pointed out the rock she cut her toe on. All of that was investigated prior to the reenactment. The reenactment was done because the facts did not match his story big time. He is the one who pointed everything out, he is the one who gave his statement if the facts don't match then this is why GG is their primary suspect.
****
In this reenactment at the 2:07 point you can see the actor running and he appears wet. Next frame shows GG and he does not appear to be wet at all. Witnesses say his bathing suit was dry. So why would the actor still be wet and GG was already dry?? My guess is another inconsistency. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/robyn-gardners-final-moments-reenacted-aruba-14562389
*****
GG tells RG's mother that he got his sneakers wet while searching for her daughter. He claims he was snorkeling with his shoes on so why would he say he "got is sneakers wet" when they were supposed to already be wet from snorkeling????

GG telling the agent RG was going to take another flight??

ML, GG's first attorney will not confirm or deny any statements GG has made only stating that ML is ethically bound, as any defense attorney, not to discuss his case without permission. What ML did say was that GG knows what we discussed. GG can give his attorney permission to back up his story which he obviously has not done.

RG was not physically prepared to go snorkeling. We see her enter the bathroom and return and she has not changed into her bathing suit. Where they were suppose to be snorkeling was only 100 yards from the restaurant where she could have changed and she did not do so. She was there the day before so she was quite aware there was no place to change on the beach.

GG had to wear sneakers (he admits) into the water but claims RG went in barefoot even after severely cutting her toe enough to leave blood on a towel.

She appears to be wearing one dress for two days and yet her dress was found tossed over onto the rocks quite a distance from the towels. The car was right there so why wouldn't she put it in the car rather than risk it being torn by the jagged rocks??? And where were her shoes???? If they were in the car why wouldn't her dress be in there also?
****
the fact GG stated RG was planning on having her hair extensions re-done when she returned home; her friend and hairdresser refuted this saying she just had them done and there was no plan to do them any time soon (paraphrased).
****
As for GG laying down the towels it appears they were on part of the road area. Not the best to sit or lie down on to get a tan (another inconsistency I'm guessing).
****
Another inconsistency, is GG claiming on GMA that his attorney was the one who told him to call the insurance company and report her missing. So he would lead us to believe he contacted the attorney to get advice about the insurance company which would have cost him a couple of dollars. JB then interrupts GG and claims that ML wanted GG to sign an agreement for 1/3 of the insurance money. The fee for a personal injury lawsuit is 1/3 of monies you receive as a settlement. So who was suing GG, or was it who GG feared might be suing him for that money. GG was clearly the beneficiary in the policy and certainly didn't have to ask an attorney for advice on whether or not to call the insurance company. He could call the insurance company and get that advice for free. Also, GG claims he has always purchased insurance when traveling and it appears he has traveled quite a bit so I would think he had read his policy and would already know that detail.

Then you have the media reporting that GG told ML he was no longer permitted to speak to the media which leads us to believe ML was relaying information that may have conflicted with what he had told LE or others. ML now claims after GG's interview with GMA that he can't speak because of the attorney/client privilege other than to say that GG knows what we discussed.

****
inconsistencies. Such as JB claiming on national TV that GG didn't need 1.5 million dollars. Ha! He's so clueless he doesn't even know how ridiculous he sounds.

Suspect in Aruba claimed money woes

"A January filing says that when his child support was set in 2009, Mr. Giordano’s monthly income in 2009 was $4,827 — or about $58,000 annually. At that time, he was paying $616 per month.
“Since that order, there has been a material change in circumstances,” the court filing says.
It asks a judge to reconsider the child-support amount Mr. Giordano paid based on 2010 financial records that indicated his earnings were “significantly lower than the figure used for calculating support at the last hearing.” BBM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...disqus_thread6

****
Another inconsistency is he claimed it was in her bag but they found her bottle in their room on the nightstand. So did he put the pills in her bag and she removed them and put them back on the nightstand before leaving the hotel room that day? Did he want them to find the pills in her bag so LE would think she had just taken one? I can't imagine why she would even consider putting the pills in her bag to carry around with her during the day when there could be a chance you could lose them. You would think she would want to keep them in her room available to take before going to bed.

****
And it also brings up the question, if she had taken it earlier and was observed as being woosie prior to leaving the restaurant how would she have ever lasted in the water for 1 1/2 hours???
****
if hair extensions were that important to her to sit for 6/8 hours to have them put in right before leaving, I don't think she was going snorkeling on her second day there only to have those extension start to come out. RF and her roommate are the ones who doubt she would have gone into the water because of the extensions. It's just another issue that makes little sense. Some inconsistencies you can understand. There are just too many here and this is one of them.
****
Something else that just does not sit right. We can see GG walking out with boxed leftovers from their meal. Why would you take them with you if you did not plan on going back to the hotel? GG claims they planned on snorkeling but you can't leave food in a car in Aruba in that hot sun for any length of time. He was gone 2 hours. I don't see him bothering but if RG thought they were going back, and we know she did not eat her salad, she may have asked to have it boxed. If RG was not in on the snorkeling plans I doubt he would have said anything to her.
****
 
  • #1,078
What do you base your statement on, that "there is no evidence of a murder"?

There is also no evidence that Gary Giordano is innocent.

If you go back and read the Timeline, and the list of Inconsistencies that Niner has so graciously provided us and posted here, and the list of Red Flags by Lambchop, maybe this will help clarify the situation for you. This is all the information that is known in this case.

Maybe you're of the belief that Robyn was not murdered, but trafficked to Venezuela or elsewhere? Though, ijmo that it's less likely than the homicide explanation, I personally was one who believed it was a strong possibility for the longest time, and have never 100% dismissed it. But that's just my opinion.

Whatever the case, murder or kidnapping, it is just a widely held opinion that GG is responsible for whatever happened to Robyn, and this opinion is based on known facts, improbabilities, and inconsistencies in GG's story. Also, if ALE did not believe he was guilty of something, they would not have been able to hold him for four months, which is the longest they could hold him and not go to trial. The Aruban judge made the decision, one that Taco Stein did not agree with and appealed.

It's unfortunate that the Aruba legal system works to the exclusion of circumstantial evidence when it comes to their ability or willingness to secure an indictment. But that is just that, the way it works in Aruba. GG is still the prime suspect, and things are still 'not right in Denmark', and will not be until GG has to answer for what he did to Robyn. But that's jmo.

Just had to say...

. . :goodpost:. . . . :clap:
 
  • #1,079
Well let's put it this way the only way ANYONE will ever know with certainty is if the body of Robyn Gardner is found anywhere other than what would be consistent with a drowning. Since that is what GG has said, until there is proof(other than red flags) she was murdered, than I can only speak for myself, but the answer would be, YES, I have to believe it was an accident. Red flags and inconsistencies are not proof. They are what they are, red flags and inconsistencies. End of story. Agree?

No, not the end of the story at all.[/B]

It does not matter what he 'says' happened because he had other motives for his story. He tried to cash in on an insurance policy for her death. That makes his story subject to questioning.

Also, his story is in conflict with witnesses that were present that day. So I do not believe there was a snorkeling accident because I do not believe she went snorkeling at all.

"End of Story" refers only to the bolded text, Sorry if this wasn't clear.
 
  • #1,080
Other than GG's statement there is no proof RG drowned by accident at that location. In a calm sea no body was recovered, so yes there is no proof she drowned. There also is no physical proof she died of a crime. The only proof LE has are GG's lies. As much as some would like this is certainly not the end of the story until he is cleared. jmo
 
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