Ask Super

[Solace]

Hi Eagle,

I've heard people talk about a tupperware container in JB's room (like an intruder brought it with him or something), but I haven't seen that statement credited to LS.

The pineapple just doesn't fit. If the parents fed it to her after they got home, what purpose would it serve to deny it? Even lay people know police check stomach contents to determine time of death. And the thought of an intruder bringing and feeding her pineapple then waiting another hour or two to kill her is also uncredible.

It's the only piece of the puzzle I can't get to fit.

Alexi

Alexi, Lou Smit is the one who brought the tupperware theory up - that a stranger brought it to the bedroom and lured JB with it.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Didn't someone say there were actually beads in that tupperware container? I thought I had read that somewhere.

How could an intruder count on being able to lure a child with pineapple? For all he knew, she'd eaten as much as she could at the party she went to and wouldn't be hungry at all.

I also can't imagine many children being woken up from a deep sleep and immediately losing all caution and going somewhere with a stranger because he had some fruit. Maybe if he had some really fantastically rare candy or jeez, even Pokemon cards (a child predator near my house lured his last 9 year old victim with Pokemon cards), he might get the child out of bed...but what kid gets woken up and is so thrilled to see pineapple that she gets right up and heads off with someone who's in her bedroom when clearly that person shouldn't be? She was 6, not 2!

 

[Solace]

Didn't someone say there were actually beads in that tupperware container? I thought I had read that somewhere.

How could an intruder count on being able to lure a child with pineapple? For all he knew, she'd eaten as much as she could at the party she went to and wouldn't be hungry at all.

I also can't imagine many children being woken up from a deep sleep and immediately losing all caution and going somewhere with a stranger because he had some fruit. Maybe if he had some really fantastically rare candy or jeez, even Pokemon cards (a child predator near my house lured his last 9 year old victim with Pokemon cards), he might get the child out of bed...but what kid gets woken up and is so thrilled to see pineapple that she gets right up and heads off with someone who's in her bedroom when clearly that person shouldn't be? She was 6, not 2!

I am surprised Lou Smit didn't break out the cognac and cigars when interviewing John. So it does not surprise me that he comes up with this ludicrous theory "what is in that tupperware, it must be pineapple and that is what the intruder did - he brought her pineapple".

The man was so unprofessional in this case - he was just what Alex Hunter and the Ramseys needed. You can always find one. Look at John Douglas - his belief goes against everything he has written about parents murdering their children. All the stressers that Patsy had around her are exactly what John Douglas said would aid and abet a parent in murdering their child.

 

[rashomon]

Didn't someone say there were actually beads in that tupperware container? I thought I had read that somewhere.

How could an intruder count on being able to lure a child with pineapple? For all he knew, she'd eaten as much as she could at the party she went to and wouldn't be hungry at all.

I also can't imagine many children being woken up from a deep sleep and immediately losing all caution and going somewhere with a stranger because he had some fruit. Maybe if he had some really fantastically rare candy or jeez, even Pokemon cards (a child predator near my house lured his last 9 year old victim with Pokemon cards), he might get the child out of bed...but what kid gets woken up and is so thrilled to see pineapple that she gets right up and heads off with someone who's in her bedroom when clearly that person shouldn't be? She was 6, not 2!

Nuisanceposter, you are sooo right about that! The idea that a sexual predator would have been able to lure JB anywhere because he had some pineapple borders on the comical. LOL!

 

[Show Me]

Nuisanceposter, you are sooo right about that! The idea that a sexual predator would have been able to lure JB anywhere because he had some pineapple borders on the comical. LOL!

Yep...good old intruder KNEW JonBenet was hungry for pineapple, of course intruder didn't bring any pineapple, intruder had to use the Ramsey pineapple...just like using the Ramsey paintbrush, notepad, pen.

 

[coloradokares]

Yep...good old intruder KNEW JonBenet was hungry for pineapple, of course intruder didn't bring any pineapple, intruder had to use the Ramsey pineapple...just like using the Ramsey paintbrush, notepad, pen.

You just can't get good intruders anymore... :doh:

 

[JMO8778]

You just can't get good intruders anymore... :doh:

where can I find a good one? I need someone to blame for all the little things I do wrong..'no honey,I didn't do it... intruderman did!'
poor imaginary intruders...they get blamed for everything these days

 

[Alexi]

Alexi,

Associating with JonBenet after they got home, exposes the Ramseys to a lot of questions, including questions on the pineapple, a situation, that they clearly would not be comfortable with.

Sticking to their story that JonBenet was asleep when they reached home, bypasses that situation.

Wild

wildestkabs

Yes, I thought about that after I posted and also that the parents might have wanted to muddle the time of death by claiming to know nothing about her eating pineapple (see my post: even a lay person knows...duh!)

In my mind, everything else can be explained by an intruder. It would be silly for the Ramseys to make a mystery out of something so minor, "Yes, we gave JonBenet some pineapple and then put her to bed."

Possibly they forgot about the pineapple and didn't want to be caught contradicting themselves when they said they'd carried her straight up to bed. But they had access to their original statements and pointed out that they mistakenly reported John as saying he read to JB before she went to bed instead of he read to himself a bit before going to sleep. They could have let the original report stand adding, "yeah, we gave her some pineapple, read her a story, and she was asleep by 10:00."

Hopefully, I'm getting my point across - lying about pineapple makes about as much sense as an intruder luring her out of her bed with pineapple. Who needs pineapple when you have a stun gun?

 

[rashomon]

I am surprised Lou Smit didn't break out the cognac and cigars when interviewing John. So it does not surprise me that he comes up with this ludicrous theory "what is in that tupperware, it must be pineapple and that is what the intruder did - he brought her pineapple".

The man was so unprofessional in this case - he was just what Alex Hunter and the Ramseys needed. You can always find one. Look at John Douglas - his belief goes against everything he has written about parents murdering their children. All the stressers that Patsy had around her are exactly what John Douglas said would aid and abet a parent in murdering their child.

Lou Smit's interview with John Ramsey is a joke. Smit sounded more like John Ramsey's defense attorney than like an investigator. Like a lawyer planning his defense strategy together with his client John.
A bowl of fresh pineapple was sitting on the Ramsey kitchen table with Patsy's fingerprints on it, and pineapple was found inside JB's digestive tract. But instead of putting two and two together like he should have, Smit theorizes about the intruder bringing JB pineapple in a tupperware. Priceless!

You said that so well, Solace: Smit was just what Alex Hunter and the Ramseys needed.
And John Douglas should be ashamed of himself. He writes a book where he analyzes what leads parents to kill their children, how these parents deal with the body etc, and then he shuts his eyes to the fact that the Ramseys fit the bill. Simply incredible.
Douglas has been heavily criticized by other criminal profilers for that. Serves him right!

 

[Show Me]

You just can't get good intruders anymore... :doh:

Stupid foreign faction people.....no organization skills whatsoever.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Why did the pineapple survive to the next day (in a bowl in the refrigerator) but not JonBenet?

 

[Eagle1]

Notice there were none of JonBenet's prints on the bowl or spoon in the kitchen. So Smit was probably right about the tupperware up in her room having contained pineapple, because for one thing he could probably smell it. Her toilet was unflushed, so she'd probably gotten up to go to the bathroom and stopped by to see Burke, tell him she was hungry, etc. If I were a kid her age I doubt I would eat cracked crab, and she hadn't been really well.

Someone said maybe there were fuzzy beads in the bowl upstairs. Has anyone here ever heard of fuzzy beads? I suppose they could exist. But judging by the evidence we do have in this case, it looks like Burke dished out some pineapple for JonBenet to take up to her room, or maybe he took it up to her room, to eat with her fingers. He'd used a large serving spoon you don't eat with just to dish out the pineapple.

Another someone said a visitor may have left a bowl of pineapple in their fridge with plastic wrap over the top so the visitor's prints weren't on it, and PR had either just shoved it around in the fridge without really looking at it, all of which is certainly possible. She may not have lied all the time, and certainly wasn't very crazy or she'd have tripped up somehow and given herself away.

Pineapple was evidently the very last thing eaten, so this scenario could pretty well fit, not unusual or unlikely.

 

[JMO8778]

The pineapple found in JB was consistant with what was in the bowl...right down to the rind.Her prints wouldn't be on it if someone else served it to her..and since it was fresh,I doubt BR cut it up for her.I don't recall reading if there was a knife used to cut it that was found..maybe that's evidence being held back?I'm betting it had PR's fingerprints on it. How could a 6 yo cut up pineapple and serve it to herself???I've seen adults cut themselves trying to slice it ! (did anybody see that on QVC a few yrs ago? ...the host had to go to ER in the middle of the show !)
JR told 3 different ppl in LE that he read to *JB* b/f bed..not that *he read...that means either 3 ppl lied,or 3 ppl heard wrong...not likely,esp given the fact the 'we put her straight to bed' story doesn't add up.
Same as PR's comments don't add up...she told LE JB wore the red shirt to bed the first time...then she changed her story...even omitting the color at one point...simply saying 'a polo type shirt'. too vague to believe,and obv. what her lawyer told her to say.

 

[rashomon]

Hi Dave,
I just asked a medical question on the forensic evidence thread (post #310),
maybe you could help me with this.
TIA.

 

[Dru]

JMO8778, unless I'm mistaken the pineapple was pre-cut, purchased that way by PR at the local grocery store. So nobody had to cut it up for her.

My biggest problem with the BR theories is the question of timing. If BR and JBR woke up during the night, went downstairs and ate pineapple, then you have the same 'bugaboo' you have with the intruder--they had to be awake and playing around for two hours before the murder took place.

OTOH, if JBR ate pineapple before she went to bed (around 9pm or so) then what? BR wakes her up, takes her to the basement etc.? And when exactly does all this happen? It couldn't be earlier than 11pm, both by the pineapple evidence and the fact that the R's didn't go to bed till about 10:30 at the earliest. So, say the 'fun and games' start around 11, and JBR is dead by midnight. Then what? How do the R's find out about it? What time is it when they start all the mad staging?

More importantly, why, in all the staging of JBR that then ensues, do they leave the garrotte, if BR really was playing games with JBR? They had time to write the war and peace of ransom notes; why not burn, bury, or otherwise destroy the garrotte, and make JBR's death look like the work of a 'small foreign faction' instead of a creepy pedo?

The BR theories, to me, really don't add up.

 

[UKGuy]

JMO8778, unless I'm mistaken the pineapple was pre-cut, purchased that way by PR at the local grocery store. So nobody had to cut it up for her.

My biggest problem with the BR theories is the question of timing. If BR and JBR woke up during the night, went downstairs and ate pineapple, then you have the same 'bugaboo' you have with the intruder--they had to be awake and playing around for two hours before the murder took place.

OTOH, if JBR ate pineapple before she went to bed (around 9pm or so) then what? BR wakes her up, takes her to the basement etc.? And when exactly does all this happen? It couldn't be earlier than 11pm, both by the pineapple evidence and the fact that the R's didn't go to bed till about 10:30 at the earliest. So, say the 'fun and games' start around 11, and JBR is dead by midnight. Then what? How do the R's find out about it? What time is it when they start all the mad staging?

More importantly, why, in all the staging of JBR that then ensues, do they leave the garrotte, if BR really was playing games with JBR? They had time to write the war and peace of ransom notes; why not burn, bury, or otherwise destroy the garrotte, and make JBR's death look like the work of a 'small foreign faction' instead of a creepy pedo?

The BR theories, to me, really don't add up.

Dru,

You have obviously had your thinking cap on, a lot of what you say I agree with.

Although some specific theory can be incorrect say my Sexual Rage theory, this does not eliminate the same suspect in some other theory!

So a BDI theory imo is still a distinct possibility.



.

 

[BBB167893]

There isn't a lot of physical evidence against either John or Patsy Ramsey.

Oh, yeah?!

SD, why is it that FW is not talking? [openly, that is; maybe he has spilled all he knows, and if so, who would he have told?] The White's seem to have dropped off the face of the earth...

Maybe he's talked out.

Who has the photos from the Christmas party?

I would imagine the police. But they've never been released. Can't figure it.

Is there incriminating information/evidence (other than what is readily available) implicating PR and/or JR "beyond a reasonable doubt" that is being suppressed or purposely kept quiet - and if so, why do you think that is?

I used to think there was. Now I don't think so.

Does JR have "dirt" on his friends/colleagues/associates/family that would keep them from telling what (if anything) they know?

I would imagine, given what his PIs were doing!

The pineapple just doesn't fit. If the parents fed it to her after they got home, what purpose would it serve to deny it?

That's easy: it would contradict their alibis, such as they were.

And John Douglas should be ashamed of himself. He writes a book where he analyzes what leads parents to kill their children, how these parents deal with the body etc, and then he shuts his eyes to the fact that the Ramseys fit the bill. Simply incredible.
Douglas has been heavily criticized by other criminal profilers for that. Serves him right!

Damn straight!

Hi Dave,
I just asked a medical question on the forensic evidence thread (post #310),
maybe you could help me with this.

I already did over at FFJ, rash.

 

[Camper]

AFTER this long, I still ponder these things.

1. WHY and HOW was the outdoor light NOT on, when the neighbor said it was ALWAYS ON - WAS it on a timer (WE never knew that tidbit) OR did some small child on instruction twist the bulb (to turn it off) pending arrival of a 'quiet visitor in the night'. Hmmm, secret visit from Santa AFTER Christmas-which could have been Christmas night OR anytime time AFTER Christmas.

My recollection after this many years, is that WE ? knew that the bulb had been manually turned to eliminate the light 'that night'. Please correct me IF my memory is faulty.

2. WHY wasn't the house alarm ON Christmas night? Could it have been for the same reasons I pose in #1?
Alarm off, pending visitor could enter without notice by the family who were sleeping ? IF they all were.

3. Could the 'expected' visitor have brought the pineapple?
A better question would be - WHEN did the pineapple ARRIVE, and was the visitor in the missing 'Traditional Family Christmas Movie? IF IF the visitor was on the missing traditional movie, then PR might have excused herself to put the pineapple away.

.
.

 

[UKGuy]

AFTER this long, I still ponder these things.

1. WHY and HOW was the outdoor light NOT on, when the neighbor said it was ALWAYS ON - WAS it on a timer (WE never knew that tidbit) OR did some small child on instruction twist the bulb (to turn it off) pending arrival of a 'quiet visitor in the night'. Hmmm, secret visit from Santa AFTER Christmas-which could have been Christmas night OR anytime time AFTER Christmas.

My recollection after this many years, is that WE ? knew that the bulb had been manually turned to eliminate the light 'that night'. Please correct me IF my memory is faulty.

2. WHY wasn't the house alarm ON Christmas night? Could it have been for the same reasons I pose in #1?
Alarm off, pending visitor could enter without notice by the family who were sleeping ? IF they all were.

3. Could the 'expected' visitor have brought the pineapple?
A better question would be - WHEN did the pineapple ARRIVE, and was the visitor in the missing 'Traditional Family Christmas Movie? IF IF the visitor was on the missing traditional movie, then PR might have excused herself to put the pineapple away.

.
.

Camper,
If a visitor had brought the pineapple, then it begs more questions than answers.

Are Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints the only fingerprints on the bowl, are there any fingerprints on the serving spoon, if so, whose?

Why has the visitor left no trace behind?

And like her urine-soaked longjohns, why leave forensic evidence lying on the kitchen table, if you know it is directly linked with a visitor and the death of JonBenet?


.
.

 

[Camper]

Camper,
If a visitor had brought the pineapple, then it begs more questions than answers.

Are Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints the only fingerprints on the bowl, are there any fingerprints on the serving spoon, if so, whose?

As I recall there were no fingerprints found on the spoon.


Why has the visitor left no trace behind?
WELL the visitor did IF IF he/she left the pineapple.

And like her urine-soaked longjohns, why leave forensic evidence lying on the kitchen table, if you know it is directly linked with a visitor and the death of JonBenet?
Because the visitor ?, was not forensically trained, and did not connect the pineapple dots.

I know you did not mean the longjohns were left on the kitchen table - did YOU?
End of quoted post and my answers in blue.

.