AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #7

[Panda]

it's highly possible that the 'motive' makes perfect sense to Holdom... .. on the other hand, it is just as likely that he himself has no idea. Cant even explain it to himself.. ( I think this last one a remote chance, but even so, it cant be rejected )...

What stumps me, is how that point of murderous rage was got to, twice , on two different people, one an adult, one a baby, with a time lapse in between, at two different locations ( thanks to the person who reminded me of that ) .

Assuming.. (just for today) that he used some mind altering element to get to the rage enough to kill Karlie.. and to subsequently bury her. ( two different activities at two different times )

And then he has to get to that point again to murder Khandalyce... He already knows he can kill. Successfully and undetected, , it would appear, so when it comes to Khandalyce he is ahead of the game, it isn't unknown territory, it is very recent and familiar.

So he lets loose... or someone else does? someone else who , also, can achieve that particular pitch of rage right on cue.

I don't believe Karlie was actually buried. I think this is important to an extent, as it could indicate a certain psychology aspect to the crime - being left at a scene, as opposed to the offender spending time actually digging a grave to better hide the remains. Although, the offender may have intentionally left Karlie's body in a similar fashion to Milat's victims, to give pause for the police to suspect the murder was connected to Milat.

"Everything was tucked away behind a log."
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/human-sku...belanglo-says-trail-biker-20100829-13xrq.html

 

[Bohemian]

Their luck ran out when someone, some mystery person, ( I discount the 60 yr old seen wandering around Wynarka with a suitcase many years previously) decided ( for what possible reason? ) to shift that suitcase from where it had been successfully hidden for so many years, undisturbed, and place it in plain view on a well used road. . Illogical, or what? .....

there are quite a few murders in Australia, and world wide, where the murderer has been and still is extremely lucky. ... not every killing is solved... not every killing is discovered....

That's true but a double murder, this one with a child? In this day and age with IT and forensics we have? Dunno...maybe. I suppose with Missing Persons but then that's where the fraud came in. Kept them alive. Rare...

 

[Bohemian]

I still feel we need a motive.Lots of relationships break down every day but murder is an uncommon solution.

Yes ma'am. I believe we need a 'Why?' too.

 

[DutchTreat]

Excellent post and I could not agree more!
Every possible idea is worth discussing and perusing if it leads to discovering the truth.
Even seemingly silly ideas have borne fruit.
Don't forget that it was on these boards that the possibility that the child in the suitcase and the body in Belanglo might be connected was first suggested, and while some thought it was way off track and even silly, it turned out to be absolutely correct.
I believe all ideas should be encouraged; even those that seem absurd, because they leads other to think more creatively too.

I couldn't agree more. And to me, the fact that the drug debt story isn't formally denied by police is more revealing then them telling us that the story isn't true or yet unconfirmed. And I guess some people are starting to sweat and getting more and more nervous. And police are smart for not commenting on this drug debt story. I guess they're watching and waiting for the sc.mbags to crawl from underneath their stones.

I do not think that identity theft was the motive in this case. It might even have been done in order to cover up something way bigger. And I also believe that this is way bigger than DH and HP. I think this is about drugs, cars, prostitution, sexual exploitation, possibly child , possibly some pedophile ring, money and power. And God knows what else.

 

[Bohemian]

I don't believe Karlie was actually buried. I think this is important to an extent, as it could indicate a certain psychology aspect to the crime - being left at a scene, as opposed to the offender spending time actually digging a grave to better hide the remains. Although, the offender may have intentionally left Karlie's body in a similar fashion to Milat's victims, to give pause for the police to suspect the murder was connected to Milat.

"Everything was tucked away behind a log."
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/human-sku...belanglo-says-trail-biker-20100829-13xrq.html

Oh he wanted to get rid of her alright and quickly Panda. Poor Karlie was dumped at Belanglo like you'd dump a green bag. There was shame (maybe), panic and paranoia in the choice of 'hiding place' IMO.

 

[Bohemian]

precisely..... the kind of illogic that has the person currently charged with her murder to have, in his possession, the victims invalid and useless keycard, from a bank that is no longer in existence..

couldn't bear to throw it away? found a use for it, that defies my imagination, but not his? likes the colour and shape of it? likes to look at it, fondle it?

*shrug* .. illogical.

Forgot about it?

 

[sleepinoz]

I don't believe Karlie was actually buried. I think this is important to an extent, as it could indicate a certain psychology aspect to the crime - being left at a scene, as opposed to the offender spending time actually digging a grave to better hide the remains. Although, the offender may have intentionally left Karlie's body in a similar fashion to Milat's victims, to give pause for the police to suspect the murder was connected to Milat.

"Everything was tucked away behind a log."
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/human-sku...belanglo-says-trail-biker-20100829-13xrq.html

From the same article:

He said a recent fire in the area might have uncovered the remains.

It would be hard to determine how Karlie was left after a bushfire.

She could have been well covered but we can't know that for sure.
​

 

[Bohemian]

Horrific violence doesn't always equal rage or a split second event/snap moment. It can be systematic, inflicted over a long period, slow etc and linked to other base emotions.


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This is also true. Maybe 16 yo dodged a bullet, so to speak.

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes ma'am. I believe we need a 'Why?' too.

Actually - WE don't need a why, the Police do.

We need to realise we are not here to solve the crimes we are here to discuss and sleuth.

 

[DutchTreat]

One thing that strikes me about the alleged injuries is how deeply personal these crimes were. Impersonal; shoot someone, more personal and angry, stab them; deeply personal and enraged, allegedly 'stomp someone to death'.

I'll be very surprised if the alleged murderer isn't male unless; of course, the injuries were from a vehicle.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Karlie was murdered by more than one killer.
Being hunted down in the woods, being killed as an example of what happens to people who want to get out, flee, or do not listen (cooperate).

Why did she go to Canberra? If Khandalyce was not with Karlie in Canberra, what was the reason for that? Who did they stay with? Why was DH there? How did DH get there? With Karlie, or in a different way? Who else's phone was pinged in the Belanglo Forest on december 14-15th? I do NOT think they were there for some romantic holiday. I'm still not even convinced that they were romantically involved.

 

[Trooper]

That's true but a double murder, this one with a child? In this day and age with IT and forensics we have? Dunno...maybe. I suppose with Missing Persons but then that's where the fraud came in. Kept them alive. Rare...

who knows it is a double murder until years later?? who knows Karlie is Missing, in the legal sense of the word?? to her family , she is in hiding, perhaps.. she will contact them when she can, and she has, you know... She did ring and she sent texts.. ( who would have thought it was an impersonator? )... it's hard to have suspicion about someone who isn't around unless someone declares that they are officially Missing..

 

[Bohemian]

Absolutely. Using a rational mind to attempt to reconcile irrational acts is flawed. Using the "what would a reasonable human" do/act on this situation is totally useless.
You can't use your own terms of reference. You also can't ignore the "unthinkable" violence side of the equation and just focus on the more palatable threads.

This is a nightmare and monsters do walk amongst us. Hats off to LE for braving this world.


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True but I still don't want to look at why for Khandalyce. Could look at things logically but not ready emotionally.

Yes, God Bless LE.

 

[Trooper]

I don't believe Karlie was actually buried. I think this is important to an extent, as it could indicate a certain psychology aspect to the crime - being left at a scene, as opposed to the offender spending time actually digging a grave to better hide the remains. Although, the offender may have intentionally left Karlie's body in a similar fashion to Milat's victims, to give pause for the police to suspect the murder was connected to Milat.

"Everything was tucked away behind a log."
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/human-sku...belanglo-says-trail-biker-20100829-13xrq.html

maybe to Holdom, being 'tucked away behind a log' is the equivalent of burial.. if you are talking about a 6ft x 3 ft grave, with an engraved headstone, 'here lies Karlie, killed by me in a fit of fury'... well. sure. it isn't , if one has to be extremely pedantic , not a burial in the local cemetery process.. but to a murderer.. taken to a forest, deep into a forest, tucked behind a log.. well. that may be considered a terrific burial.

 

[Trooper]

Yes ma'am. I believe we need a 'Why?' too.

what point would a 'why' make? would you believe any reason given by a murderer??..

no one needs a motive.. not the police, not the state prosecutor and certainly not the jury, and I don't need one, either.. no motive that is explained to me by the killer is going to cut it, anyways.. and since the murders appear illogical, I can only presume that any motive the killer comes up with is going to be riddled with illogic of the kind that will bring tears of acid to my eye.

 

[inkpink]

Do we know if Karlie was re-listed as a missing person when the Family started the facebook page?

 

[Wolfinator]

If that was Khandalyce's fate she wouldn't have been found at all and definitely not with any personal possessions. Including them may have been of necessity but also may have been 'caring'.

I think poor little Khandalyce was killed, her remains hidden in a property where her alleged killer knew they would be safe. Somehow they became separated from them and someone else found them, suitcase and clothes close by and took them to the bush; no unnecessary contact with SAPOL.

Or simply all callously thrown away without thought.

Simply thrown away without thought? I'm predicting disposed of in a blind panic by someone who couldn't walk.


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[Trooper]

Do we know if Karlie was re-listed as a missing person when the Family started the facebook page?

no. she wasn't.... the family, I assume you mean the cousin who wrote in a fairly and rationally frame of fury to Karlie re the state of her mothers health and to contact.. it hadn't crossed anyone's mind that the contact they had formerly, was in fact, not Karlie but someone using her phone, her speech pattern, and her ( and their ) knowledge of Karlie's family dynamics and environment.

 

[Trooper]

in my wildest and most horrible imagination, I cannot conceive of what it must have been like for those family members to come to the dawning realization that the phone contacts, the texts, etc from 'Karlie' were not from Karlie, because Karlie was dead by then.

That it was from someone who , knowing Karlie was dead, proceeded with this charade. .. and they never twigged.. ..

It would destroy me to know that happened.. . I have as much desire to see this impersonator spend a lifetime behind bars for this really hateful ploy, and especially on Colleen, Karlie's mum, in the last days of her life as I have for the killer of Khandalyce. To me, these crimes are equal in their vileness.

 

[Bohemian]

Actually - WE don't need a why, the Police do.

We need to realise we are not here to solve the crimes we are here to discuss and sleuth.

For sure, sleep, you know I hold you in high regard and, yes, LE need the why but they and we know just about everything else; except where Karlie and Khandalyce were between 2006-2008. How do we do sleuth this sleep? If we don't have an idea why Karlie and Khandalyce may have been murdered where do we sleuth? What do we discuss? Basically, MSM/LE pressers have been exhausted as sources. Where do you propose we go from here?

 

[DutchTreat]

maybe to Holdom, being 'tucked away behind a log' is the equivalent of burial.. if you are talking about a 6ft x 3 ft grave, with an engraved headstone, 'here lies Karlie, killed by me in a fit of fury'... well. sure. it isn't , if one has to be extremely pedantic , not a burial in the local cemetery process.. but to a murderer.. taken to a forest, deep into a forest, tucked behind a log.. well. that may be considered a terrific burial.

Milat's victims were burried partially. So copycat whise it makes sense.