ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

[neesaki]

Just to clear up a few things:

A. I do not believe GG is innocent.......or guilty (thus the ability to see everyone's POV)

B. This Forum does not upset me, some of the answers given to discredit GG do...but everyone is entitled to their opinion. That is good by me.

C. I care very much about RG and am a part of this WS forum in hopes of exploring the "possibilities"and if GG is found to be guilty I will be very happy RG has found justice.

D. I do not believe it helps further an investigation if you are blinded by the certainty of one persons guilt to the exclusion of reasonable debate. I believe the posters at Web Sleuths to be better than that.

My POV is my POV--I have many doubts about GG---and if all of the "serious discrepancies" are released by ALE as factual evidence, I would be the first one to accept the very real possibility he did in fact murder RG.

....But until these discrepancies are ALE confirmed, I will choose to realize there is also a very real possibility it was an accident.

Not telling anyone how to live there life. If the purpose of this debate is to find out what might have happened to Robyn Gardner, believing GG is the Murderer to the exclusion of all else, IMO, seems the wrong way to go about it.Just sayin, and won't say anymore on the subject, K?





A

BTW, R.U., I appreciate the thought and time you, and all the other websleuthers as well, put into this case, regardless of anyone's opinion. That is what keeps us all thinking and studying and searching for the answers, as to what happened to Robyn, whatever the answeres may ultimately be. It's ok to disagree, or to be in limbo, or whatever; what's not okay is if we all quit and give up on finding answeres, and justice for Robyn. That's jmo. :seeya:

 

[LambChop]

Just to clear up a few things:

A. I do not believe GG is innocent.......or guilty (thus the ability to see everyone's POV)

B. This Forum does not upset me, some of the answers given to discredit GG do...but everyone is entitled to their opinion. That is good by me.

C. I care very much about RG and am a part of this WS forum in hopes of exploring the "possibilities"and if GG is found to be guilty I will be very happy RG has found justice.

D. I do not believe it helps further an investigation if you are blinded by the certainty of one persons guilt to the exclusion of reasonable debate. I believe the posters at Web Sleuths to be better than that.

My POV is my POV--I have many doubts about GG---and if all of the "serious discrepancies" are released by ALE as factual evidence, I would be the first one to accept the very real possibility he did in fact murder RG.

....But until these discrepancies are ALE confirmed, I will choose to realize there is also a very real possibility it was an accident.

Not telling anyone how to live there life. If the purpose of this debate is to find out what might have happened to Robyn Gardner, believing GG is the Murderer to the exclusion of all else, IMO, seems the wrong way to go about it.Just sayin, and won't say anymore on the subject, K?





A

I don't think anyone is saying he is guilty, not for us to say and at this point it would only be a personal opinion. We are discussing GG as prime suspect which is what Aruba has publicly announced. They are not giving up their investigation, so there is no reason to believe he has been cleared by either the US authorities or Aruba. Until such time there is nothing wrong with discussing all the possibilities involved in this case. Trying to keep an open mind but still looking at any holes and discrepancies we see in his statements. Dr. G said so herself the other day on GMA....we look at the last person who was seen with the victum.

GG has not been cleared as a suspect regardless of how anyone may feel about whether or not he was responsible for RG's death. He does not have a stellar record. In fact he is described by most as a scam artist, abuser, forger, thief and....not criminal, but a very bad neighbor. lol He has misrepresented himself as someone he is not, aka producer who wanted to take an 18 year old to Aruba to take professional pictures of her. Right!!! He's just not a very nice person so it's not a leap of faith to believe he would be capable of doing something to RG to cause her death. Maybe they argued and she scratched him and he hit her and killed her. We don't know what happened only what has been reported.

Eventually if we keep sifting though the reports we will get it right. Talking about issues that concern us can very often bring the truth out into the open. We don't need to be sensored unless it is for someone who is an innocent party. Right now there is no other suspect because GG admits he was with RG when she went missing but his version does not match what LE claims are the facts. jmo

 

[katydid23]

About AMBIEN. There was a discussion about this drug on thread #4 beginning around post #144, but recently saw this article:
Marie Claire magazine, January 2012 (most recent edition) by Antonia Wright titled "THE BREAKUP PILL". If you get a chance it is a very good read , it may be online.

Just a few quotes of interest:

"the doctor gave me one warning LIE DOWN RIGHT AFTER YOU TAKE IT"

the author having ignored this warning "began to love the strange off-kilter high that kicked in about 5 minutes after I swallowed that pill"

" It seemed like a Psychedelic indulgence worth drawing out"

The author then goes on to say while under the influence of ambien she
(paraphrased) went on to shop on line to the tune of thousands of dollars, eat peanut butter and butter sandwiches, gaining 20 lbs (who knew), have wild role-playing sex, and heart to heart talks with her husband ......NONE OF WHICH SHE REMEMBERED!

I have experienced this drug and am very familiar with the "ambien blackout".

I know, I know...so what's my point?
Well If RG had taken this drug during the afternoon , she would of experienced that "off-kilter high"---was it enough to allow her inhibitions to be lowered and go snorkeling, perhaps becoming disoriented while swimming, or even experiencing some form of seizure contributing to her demise??? Remember RG was combining this drug with another depressant--alcohol.

Don't know but you can be sure it is a case for reasonable doubt if this case goes to court....and it could be possible, don't you think?

But then where did her body go? If she drowned because she was drunk/high,then her body would have been found where she went under, imo.

 

[LambChop]

IMO, the high five statement was a sarcastic remark on his part and I would probably have said the same.

I am a bit confused that you first say he became "flip" (not sure exactly that meaning but I get the gist of it) with her because her name is Robin and then you say its because she is a woman, very confusing.

With regards to the "disappeared" statement, I would probably have also said disappeared rather than killed or died and I don't see anything out of place with that statement.

The dead animals side, I view that as heresay.

The remark was callous and he was detached in his delivery. If someone feels their is nothing wrong with what he said then I would say they feel detached but that would not be unusual because that person does not know Robyn. He knew her....intimately....very intimately and it was a detached statement for him to make.

He was flip with Robin, very arrogant. Not an isolated observation as many feel the same way who know it is a sign of an abusive person.

All those who have had problems with GG have filed police reports. The dead animals case went to court when the neighbors tried to get a restraining order issued on him when he returned. He will not stop being who he is. So, IMO, time will catch up with him. And it wasn't "heresay" nor rumor to the judge because the actual neighbors went to court. jmo

 

[katydid23]

Nobody witnessed them going INTO the ocean that afternoon. I think that IF RG had to learn to snorkel, and was walking out into the water, and then getting help from GG in putting on her mask etc, then someone would have noticed. There were people who noticed them walking along the beach, and leaving the beach however. So imo, they never went into the water there at all.

 

[LolliPop]

The remark was callous and he was detached in his delivery. If someone feels their is nothing wrong with what he said then I would say they feel detached but that would not be unusual because that person does not know Robyn. He knew her....intimately....very intimately and it was a detached statement for him to make.

He was flip with Robin, very arrogant. Not an isolated observation as many feel the same way who know it is a sign of an abusive person.

All those who have had problems with GG have filed police reports. The dead animals case went to court when the neighbors tried to get a restraining order issued on him when he returned. He will not stop being who he is. So, IMO, time will catch up with him. And it wasn't "heresay" nor rumor to the judge because the actual neighbors went to court. jmo

I am sorry but I disagree but you and those you reference are entitled to your opinions.

 

[LambChop]

Nobody witnessed them going INTO the ocean that afternoon. I think that IF RG had to learn to snorkel, and was walking out into the water, and then getting help from GG in putting on her mask etc, then someone would have noticed. There were people who noticed them walking along the beach, and leaving the beach however. So imo, they never went into the water there at all.

And one of the biggest descrepancies was that he was in the water and got into trouble. First he claimed it was because the water was rough and currents were strong, storm coming in from out at sea.... but when that was disproved it changed to his sneakers were weighing he down. What is wrong with this excuse is if this were the case why would he continue to swim with the sneakers on when he felt he was being pulled under. Your survival instinct would have been to take the darn sneakers off. You would not keep them on, you would pull them off.

I think it is reasonable to believe he never took them off because he never went swimming with them on....much less 1 1/2 hours of swimming and then he wants us to believe the sneakers suddenly, without warning, because water logged and started to pull him down. That is not logical. That makes no sense at all. jmo

 

[Micheline]

-espectfully snipped by me-

In the video GG and RG arrive and depart from the righthand side (as we are viewing it) of the front of the restaurant. Their car was parked in the direction they were coming in, not from the peninsula. GG is seen in the video coming for help from the lefthand side of the building which would be where that rocky peninsula is located. He supposedly ran 100 yards to get to the restaurant from the direction of the peninsula.

Lambchop, from which video have you determined that Giordano was coming for help from the lefthand side of the building? TIA

 

[LambChop]

-espectfully snipped by me-


Lambchop, from which video have you determined that Giordano was coming for help from the lefthand side of the building? TIA

There is only one video from the restaurant.

There is only one peninsula in that location.

 

[Micheline]

-snipped and bolded by me-

I hope this will make clear up exactly where GG said he went into the water. To our left in the picture would be the road coming into Baby Beach and the restaurant area. It is the only way to get to that area because it is on the refinery property and there is one way in and one way out. In the center of the picture are a clump of buildings, the clubhouse, Rum Reef and the dive shop. The front of restaurant faces out towards the ocean which is directly to your right in the picture. There is no view on the left because the clubhouse is there. To the right is the peninsula and behind the restaurant and dive shop is Baby Beach.

Lambchop just checking if I understand correctly, Babybeach is behind the restaurant, so front of the restaurant does not face Baby Bach but the opposit side?

What exactly do you mean by the front of the restaurant?
Is the front where people park their cars, or do people park at the back or the side of the restaurant and then walk to the front? TIA

 

[LambChop]

-snipped and bolded by me-


Lambchop just checking if I understand correctly, Babybeach is behind the restaurant, so front of the restaurant does not face Baby Bach but the opposit side?

What exactly do you mean by the front of the restaurant?
Is the front where people park their cars, or do people park at the back or the side of the restaurant and then walk to the front? TIA

If you like to visit Aruba often this might be a good time to plan a trip so you can judge for yourself. I think I have done the best I could to help you understand how everything is laid out there but you still are doubtful. No hurry, everything will still be there when you decide to go down.

Sorry I was not able to help you understand but the maps are there and I was able to figure it out from my experiences at Baby Beach. Good luck trying to figure it out for yourself but I'm done and ready to move on. jmo

 

[Micheline]

If you like to visit Aruba often this might be a good time to plan a trip so you can judge for yourself. I think I have done the best I could to help you understand how everything is laid out there but you still are doubtful. No hurry, everything will still be there when you decide to go down.

Sorry I was not able to help you understand but the maps are there and I was able to figure it out from my experiences at Baby Beach. Good luck trying to figure it out for yourself but I'm done and ready to move on. jmo

I appreciate you trying to make me and others more aware of the location, and I try to visualise what you are saying.

I do not think I am asking complicated questions by asking what you consider the front or the back of the restaurant.

You said the front of the restaurant faces out on the ocean, and then say Babybeach is at the back of the restaurant, while I assumed the parking was at the back of the restaurant (that would seem logical since the toilets were also at the parking side). So I am trying to figure out what you mean by front and back. I do not see why me asking that is offensive to you, at least I take the time to read your post and try to understand what you are saying.

Also take into consideration I am not the only one reading here, others may not have a clear view of what you are saying either. IMO

 

[Micheline]

There is only one video from the restaurant.

There is only one peninsula in that location.

I thought you may have it at hand so I would not have to go search for it through the hundreds of pages about this case.


Anyway I found it, here it is in case anyone else is interested in watching it:

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/44483842#44483842

 

[LambChop]

I appreciate you trying to make me and others more aware of the location, and I try to visualise what you are saying.

I do not think I am asking complicated questions by asking what you consider the front or the back of the restaurant.

You said the front of the restaurant faces out on the ocean, and then say Babybeach is at the back of the restaurant, while I assumed the parking was at the back of the restaurant (that would seem logical since the toilets were also at the parking side). So I am trying to figure out what you mean by front and back. I do not see why me asking that is offensive to you, at least I take the time to read your post and try to understand what you are saying.

Also take into consideration I am not the only one reading here, others may not have a clear view of what you are saying either. IMO

I don't know what to tell you. You are correct, they are not complicated questions and I have tried to answer to the best of my ability. You have posted pictures and maps so it is pretty clear you can read a map as well as the rest of us. No one else is questioning the peninsula. The peninsula is quite clear in it's definition. Statements made by T. Stein, GG and the news media all say GG went into the water on the peninsula. They all agree.

So feel free to look at the map and explore any options you see fit. I've done the best I can in trying to explain this location to you. No questions from other's so I'm assuming they all understand. All you are asking me to do is constantly repeat what I have already gone over, so I'm done.

Good luck with the maps. jmo

 

[Micheline]

I don't know what to tell you. You are correct, they are not complicated questions and I have tried to answer to the best of my ability. You have posted pictures and maps so it is pretty clear you can read a map as well as the rest of us. No one else is questioning the peninsula. The peninsula is quite clear in it's definition. Statements made by T. Stein, GG and the news media all say GG went into the water on the peninsula. They all agree.

So feel free to look at the map and explore any options you see fit. I've done the best I can in trying to explain this location to you. No questions from other's so I'm assuming they all understand. All you are asking me to do is constantly repeat what I have already gone over, so I'm done.

Good luck with the maps. jmo

Frankly I do not see the problem, you could just say the back is where the parking is. That would take less time then typing all the above.

 

[vlpate]

I appreciate you trying to make me and others more aware of the location, and I try to visualise what you are saying.

I do not think I am asking complicated questions by asking what you consider the front or the back of the restaurant.

You said the front of the restaurant faces out on the ocean, and then say Babybeach is at the back of the restaurant, while I assumed the parking was at the back of the restaurant (that would seem logical since the toilets were also at the parking side). So I am trying to figure out what you mean by front and back. I do not see why me asking that is offensive to you, at least I take the time to read your post and try to understand what you are saying.

Also take into consideration I am not the only one reading here, others may not have a clear view of what you are saying either. IMO

Why don't you email them?

 

[otto]

I appreciate you trying to make me and others more aware of the location, and I try to visualise what you are saying.

I do not think I am asking complicated questions by asking what you consider the front or the back of the restaurant.

You said the front of the restaurant faces out on the ocean, and then say Babybeach is at the back of the restaurant, while I assumed the parking was at the back of the restaurant (that would seem logical since the toilets were also at the parking side). So I am trying to figure out what you mean by front and back. I do not see why me asking that is offensive to you, at least I take the time to read your post and try to understand what you are saying.

Also take into consideration I am not the only one reading here, others may not have a clear view of what you are saying either. IMO

Google Earth giives a good understanding of the area. I've posted many maps throughout the investigation ... is there anything more specific you're looking for?

JADS location in Aruba

Here's an aerial of JADS restaurant and dive shop.

Here's the general search area

Possible area where car was parked <Modsnip -- Image blew the margins. See attached photo.>

 

[vlpate]

And doesn't that article also say that the longer you have been taking the medication the less effective it is and it becomes addictive. She could have been taking it for quite awhile and RF seemed to know about her using it so it still does not explain her taking a drug when they planned on going snorkeling. And it does not explain her appearance as if she were ready to go for dinner and not prepared to go snorkeling. On top of that there are witnesses that claim they never went into the water.

I would think that the reason she could not eat is because of the pill. And since there is no body, there are no witnesses she actually took the pill just GG's word for it. If he is proven to have given false statements then it is not likely anyone will consider this anything other than if he knew she had taken a sleeping pill why bring her snorkeling. jmo

BEM: I always have something to snack on right after I take an ambien...and there have been reports of people eating, while on them, and not realizing they had done so.

I still don't believe she took an ambien before going snorkeling - unless she left a suicide note.....

 

[Micheline]

Google Earth giives a good understanding of the area. I've posted many maps throughout the investigation ... is there anything more specific you're looking for?

Thanks Otto I appreciate it.

What I am looking for is, what exactly the front and the back of the RumReef restaurant is.
Is the area where the cars are parked (and where we have seen Robyn and GG walking to and from the car) the back of the restaurant? TIA

 

[LambChop]

BEM: I always have something to snack on right after I take an ambien...and there have been reports of people eating, while on them, and not realizing they had done so.

I still don't believe she took an ambien before going snorkeling - unless she left a suicide note.....

Do the doctor's prescribe the dosage by your weight? I would think if you weighed 100 compared to someone who weighed 200 it might make a difference in how you react. jmo