ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

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  • #681
Thanks LambChop, you have stopped me "mid circle". Now could we agree on the NAME of that beach in which they entered? That would be a good start. ALE and GG have agreed they entered the water at ------ Beach??

It's the peninsula area at Baby Beach. If you are standing on the peninsula facing the ocean (south) Rodger's Beach is to the right, Baby Beach is behind you, to the left of the peninsula is the opening to the Baby Beach cove and one the other side of the opening is the channel area for snorkelers.

I think it becomes confusing because Aruban's name their beaches by location so one long stretch of beach could have several names. The peninsula on the ocean side is really not a beach area and you don't see people swimming there, it is just too hard to get into the water unless you have substantial footwear on. This is why GG still had his sneakers on. He could not get into that water over those rocks without a great deal of difficulty. Common sense should tell you it's not worth breaking your ankle trying to get into the water. jmo
 
  • #682
OK, so I am going to call it Baby Beach Cove, because GG said it was behind the RR restaurant and Dive shop......and there are places in that Cove to enter the water where rocks are not an issue.
 
  • #683
I found the article.
ALE said they found Ambien in the hotelroom and that these were prescribed to Robyn. Giordano told them Robyn was carrying pills and that he did not know what they were for but that she had taken one of the pills that afternoon. No discrepancy here.

Investigators found Ambien in the hotel room Gardner shared with Giordano. She is prescribed the sleeping pills. Giordano told investigators Gardner took one of the pills in the afternoon. Later that day, he maintains Gardner disappeared while snorkeling. A combination of alcohol and a sleeping pill would make a person more vulnerable to a strong current.http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/0...nts-expected-in-robyn-gardner-case-65872.html

About AMBIEN. There was a discussion about this drug on thread #4 beginning around post #144, but recently saw this article:
Marie Claire magazine, January 2012 (most recent edition) by Antonia Wright titled "THE BREAKUP PILL". If you get a chance it is a very good read , it may be online.

Just a few quotes of interest:

"the doctor gave me one warning LIE DOWN RIGHT AFTER YOU TAKE IT"

the author having ignored this warning "began to love the strange off-kilter high that kicked in about 5 minutes after I swallowed that pill"

" It seemed like a Psychedelic indulgence worth drawing out"

The author then goes on to say while under the influence of ambien she
(paraphrased) went on to shop on line to the tune of thousands of dollars, eat peanut butter and butter sandwiches, gaining 20 lbs (who knew), have wild role-playing sex, and heart to heart talks with her husband ......NONE OF WHICH SHE REMEMBERED!

I have experienced this drug and am very familiar with the "ambien blackout".

I know, I know...so what's my point?
Well If RG had taken this drug during the afternoon , she would of experienced that "off-kilter high"---was it enough to allow her inhibitions to be lowered and go snorkeling, perhaps becoming disoriented while swimming, or even experiencing some form of seizure contributing to her demise??? Remember RG was combining this drug with another depressant--alcohol.

Don't know but you can be sure it is a case for reasonable doubt if this case goes to court....and it could be possible, don't you think?
 
  • #684
OK, so I am going to call it Baby Beach Cove, because GG said it was behind the RR restaurant and Dive shop......and there are places in that Cove to enter the water where rocks are not an issue.

Rocks are not an issue on the cove side. GG claims he went into the water on the ocean side where there are rocks. The idea of the peninsula is to protect the cove enclosure from washing away. That is the reason for the rocks. The inside of the circle area all the way around is sand. The outer portion is very rocky. It's constructed the same as any area where their is a protection from the sea to keep the cove area protected. The peninsula functions as a breaker not a beach. And we know for a fact that GG was not on the beach side inside the cove he was on the ocean side where the rock are located. It is very visible in the pictures where GG is standing with the police investigators looking out at the ocean. jmo
 
  • #685
About AMBIEN. There was a discussion about this drug on thread #4 beginning around post #144, but recently saw this article:
Marie Claire magazine, January 2012 (most recent edition) by Antonia Wright titled "THE BREAKUP PILL". If you get a chance it is a very good read , it may be online.

Just a few quotes of interest:

"the doctor gave me one warning LIE DOWN RIGHT AFTER YOU TAKE IT"

the author having ignored this warning "began to love the strange off-kilter high that kicked in about 5 minutes after I swallowed that pill"

" It seemed like a Psychedelic indulgence worth drawing out"

The author then goes on to say while under the influence of ambien she
(paraphrased) went on to shop on line to the tune of thousands of dollars, eat peanut butter and butter sandwiches, gaining 20 lbs (who knew), have wild role-playing sex, and heart to heart talks with her husband ......NONE OF WHICH SHE REMEMBERED!

I have experienced this drug and am very familiar with the "ambien blackout".

I know, I know...so what's my point?
Well If RG had taken this drug during the afternoon , she would of experienced that "off-kilter high"---was it enough to allow her inhibitions to be lowered and go snorkeling, perhaps becoming disoriented while swimming, or even experiencing some form of seizure contributing to her demise??? Remember RG was combining this drug with another depressant--alcohol.

Don't know but you can be sure it is a case for reasonable doubt if this case goes to court....and it could be possible, don't you think?

And doesn't that article also say that the longer you have been taking the medication the less effective it is and it becomes addictive. She could have been taking it for quite awhile and RF seemed to know about her using it so it still does not explain her taking a drug when they planned on going snorkeling. And it does not explain her appearance as if she were ready to go for dinner and not prepared to go snorkeling. On top of that there are witnesses that claim they never went into the water.

I would think that the reason she could not eat is because of the pill. And since there is no body, there are no witnesses she actually took the pill just GG's word for it. If he is proven to have given false statements then it is not likely anyone will consider this anything other than if he knew she had taken a sleeping pill why bring her snorkeling. jmo
 
  • #686
OK, so I am going to call it Baby Beach Cove, because GG said it was behind the RR restaurant and Dive shop......and there are places in that Cove to enter the water where rocks are not an issue.

I would say Nanki Beach.

I found some more stuff on a link to another forum with the original media link but that link does not seem to exist anymore and the link to the forum, I suspect would be out of bounds.
Not very nice people there.

I could post the picture but the pic has a lifeless body being lifted out of the water and its not very nice.

<modsnip>
 
  • #687
It was never established that this was a good place to snorkel. In fact Mr. Silva said it was not a good place to go into the water (video link provided earlier). Another video shows no fish just a lot of rocks jutting up from the sandy bottom. There is nothing in the video that would attract fish, no reef or vegetation. The only thing we can see are small one inch clear colored fish. The dive shop manager claims divers enter the water from the Rodger's Beach side where there is vegetation and recommended snorkeling is in the channel that runs along the easterly side of Baby Beach. The channel is the only recommended area for snorkelers to swim and I believe there is a sign on the Baby Beach side warning snorkelers to use the channel. So it has never been established that there is good snorkeling in that exact location but if you have a link it would be interesting to check it out. Thanks jmo

If you are meaning the Silva chap that is a fisherman, I don't think he is a reliable source to be basing facts on.

From what has been said to me is that sources must be confirmed reliable sources and then surely that must extend to all sources of information and not just selective information.

And personally, I would not put much credence on that underwater video as clearly it is a video that wishes to project a certain point of view.
 
  • #688
If you are meaning the Silva chap that is a fisherman, I don't think he is a reliable source to be basing facts on.

From what has been said to me is that sources must be confirmed reliable sources and then surely that must extend to all sources of information and not just selective information.

And personally, I would not put much credence on that underwater video as clearly it is a video that wishes to project a certain point of view.

Why would you say this man is not a reliable source? Witnesses are witnesses. He was physically there and his account of what he saw matches with other statements from other witnesses. That would make him a reliable witness.

Why would you say this is selective information???

The underwater video is what it is. It is accurate in that it depicts exactly what you can see when you get into the water. Not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to say. It's a video of approximately where GG claims they went into the water and is typical of that whole peninsula area on the ocean side. Someone was gracious enough to do that video for us. It was presented as an informational video, nothing more, nothing less. Certainly there was nothing sensational about it. Water, rocks and sand. That pretty much all you see. jmo
 
  • #689
I would say Nanki Beach.

I found some more stuff on a link to another forum with the original media link but that link does not seem to exist anymore and the link to the forum, I suspect would be out of bounds.
Not very nice people there.

I could post the picture but the pic has a lifeless body being lifted out of the water and its not very nice.

If anyone wants the link to the pic, PM me.

No. That is not correct. Nanki is on the other side of Baby Beach.

There's the refinery, then Nanki Beach, followed by Rodger's Beach as it curves around and Baby Beach is the enclosed cove where the peninsula protects the cove. Nanki is located on the cove area open to the ocean and is to the west of the clubhouse, restaurant and dive shop. Nanki is the name of the cove. jmo
 
  • #690
About AMBIEN. There was a discussion about this drug on thread #4 beginning around post #144, but recently saw this article:
Marie Claire magazine, January 2012 (most recent edition) by Antonia Wright titled "THE BREAKUP PILL". If you get a chance it is a very good read , it may be online.

Just a few quotes of interest:

"the doctor gave me one warning LIE DOWN RIGHT AFTER YOU TAKE IT"

the author having ignored this warning "began to love the strange off-kilter high that kicked in about 5 minutes after I swallowed that pill"

" It seemed like a Psychedelic indulgence worth drawing out"

The author then goes on to say while under the influence of ambien she
(paraphrased) went on to shop on line to the tune of thousands of dollars, eat peanut butter and butter sandwiches, gaining 20 lbs (who knew), have wild role-playing sex, and heart to heart talks with her husband ......NONE OF WHICH SHE REMEMBERED!

I have experienced this drug and am very familiar with the "ambien blackout".

I know, I know...so what's my point?
Well If RG had taken this drug during the afternoon , she would of experienced that "off-kilter high"---was it enough to allow her inhibitions to be lowered and go snorkeling, perhaps becoming disoriented while swimming, or even experiencing some form of seizure contributing to her demise??? Remember RG was combining this drug with another depressant--alcohol.

Don't know but you can be sure it is a case for reasonable doubt if this case goes to court....and it could be possible, don't you think?

I've taken ambien for years - the directions are to lay down immediately after taking them, period. If a person chooses not to follow the directions, then there's no telling what effect the drug will have. Was Robyn known to abuse drugs? If not, then I would not give much credence to what Giordano says -

BEM:and it should certainly not be stated as fact.
 
  • #691
OK, I am going to go out on a limb here and say (my opinion only)

Since ALE has NEVER confirmed any of these "inconsistent" statements as A....B.....C.... unless and until they are willing to put that specific information out there --How can it be said everything that might prove his innocence is a LIE. I don't get that thinking sooo here is how I see it:

Nanki beach, Baby Beach,Baby Beach Cove, Rocky Point, Rocky Road--yada, yada, yada, are ALL the same I just choose to use Baby Beach Cove in referring to that point.

Whatever reasons ALE have for "the inconsistency statement" does not change the fact that:
The overall account GG has given is "consistent" with Robyn drowning. Any other inconsistencies there may be were not important enough to hold GG any longer than the 4 months he was there. Where I might add he told the same account over a 4 month period.
Now some of his statements might not "make sense" to ALE, but that was not enough in and of itself to hold him in custody let alone charge him with murder. Right?
So we can dissect the literal meaning of sentences and words, but it does not prove that his account is a LIE.
The Ambien story I noted did NOT say the more one uses it the less effect it is, it did say it is addictive. The fact that it doesn't "make sense" that Robin would go snorkeling after taking ambien and alcohol , means nothing, it certainly does not mean it is a lie I am sure to you and I and ALE and the rest of the world it seems like a a stupid thing to do, but people DO STUPID THINGS.
There is no right or wrong about this account it just is what it is, and ALE believes all the stupid actions in the world are CONSISTANT with a drowning in this instance...or they would have charged him.

The fisherman witness was NOT interviewed by ALE, only by MSNBC, any other witness accounts must not have been anything earth shattering , had they been, the theory of accidental drowning for the insurance money would not have been put forth as a motive.

There is one think you have to think about may be guilty of drowning Robyn, yes, but the exact point they went into the water is not worth the time we have spent on it.

SHE went in the water--don't you think ALE would have made sure all evidence consistent with that has been accounted for....meaning all of her belongings relating to a "swim" were accounted for. The dress, her keys, her shoes , her purse, etc. There would be cause for concern if those things were "all missing", leading one to believe she had them on when she was "murdered, now that would be an "inconsistency" you could call GG a liar over.

OK---sorry for the rant, but it becomes tedious arguing over some of these things, do you realize we spent an entire two days of posting on "where they went into the water", Yikes--it doesn't matter, they did in spite of rocks, craters,fish, no fish, caves no caves, current, no current, sneakers, no sneakers, cut toe, no cut toe, hair extensions, makeup the whole ball of wax--they still seem to have overcome ALL of those obstacles and got into that water.
 
  • #692
-respectfully snipped and bolded by me-


Last night I came across the video where this info originates.

"According to the police report, obtained by ABC News, Giordano told investigators that he and Robyn were drinking Vodka at the Marriott, and Robyn had a bottle of pills in her bag, I do not know what those pills are for".

pills.jpg


http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/44225927#44225927

Thanks Micheline! I've added the video to my list as reference! :seeya:
 
  • #693
R.U.Kidding!

I agree with everything you have said.
With regards to where they went into the water, you are correct, it is really not that important however this was just one other so called inconsistancy that has been used by the media and many others to convict this man of some crime that may not have even been committed.
And its for that reason that I disputed this story, amongst other "stories turned fact" that are being used to convict this man in the Court of Public Opinion.
 
  • #694
About AMBIEN. There was a discussion about this drug on thread #4 beginning around post #144, but recently saw this article:
Marie Claire magazine, January 2012 (most recent edition) by Antonia Wright titled "THE BREAKUP PILL". If you get a chance it is a very good read , it may be online.

Just a few quotes of interest:

"the doctor gave me one warning LIE DOWN RIGHT AFTER YOU TAKE IT"

the author having ignored this warning "began to love the strange off-kilter high that kicked in about 5 minutes after I swallowed that pill"

" It seemed like a Psychedelic indulgence worth drawing out"

The author then goes on to say while under the influence of ambien she
(paraphrased) went on to shop on line to the tune of thousands of dollars, eat peanut butter and butter sandwiches, gaining 20 lbs (who knew), have wild role-playing sex, and heart to heart talks with her husband ......NONE OF WHICH SHE REMEMBERED!

I have experienced this drug and am very familiar with the "ambien blackout".

I know, I know...so what's my point?
Well If RG had taken this drug during the afternoon , she would of experienced that "off-kilter high"---was it enough to allow her inhibitions to be lowered and go snorkeling, perhaps becoming disoriented while swimming, or even experiencing some form of seizure contributing to her demise??? Remember RG was combining this drug with another depressant--alcohol.

Don't know but you can be sure it is a case for reasonable doubt if this case goes to court....and it could be possible, don't you think?


Anything's possible, I guess. Don't know what Aruba's laws are either. But here in the states, if you let someone drink and drive and someone dies, it is manslaughter at least.

If GG knew, and he professed to, that she had taken sleeping pills, then he took her out in the ocean, he holds some responsibility. Not sure how that plays out in Aruba, though. JMO
 
  • #695
OK, I am going to go out on a limb here and say (my opinion only)

Since ALE has NEVER confirmed any of these "inconsistent" statements as A....B.....C.... unless and until they are willing to put that specific information out there --How can it be said everything that might prove his innocence is a LIE. I don't get that thinking sooo here is how I see it:

Nanki beach, Baby Beach,Baby Beach Cove, Rocky Point, Rocky Road--yada, yada, yada, are ALL the same I just choose to use Baby Beach Cove in referring to that point.

Whatever reasons ALE have for "the inconsistency statement" does not change the fact that:
The overall account GG has given is "consistent" with Robyn drowning. Any other inconsistencies there may be were not important enough to hold GG any longer than the 4 months he was there. Where I might add he told the same account over a 4 month period.
Now some of his statements might not "make sense" to ALE, but that was not enough in and of itself to hold him in custody let alone charge him with murder. Right?
So we can dissect the literal meaning of sentences and words, but it does not prove that his account is a LIE.
The Ambien story I noted did NOT say the more one uses it the less effect it is, it did say it is addictive. The fact that it doesn't "make sense" that Robin would go snorkeling after taking ambien and alcohol , means nothing, it certainly does not mean it is a lie I am sure to you and I and ALE and the rest of the world it seems like a a stupid thing to do, but people DO STUPID THINGS.
There is no right or wrong about this account it just is what it is, and ALE believes all the stupid actions in the world are CONSISTANT with a drowning in this instance...or they would have charged him.

The fisherman witness was NOT interviewed by ALE, only by MSNBC, any other witness accounts must not have been anything earth shattering , had they been, the theory of accidental drowning for the insurance money would not have been put forth as a motive.

There is one think you have to think about may be guilty of drowning Robyn, yes, but the exact point they went into the water is not worth the time we have spent on it.

SHE went in the water--don't you think ALE would have made sure all evidence consistent with that has been accounted for....meaning all of her belongings relating to a "swim" were accounted for. The dress, her keys, her shoes , her purse, etc. There would be cause for concern if those things were "all missing", leading one to believe she had them on when she was "murdered, now that would be an "inconsistency" you could call GG a liar over.

OK---sorry for the rant, but it becomes tedious arguing over some of these things, do you realize we spent an entire two days of posting on "where they went into the water", Yikes--it doesn't matter, they did in spite of rocks, craters,fish, no fish, caves no caves, current, no current, sneakers, no sneakers, cut toe, no cut toe, hair extensions, makeup the whole ball of wax--they still seem to have overcome ALL of those obstacles and got into that water.

Well now, let me see.... :waitasec:

Ok, true ALE hasn't confirmed specifically what the inconsistent statements are, we have very little from ALE, period.

True, the name of the alleged point of entry into the water is not all that important at this stage.

Conditions of the water, area, terrain, etc. do matter, imo, due to the fact that if the conditions are such that a sane person of normal intelligence would find the conditions unappealing and appearing to be unsafe to the point they would or would not go "snorkeling" in that area, then it is much less believable that they would have gone into the water at the alleged location. Which gives GG's story little credibility, imo.

We have only GG's word for what happened, and whatever evidence that ALE and the FBI have that we are obviously not aware of.

We also have no reason to believe that ALE did not interview the fisherman / fishermen, however many there were. They have stated they have interviewed numerous witnesses. Why not these fishermen, some of the only eye witnesses to the case ? I feel sure they have.

ALE had enough circumstantial evidence to give them reason to disbelieve GG's account of the events and his story in general, that they were able to hold him for 4 months. That is something. Just not enough to take him to court at this point. That does not mean he is innocent, or that they don't or won't have the evidence at some point.

The behavior of GG following the event also cannot be discounted or taken lightly. His behavior was that of a person who showed no emotions or concern for Robyn, no remorse afterward for whatever happened to her, and only concern for himself in the hours, days and weeks following the event.

The insurance policy is not a dead issue, imo. He was not fairing well financially, so that he spent extra precious dollars on a 1.5 mill policy for a travel companion with him as beneficiary is highly suspicious, imo.

This case is still moving forward, so we will all just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully it won't be like the NH case and go on and on and never be resolved.
 
  • #696
T. Stein said serious inconsistencies. GG spent 4 months in jail and they certainly weren't holding him on a whim. We can see inconsistencies in his statement to GMA and GR. If someone chooses to believe him that is their choice. I, for one, do not believe his story. The FBI had enough reason with the information presented to them by the Aruban authorities to get a warrant to search his home and remove items. The investigation is ongoing at this point in time. If he had been cleared by the FBI JB would be calling a news conference.

I find that if a forum upsets me, I just stop going there. This case is interesting to me and I hope everyone who posts here is just as interested in finding out what happened to Robyn. It makes no sense that her body would disappear within the hour under calm conditions in the ocean when a recent drowning with what appears to be rougher conditions would be right there for them to find her.

In Aruba GG was released in what we would here consider as being bailed out. He still remains there a prime suspect, which should tell us a lot. The fact that Aruba does not release information does not change the fact that anyone with common sense can see what GG is claiming is suspicious. That is undeniable.

As far as Mr. Silva we don't know that LE hasn't followed up and interviewed him only at the time of the interview with the reporters they had not yet done so. All we know is that GMA is reporting that they have seen witness statements and they all are the same, including Mr. Silva's claim that GG and RG never went into the water. There was also a report that someone in a boat that was in the area never saw them go into the water. T. Stein said they would be following up on that lead also. To say Mr. Silva is not a reliable witness is not true if his story is consistent with what the others are claiming. An unreliable witness is one who has been discredited. That has not happened with any of the witnesses. jmo
 
  • #697
Another thing that bothers me about GG. He was describing to Robin, GMA, how he was running to get help and he made the comment "not like I'm running a marathon and come around the corner to high-five everyone......" That statement shows how totally detached he is from what he claims happened. I can't believe he used that analogy. Also isn't it ironic that his interviewer's name is also Robin and how flip he became with her. It shows his total disrespect of women (not that we didn't already know his history). If he did not want to be interviewed he would not have been there. My guess would be he just was not happy being interviewed by a woman.

The worst part of his interview was when he said he took out the insurance so his sons could have money in case he "disappeared" while on vacation. Not in case he died, or was killed but "disappeared." Sometimes a misspoken word speaks volumes.

Neighbors complaining he throws dead animals into their yard, a dead squirrel on their windshield. He has a lot of dead animals at his disposal and no one thinks this is unusual. jmo
 
  • #698
Just to clear up a few things:

A. I do not believe GG is innocent.......or guilty (thus the ability to see everyone's POV)

B. This Forum does not upset me, some of the answers given to discredit GG do...but everyone is entitled to their opinion. That is good by me.

C. I care very much about RG and am a part of this WS forum in hopes of exploring the "possibilities"and if GG is found to be guilty I will be very happy RG has found justice.

D. I do not believe it helps further an investigation if you are blinded by the certainty of one persons guilt to the exclusion of reasonable debate. I believe the posters at Web Sleuths to be better than that.

My POV is my POV--I have many doubts about GG---and if all of the "serious discrepancies" are released by ALE as factual evidence, I would be the first one to accept the very real possibility he did in fact murder RG.

....But until these discrepancies are ALE confirmed, I will choose to realize there is also a very real possibility it was an accident.

Not telling anyone how to live there life. If the purpose of this debate is to find out what might have happened to Robyn Gardner, believing GG is the Murderer to the exclusion of all else, IMO, seems the wrong way to go about it.Just sayin, and won't say anymore on the subject, K?





A
 
  • #699
Another thing that bothers me about GG. He was describing to Robin, GMA, how he was running to get help and he made the comment "not like I'm running a marathon and come around the corner to high-five everyone......" That statement shows how totally detached he is from what he claims happened. I can't believe he used that analogy. Also isn't it ironic that his interviewer's name is also Robin and how flip he became with her. It shows his total disrespect of women (not that we didn't already know his history). If he did not want to be interviewed he would not have been there. My guess would be he just was not happy being interviewed by a woman.

The worst part of his interview was when he said he took out the insurance so his sons could have money in case he "disappeared" while on vacation. Not in case he died, or was killed but "disappeared." Sometimes a misspoken word speaks volumes.

Neighbors complaining he throws dead animals into their yard, a dead squirrel on their windshield. He has a lot of dead animals at his disposal and no one thinks this is unusual. jmo

IMO, the high five statement was a sarcastic remark on his part and I would probably have said the same.

I am a bit confused that you first say he became "flip" (not sure exactly that meaning but I get the gist of it) with her because her name is Robin and then you say its because she is a woman, very confusing.

With regards to the "disappeared" statement, I would probably have also said disappeared rather than killed or died and I don't see anything out of place with that statement.

The dead animals side, I view that as heresay.
 
  • #700
So it has never been established that there is good snorkeling in that exact location but if you have a link it would be interesting to check it out. Thanks jmo



i asked for a similar example (from a travel site, a snorkel/watersports site, a visit aruba site etc) days ago... one never came.
 
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