PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[J. J. in Phila]

wait, he made out a check for 10K in cash? that's weird considering his expenses etc. he has exhibited a reluctance to finance things so maybe it jives but hmmm. unless he didn't buy something...this is just more the same mysterious info about Ray.

first off making the check to cash indicates the payee doesn't wish to have connection to the transaction on paper.

could be he gave someone a loan

could be he paid someone to do something under the table like paint his house etc. and they don't have documentation or an account to cash a check.

could be a bought something from an independent seller on the down low.

10K cash with no payee is suss for so many reasons . also such a large amount of cash, as you say " the limit"

can they prove ray wrote this check? Do you know when it was written?

mOO

I do not know the details, except that LE was making the inquiry.

Other than being written on a Citizen's Bank account, I do not know any details.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

wait, he made out a check for 10K in cash? that's weird considering his expenses etc. he has exhibited a reluctance to finance things so maybe it jives but hmmm. unless he didn't buy something...this is just more the same mysterious info about Ray.

first off making the check to cash indicates the payee doesn't wish to have connection to the transaction on paper.

could be he gave someone a loan

could be he paid someone to do something under the table like paint his house etc. and they don't have documentation or an account to cash a check.

could be a bought something from an independent seller on the down low.

10K cash with no payee is suss for so many reasons . also such a large amount of cash, as you say " the limit"

can they prove ray wrote this check? Do you know when it was written?

mOO

I did want to note a few things:

1. We know that RFG paid for the Mini outright. This could have been a deposit if written 2004 around the purchase time.

2. We know that an HVAC dealer called the house on the morning of 4/15/05 regarding some repairs.

3. He did make gifts to his daughter. If there had been delays in checks clearing, he could have handed it to her during a visit. Even a cashier's check can take a few days.

4. He might have wanted to open an account at another local bank.

While there are reasonable explanations, it does raise a red flag.

 

[Sleuth2010]

Every time I see a red Mini Cooper I think of him.

Maybe a family member or friends / co-workers could place a memorial plaque or park bench to honor him. Obviously dearly missed and a crime that should be solved.

 

[Lebowski]

Im still hung up on the sightings from Saturday, the day AFTER he went missing. If this was foul play, where did he go Fri night and why would he be allowed to be out in public/broad daylight the next day..nor ask for help!? If it was the walk a way theory, sounds like there was a kink in the plans that set him back a day. Strange though to return to the same place...Ray had to have known he was reported missing by now and people/LE were looking for him.
I wonder how credible these sightings really were (?)

or at least the same day sightings in the antiques shop. those sightings, if legit (and i take them seriously because IIUC it's where his car was found), have always made me suspect a voluntary disappearance. or at least that he was up to something (romantic rendezvous?) that somehow went badly. the searches for how to destroy a hard drive and the discovery of the hard drive separated from the laptop add to the case, IMO.

chilling at shops could have been waiting for someone to pick him up. and hanging out with an unknown woman (if the witnesses were right that they were together) doesn't sound like someone about to commit suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

or at least the same day sightings in the antiques shop. those sightings, if legit (and i take them seriously because IIUC it's where his car was found), have always made me suspect a voluntary disappearance. or at least that he was up to something (romantic rendezvous?) that somehow went badly. the searches for how to destroy a hard drive and the discovery of the hard drive separated from the laptop add to the case, IMO.

chilling at shops could have been waiting for someone to pick him up. and hanging out with an unknown woman (if the witnesses were right that they were together) doesn't sound like someone about to commit suicide.

I think that there is about a 92% chance that one of these two things is the explanation for RFG's disappearance.

 

[InherentVice]

Yes you've certainly worked overtime here to advance that narrative. Good job.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes you've certainly worked overtime here to advance that narrative. Good job.

Well, the other real alternative is suicide. Yes, an accident is possible, but unlikely, well less than 1%.

 

[acutename]

has anyone done an aged photo so we see what he would look like in his early 80s?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

has anyone done an aged photo so we see what he would look like in his early 80s?

Not that I have seen.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe a family member or friends / co-workers could place a memorial plaque or park bench to honor him. Obviously dearly missed and a crime that should be solved.

Yes. I’ve always been impressed by the fact that many of his friends/fellow prosecutors also feel something is amiss in this investigation and that his disappearance is suspicious.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes. I’ve always been impressed by the fact that many of his friends/fellow prosecutors also feel something is amiss in this investigation and that his disappearance is suspicious.

Some of them do.

His closest friend, Sloan, thinks RFG is in Europe. Madiera, the former DA, thinks it was walk away. Another former DA , Parks Miller, said that "homicide is the least likely" possibility, though she walked that back a bit.

Now, if we had evidence that RFG got out of Lewisburg on his own, I would say "case closed."

 

[Betty P]

Some of them do.

His closest friend, Sloan, thinks RFG is in Europe. Madiera, the former DA, thinks it was walk away. Another former DA , Parks Miller, said that "homicide is the least likely" possibility, though she walked that back a bit.

Now, if we had evidence that RFG got out of Lewisburg on his own, I would say "case closed."

Gricar has been gone long enough now that “walking away” already a highly unlikely option, is no longer realistic. In all my years following cold cases and missing persons, it’s pretty rare for healthy, successful people with good interpersonal relationships to stage a complete disappearance without warning or motive.

As for fellow prosecutors, it’s possible not all were close enough friends to have a good idea of any motives Gricar might have had.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Gricar has been gone long enough now that “walking away” already a highly unlikely option, is no longer realistic. In all my years following cold cases and missing persons, it’s pretty rare for healthy, successful people with good interpersonal relationships to stage a complete disappearance without warning or motive.

As for fellow prosecutors, it’s possible not all were close enough friends to have a good idea of any motives Gricar might have had.

Why would time have any bearing on it? There are certainly financial motives. As to "warnings" we have a lot of him acting unusually in the 5-6 weeks prior to his disappearance.

The only thing that has been really affected by time is the chance of suicide, because no body has been discovered.

 

[Betty P]

Why would time have any bearing on it? There are certainly financial motives. As to "warnings" we have a lot of him acting unusually in the 5-6 weeks prior to his disappearance.

The only thing that has been really affected by time is the chance of suicide, because no body has been discovered.

IIRC, other experts have offered opinions that its increasingly difficult in today's digital world for people to change identities and remain "hidden".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

IIRC, other experts have offered opinions that its increasingly difficult in today's digital world for people to change identities and remain "hidden".

None that I am aware of. Further remember that this changeover would have occurred more than 20 years ago.

 

[Whatever2727]

Yes you've certainly worked overtime here to advance that narrative. Good job.

Too be fair J.J. has spent a tremendous amount of time reporting and researching this more than any other news entity over the course of many years and has an answer for every theory I’ve seen people propose to him.No need to accuse anyone of pushing a narrative, not everyone has to come to the same conclusion and not many people take the time to come back here and answer everyone’s questions especially 20 years after the public has long forgotten about it.

On the other side of that coin there was a lot of bad stuff going on in central PA at this time with state college and more importantly the second mile charity. Bad things involving very powerful people with unlimited resources. If anyone is going to make someone as powerful as a DA disappear and partially convince the public he just walked away from his life and child without a trace would be a group of millionaires, billionaires and future governors.

I personally don’t think he just walked away from his life. Criminals,teenagers , loners run away but not successful DAs with kids..a lot of shady things unexplained , the different women he met with never coming forward,the computer being in the river perhaps the biggest. 99 percent of the time people disappear like this they are dead or in witness protection , but that doesn’t make sense when leaving his gf and daughter behind. I don’t think we ll ever get the truth unfortunately but I’m glad people out there still care.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for emphasis.

On the other side of that coin there was a lot of bad stuff going on in central PA at this time with state college and more importantly the second mile charity. Bad things involving very powerful people with unlimited resources. If anyone is going to make someone as powerful as a DA disappear and partially convince the public he just walked away from his life and child without a trace would be a group of millionaires, billionaires and future governors.

This opens up something else. If RFG was involved in some of that, that might give him a reason to leave. Suppose that there was a payoff. That would give him a reason to vanish. That could be a possibility.

On the other hand, in the case we know that RFG knew about, the victims, Victim 6 and B.K. were alive and well in 2012. Victim 6's mother, who reported it, is alive and well; the psychologist who she reported it to is alive and well. The detective investigating the case is alive and well, and the ADA's that were involved in the case were alive and well. Finally the police report is preserved in Penn State's digital archives.

Why take out RFG and not the 6-7 people with more direct knowledge?

 

[Whatever2727]

Snipped for emphasis.




This opens up something else. If RFG was involved in some of that, that might give him a reason to leave. Suppose that there was a payoff. That would give him a reason to vanish. That could be a possibility.

On the other hand, in the case we know that RFG knew about, the victims, Victim 6 and B.K. were alive and well in 2012. Victim 6's mother, who reported it, is alive and well; the psychologist who she reported it to is alive and well. The detective investigating the case is alive and well, and the ADA's that were involved in the case were alive and well. Finally the police report is preserved in Penn State's digital archives.

Why take out RFG and not the 6-7 people with more direct knowledge?

I think there could be something to that theory and maybe not even a payoff , maybe a disappear or your love ones are in danger type thing. That’s the only thing I could see a man walking away from his family for.


I think when it comes to the second part when going up against powerful people and organizations it’s easy to discredit or shut up everyday citizens, we ve seen it with the epstein fiasco over the years / seen it with Nxivm scandal, but a DA has some power and is someone the average man and media will pay attention to if they stand up and say something.

I also don’t believe he was killed bc of Sandusky, I think JS was a monster and just the fall guy for the organization in my non expert opinion.JS was a lot more connected to second mile then Penn state football during this period of time but when you try to research it it’s all about the football program and Joe paterno and a lot of popcorn headlines . I believe that JS wasn’t the only monster in the second mile charity and also like most big charities it was probably a money laundering operation too. If Mr Gricer stumbled upon something like that and threatened to expose or didn’t want to play ball it would be a good reason to make him disappear.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think there could be something to that theory and maybe not even a payoff , maybe a disappear or your love ones are in danger type thing. That’s the only thing I could see a man walking away from his family for.


I think when it comes to the second part when going up against powerful people and organizations it’s easy to discredit or shut up everyday citizens, we ve seen it with the epstein fiasco over the years / seen it with Nxivm scandal, but a DA has some power and is someone the average man and media will pay attention to if they stand up and say something.

I also don’t believe he was killed bc of Sandusky, I think JS was a monster and just the fall guy for the organization in my non expert opinion.JS was a lot more connected to second mile then Penn state football during this period of time but when you try to research it it’s all about the football program and Joe paterno and a lot of popcorn headlines . I believe that JS wasn’t the only monster in the second mile charity and also like most big charities it was probably a money laundering operation too. If Mr Gricer stumbled upon something like that and threatened to expose or didn’t want to play ball it would be a good reason to make him disappear.

The question there is that if RFG was doing some investigation, which would have been unusual, why isn't there a record of what he was doing?

If there was information on the laptop, why wasn't it duplicated on one of his other computers, stored on a removable device or printed out and his locked office? Flash drives were available, CD-Roms and floppy discs were commonplace.

Further, the DA's Office did not have an investigator and RFG was not known to have ever investigated a case.

 

[Betty P]

I think there could be something to that theory and maybe not even a payoff , maybe a disappear or your love ones are in danger type thing. That’s the only thing I could see a man walking away from his family for.


I think when it comes to the second part when going up against powerful people and organizations it’s easy to discredit or shut up everyday citizens, we ve seen it with the epstein fiasco over the years / seen it with Nxivm scandal, but a DA has some power and is someone the average man and media will pay attention to if they stand up and say something.

I also don’t believe he was killed bc of Sandusky, I think JS was a monster and just the fall guy for the organization in my non expert opinion.JS was a lot more connected to second mile then Penn state football during this period of time but when you try to research it it’s all about the football program and Joe paterno and a lot of popcorn headlines . I believe that JS wasn’t the only monster in the second mile charity and also like most big charities it was probably a money laundering operation too. If Mr Gricer stumbled upon something like that and threatened to expose or didn’t want to play ball it would be a good reason to make him disappear.

These incidents used to seem far-fetched before the Epstein investigation finally broke wide open. Such a scenario involving the Second Mile charity is actually very likely. Powerful, wealthy people are going to do what they want to do. Things happen, people take the fall, powerful members of government and the fifth estate look the other way. It has always been suspicious that the investigation quickly ended with the discovery of the Second Mile charity link. Suddenly wrapped up in a nice, neat package and put away. JS went to jail, Paternoster lost his job, the attorney General was safely promoted to governor and it was declared that Gricar decided to stage a mysterious disappearance and leave everything behind to go live in some Eastern European country even though he was on the verge of retirement. Yeah, that’s the ticket…

JMO