At 16 Cyntoia Brown Killed A "Customer" Should she be Released from Prison?

[KaaBoom]

What do you gain by seeing a woman rot in prison for something she did at 16. If she had been killed instead it would have been a rare day that someone was given as much time as she has been given.

She was convicted of First Degree Murder, a Class A Felony in Tennessee. The penalty for a Class A Felony in Tennessee is 60 years, minus 9 years for good behavior. That is what murderers are sentenced to in Tennessee. Her sentence has been upheld by multiple courts as Constitutional. If you think that 60 years is too much (which by the way I do), then work to convince the Tennessee legislature to reduce the penalties. But a word of warning, if you manage to convince them, it would also lower the penalties for a lot of other crimes, including many crimes toward children. Regardless everybody has to be treated equal, including this woman. She did the crime, she has to do the time, and every criminal has a sob story about why they did it.

 

[cherrymeg]

She was convicted of First Degree Murder, a Class A Felony in Tennessee. The penalty for a Class A Felony in Tennessee is 60 years, minus 9 years for good behavior. That is what murderers are sentenced to in Tennessee. Her sentence has been upheld by multiple courts as Constitutional. If you think that 60 years is too much (which by the way I do), then work to convince the Tennessee legislature to reduce the penalties. But a word of warning, if you manage to convince them, it would also lower the penalties for a lot of other crimes, including many crimes toward children. Regardless everybody has to be treated equal, including this woman. She did the crime, she has to do the time.

The charges for crimes against children or rape are usually not that long. Not long enough. Wouldn't treating her like a victim of human trafficking make it more clear you can't pay fo sex with minors without the threat of a consequence?

 

[KaaBoom]

The charges for crimes against children or rape are usually not that long. Not long enough. Wouldn't treating her like a victim of human trafficking make it more clear you can't pay fo sex with minors without the threat of a consequence?

They are in Tennessee. Go ahead and lobby Tennessee to reduce the penalties, but it will reduce the penalties for other crimes as well.

And no, nothing is going to have any consequences on prostitution, adult or child. That has been going on for at least 3,000 years. If it hasn't been stopped in over 3,000 years, it's highly unlikely to be stopped in the future. All it serves to do is fill up the prisons.

Class A Felony
After crimes punishable by death or life imprisonment, class A felonies are the most serious felonies in Tennessee. They are punishable by 15 to 60 years in prison and a fine of up to $50,000.
(Tenn. Ann. Code § 40-35-111.)
For example, aggravated rape (rape that causes injury to the victim, or against a child under the age of 13, or where the defendant is armed with a weapon or aided by others) is a class A felony. (For more information on sex crimes in Tennessee and their penalties, see Tennessee Sexual Battery Laws.)

Tennessee Felony Crimes by Class and Sentences

 

[cherrymeg]

They are in Tennessee. Go ahead and lobby Tennessee to reduce the penalties, but it will reduce the penalties for other crimes as well.

And no, nothing is going to have any consequences on prostitution, adult or child. That has been going on for at least 3,000 years. If it hasn't been stopped in over 3,000 years, it's highly unlikely to be stopped in the future. All it serves to do is fill up the prisons.



Tennessee Felony Crimes by Class and Sentences

If you are looking for little girls that's an issue. If you hand money to a guy and assume the person you are having sex with will see that cash you are lying to yourself or are naive. I'm not saying stop prostitution I'm saying if you give your money to a guy named Kutthroat you aren't looking for safety.

 

[KaaBoom]

If you are looking for little girls that's an issue. If you hand money to a guy and assume the person you are having sex with will see that cash you are lying to yourself or are naive. I'm not saying stop prostitution I'm saying if you give your money to a guy named Kutthroat you aren't looking for safety.

The first step should be to legalize adult prostitution. But I'm still not sure that would stop child prostitution. I'm not sure what else these runaway teens would do. They can't legally work. Services and shelters for them are limited to non existent. If it is not prostitution, they are going to need to be involved in some other illegal activities.

 

[human]

Wow.So throwaway children get to be objects for people who want to use them.

Advertise who those men are that use prostitutes..

The people who have been sexually abused as children pr abused in other ways have no self worth. And we as a society say, “Tough luck. You should have chosen a better set of parents.”

Nasty. Vomit, Tears

 

[mickey2942]

Runaway teens are an interesting group. They can't all be lumped into "abused". And many of them, are extraordinary. They don't all turn to prostitution or drug use.

For years I worked part time at a mental health facility/residential center for teens. I saw the gamut of stories, one in particular, a young woman who was drug addicted, from an affluent family. She had numerous successful brothers and sisters. This young woman had runaway to live on the street. She stated she had been assaulted by family members, and her family denied the allegations.

This young woman had the opportunity to live in the treatment center, attend school, get clean, and she chose to leave. Walked out the door. She was dead a year later from OD. I will always remember her, she was beautiful. I didn't attend her funeral, but it always made me sad.

There are a lot of places for teens to go, and they are not horrible places. But no one is forced to stay. They make a choice.

 

[KaaBoom]

Runaway teens are an interesting group. They can't all be lumped into "abused". And many of them, are extraordinary. They don't all turn to prostitution or drug use.

For years I worked part time at a mental health facility/residential center for teens. I saw the gamut of stories, one in particular, a young woman who was drug addicted, from an affluent family. She had numerous successful brothers and sisters. This young woman had runaway to live on the street. She stated she had been assaulted by family members, and her family denied the allegations.

This young woman had the opportunity to live in the treatment center, attend school, get clean, and she chose to leave. Walked out the door. She was dead a year later from OD. I will always remember her, she was beautiful. I didn't attend her funeral, but it always made me sad.

There are a lot of places for teens to go, and they are not horrible places. But no one is forced to stay. They make a choice.

There are not a lot of places for teens to go. For example there are over 2,500 school children here in Oregon who are homeless with no shelter. No shelter, as in they are living outdoors. That's more then live in shelters. And those are mostly not runaways. There are thousands more runaways, most of whom are not even attending school. I find that to be a bigger problem, then teens turning to prostitution. That is just what they are doing to survive in this dysfunctional society of ours.

 

[mickey2942]

There are not a lot of places for teens to go. For example there are over 2,500 school children here in Oregon who are homeless with no shelter. No shelter, as in they are living outdoors. That's more then live in shelters. And those are mostly not runaways. There are thousands more runaways, most of whom are not even attending school. I find that to be a bigger problem, then teens turning to prostitution. That is just what they are doing to survive in this dysfunctional society of ours.

That is not what I have seen. And teens can actually work jobs, not prostitution.

 

[Willow Knight]

That's not how it works in the US usually. If I'm dancing topless that doesn't give someone to rob me or think they can rape me. How does that idea that sex workers deserve what happens to them not piss you off?

No, it does not give anyone the right to rob or rape another person. However how does this fit into CB's situation. She stated they did not have sex. What I'm trying to find is any information that CB was raped, forced into sex, threatened at any point. What am I missing, all I find is a 16 year old willing chose life on the streets, she then murdered a man in his sleep, then robbed him.

 

[Willow Knight]

What do you gain by seeing a woman rot in prison for something she did at 16. If she had been killed instead it would have been a rare day that someone was given as much time as she has been given.

For me society gains protection. From a dangerous person. Not only did CB rob a man after killing him in his sleep, she tried to go back into his house to rob a second time.

 

[human]

Runaway teens are an interesting group. They can't all be lumped into "abused". And many of them, are extraordinary. They don't all turn to prostitution or drug use.

For years I worked part time at a mental health facility/residential center for teens. I saw the gamut of stories, one in particular, a young woman who was drug addicted, from an affluent family. She had numerous successful brothers and sisters. This young woman had runaway to live on the street. She stated she had been assaulted by family members, and her family denied the allegations.

This young woman had the opportunity to live in the treatment center, attend school, get clean, and she chose to leave. Walked out the door. She was dead a year later from OD. I will always remember her, she was beautiful. I didn't attend her funeral, but it always made me sad.

There are a lot of places for teens to go, and they are not horrible places. But no one is forced to stay. They make a choice.

Then you can understand trauma and what it means to “ choice”. The destruction of the person.

Being wealthy means zip. Look at Edie Sedgwick.Look at that Ethan Couch, Look at the heir to the Dupont fortune that sex abused his three year old.

 

[human]

Not once have I said sex with a child is ok. What I did say was OTHER PEOPLE have been through this and don't murder. We cannot give people free passes. Where would it end?

I think that it would be great if people who have been used as objects could somehow get help to understand how they have been manipulated to believe that they are only worthy of being used.

In Minnesota there was a prostitution group that helped people but it was very hard. It was done by former prostitutes. They switched to working on stopping it, Telling men what they were actually doing.

I think it was called STOP

 

[human]

Rosario: A Minnesota woman hopes her story helps put the brakes on human trafficking – Twin Cities

 

[human]

Anti-sex trafficking messages target men ahead of Super Bowl

 

[KaaBoom]

That is not what I have seen. And teens can actually work jobs, not prostitution.

Yes they can, with parental permission. If they are a runaway, how are they going to get that?

You are not looking very hard. There are over 39,000 school children living on the streets in this country. That is from nationwide school surveys. But again that doesn't really include runaways, most of whom don't attend school.

When a runaway teen is living on the streets with no means of support, I think the possibility of them becoming a prostitute is the least of their problems. IMHO.

Number and percentage of homeless students enrolled in public elementary and secondary schools, by primary nighttime residence, selected student characteristics, and state or jurisdiction: 2014-15

 

[2manyhorses]

Wow, This case could serve as a microcosm of the dysfunction of our society. This case involves how we and if we address mental health issues. We cut budgets right and left for mental health and instead build more and more prisons which, incidentally, house a huge proportion of our mentally ill. This case involves societies completely perverse expectations of our youth. On the one hand we don't trust their ability to make the decision to drink, drive, stay out after a certain hour, etc., and yet when they do something society considers "bad" we expect those same youth to be able to make completely adult decisions. We allow men with guns, including police, to shoot unarmed people without repercussion, because those same men with guns felt threatened. But a woman, usually one having been habitually abused, very rarely is not prosecuted for killing her abuser. She is often told, "he was asleep, you could have just left". Society treats sex acts differently depending upon whether the "actor" is a man or a woman. Sex workers are arrested, yet the men paying for the sex are almost never publicized. If a woman is sexually assaulted it is highly unlikely her attacker will even be questioned.
I don't know where this woman should be right now. I have no doubt she is/was mentally ill. What I do know judging by what her adoptive mom attempted to do, is her mental illness was there from her youth. I don't know, but am skeptical as to how much effort was put in by the powers that be since private insurance dictates your mental health care. I am sure she was dangerous at that time, but I do not know why and I am not convinced prison is where she belonged.

Bottom line, this was a child. One with mental illness. Probably with many impulse control issues. Those with mental health issues often self medicate as it appears she did which exacerbates impulse control issues. Yes she made some very poor choices, but they were made with a 16 year old brain under the influence of drugs and mental health issues.
We as a society choose to throw away these children, because that is easier than looking at how they got to where they did and what could we do so another child doesn't get thrown away. Until we stop voting for less taxes and employer based healthcare we will continue to throw away our children, because it is impossible to even attempt to help them in any real way when we are unwilling to pay for it. And until we hold men responsible for killing unarmed men in the name of "I was afraid" how can we, in good conscience hold a 16 year old child accountable.
Just asking.

 

[human]

Wow, This case could serve as a microcosm of the dysfunction of our society. This case involves how we and if we address mental health issues. We cut budgets right and left for mental health and instead build more and more prisons which, incidentally, house a huge proportion of our mentally ill. This case involves societies completely perverse expectations of our youth. On the one hand we don't trust their ability to make the decision to drink, drive, stay out after a certain hour, etc., and yet when they do something society considers "bad" we expect those same youth to be able to make completely adult decisions. We allow men with guns, including police, to shoot unarmed people without repercussion, because those same men with guns felt threatened. But a woman, usually one having been habitually abused, very rarely is not prosecuted for killing her abuser. She is often told, "he was asleep, you could have just left". Society treats sex acts differently depending upon whether the "actor" is a man or a woman. Sex workers are arrested, yet the men paying for the sex are almost never publicized. If a woman is sexually assaulted it is highly unlikely her attacker will even be questioned.
I don't know where this woman should be right now. I have no doubt she is/was mentally ill. What I do know judging by what her adoptive mom attempted to do, is her mental illness was there from her youth. I don't know, but am skeptical as to how much effort was put in by the powers that be since private insurance dictates your mental health care. I am sure she was dangerous at that time, but I do not know why and I am not convinced prison is where she belonged.

Bottom line, this was a child. One with mental illness. Probably with many impulse control issues. Those with mental health issues often self medicate as it appears she did which exacerbates impulse control issues. Yes she made some very poor choices, but they were made with a 16 year old brain under the influence of drugs and mental health issues.
We as a society choose to throw away these children, because that is easier than looking at how they got to where they did and what could we do so another child doesn't get thrown away. Until we stop voting for less taxes and employer based healthcare we will continue to throw away our children, because it is impossible to even attempt to help them in any real way when we are unwilling to pay for it. And until we hold men responsible for killing unarmed men in the name of "I was afraid" how can we, in good conscience hold a 16 year old child accountable.
Just asking.

Excellent!

 

[K_Z]

Cyntoia Brown: Supporters push for clemency before Gov. Haslam leaves office
Posted: 8:54 AM, Jan 03, 2019

Cyntoia Brown: Supporters push for clemency before Haslam leaves office

Tennessee Democrats again urge Gov. Bill Haslam to grant Cyntoia Brown clemency

The outgoing governor, who leaves office Jan. 19, has not yet made a decision.

Tennessee Democrats again urge Gov. Bill Haslam to grant Cyntoia Brown clemency

I think there is a pretty good chance that Gov. Haslam has actually made his decision, and the answer is "no".

The governor's office does not comment at all on cases that do not receive clemency-- ie, they do not put out a "denied" list, only an announcement of the affirmative list of those whose cases the governor has granted pardons or clemency. IMO, we may not hear any more from the Gov's office about CB's case.

I think what is a serious problem for making the case for clemency for CB is that the parole board's recommendations, an authoritative source, were not in agreement. (That's a vastly different level of professional input than the publicity advocacy from entertainers and politicians.) The board has 6 members-- 2 recommended parole consideration (not pardon or immediate release), 2 recommended a shortened sentence, with parole consideration at a later time, and 2 recommended leaving the sentence as is. Additionally, the lead investigator of the murder of JA sent a detailed letter to the Gov urging no clemency, due to the actions of CB before and after the murder. (See link above in thread.)

The Gov has said he will consider CB's case no differently from any other, despite the celebrity involvement and heavily biased publicity about CB and her case.

Thus far, Gov Haslam has not pardoned or released anyone who has been convicted of the serious crimes that CB has-- first degree intentional/ premeditated murder. Michele Lea Martin's case is the only one even remotely comparable-- but I'd argue Martin's and Brown's cases are actually not similar at all.

Martin was convicted of 2nd degree murder in the 2001 killing of her father, who had sexually abused her for decades, and impregnated her, along with serious physical abuse of her and her mother. Martin has served nearly 20 years of her 25 year sentence. She also confessed to the crime, and led LE to the body-- vastly different from CB's behavior after murdering JA. Martin's mother and boyfriend were also charged for being accomplices.

Michelle Lea Martin's sentence of 25 years of incarceration was commuted to supervised parole, effective Dec. 20, and continuing until Dec. 31, 2020, to allow for transition-related services, according to a release issued Thursday by Haslam's office.

Prior to this action, Martin's sentence was to expire in 2025.

Martin pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in 2004 in Bledsoe County for the 2001 homicide of her father, which occurred after she confronted him regarding abuse against her mother and the severe sexual and drug abuse he committed upon Martin beginning when she was 4 years old and continuing throughout her childhood, according to the release.

Bledsoe County woman convicted of murder in 2004 granted clemency by Gov. Haslam

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting note on mental health conditions and criminal behavior. When I worked at the state prison, I met a lot of interesting women, and one young woman told me her story, she has a bi-polar disorder, often goes into manic behaviors. In prison she gets anti-psychotic medication, other psychotropic medications, and does not have manic episodes.

She has been in and out of prison for various crimes, all of which occurred when she was not taking medication. She would feel "fine", and stop taking her meds, even though her family tried to get her to take her meds.

I would hazard a guess that 85% of the women in prison have dual diagnosis, and definitely mental illness is a contributing factor to their incarceration.

I wonder if CB had been taking medication, and when she ran away from home, probably stopped taking meds....I don't know, but that could have been a contributing factor.