ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

[Dushi]

I was talking about the Federal Grand Jury here in the US.

No one has actually sat down and listed them in a post but they are scattered throughout. It's a good idea to list them somewhere so we have them to consider. jmo

I think a list is an excellent idea

Perhaps Rumour versus facts thread with links

 

[MaryAnn]

Giordano reported Robyn Missing within 1 hour and 48 minutes after she was last seen alive, he filed a missing persons report with Aruban Authorities, he contacted the American Embassy, Robyn's family was notified.

It seems all the important authorities and people were informed by or via Giordano, I do not see the ticket agent as someone that truly needed to be filled in about the situation. What was he to say to her, that his travel companion had disappeared while out at sea, that they were snorkeling, that he wasn't sure if she would be found alive since a couple of days had passed already? How would the ticket agent react to that, Robyn's flight had not been cancelled apparently since why else would she ask Giordano about his travel companion, so maybe she would ask if he had informed authorities and he then would say he had, but maybe she would think this being a situation where she had to report to her superiors, maybe ALE would be called and he would not be allowed to leave until the superior of the ticket agent knew the proper authorities were aware of the situation.
Giordano wanted to leave Aruba, he was told he was free to leave and had an attorney prior to leaving, his flight was to leave soon, by filling in the ticket agent he would cause commotion with as a result that he probably would not be on his flight. He may have taken his decision not to tell her based on that.

The fact that he wanted to leave Aruba so soon is another discussion, but when just talking about the ticket and me personally still not convinced that Giordano harmed Robyn, I do not see him not willing to share everything that had happened as something suspicious or an outright lie but more as him trying to prevent a situation he did not want to be in.


It would have been different had Giordano caused Robyn to disappear, did not tell a soul, then fled the island and then told the ticket agent that Robyn would be taking a later flight. IMO

Bolded by me

I'm sure GG would have done this, but then he would have lost out on his 1.5 mil life insurance policy he took out on Robyn. Common sense tells you GG is responsible.

 

[LambChop]

Giordano reported Robyn Missing within 1 hour and 48 minutes after she was last seen alive, he filed a missing persons report with Aruban Authorities, he contacted the American Embassy, Robyn's family was notified.

It seems all the important authorities and people were informed by or via Giordano, I do not see the ticket agent as someone that truly needed to be filled in about the situation. What was he to say to her, that his travel companion had disappeared while out at sea, that they were snorkeling, that he wasn't sure if she would be found alive since a couple of days had passed already? How would the ticket agent react to that, Robyn's flight had not been cancelled apparently since why else would she ask Giordano about his travel companion, so maybe she would ask if he had informed authorities and he then would say he had, but maybe she would think this being a situation where she had to report to her superiors, maybe ALE would be called and he would not be allowed to leave until the superior of the ticket agent knew the proper authorities were aware of the situation.
Giordano wanted to leave Aruba, he was told he was free to leave and had an attorney prior to leaving, his flight was to leave soon, by filling in the ticket agent he would cause commotion with as a result that he probably would not be on his flight. He may have taken his decision not to tell her based on that.

The fact that he wanted to leave Aruba so soon is another discussion, but when just talking about the ticket and me personally still not convinced that Giordano harmed Robyn, I do not see him not willing to share everything that had happened as something suspicious or an outright lie but more as him trying to prevent a situation he did not want to be in.


It would have been different had Giordano caused Robyn to disappear, did not tell a soul, then fled the island and then told the ticket agent that Robyn would be taking a later flight. IMO

Two words Homeland Security. You do not lie to a ticket agent when that agent knows better. They are the first person who has contact with you. They were both traveling together and were listed on the computer. The agent had every right to ask. Lying just brought attention to himself because whatever he said to the agent alerted them. The ticket agent is an employee of the airlines and had a right to know. When you arrive in Aruba you must state where you are staying and for how long. IMO it is airport policy to find out why someone is not leaving the country at their scheduled time.

The airlines have a tough job trying to keep us safe. Someone who lies makes their job that much harder. No way can he justify that he lied. As I said, it's not a cashier at Target he was lying to and it wasn't a small lie as if "my child is less than 2 years old when they are actually 2 1/2 years old. So that "little" lie cost him 4 months in jail because he lied to a ticket agent.

If someone died in your household you would not just walk away and not report it because you didn't want to deal with it. It's your responsibility to report it. Had he left without reporting her missing he would be in a lot more trouble than he is now and he would have never had any hopes of making a claim for that insurance. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Two words Homeland Security. You do not lie to a ticket agent when that agent knows better. They are the first person who has contact with you. They were both traveling together and were listed on the computer. The agent had every right to ask. Lying just brought attention to himself because whatever he said to the agent alerted them. The ticket agent is an employee of the airlines and had a right to know. When you arrive in Aruba you must state where you are staying and for how long. IMO it is airport policy to find out why someone is not leaving the country at their scheduled time.

The airlines have a tough job trying to keep us safe. Someone who lies makes their job that much harder. No way can he justify that he lied. As I said, it's not a cashier at Target he was lying to and it wasn't a small lie as if "my child is less than 2 years old when they are actually 2 1/2 years old. So that "little" lie cost him 4 months in jail because he lied to a ticket agent.

If someone died in your household you would not just walk away and not report it because you didn't want to deal with it. It's your responsibility to report it. Had he left without reporting her missing he would be in a lot more trouble than he is now and he would have never had any hopes of making a claim for that insurance. jmo

Very true

But he didn't

 

[Dushi]

[/B]

Bolded by me

I'm sure GG would have done this, but then he would have lost out on his 1.5 mil life insurance policy he took out on Robyn. Common sense tells you GG is responsible.

I do feel that I have a substantial amount of common sense
I respect your opinions and enjoy the debate, but I am a sensible person
I simply like to know the facts, all of the facts, omit the rumours and keep an open mind

I have no dog in the race\I simply like to look at all sides
Opinions are excellent, but just because you believe it doesn't make it fact

JMO

 

[rossva]

BBM Homeland Security has absolutely NO authority in Aruba. Also, I have traveled extensively with/as a pair and in groups of up to five people, with the tickets all paid for by one. Many, many times we have arrived at the airport and checked in a different times. I am a member of the CLEAR program; my traveling partners/frieds/girlfriend are not. We have traveled both domestically and internationally - not once have any of us been asked by the ticket agent as to where the other members were. As far as I know, other than human curiosity, there is no law or rule that would require a ticket agent to ask about other members (unless you traveling with minors) of your traveling party.

As you stated, the ticket agent is an employee of the airline: they are not an employee of Aruban Immigration.

Two words Homeland Security. You do not lie to a ticket agent when that agent knows better. They are the first person who has contact with you. They were both traveling together and were listed on the computer. The agent had every right to ask. Lying just brought attention to himself because whatever he said to the agent alerted them. The ticket agent is an employee of the airlines and had a right to know. When you arrive in Aruba you must state where you are staying and for how long. IMO it is airport policy to find out why someone is not leaving the country at their scheduled time.

The airlines have a tough job trying to keep us safe. Someone who lies makes their job that much harder. No way can he justify that he lied. As I said, it's not a cashier at Target he was lying to and it wasn't a small lie as if "my child is less than 2 years old when they are actually 2 1/2 years old. So that "little" lie cost him 4 months in jail because he lied to a ticket agent.

If someone died in your household you would not just walk away and not report it because you didn't want to deal with it. It's your responsibility to report it. Had he left without reporting her missing he would be in a lot more trouble than he is now and he would have never had any hopes of making a claim for that insurance. jmo

 

[MaryAnn]

I do feel that I have a substantial amount of common sense
I respect your opinions and enjoy the debate, but I am a sensible person
I simply like to know the facts, all of the facts, omit the rumours and keep an open mind

I have no dog in the race\I simply like to look at all sides
Opinions are excellent, but just because you believe it doesn't make it fact

JMO

That's true. The statement is an opinion! I accept your opinions and that was my opinion. I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else. :waitasec:

 

[Micheline]

He has many excuses and some could make sense but the excuses for the discrepancies are too big to ignore. My favorite was on GMA when he said he had to get an earlier flight because the Charlotte airport was closed due to a storm north of the island......what?????? Charlotte is in NC and they would not be closing the airport down because of a storm in Aruba. Plus any flight leaving Aruba to the US eastern coast goes north.

In my mind it sounded as if he had just made it up because he was not thinking logically. If he tells one lie he just is not credible. You can't justify his lying, no way, no how.

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me-

Giordano says the ticket agent told him Charlotte airport was closed because of a storm that had went north of the island.

He is correct, tropical storm Emily had passed north of the island of Aruba and went all the way up to the Bahamas, Florida etc:

This caused lots of bad weather in the region, like storm and flooding in Charlotte:

Friday, Aug. 05, 2011 Flooding hits Charlotte area.
An area of nearly stationary heavy showers and thunderstorms dumped torrential rainfall for several hours Friday over parts of the Charlotte area, sending creeks out of their banks, flooding roads, and contributing to at least one death.
/snip/
The American Red Cross opened a shelter Friday evening at Northwest School of the Arts, 1415 Beatties Ford Road, to house people displaced from the University Garden Apartments.
Evacuations also were needed at apartments on Andrill Terrace, off Oaklawn Avenue near Interstate 77 in northwest Charlotte.
/snip/
Charlotte/Douglas International Airport issued a ground-stop shortly after noon. That prevented all takeoffs and landings, but some flight activity resumed about an hour later.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...-rain-falling-in-charlotte.html#storylink=cpy

 

[MaryAnn]

BBM Homeland Security has absolutely NO authority in Aruba. Also, I have traveled extensively with/as a pair and in groups of up to five people, with the tickets all paid for by one. Many, many times we have arrived at the airport and checked in a different times. I am a member of the CLEAR program; my traveling partners/frieds/girlfriend are not. We have traveled both domestically and internationally - not once have any of us been asked by the ticket agent as to where the other members were. As far as I know, other than human curiosity, there is no law or rule that would require a ticket agent to ask about other members (unless you traveling with minors) of your traveling party.

As you stated, the ticket agent is an employee of the airline: they are not an employee of Aruban Immigration.

His flight is flying into the US, don't you think they are responsible for who they put on that plane? Like LampChop said, I'm sure the Ticket Agent was fully aware of the situation. It was all over the news. What was his big rush to get off the island anyway? If it were true that she was washed away while snorkeling you would think he would want to wait around to see if her body washed ashore, if maybe she was still alive somewhere. No, he was hi tailing it out of aruba to go collect his life ins money.

 

[LambChop]

BBM Homeland Security has absolutely NO authority in Aruba. Also, I have traveled extensively with/as a pair and in groups of up to five people, with the tickets all paid for by one. Many, many times we have arrived at the airport and checked in a different times. I am a member of the CLEAR program; my traveling partners/frieds/girlfriend are not. We have traveled both domestically and internationally - not once have any of us been asked by the ticket agent as to where the other members were. As far as I know, other than human curiosity, there is no law or rule that would require a ticket agent to ask about other members (unless you traveling with minors) of your traveling party.

As you stated, the ticket agent is an employee of the airline: they are not an employee of Aruban Immigration.

We are talking about Aruba. When you enter the country you have to state where you are residing while you are there and the length of time you plan to stay and your departure date. It is the business of the Aruban government to know why you are not leaving the country and you do this through the airlines by requesting a change in departure date. The agent has the right to know because this information is required by the government. You can't just enter and stay forever without being accountable.

The agents in Aruba are Arubans and they answer to their own government. US has customs on the ground in Aruba. Once you pass immigrations you go through US customs and Homeland Security is there. (Agents for Homeland Security are on many flights we just don't know who they are and they travel everywhere.) You have to go through security twice, once leaving Aruban territory and after you pick up your luggage you again must go through security before entering the US Customs area. Agents are responsible to report anything suspicious. Security is a US issue in Aruba in the terminal where the US flights leave from.

Other countries may have different rules about reporting changes in your departing schedules due to your ability to move from one country to another by ground transportation. You can't do that in Aruba. They have very tight security and want to know where you are, how long you are planning on staying and your change in departure date. RG was not standing in front of the ticket agent. She traveled with GG and he was asked the question where is she? And he lied. You can't lie about her whereabouts in Aruba they just would not accept his explanation. And that is what got him into trouble. Had he told the truth the agent would have put into the computer that she was missing and he would have been on his merry way. Unless they were told not to let him leave, there is no way they would have known if he were free to go. Lying just brought it to the agent's attention.

 

[LambChop]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me-

Giordano says the ticket agent told him Charlotte airport was closed because of a storm that had went north of the island.

He is correct, tropical storm Emily had passed north of the island of Aruba and went all the way up to the Bahamas, Florida etc:

This caused lots of bad weather in the region, like storm and flooding in Charlotte:

Friday, Aug. 05, 2011 Flooding hits Charlotte area.
An area of nearly stationary heavy showers and thunderstorms dumped torrential rainfall for several hours Friday over parts of the Charlotte area, sending creeks out of their banks, flooding roads, and contributing to at least one death.
/snip/
The American Red Cross opened a shelter Friday evening at Northwest School of the Arts, 1415 Beatties Ford Road, to house people displaced from the University Garden Apartments.
Evacuations also were needed at apartments on Andrill Terrace, off Oaklawn Avenue near Interstate 77 in northwest Charlotte.
/snip/
Charlotte/Douglas International Airport issued a ground-stop shortly after noon. That prevented all takeoffs and landings, but some flight activity resumed about an hour later.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...-rain-falling-in-charlotte.html#storylink=cpy

One mystery solved. That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Micheline]

-snipped a bit by me-

Two words Homeland Security. You do not lie to a ticket agent when that agent knows better. They are the first person who has contact with you. They were both traveling together and were listed on the computer. The agent had every right to ask. Lying just brought attention to himself because whatever he said to the agent alerted them. The ticket agent is an employee of the airlines and had a right to know. When you arrive in Aruba you must state where you are staying and for how long. IMO it is airport policy to find out why someone is not leaving the country at their scheduled time.

I did not say the ticket agent had no right to ask, of course she can ask.

It is the airport policy to find out if and why someone is not leaving the country, this is where the American Embassy comes into place, they inform the douane and immigration in case of a missing person.

The airlines have a tough job trying to keep us safe. Someone who lies makes their job that much harder. No way can he justify that he lied. As I said, it's not a cashier at Target he was lying to and it wasn't a small lie as if "my child is less than 2 years old when they are actually 2 1/2 years old. So that "little" lie cost him 4 months in jail because he lied to a ticket agent.

No his arrest was already planned, from what I recall the States gave ALE permission to arrest Giordano when he already had passed customs.

 

[LambChop]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me-

Giordano says the ticket agent told him Charlotte airport was closed because of a storm that had went north of the island.

He is correct, tropical storm Emily had passed north of the island of Aruba and went all the way up to the Bahamas, Florida etc:

This caused lots of bad weather in the region, like storm and flooding in Charlotte:

Friday, Aug. 05, 2011 Flooding hits Charlotte area.
An area of nearly stationary heavy showers and thunderstorms dumped torrential rainfall for several hours Friday over parts of the Charlotte area, sending creeks out of their banks, flooding roads, and contributing to at least one death.
/snip/
The American Red Cross opened a shelter Friday evening at Northwest School of the Arts, 1415 Beatties Ford Road, to house people displaced from the University Garden Apartments.
Evacuations also were needed at apartments on Andrill Terrace, off Oaklawn Avenue near Interstate 77 in northwest Charlotte.
/snip/
Charlotte/Douglas International Airport issued a ground-stop shortly after noon. That prevented all takeoffs and landings, but some flight activity resumed about an hour later.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...-rain-falling-in-charlotte.html#storylink=cpy

I remember that storm as I'm in the northeast coastal area of NC. The eye of the storm went over us Friday and it covered a large area. Charlotte is 6 hours away so the whole state was affected IMO, and the other half of the storm stayed out at sea. If GG took an earlier flight he had to have been scheduled to take a westerly route, through Texas, maybe. No way was he getting back to MD the same day. We were without power for 3 days. Richmond is about a 2 1/2 hour drive from where I am so that whole area was affected by this storm. Charlotte is below Baltimore so I'm not sure how he thought he was saving time because Baltimore was hit, too. Connecticut was without power for 10 days in most areas because of this storm. It was a whooper. jmo

 

[LambChop]

-snipped a bit by me-



I did not say the ticket agent had no right to ask, of course she can ask.

It is the airport policy to find out if and why someone is not leaving the country, this is where the American Embassy comes into place, they inform the douane and immigration in case of a missing person.



No his arrest was already planned, from what I recall the States gave ALE permission to arrest Giordano when he already had passed customs.

LE did not know he planned on leaving or they would have never waited until he was getting ready to board the plane. He obviously showed up at the airport with his ticket and changed it right there. Why would ALE risk GG leaving the country when they had to ask for permission? US could have told them no. Where was this reported because this is the first I've heard about Aruba asking for US permission? I know they planned to detain him for further questioning but I understood they did not know he was leaving. I could have missed it because I came onto this case about thread #3 or 4. jmo

 

[vlpate]

I think a list is an excellent idea

Perhaps Rumour versus facts thread with links

Salem started a rumor vs fact page, which I could have sworn you mentioned in a post. I'd point you to it, but I can't find it

 

[Micheline]

I remember that storm as I'm in the northeast coastal area of NC. The eye of the storm went over us Friday and it covered a large area. Charlotte is 6 hours away so the whole state was affected IMO, and the other half of the storm stayed out at sea. If GG took an earlier flight he had to have been scheduled to take a westerly route, through Texas, maybe. No way was he getting back to MD the same day. We were without power for 3 days. Richmond is about a 2 1/2 hour drive from where I am so that whole area was affected by this storm. Charlotte is below Baltimore so I'm not sure how he thought he was saving time because Baltimore was hit, too. Connecticut was without power for 10 days in most areas because of this storm. It was a whooper. jmo

Giordano said he was offered a flight that took of an hour earlier then his original flight, he was interrupted by the interviewer before he could mention to which airport that would be.
He may not have been aware of the situation in NC sometimes people keep up with the weather and such at home while in another country, but since Robyn was missing I assume things were hectic when he was still in Aruba.
Perhaps he thought once in the States he would find a way to get home. IMO

 

[LambChop]

Giordano said he was offered a flight that took of an hour earlier then his original flight, he was interrupted by the interviewer before he could mention to which airport that would be.
He may not have been aware of the situation in NC sometimes people keep up with the weather and such at home while in another country, but since Robyn was missing I assume things were hectic when he was still in Aruba.
Perhaps he thought once in the States he would find a way to get home. IMO

Well, that is true. He probably just wanted to get out of there. I just find it strange that in an fully airconditioned airport and even if you run you can't get very far between check points LE described him as having sweat pouring off of him. But in the videos he appears to look as cool as a cucumber. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Could have been
Stein did not say who told him he was free, just said he was free to leave

Wasn't he told this when he was released from jail?

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/12/01/suspect-aruba-disappearance-defends-himself
He challenged reports that he was “escaping” Aruba when he was arrested. According to him, Gardner’s mother and a representative from the American Embassy both told him he should leave the island on his previously-scheduled flight. He added that investigators told him earlier that day that he was free to go, but then a detective showed up and arrested him at the gate.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-suspect-gary-giordano-heads-back-to-the-u-s/
“You know, it was almost a surreal moment for him,” Baez told ABC News. ”He had to keep pinching himself. He had been lied to so many times by the authorities here. The last time at the airport he was told he could leave, and then all of a sudden he was picked up and arrested… It’s hard for him to believe he’s going home.”

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...lvement-in-Aruba-Disappearance-134879883.html
Giordano was arrested Aug. 5 as he was preparing to board his previously scheduled flight out of Aruba. He said he had been told by authorities that he could leave and that Gardner's mother also encouraged him to go home.

 

[Micheline]

LE did not know he planned on leaving or they would have never waited until he was getting ready to board the plane. He obviously showed up at the airport with his ticket and changed it right there. Why would ALE risk GG leaving the country when they had to ask for permission? US could have told them no. Where was this reported because this is the first I've heard about Aruba asking for US permission? I know they planned to detain him for further questioning but I understood they did not know he was leaving. I could have missed it because I came onto this case about thread #3 or 4. jmo

Lamchop it is not easy to find articles from early on in this case.
Here is something:

Three days after the search for Gardner began, Giordano got within feet of leaving the country before he was stopped at Aruba's airport, after passing through security and U.S. customs

http://abcnews.go.com/International...s-case-missing-woman/story?id=14350220&page=2

And another one:

He added that investigators told him earlier that day that he was free to go, but then a detective showed up and arrested him at the gate.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/12/01/suspect-aruba-disappearance-defends-himself

That means he was on American territory, and ALE cannot arrest him there without approval of the USA.

 

[LambChop]

Lamchop it is not easy to find articles from early on in this case.
Here is something:

Three days after the search for Gardner began, Giordano got within feet of leaving the country before he was stopped at Aruba's airport, after passing through security and U.S. customs

http://abcnews.go.com/International...s-case-missing-woman/story?id=14350220&page=2

That means he was on American territory, and ALE cannot arrest him there without approval of the USA.

Yes, I realize that. What I was trying to ask is LE did not seem to know he was leaving if they were planning on arresting him they would have done so before he arrived at the airport not waited until he passed through US Customs. The fact that the agent asked the question tells me that person was looking at the computer at that point and saw two departures scheduled and where was the other person and may not have been immediately aware of who he was. It appears when he lied it alerted them and LE was called. You have to show your passport to the ticket agent when you get up to the counter so they knew who he was once he handed them his passport. He was getting ready to board that plane when they arrived that is cutting it pretty close for something that was planned. jmo