ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

[Dushi]

It seems that ALE's hinkymeter didn't go off at all initially, or why wouldn't they have impounded the car as evidence of a possible crime. So they had no suspicions until they found out about the insurance policy? Why let GG leave with the car?

They talked to witnesses that same evening didn't they, who reported GG's suspicious behavior, scratches, dry swim shorts, etc. So why weren't they suspicious enough from that alone to take the car? Now I'm more puzzled than ever.

Very good points

When did the fisherman tell them he saw them leave without entering the water?

I expect the focus the first night was finding her
Witness statements later?

 

[Dushi]

I don't think they were suspicious of the car because GG said she was in the water. [/B] They were waiting until they found her body or it surfaced. The fact she did not surface in calm seas told them she may not have gone into the water there or something else happened to her. From ALE's reports they expected to find her if it happened as GG described. jmo

I don't think they were suspicious of the car either

Thats why I don't think they looked at it

They may have asked for ID, doesn't mean they checked for alcohol or anything else

 

[Dushi]

"He was first interrogated as a witness and in that position, he was told he was free to leave," Stein said.
"In evaluating his statements later on, we decided there were some things that were not correct and that changed our position towards him to seeing him as a suspect. At that point in time we decided that we wouldn't want him to leave the island," Stein said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-missing-aruba-natalee-holloways-mother/story?id=14271819

Its obvious to me from the above that he was under no suspicion that first night

 

[Dushi]

If he showed them where he says they went in the water , if it were impossible to do so, wouldn't LE have been suspicious that very first night?

According to stein, it wasn't till "later on" that they became suspicious

 

[Dushi]

Was gary Giordano ever informed by LE that they did not want him to leave the Island?

He was initially told he was free to leave

 

[neesaki]

Was gary Giordano ever informed by LE that they did not want him to leave the Island?

He was initially told he was free to leave

I don't remember LE telling him that until they stopped him at the airport. I assume he was just staying there until his regular scheduled flight, though he then tried to leave on an earlier one. He and his attorney claim he was told by the U.S. Consulate that he was free to leave. There is a link for that article somewhere, I'll try to find it later. JMO

 

[Dushi]

I don't remember LE telling him that until they stopped him at the airport. I assume he was just staying there until his regular scheduled flight, though he then tried to leave on an earlier one. He and his attorney claim he was told by the U.S. Consulate that he was free to leave. There is a link for that article somewhere, I'll try to find it later. JMO

Could have been
Stein did not say who told him he was free, just said he was free to leave

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

It seems that ALE's hinkymeter didn't go off at all initially, or why wouldn't they have impounded the car as evidence of a possible crime. So they had no suspicions until they found out about the insurance policy? Why let GG leave with the car?

They talked to witnesses that same evening didn't they, who reported GG's suspicious behavior, scratches, dry swim shorts, etc. So why weren't they suspicious enough from that alone to take the car? Now I'm more puzzled than ever.

You know, Neesaki, this line of questioning about the "car" is a very good one. I do not think we have looked at this too closely.

Do we know for a fact that ALE never searched his car? I would think that would be where RG's belongings would have been left. If they just gave the car an overview to see if there was evidence of her being with GG, then nothing else jumped out at them as being suspicious. Wouldn't they have to have "probable cause" for search and seizure of his car?

Now I question if GG had done something to Robyn, I suspect he was not afraid of LE finding anything in their car to indicate foul play. So we can safely assume if something happened to Robyn there was no evidence in the car to indicate he was not telling the truth, right? I wonder if they had searched the car (even forensically), would they only find the obvious evidence that Robyn had been in the car during her stay in Aruba.

The car was not what kept GG in Aruba. Could the inconsistencies in his account be significant in and of themselves to hold GG in Aruba?
Was it the discovery of the insurance claim alone that kept GG from leaving?
It would be really helpful to know if and what they did find in the car--even if it was just the Liquor instead of juice thing. Guess that's not happenin, though.LOL!!

 

[Dushi]

The car was cleaned once Giordano returned the car to the Star rental at Aruba's airport, so police were unable to investigate the vehicle, according to law enforcement. The rental agents said that they didn't notice anything unusual when it was cleaned.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...tors-focus-insurance-policy/story?id=14321496

 

[MaryAnn]

The car was cleaned once Giordano returned the car to the Star rental at Aruba's airport, so police were unable to investigate the vehicle, according to law enforcement. The rental agents said that they didn't notice anything unusual when it was cleaned.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...tors-focus-insurance-policy/story?id=14321496

I wonder if they ever checked the rental car for blood? Even if the rental car agency didn't see anything unusual I would hope that ALE didn't just take their word for it. Doubt the rental car company uses Luminol. If the "rumor" is true of the couple seeing what they now think was GG beating on RG I would think the rental car is pretty important. I really don't think Aruba's LE is even close to what we have here in the US. It makes me even more suspicious of GG's intentions. First the cruise, where he could easily get rid of someone, then the trip to Aruba! Why couldn't they have gone anywhere in the US? Virgin Islands? jmo, GG planned and researched this and hopefully he won't get away with it, but my hopes are diminishing quickly. :furious:

 

[Dushi]

I wonder if they ever checked the rental car for blood? Even if the rental car agency didn't see anything unusual I would hope that ALE didn't just take their word for it. Doubt the rental car company uses Luminol. If the "rumor" is true of the couple seeing what they now think was GG beating on RG I would think the rental car is pretty important. I really don't think Aruba's LE is even close to what we have here in the US. It makes me even more suspicious of GG's intentions. First the cruise, where he could easily get rid of someone, then the trip to Aruba! Why couldn't they have gone anywhere in the US? Virgin Islands? jmo, GG planned and researched this and hopefully he won't get away with it, but my hopes are diminishing quickly. :furious:

All I can tell you is if there was blood in the car it was not noticable according to the rental company
What LE did after that is unknown

I don't believe the rumour as Stein has already discredited that saying there is no such witness

And as sad as it is, crime goes unpunished everywhere , sometimes with far more evidence than in this case, imo

As far as choosing Aruba as a vacation spot, more than half a million people do it every year

 

[Dushi]

Crime happens everywhere Just FYI

Of the U.S. Virgin Islands, St. Thomas has the highest crime rate. Most problems occur in Charlotte Amalie, so be particularly careful with valuables. Store them in a hotel safe if possible. Furthermore, don't wander around at night, and make sure to lock car and hotel room doors. Women should avoid going to bars alone after dark in Charlotte Amalie.

http://virginislands-guide.info/travel.basics/crime/


http://www.travelvi.com/us-virgin-islands/us-virgin-islands-crime/us-virgin-islands-crime.html

 

[MaryAnn]

Crime happens everywhere Just FYI

Of the U.S. Virgin Islands, St. Thomas has the highest crime rate. Most problems occur in Charlotte Amalie, so be particularly careful with valuables. Store them in a hotel safe if possible. Furthermore, don't wander around at night, and make sure to lock car and hotel room doors. Women should avoid going to bars alone after dark in Charlotte Amalie.

http://virginislands-guide.info/travel.basics/crime/


http://www.travelvi.com/us-virgin-islands/us-virgin-islands-crime/us-virgin-islands-crime.html

Yikes!! I don't travel much and I guess quite naive. I heard on the news last night that the crime rate in New Orleans is really high right now too. So sad!

 

[Niner]

A couple of questions on your post here, LambChop...

You are presumed innocent in a court of law until proven guilty. Obviously the State Attorney's office thinks you are guilty or they would not bring charges. And what about LE? It all starts with them. They bring the case and the evidence to the attention of SA. So public opinion is what it is. If someone lies and cannot be believed, they have a questionable background, they have a violent past when dealing with women, it does not take a video tape of the actual crime for people to believe the man is not telling the truth when he lies and what he claims is inconsistent with what the facts are.

Do we have a list of inconsistents?? :waitasec: and if so, could you point me to them!! :seeya:

At some point someone will decide whether there is enough evidence to arrest him and that would probably be the Grand Jury. People just like you and I, and they will go over some of things we have considered here. We are just expressing our opinions, which we are entitled to do. It was GG who chose to go on national tv and give us even more for discussion.

I thought Aruba didn't have a jury system? Just 3 or 4 (5) judges?? :waitasec:

Thanks!

 

[Niner]

Take this or leave it, as you wish! :floorlaugh: I got my copy of the Natl Enquirer and here's a few quotes:

...Proscecutors also revealed that cadaver dogs sent to search for her body reacted to the scent of human remains at the edge of a Colorado Point cliff - less than a mile from the Nanki beach.
...
Aruban investigators are now convinced that a drugged and drunken Robyn was attacked at the Nanki beach, driven to the Colorado Point cliff and thrown the equivalent of six stories into the churning waves below, say sources.
...
"Police believe he would have had plenty of time to dispose of Robyn's body by throwing it off Colorado Point," the source explained. "Authorities think the dogs picked the scent because Robyn's body was dragged up to the edge of the cliff. If her body had been found on the shore, Giordano could have then claimed it was washed there after she drowned while snorkeling."
Aruban police are still combing the area around Colorado Point. A team of six divers searched for Robyn's body inside caves at the base of the wave-lashed cliff, but so far have found nothing.
"It is extremely difficult and dangerous to dive in those caves because of vicious waves that boil the waters inside," "Even if her body is in there, it's going to be tough to find it."

anyone have a map to point out 'where' this Colorado Point is? Are these the cliffs that LambChop and I believe Dushi have discussed?? TIA!! :seeya:

 

[Dushi]

Colorado Point

http://bentpage.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/colorado-point-panorama/

 

[Dushi]

Yes, this is the area

The California Lighthouse is on the North west tip
The Colorado Point lighthouse is on the southeast coast

I am not positive which area Lampchop was talking about

All rugged coastline

 

[LambChop]

Yes, this is the area

The California Lighthouse is on the North west tip
The Colorado Point lighthouse is on the southeast coast

I am not positive which area Lampchop was talking about

All rugged coastline

The cliffs are all along the eastern side of the island and they drop down to the water at different levels depending where you are.

 

[LambChop]

A couple of questions on your post here, LambChop...



Do we have a list of inconsistents?? :waitasec: and if so, could you point me to them!! :seeya:



I thought Aruba didn't have a jury system? Just 3 or 4 (5) judges?? :waitasec:

Thanks!

I was talking about the Federal Grand Jury here in the US.

No one has actually sat down and listed them in a post but they are scattered throughout. It's a good idea to list them somewhere so we have them to consider. jmo

 

[Micheline]

I have to disagree regarding him telling the truth. Lying to a ticket agent of a major airline is not the same as lying to a cashier at a local discount store. All airport personal are on the alert for anything unusual in appearance or action today because of Homeland Security. I think the agent would have been negligent not to have reported him knowing he lied. And that would be true of anyone. If you have to lie to an agent about something as serious as the person you are with has gone missing and probably won't be using that ticket I think there is something seriously wrong with your thinking. jmo

Giordano reported Robyn Missing within 1 hour and 48 minutes after she was last seen alive, he filed a missing persons report with Aruban Authorities, he contacted the American Embassy, Robyn's family was notified.

It seems all the important authorities and people were informed by or via Giordano, I do not see the ticket agent as someone that truly needed to be filled in about the situation. What was he to say to her, that his travel companion had disappeared while out at sea, that they were snorkeling, that he wasn't sure if she would be found alive since a couple of days had passed already? How would the ticket agent react to that, Robyn's flight had not been cancelled apparently since why else would she ask Giordano about his travel companion, so maybe she would ask if he had informed authorities and he then would say he had, but maybe she would think this being a situation where she had to report to her superiors, maybe ALE would be called and he would not be allowed to leave until the superior of the ticket agent knew the proper authorities were aware of the situation.
Giordano wanted to leave Aruba, he was told he was free to leave and had an attorney prior to leaving, his flight was to leave soon, by filling in the ticket agent he would cause commotion with as a result that he probably would not be on his flight. He may have taken his decision not to tell her based on that.

The fact that he wanted to leave Aruba so soon is another discussion, but when just talking about the ticket and me personally still not convinced that Giordano harmed Robyn, I do not see him not willing to share everything that had happened as something suspicious or an outright lie but more as him trying to prevent a situation he did not want to be in.


It would have been different had Giordano caused Robyn to disappear, did not tell a soul, then fled the island and then told the ticket agent that Robyn would be taking a later flight. IMO